Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Yes there is interest -- post as much info as you can! This is information we need to know about! Thank you so much for making the time to post all that you have! If my son's name ever comes up on either HCS or CLASS - I need to know these things! Thank you! Post on my friend! Sincerely, Guppy mmoyer wrote: I want you all to know that CLASS is not supposed to be a program for those with autism. HCS is supposed to be the program in which those with autism can be a part of. Also, CLASS doesn't offer the support that HCS offers. Many in CLASS are like physically involved and need an assistant to help them get dressed or lifted from a chair or bed, fed, and ready for the transportation to work or other program. Some with autism get in. I don't know how but they do. CLASS does offer job coaching that many need but for those wanting good housing support possibilities HCS isn't there unless you want foster homes, group homes or want to foster your individual yourself. .. HCS allows $3600 a year for job coaching. The agency my son is in has steadfastly denied my son access to this money because it is such a small amount and my son COULD work! On HCS and what it offers for housing: My son had problems with group homes because of the lack of structure and the same thing for foster homes where families dealt with relatives and family and often left the individual to his or her own devices. Most people when offered a choice who have someone with autism often choose HCS for the support it gives. However, then many who get HCS complain about the lack of support they find. The states offering a waiver for adults often offer such things as support for the person who needs fulltime job coaching and fulltime support. Sometimes therapies are better addressed. You cant get hippo therapy with HCS, for example. You can't get music therapy. You can't get ABA help unless it is from a psychologist that HCS allows. A few HCS agencies put out their own extra bucks and offer some of the things you would want but these are hard to find from what I have discovered. I will give more info later if there is interest. Martha ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 So my daughter, who is 7, and will be near the top of the HCS list in about 3-4 (okay, more like 5 or 6) years will receive... what? Sounds like nothing! She certainly won't need job training. mmoyer wrote: I want you all to know that CLASS is not supposed to be a program for those with autism. HCS is supposed to be the program in which those with autism can be a part of. Also, CLASS doesn't offer the support that HCS offers. Many in CLASS are like physically involved and need an assistant to help them get dressed or lifted from a chair or bed, fed, and ready for the transportation to work or other program. Some with autism get in. I don't know how but they do. CLASS does offer job coaching that many need but for those wanting good housing support possibilities HCS isn't there unless you want foster homes, group homes or want to foster your individual yourself. .. HCS allows $3600 a year for job coaching. The agency my son is in has steadfastly denied my son access to this money because it is such a small amount and my son COULD work! On HCS and what it offers for housing: My son had problems with group homes because of the lack of structure and the same thing for foster homes where families dealt with relatives and family and often left the individual to his or her own devices. Most people when offered a choice who have someone with autism often choose HCS for the support it gives. However, then many who get HCS complain about the lack of support they find. The states offering a waiver for adults often offer such things as support for the person who needs fulltime job coaching and fulltime support. Sometimes therapies are better addressed. You cant get hippo therapy with HCS, for example. You can't get music therapy. You can't get ABA help unless it is from a psychologist that HCS allows. A few HCS agencies put out their own extra bucks and offer some of the things you would want but these are hard to find from what I have discovered. I will give more info later if there is interest. Martha ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 nna, What agency does your children's case manager work with? I just faxed in the paperwork listing R & L Group as the chosen case management provider and was completely surprised to get a call from them this morning to set up an appointment. The representative I talked to was extremely helpful in answering questions and providing info about the types of services they offer. Compared to my previous experience working with government agencies, I thought this was pretty amazing. Of course, setting up an appointment and actually getting the services are two different things. My understanding of CLASS is that it is a program intended to provide services that will help a disabled person live in the community rather than having to pay for the more expensive, residential option. Since my son is higher functioning and at least minimally employable and self-sufficient at this point, he does seem to fit CLASS better than HCS. With this in mind, I thought I'd stay focused on things that would allow my son to possibly live on his own, get and keep a job as he transitions into adulthood, hopefully saving the system money further down the road. My mind was going towards building life/independence skills through occupational therapy (motor issues making self-help skills hard), speech/communication pragmatics and general life skills training involving perspective taking/reading non-verbal social cues and generally understanding the non-logical part of the world. Is this the wrong direction for this program? Can you give me some tips for navigating the system? Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 You have to look at what the program was designed to do before deciding which one to choose, depending on what you qualify for. CLASS is a program developed for people with developmental disabilities who do NOT have the label of mentally retarded, i.e. have an IQ above 70. It was designed for people who can live in the community, but need some assistance throughout the day. HCS is a program developed for people with mental retardation. That means, to qualify, the person must have an IQ of 70 or below. If the person has autism, then they can have an IQ of 75 or below. No exceptions. So, if you have a child who tests above 75 IQ, they will not qualify for HCS. Most kids with Aspberger's will fall into that range. It was designed for people who were going to be in a residential placement of some sort, thus the higher caps. There is another program called MDCP, Medially Dependent Children's Program, which is supposed to be a program for children who are dependent on some kind of medical equipment (or medication) in order to continue living. I was trained that THIS was the only program for which people with only a diagnosis of autism shouldn't be able to qualify for. If the person with autism also has a seizure disorder, then they would qualify under that. However, that said, I have heard from different folks that the qualifying nurses seem to have a bit of discretion in what and how they qualify people. I know of a person who had two children qualify under MDCP even though they don't have a seizure disorder. None of these programs were designed with the needs of a person with autism in mind--a point I brought up a few months ago to a staffer in Sen. Zaffirini's office. Sen. Zaffirini works quite a bit in this area, the staffer suggested that the senator would be VERY interested in hearing what changes need to be made to the waivers to make them more helpful and supportive of person's with autism. I STRONGLY encourage all of you who are beginning the process of working with the waivers, keep an eye out for positive suggestions that can be made to make the program easier to navigate and more helpful to the autism population and SEND THIS TO SENATOR ZAFFIRINI'S OFFICE!!!!!!!!! She's interested, and she's listening. S. About CLASS I want you all to know that CLASS is not supposed to be a program for those with autism. HCS is supposed to be the program in which those with autism can be a part of. Also, CLASS doesn't offer the support that HCS offers. Many in CLASS are like physically involved and need an assistant to help them get dressed or lifted from a chair or bed, fed, and ready for the transportation to work or other program. Some with autism get in. I don't know how but they do. CLASS does offer job coaching that many need but for those wanting good housing support possibilities HCS isn't there unless you want foster homes, group homes or want to foster your individual yourself. .. HCS allows $3600 a year for job coaching. The agency my son is in has steadfastly denied my son access to this money because it is such a small amount and my son COULD work! On HCS and what it offers for housing: My son had problems with group homes because of the lack of structure and the same thing for foster homes where families dealt with relatives and family and often left the individual to his or her own devices. Most people when offered a choice who have someone with autism often choose HCS for the support it gives. However, then many who get HCS complain about the lack of support they find. The states offering a waiver for adults often offer such things as support for the person who needs fulltime job coaching and fulltime support. Sometimes therapies are better addressed. You cant get hippo therapy with HCS, for example. You can't get music therapy. You can't get ABA help unless it is from a psychologist that HCS allows. A few HCS agencies put out their own extra bucks and offer some of the things you would want but these are hard to find from what I have discovered. I will give more info later if there is interest. Martha ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Thanks so much for the great information and explanation of these services. Valarie Singleton wrote: You have to look at what the program was designed to do before deciding which one to choose, depending on what you qualify for. CLASS is a program developed for people with developmental disabilities who do NOT have the label of mentally retarded, i.e. have an IQ above 70. It was designed for people who can live in the community, but need some assistance throughout the day. HCS is a program developed for