Re: boundaries and needing help

[Guest guest]

I thought the following quote was interesting:

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and HOW THINGS ARE SAID.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

I know that I am VERY sensitive to picking up on the non-verbal and often

subtle messages that are implied rather than said and I will get triggered

by this...it might just be the tone in their voice that gives the dig

away...the smirk that flits momentarily across their face..energy

vibes...how the conversation *feels*...I think most nons are very much in

tune with the unspoken as well as what is actually said

>

> --- ilene@... wrote:

> > Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> > would trigger my anger??? I

> > don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> > actions. I'm beginning to see,

> > though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> > big time - it's still the

> > central issue when my anger rises up.

>

> Exactly. It's not plain old rudeness, it's all the

> stuff behind it, ie waif mode... so if your button was

> pushed b/c of it and you said what you said b/c of it,

> you gave your power away. Someone else *made* you

> angry and you acted on it... thats what gives power

> away.

>

> Remember when I was triggered? I gave my power away...

> I became seemingly helpless to let those feelings go.

> Yuk.

>

> Then there's the boundary issue that came next. This

> experience let you know where another boundary needs

> to be set up - but again, with detachment. So for me

> and my darling little public (!)triggering experience,

> rather than having reacted upon my emotional trigger,

> I could have said things much differently. Used

> different language.

>

> It sounds bad

> > to say, but " stupidity " has

> > always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> > sense really gets to me -

> > I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

>

> I've got a thing about common sense too. After dealing

> w/BP/s my whole life and not having to anymore - I can

> see how many times my common sense was discounted.

> *Don't crap on my head and tell me it's birdpoop.*

>

> >

> > I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> > never have I run across the

> > " language issue " and how things are said.

> > If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> > please let me know!!

>

> I don't know of a book devoted solely to the language

> of detachment. But many of the books I've read do

> offer some techniques. I picked up SWOE to see what it

> had to offer and I think page 159 may have some

> answers... I believe Codependent no More also offers

> suggestions on how to do this. (Takes lots of practice

> though...)

>

> Lots a hugs,

>

> Cyndie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

See comments inserted below.

wrote:

> I know that I am VERY sensitive to picking up on the

> non-verbal and often subtle messages that are implied

> rather than said and I will get triggered by this...

Me too! I just thought it was a woman thing, or extra sensitive in-born

perceptions. I feel driven to further develop those skills too, because

they'd held me in good stead. The better I get at it, the more

protected I feel too.

> it might just be the tone in their voice that gives the

> dig away...the smirk that flits momentarily across their

> face..energy vibes...how the conversation *feels*...

And it frustrates me when someone relates an incident in a rat-a-tat

way. They just don't zing in on all the non-verbal communication, which

to me, stands out like a sore thumb, and is the true gist of the

interaction, not just the words. That's why I like to be there myself

and not have to rely on the stone wall perceptions of others.

> I think most nons are very much in tune with the

> unspoken as well as what is actually said

I think so, now that I know about BPD. Makes sense.

Best wishes,

Carol

[Guest guest]

I got this book at my sis' recommendation...it came from her

therapist (sharing resources here)...

An Adult Child's Guide to What's " Normal "   Author : Friel

there is on on Half.com for $2.00 right now.

anyway there is a short chapter called, " abuse by an eyebrow "

that talks about non verbal communication. it also has all sorts

of stuff about how we are abused, that the FOO would consider

normal daily life.

Also...the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker (i don't know if I have

that spelling right) talks a lot about the non verbal stuff.

we KO's know exactly what people are communicating to us, and

then we are told that we are crazy, sensitive, moody, PMS blah

blah blah which usually made me feel desperate.

Now I know that a member of an enmeshed group, (FOO, cult,

clique) will try to make you seem crazy when you sniff out the rot.

I think I had the instinct to love my family, and it hurt me when I

would be invalidated, however when giving advice to friends, I

was uncannily correct with my observations.

Do you KO's find it very easy to guess mysteries and

whodunnits? My kids laugh how I get the plot all the time.

The only time I've been stumped was 6th Sense.

Kathleen

>

> > I know that I am VERY sensitive to picking up on the

> > non-verbal and often subtle messages that are implied

> > rather than said and I will get triggered by this...

> Me too! I just thought it was a woman thing, or extra sensitive

in-born

> perceptions. I feel driven to further develop those skills too,

because

> they'd held me in good stead. The better I get at it, the more

> protected I feel too.

>

> > it might just be the tone in their voice that gives the

> > dig away...the smirk that flits momentarily across their

> > face..energy vibes...how the conversation *feels*...

