RE: Non physician can own the practice

[Guest guest]

Be

cautious. It may be a wonderful opportunity, but it comes with baggage. How large

is the facility? How many patients? How is it set up? Are you responsible for

all the staff and how many staff members are there? The problem is that the

vast majority of practices out there are not set up in

the low overhead style and therefore may force you to jump on the treadmill of

churning patients much faster than you want to go. This leads to burnout and

poor quality. On the other hand, if the facility is somewhat small and the

staff is minimal, it may be a wonderful opportunity for you to walk into a

practice without having to ramp up over the course of months to years. As for

the legalities of it, you need to contact an attorney to see what is allowed in

the state. Either way, good luck!!

Non physician can own the practice

Have a quick question, I am off cycled and won't graduate until Dec

31st 2007, I saw a practice for sale (solo practice) in Pennsylvania

and really interested to buy the practice but unfortunately the bank

approved with a contingency that the loan will not be funded until I

complete my residency. Is it possible to own the practice by my

husband who is not a physician and hire a locum physician for 6 months

or so until i graduate. If the law says that a NON physician can own

the practice and hire a physician for short term then I can take that

information and discuss with the Bank. Please have your comments on

this. We were not yet decided whether to buy an existing one (or) open

a new one. still debating..but meanwhile I would like to find out

about this information...

[Guest guest]

yes, the practice is in a small community and owns by the existing physician since 40+ years and retiring. The existing physician is working for 20-25 hrs per week and achieving a very good numbers with a very low overheads. we have an opportunity to take over this practice and introduce the EMR, computerized scheduling..etc..that changes the entire manual practice model to the new IMP model.

Instead of spending money with the attorneys during investigation time can I find the information in any website or any other places whether a non physician forming a LLP (or) PC with a physician as a member can buy an existing practice or not?

thanks a lot. On 5/3/07, Brady, MD <drbrady@...

> wrote:

Be

cautious. It may be a wonderful opportunity, but it comes with baggage. How large

is the facility? How many patients? How is it set up? Are you responsible for

all the staff and how many staff members are there? The problem is that the

vast majority of practices out there are not set up in

the low overhead style and therefore may force you to jump on the treadmill of

churning patients much faster than you want to go. This leads to burnout and

poor quality. On the other hand, if the facility is somewhat small and the

staff is minimal, it may be a wonderful opportunity for you to walk into a

practice without having to ramp up over the course of months to years. As for

the legalities of it, you need to contact an attorney to see what is allowed in

the state. Either way, good luck!!

Non physician can own the practice

Have a quick question, I am off cycled and won't graduate until Dec

31st 2007, I saw a practice for sale (solo practice) in Pennsylvania

and really interested to buy the practice but unfortunately the bank

approved with a contingency that the loan will not be funded until I

complete my residency. Is it possible to own the practice by my

husband who is not a physician and hire a locum physician for 6 months

or so until i graduate. If the law says that a NON physician can own

the practice and hire a physician for short term then I can take that

information and discuss with the Bank. Please have your comments on

this. We were not yet decided whether to buy an existing one (or) open

a new one. still debating..but meanwhile I would like to find out

about this information...

[Guest guest]

While recognizing

that state laws vary wildly, I can say that in KY, non physicians CAN and do

own medical practices and employ the physicians. I have known of nurse practitioners who

own home health operations and run nursing homes and hire doctors to “supervise”

them. I have also heard of at least

one outpatient primary care clinic owned and run by PAs, and another by NPs,

who hire doctors to “review” their medical care. My observation has been that the docs

tend to get ripped off in this scenario, mostly due to ignorance of the financial

side of the business, but that doesn’t stop it from happening.

Annie

Non physician can own the practice

Have a quick question, I am off cycled and won't

graduate until Dec

31st 2007, I saw a practice for sale (solo practice) in Pennsylvania

and really interested to buy the practice but unfortunately the bank

approved with a contingency that the loan will not be funded until I

complete my residency. Is it possible to own the practice by my

husband who is not a physician and hire a locum physician for 6 months

or so until i graduate. If the law says that a NON physician can own

the practice and hire a physician for short term then I can take that

information and discuss with the Bank. Please have your comments on

this. We were not yet decided whether to buy an existing one (or) open

a new one. still debating..but meanwhile I would like to find out

about this information...