people with mental retardation. That means, to qualify, the person must have an IQ of 70 or below. If the person has autism, then they can have an IQ of 75 or below. No exceptions. So, if you have a child who tests above 75 IQ, they will not qualify for HCS. Most kids with Aspberger's will fall into that range. It was designed for people who were going to be in a residential placement of some sort, thus the higher caps. There is another program called MDCP, Medially Dependent Children's Program, which is supposed to be a program for children who are dependent on some kind of medical equipment (or medication) in order to continue living. I was trained that THIS was the only program for which people with only a diagnosis of autism shouldn't be able to qualify for. If the person with autism also has a seizure disorder, then they would qualify under that. However, that said, I have heard from different folks that the qualifying nurses seem to have a bit of discretion in what and how they qualify people. I know of a person who had two children qualify under MDCP even though they don't have a seizure disorder. None of these programs were designed with the needs of a person with autism in mind--a point I brought up a few months ago to a staffer in Sen. Zaffirini's office. Sen. Zaffirini works quite a bit in this area, the staffer suggested that the senator would be VERY interested in hearing what changes need to be made to the waivers to make them more helpful and supportive of person's with autism. I STRONGLY encourage all of you who are beginning the process of working with the waivers, keep an eye out for positive suggestions that can be made to make the program easier to navigate and more helpful to the autism population and SEND THIS TO SENATOR ZAFFIRINI'S OFFICE!!!!!!!!! She's interested, and she's listening. S. About CLASS I want you all to know that CLASS is not supposed to be a program for those with autism. HCS is supposed to be the program in which those with autism can be a part of. Also, CLASS doesn't offer the support that HCS offers. Many in CLASS are like physically involved and need an assistant to help them get dressed or lifted from a chair or bed, fed, and ready for the transportation to work or other program. Some with autism get in. I don't know how but they do. CLASS does offer job coaching that many need but for those wanting good housing support possibilities HCS isn't there unless you want foster homes, group homes or want to foster your individual yourself. .. HCS allows $3600 a year for job coaching. The agency my son is in has steadfastly denied my son access to this money because it is such a small amount and my son COULD work! On HCS and what it offers for housing: My son had problems with group homes because of the lack of structure and the same thing for foster homes where families dealt with relatives and family and often left the individual to his or her own devices. Most people when offered a choice who have someone with autism often choose HCS for the support it gives. However, then many who get HCS complain about the lack of support they find. The states offering a waiver for adults often offer such things as support for the person who needs fulltime job coaching and fulltime support. Sometimes therapies are better addressed. You cant get hippo therapy with HCS, for example. You can't get music therapy. You can't get ABA help unless it is from a psychologist that HCS allows. A few HCS agencies put out their own extra bucks and offer some of the things you would want but these are hard to find from what I have discovered. I will give more info later if there is interest. Martha ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.4/255 - Release Date: 2/9/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Martha Moyer said " I want you all to know that CLASS is not supposed to be a program for those with autism. HCS is supposed to be the program in which those with autism can be a part of. Also, CLASS doesn't offer the support that HCS offers. Many in CLASS are like physically involved and need an assistant to help them get dressed or lifted from a chair or bed, fed, and ready for the transportation to work or other program. Some with autism get in. I don't know how but they do. " ________________________________________________________________________ Here is what I know about CLASS vs HCS in regard to what Martha brought up. She is exactly correct. To qualify for HCS, you must either have a diagnosis of mental retardation OR a diagnosis of autism or PDD-NOS and an IQ NO HIGHER than 75. Therefore, if any individual has a diagnosis of autism and isn't MR or really close to it on an IQ test (the only test they count...they don't count functional skills!), then they CANNOT qualify for HCS. I know this because both of my children came up on the HCS waiting list much sooner than they came up on the CLASS waiting list and they were both DENIED services through HCS because they didn't have autism AND mental retardation (and both had IQ's higher than 75). They just have autism. According to FUNCTIONAL SKILLS testing, my daughter does score in the MR range, but they won't use those tests...it's IQ test only. So, we had to wait another 2 or 3 years for CLASS. Martha is