> And it frustrates me when someone relates an incident in a

rat-a-tat

> way. They just don't zing in on all the non-verbal

communication, which

> to me, stands out like a sore thumb, and is the true gist of the

> interaction, not just the words. That's why I like to be there

myself

> and not have to rely on the stone wall perceptions of others.

>

> > I think most nons are very much in tune with the

> > unspoken as well as what is actually said

> I think so, now that I know about BPD. Makes sense.

>

> Best wishes,

> Carol

[Guest guest]

I hadn't read this yet when I posted my message about

books. I might need to go back on half.com. The

abuse by an eyebrow thing is VERY relevant for me.

JOY

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> I got this book at my sis' recommendation...it came

> from her

> therapist (sharing resources here)...

>

> An Adult Child's Guide to What's " Normal "   Author :

> Friel

>

> there is on on Half.com for $2.00 right now.

>

> anyway there is a short chapter called, " abuse by an

> eyebrow "

> that talks about non verbal communication. it also

> has all sorts

> of stuff about how we are abused, that the FOO would

> consider

> normal daily life.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I thought I was insensitive to body language and tone but it's

just the opposite. I seem insensitive because I was trained to

not react to much of anything. Reacting made it worse.

Cyndy

--- wrote:

> I thought the following quote was interesting:

> > I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> > never have I run across the

> > " language issue " and HOW THINGS ARE SAID.

> > If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> > please let me know!!

>

> I know that I am VERY sensitive to picking up on the

> non-verbal and often

> subtle messages that are implied rather than said and I will

> get triggered

> by this...it might just be the tone in their voice that gives

> the dig

> away...the smirk that flits momentarily across their

> face..energy

> vibes...how the conversation *feels*...I think most nons are

> very much in

> tune with the unspoken as well as what is actually said

>

> >

> > --- ilene@... wrote:

> > > Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> > > would trigger my anger??? I

> > > don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> > > actions. I'm beginning to see,

> > > though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> > > big time - it's still the

> > > central issue when my anger rises up.

> >

> > Exactly. It's not plain old rudeness, it's all the

> > stuff behind it, ie waif mode... so if your button was

> > pushed b/c of it and you said what you said b/c of it,

> > you gave your power away. Someone else *made* you

> > angry and you acted on it... thats what gives power

> > away.

> >

> > Remember when I was triggered? I gave my power away...

> > I became seemingly helpless to let those feelings go.

> > Yuk.

> >

> > Then there's the boundary issue that came next. This

> > experience let you know where another boundary needs

> > to be set up - but again, with detachment. So for me

> > and my darling little public (!)triggering experience,

> > rather than having reacted upon my emotional trigger,

> > I could have said things much differently. Used

> > different language.

> >

> > It sounds bad

> > > to say, but " stupidity " has

> > > always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> > > sense really gets to me -

> > > I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

> >

> > I've got a thing about common sense too. After dealing

> > w/BP/s my whole life and not having to anymore - I can

> > see how many times my common sense was discounted.

> > *Don't crap on my head and tell me it's birdpoop.*

> >

> > >

> > > I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> > > never have I run across the

> > > " language issue " and how things are said.

> > > If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> > > please let me know!!

> >

> > I don't know of a book devoted solely to the language

> > of detachment. But many of the books I've read do

> > offer some techniques. I picked up SWOE to see what it

> > had to offer and I think page 159 may have some

> > answers... I believe Codependent no More also offers

> > suggestions on how to do this. (Takes lots of practice

> > though...)

> >

> > Lots a hugs,

> >

> > Cyndie

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Cyndy,

Your post struck a cord with me. For many years I did not purposely

pay detailed attention to a person's actions, tone, etc. while they

were talking to me or to others in my presence. Why? For a long

time I thought that this was so I would not act disrespectfully

towards them; i.e., I would act in such a manner so as to respect

their privacy. Your post made me revisit this thought. Maybe, I had

developed this attitude in order to protect myself (when a very young

child) so as to have the idea that my parents were " good " when the

reality of looking at the whole of their communication would lead me

to conclude otherwise. It really is a good example of how as

children we learn how to protect ourselves when those who gave us

life do not know enough to give us that protection fully (i.e., in

most ways and at most times which " good enough " parents can

provide). That I did not as an adult change that strategy is

indicative of the power of " defense mechanisms " (conditioning, brain-

washing, or habits are other terms frequently used). Many thanks for

your post for reminding me of life depth. M. R.

> I thought I was insensitive to body language and tone but it's

> just the opposite. I seem insensitive because I was trained to

> not react to much of anything. Reacting made it worse.

> Cyndy

>

>