[Guest guest]

I believe this is state law. In NJ, only

a physician can be a partner in an LLC that is a medical practice. You need a

lawyer or at least an accountant with knowledge in this area. You can try

using an online legal source or software but ….. you don’t want to

do it wrong.

Kathy Saradarian, MD

Branchville, NJ

Solo low-staff practice since

4/03

In practice since 9/90

Practice Partner User since 5/03

[Guest guest]

Why don't you call the Secretary of State from your state ? Also, you might get some free information from the local Chamber of Commerce. Another source could be the local hospital.yes, the practice is in a small community and owns by the existing physician since 40+ years and retiring. The existing physician is working for 20-25 hrs per week and achieving a very good numbers with a very low overheads. we have an opportunity to take over this practice and introduce the EMR, computerized scheduling..etc..that changes the entire manual practice model to the new IMP model. Instead of spending money with the attorneys during investigation time can I find the information in any website or any other places whether a non physician forming a LLP (or) PC with a physician as a member can buy an existing practice or not? thanks a lot. On 5/3/07, Brady, MD <drbradythevillagedoctor (DOT) hrcoxmail.com > wrote:Be cautious. It may be a wonderful opportunity, but it comes with baggage. How large is the facility? How many patients? How is it set up? Are you responsible for all the staff and how many staff members are there? The problem is that the vastmajority of practices out there are not set up in the low overhead style and therefore may force you to jump on the treadmill of churning patients much faster than you want to go. This leads to burnout and poor quality. On the other hand, if the facility is somewhat small and the staff is minimal, it may be a wonderful opportunity for you to walk into a practice without having to ramp up over the course of months to years. As for the legalities of it, you need to contact an attorney to see what is allowed in the state. Either way, good luck!! -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sreeamitaSent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:03 PMTo: Subject: Non physician can own the practice Have a quick question, I am off cycled and won't graduate until Dec31st 2007, I saw a practice for sale (solo practice) in Pennsylvaniaand really interested to buy the practice but unfortunately the bankapproved with a contingency that the loan will not be funded until Icomplete my residency. Is it possible to own the practice by myhusband who is not a physician and hire a locum physician for 6 monthsor so until i graduate. If the law says that a NON physician can ownthe practice and hire a physician for short term then I can take thatinformation and discuss with the Bank. Please have your comments onthis. We were not yet decided whether to buy an existing one (or) opena new one. still debating..but meanwhile I would like to find outabout this information...

[Guest guest]

I think you may be confusing two separate issues. - funding for the loan to purchase vs. physician ownership.

1) Most third year residents are already licensed physicians. So why couldn't you already "own" a practice. Granted your residency director may not be happy with this scenario and most hospitals would not give you privileges. But I believe you can file for a medicare number without specialty certification.

2) The bank is saying they will not give you a loan until you have completed your residency. This is understandable. Is there not a way to defer payment to the current owner until you graduate?

But I see a scenario if the practice is the right one for you whereby:

a) Doc (wife) owns practice

Husband manages practice

c) You convince current MD to stay around part time until you graduate or hire him part time for the next 6 months. Maybe you can meet patients in the evenings or weekends at "open houses" or just be present in office to introduce yourself on his busiest days. Or maybe you ask your director to allow you to do an "elective" for a month in the office.

My 0.02 $

Mike SafranSee what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

RE Buying existing practice of doc in "small town low overhead."

1) You need lawyer to evaluate legal status of practice as well as exit strategy of doc owner leaving.

2) Pt loyalty is often fickle -- stats I've seen show that only 40% pts transfer to new MD. Best to have old doc stay at least 6 months and ease in new doc.

3) The practice pts may NOT stay so what would it benefit you to buy the practice?

Pa is in state of flux -- mid-levels just got the go-ahead from the State to practice almost independently, with doc review only every 10 business days, not on site. Big issues here

Am a Pa doc myself -- talk more off list?