again correct when she says that the CLASS waiver is designed for people with PHYSICAL disabilities. So, the CLASS providers and case managers and program coordinators don't understand the need for " habilitation " services vs. " rehabilitation " services (teaching someone to do things for themselves vs. having someone do it for them), social skills training, long-term therapies such as recreation therapy and massage therapy for stress and anxiety, ongoing psychologist visits to work on behavior issues and applied behavior analysis techniques, etc. They are into " attendant " care (as in a babysitter to make sure someone with a physical disability can get to the kitchen to make lunch) instead of taking someone into the kitchen and TEACHING them how to make lunch for themselves. They also don't understand some of the home modifications and assistive devices our population needs (software for picture schedules, a fence around the yard for a runner, etc.) because they are used to paying for wheelchairs and ramps. I have a friend who fought with CLASS for over a YEAR to get them to pay for a fence around her back yard because her daughter was a runner and they lived close to a freeway...even though CLASS is SUPPOSED to pay for home modifications and accommodations! Individuals who have a primary diagnosis OTHER THAN MENTAL RETARDATION can qualify for CLASS. So, anyone with autism can qualify for class so long as MR is not their PRIMARY diagnosis. (I know many individuals with autism and MR who are on CLASS, but because autism is the primary diagnosis and MR is only a secondary diagnosis, they still qualify for CLASS.) However, remember the previous list discussion about how CLASS is not available in every county. HCS may have services that are more appropriate for the population of people with autism, but if you don't have MR, you aren't going to qualify for HCS. CLASS has more funds available, but their services are often not appropriate for individuals with autism. Plus, I have found it REALLY difficult to get through the " gatekeeper " (case manager) to actually access the money as well as get it to pay for what my children actually need, not what they typically offer. (I've been waiting for Boardmaker software for over 4 months now, and it took 9 months to get visits to a psychologist approved for working on anger management skills!) Just a clarification... nna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 In a message dated 2/15/2006 11:45:11 PM Central Standard Time, mbond@... writes: <<you may need to consider early going with the VFI system where you choose and train your own people.>> How would I go about doing this? Is there some special paperwork? Do I just ask to " go with the VFI system " ? << So far, that has worked signficantly better than letting the direct service agency send their people to work. (CLASS, through the VFI system, allows me to pay my habilitators $10.04 per hour...the agency personnel only make about $7, so you can imagine the quality of what they provide...you get what you pay for!>> So, for example, if they determine that a person needs occupational therapy, they send their people to your home instead of going through a local OT? Without the equipment, it seems pretty ineffective. Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Gaylen, My children use Easter Seals as their case manager and DSSW (Disability Services of the Southwest) as their direct service agency. However, I decided pretty quickly that DSSW had no one trained to work with individuals with autism. so I changed to the VFI/CDS system where you find and hire and train your own people...I figured I might at least be able to train SOMEONE how to work with my kids. DSSW sent over a different person every day, so I couldn't even train them. I was lucky if they just showed up! The VFI/CDS agency I use is In Home Attendant Services out of Houston. They have been very easy to work with regarding all the paperwork. It is the case management and direct service agencies that have been the problem! Your understanding of the purpose of CLASS is correct, Gaylen. The problem is that they have never taken into account the disability of AUTISM, and how one would support those individuals to do the things you mentioned. The program was designed to do those things for people with PHYSICAL DISABILITIES. Personally, I think one of the things that would be a huge improvement is a medicaid waiver program SPECIFICALLY for autism spectrum disorders. I believe that our community has needs that are so unique to our population that neither of the waiver programs can meet the needs of the entire spectrum well. Therefore, we should just have an " autism " waiver so that the program can be tailored to meet the needs across our spectrum and quit trying to fit our individuals into programs that just don't address the significant and unique needs across the spectrum. Those are exactly the ideas I had. I think, unless you are extremely lucky with your agency, that you may need to consider early going with the VFI system where you choose and train your own people. So far, that has worked signficantly better than letting the direct service agency send their people to work. (CLASS, through the VFI system, allows me to pay my