Dr Matt LevinFamily MedicinePittsburgh PaDr_Levin@... Office Fax.

More about me--Using SOAPware since 1997Solo Practice started Dec 1st 2004 in Greensburg PA, east of PittsburghPart-time practice management and technology consultant

Re: Non physician can own the practice

yes, the practice is in a small community and owns by the existing physician since 40+ years and retiring. The existing physician is working for 20-25 hrs per week and achieving a very good numbers with a very low overheads. we have an opportunity to take over this practice and introduce the EMR, computerized scheduling..etc..that changes the entire manual practice model to the new IMP model. Instead of spending money with the attorneys during investigation time can I find the information in any website or any other places whether a non physician forming a LLP (or) PC with a physician as a member can buy an existing practice or not? thanks a lot.

On 5/3/07, Brady, MD <drbradythevillagedoctor (DOT) hrcoxmail.com > wrote:

Be cautious. It may be a wonderful opportunity, but it comes with baggage. How large is the facility? How many patients? How is it set up? Are you responsible for all the staff and how many staff members are there? The problem is that the vast majority of practices out there are not set up in the low overhead style and therefore may force you to jump on the treadmill of churning patients much faster than you want to go. This leads to burnout and poor quality. On the other hand, if the facility is somewhat small and the staff is minimal, it may be a wonderful opportunity for you to walk into a practice without having to ramp up over the course of months to years. As for the legalities of it, you need to contact an attorney to see what is allowed in the state. Either way, good luck!!

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sreeamitaSent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:03 PMTo: Subject: Non physician can own the practice

Have a quick question, I am off cycled and won't graduate until Dec31st 2007, I saw a practice for sale (solo practice) in Pennsylvaniaand really interested to buy the practice but unfortunately the bankapproved with a contingency that the loan will not be funded until Icomplete my residency. Is it possible to own the practice by myhusband who is not a physician and hire a locum physician for 6 monthsor so until i graduate. If the law says that a NON physician can ownthe practice and hire a physician for short term then I can take thatinformation and discuss with the Bank. Please have your comments onthis. We were not yet decided whether to buy an existing one (or) opena new one. still debating..but meanwhile I would like to find outabout this information...

[Guest guest]

Wow those are wonderful idea(s). thanks a lot.I tried to convince the existing physician and she agreed to stay until end of August meanwhile we will find a part time physician who can work until Dec but we have to close the deal by end of June 2007. I mean we have to close the deal (buy the practice) and transfer on to our LLP/PC name. during these 6 months if we able to take home 20-25% of the gross that's fine....right now the existing physician is taking home before taxes almost 70-75% of gross (25-30% overheads, I guess its a little high but can easily cut down.)

my husband will manage and I can spend weekend and any other evening hours at the practice.

But Now the question is closing the deal before June thru a bank is very difficult. If I can be able to provide any legal information that says " a Non physician can own the practice and hire a physician " then its a done deal with us.

I researched state website and sent few emails to the concern people..hopefully someone will answer.if not, no choice of hiring an attorney.Thanks a lot.

On 5/4/07, Mike113593@... <

Mike113593@...> wrote:

I think you may be confusing two separate issues. - funding for the loan to purchase vs. physician ownership.

1) Most third year residents are already licensed physicians. So why couldn't you already " own " a practice. Granted your residency director may not be happy with this scenario and most hospitals would not give you privileges. But I believe you can file for a medicare number without specialty certification.

2) The bank is saying they will not give you a loan until you have completed your residency. This is understandable. Is there not a way to defer payment to the current owner until you graduate?

But I see a scenario if the practice is the right one for you whereby:

a) Doc (wife) owns practice

Husband manages practice

c) You convince current MD to stay around part time until you graduate or hire him part time for the next 6 months. Maybe you can meet patients in the evenings or weekends at " open houses " or just be present in office to introduce yourself on his busiest days. Or maybe you ask your director to allow you to do an " elective " for a month in the office.

My 0.02 $

Mike Safran

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Matt that you have to have due diligence and you should ask a trusted experienced primary care doctor in your community to review the numbers with you.

I was just commenting on the legality issues. A 3rd year resident is a physician and should be able to own a practice. Paying for it is another story.