habilitators $10.04 per hour...the agency personnel only make about $7, so you can imagine the quality of what they provide...you get what you pay for! nna > What agency does your children's case manager work with? I just faxed in the > paperwork listing R & L Group as the chosen case management provider and was > completely surprised to get a call from them this morning to set up an > appointment. The representative I talked to was extremely helpful in answering > questions and providing info about the types of services they offer. Compared to my > previous experience working with government agencies, I thought this was > pretty amazing. Of course, setting up an appointment and actually getting the > services are two different things. > > My understanding of CLASS is that it is a program intended to provide > services that will help a disabled person live in the community rather than having to > pay for the more expensive, residential option. Since my son is higher > functioning and at least minimally employable and self-sufficient at this point, he > does seem to fit CLASS better than HCS. With this in mind, I thought I'd > stay focused on things that would allow my son to possibly live on his own, get > and keep a job as he transitions into adulthood, hopefully saving the system > money further down the road. My mind was going towards building > life/independence skills through occupational therapy (motor issues making self-help skills > hard), speech/communication pragmatics and general life skills training > involving perspective taking/reading non-verbal social cues and generally > understanding the non-logical part of the world. Is this the wrong direction for this > program? Can you give me some tips for navigating the system? > Gaylen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 In a message dated 2/16/2006 9:06:35 AM Central Standard Time, mbond@... writes: <<No...you won't get occupational therapy through CLASS.>> Well, I know that there is often a wide gap in what is written and what actually happens with a lot of programs, but the packet they sent me clearly lists physical, occupational and speech therapy under the " services may include " section of CLASS. I think if we have problems getting this, I'm going to push it a bit further using this packet. Since so many of us with autistic teens are finally getting off the wait list right now, we can call nudge the system a bit harder to provide what these kids actually need to save the system money down the road. Having worked with various govt. agencies in three counties, I have seen that what is covered can vary greatly with who is managing the case. Many of the things that were easily provided through MHMR's IHFSP for us in Tarrant County were hotly disputed when we transferred to Collin County because the person deciding didn't understand what they were. It took a lot of effort but most of them did end up getting covered after we established a clear need and explanation as to why this would allow the person to remain in the community. What does " habilitation services " refer to? Life/living skills? Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Gaylen, No...you won't get occupational therapy through CLASS. You will get that paid for by Medicaid. You will have to find a Medicaid provider and go to their facility. That is why is currently getting no OT (which she desperately needs)...I can't find a Medicaid provider who will work with an adult on daily living skills THAT ALSO TAKES MEDICAID. Yes, you would ask to go with the VFI/CDS system and fill out that paperwork. But that will cover attendant care, respite care, and any habilitation. Any therapies (other than speech, OT, PT) will still come through the agency. I've had better luck with that... gets recreation therapy and massage therapy. They are both contractors who are not employees of the agency, so they are much better than the agency employees (they get paid alot of $$). Our massage therapist is AWESOME. The rec therapist has introduced to many new activities she probably wouldn't have attempted or even considered on her own, and REALLY likes them (for instance, he got her enrolled in a specialized martial arts class that she LOVES...she is now a green belt). But, as I said, they are contracted through and handled by the direct service agency. If you go through VFI/CDS, you end up working with three different agencies. The VFI agency just handles all the paperwork...you fax in time sheets, they handle everything else (much easier than they described to me initially). Then you also have quarterly meetings with your case manager, and yearly meetings that include the direct service agency. Also, they must do an intake with a nurse yearly to make sure they still qualify. nna " Our lives are not determined by what happens to us, but how we react to what happens; not by what life brings to us, but by the attitude we bring to life. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 If you can find a pediatric in home service they will provide speech and Ot through medicaid. We have one now and are getting excellent service. Very supported and seem to enjoy their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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