MikeSee what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Taking home over 60% of gross would be high.

I'm sorry, but I'm suspicious. You need a financial independent appraisal of income streams. 70% take home is way way too high!

Dr Matt LevinFamily MedicinePittsburgh PaDr_Levin@... Office Fax.

More about me--Using SOAPware since 1997Solo Practice started Dec 1st 2004 in Greensburg PA, east of PittsburghPart-time practice management and technology consultant

Re: Re: Non physician can own the practice

Wow those are wonderful idea(s). thanks a lot.I tried to convince the existing physician and she agreed to stay until end of August meanwhile we will find a part time physician who can work until Dec but we have to close the deal by end of June 2007. I mean we have to close the deal (buy the practice) and transfer on to our LLP/PC name. during these 6 months if we able to take home 20-25% of the gross that's fine....right now the existing physician is taking home before taxes almost 70-75% of gross (25-30% overheads, I guess its a little high but can easily cut down.) my husband will manage and I can spend weekend and any other evening hours at the practice. But Now the question is closing the deal before June thru a bank is very difficult. If I can be able to provide any legal information that says "a Non physician can own the practice and hire a physician" then its a done deal with us. I researched state website and sent few emails to the concern people..hopefully someone will answer.if not, no choice of hiring an attorney.Thanks a lot.

On 5/4/07, Mike113593aol < Mike113593aol> wrote:

I think you may be confusing two separate issues. - funding for the loan to purchase vs. physician ownership.

1) Most third year residents are already licensed physicians. So why couldn't you already "own" a practice. Granted your residency director may not be happy with this scenario and most hospitals would not give you privileges. But I believe you can file for a medicare number without specialty certification.

2) The bank is saying they will not give you a loan until you have completed your residency. This is understandable. Is there not a way to defer payment to the current owner until you graduate?

But I see a scenario if the practice is the right one for you whereby:

a) Doc (wife) owns practice

Husband manages practice

c) You convince current MD to stay around part time until you graduate or hire him part time for the next 6 months. Maybe you can meet patients in the evenings or weekends at "open houses" or just be present in office to introduce yourself on his busiest days. Or maybe you ask your director to allow you to do an "elective" for a month in the office.

My 0.02 $

Mike Safran

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

try to involve a lawyer for all business undertakings.

even if you have to pay some ridiculous amount of $5000 for 2 hours

of consultation, it will be worthwhile to spend rather than undo

your whole lifetime's savings, or credit score or spend for another

team of lawyers down the road if there is a misunderstanding. have

someone read your contract a health care or contract attorney. all

attorneys fees are tax deductible anyway.

trust no one unfortunately...

no puns intended however you should not trust anyone with your kids'

future or your own retirement.

much like you dont trust a lawyer to prescribe you heart meds, you

should not trust yourself to read a contract. people purposely make

it confusing or vague so that there would be room to argue on it

later on...

check state laws for nonphysician owning a medical practice too.

good luck. my biggest mistake was not consulting a lawyer about my

contract and i was almost run to the ground, thank goodness i had a

few tricks up my sleeve

grace

>

> I think you may be confusing two separate issues. - funding

for the loan to purchase vs. physician ownership.

>

> 1) Most third year residents are already licensed physicians.

So why couldn't you already " own " a practice. Granted your

residency director may not be happy with this scenario and most

hospitals would not give you privileges. But I believe you can file

for a medicare number without specialty certification.

>

> 2) The bank is saying they will not give you a loan until you

have completed your residency. This is understandable. Is there

not a way to defer payment to the current owner until you graduate?

>

> But I see a scenario if the practice is the right one for you

whereby:

> a) Doc (wife) owns practice

> Husband manages practice

> c) You convince current MD to stay around part time until you

graduate or hire him part time for the next 6 months. Maybe you can

meet patients in the evenings or weekends at " open houses " or just

be present in office to introduce yourself on his busiest days. Or

maybe you ask your director to allow you to do an " elective " for a

month in the office.

>

> My 0.02 $

> Mike Safran

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

---------

> See what's free at AOL.com.

>