Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I don't see a problem with concrete floors for milking on. The small Jersey dairy I visit has this kind of floor and it's much better for cleaning, etc. It also has to be specially sealed so it doesn't absorb any bacteria. As long as they don't have to live on it, it's not bad. They come in, get milked and go out. Why are you worried about this? I wish I could have such a place. My concrete floor where I milk was not put in properly and is breaking up. It wasn't set up for milking and I would love to be able to get it done right. K.C. raw milk licensing I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Ask him whether a portable milking barn, such as the ones invented by Mark McAfee at Organic Pastures would be acceptable. See http://www.organicpastures.com/dairy/ http://www.organicpastures.com/images/picpage-parlor_milking.jpg .Langlois@... rose marie belforti wrote: I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Actually, I DO see a problem w/ this type of floor. If a cow is stressed and poops, it splatters to high heaven, it wastes a considerable amount of water and cleaner to keep it clean, and it is hard on the hooves, as well as human milkers. A much more environmentally friendly floor is bedding type material that can be easily cleaned and used for compost. It is generally a requirement, which is one big reason I do not WANT to have to operate under the regs. www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:40 AM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing I don't see a problem with concrete floors for milking on. The small Jersey dairy I visit has this kind of floor and it's much better for cleaning, etc. It also has to be specially sealed so it doesn't absorb any bacteria. As long as they don't have to live on it, it's not bad. They come in, get milked and go out. Why are you worried about this? I wish I could have such a place. My concrete floor where I milk was not put in properly and is breaking up. It wasn't set up for milking and I would love to be able to get it done right. K.C. raw milk licensing I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I agree, the animals are more comfortable and it is not less sanitary if you clean up and it is renewable! The cement is horrible - anyone ever been sitting near a cow when they pee on cement???? On the cow pies do not come out as solid as they dry...poop splatter all over the milker is great fun to clean. Jolynn Actually, I DO see a problem w/ this type of floor. If a cow is stressed and poops, it splatters to high heaven, it wastes a considerable amount of water and cleaner to keep it clean, and it is hard on the hooves, as well as human milkers. A much more environmentally friendly floor is bedding type material that can be easily cleaned and used for compost. It is generally a requirement, which is one big reason I do not WANT to have to operate under the regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Your right , but those are the rules!!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi K.C., just like the hard packed better for me and the cows!! But the senior N.Y. inspector (who, by the way, is a really really nice guy!!) says no way around concrete except for metal, which is worse!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 As far as I know, the law here states one MUST have a NON-POROUS FLOOR. That means you have to have a sealed concrete floor. I don't know how else you could have a non-porous floor unless you go with stainless, which would really be detrimental to the cows as they would not be able to walk on it. K.C. raw milk licensing I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Here too. It is based upon commercial, numerous cow set-ups which require a different set of parameters, which I am unwilling, at this time, to follow. www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:48 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing As far as I know, the law here states one MUST have a NON-POROUS FLOOR. That means you have to have a sealed concrete floor. I don't know how else you could have a non-porous floor unless you go with stainless, which would really be detrimental to the cows as they would not be able to walk on it. K.C. raw milk licensing I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Yep. The idea that a concrete floor is automatically more sanitary is not accurate at all. And we are not just talking about poop here….on a wet muddy day there is a lot less mess when they have a “fluffy” renewal floor to mud about on. www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of DrJWagner@... Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:12 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing I agree, the animals are more comfortable and it is not less sanitary if you clean up and it is renewable! The cement is horrible - anyone ever been sitting near a cow when they pee on cement???? On the cow pies do not come out as solid as they dry...poop splatter all over the milker is great fun to clean. Jolynn In a message dated 8/1/2005 6:36:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lotzakdz@... writes: Actually, I DO see a problem w/ this type of floor. If a cow is stressed and poops, it splatters to high heaven, it wastes a considerable amount of water and cleaner to keep it clean, and it is hard on the hooves, as well as human milkers. A much more environmentally friendly floor is bedding type material that can be easily cleaned and used for compost. It is generally a requirement, which is one big reason I do not WANT to have to operate under the regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Can you use those approved matts for them to walk on over the floor? K.C. Re: raw milk licensing , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 How hard is to clean with a pressure hose? I would think, if one has to have concrete, the milking parlor will have hoses to clean things down with, right? Seems like a breeze to me. But then, I don't have any of that, so I don't know for sure. Just surmising. K.C. it is a breeze - except the pressure hose starts to pressure wash off the concrete as they make it an aggregate mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Mats are even worse to clean than concrete, though better for feet www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:39 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing Can you use those approved matts for them to walk on over the floor? K.C. ----- Original Message ----- From: rose marie belforti To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: raw milk licensing , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 How hard is to clean with a pressure hose? I would think, if one has to have concrete, the milking parlor will have hoses to clean things down with, right? Seems like a breeze to me. But then, I don't have any of that, so I don't know for sure. Just surmising. K.C. Re: raw milk licensing , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Even if it's sealed? Usually with that sealant, I thought it won't wash away. Show's I have much more to learn. K.C. Re: raw milk licensing How hard is to clean with a pressure hose? I would think, if one has to have concrete, the milking parlor will have hoses to clean things down with, right? Seems like a breeze to me. But then, I don't have any of that, so I don't know for sure. Just surmising. K.C. it is a breeze - except the pressure hose starts to pressure wash off the concrete as they make it an aggregate mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 My milking bail has a concrete floor which has benefits and disadvantages. It wasn't put down by anyone who milked cows I'm sure, as it has a thin layer of plaster brushed on top of it. This is very dangerous as once it's wet it's like an ice-skating rink. I train a lot of youngsters to milk and have had one go down on it. We hired a kangohammer and created as rough a surface as we could but it's still not ideal. I now put a layer of straw down whilst training new cows. Hopefully I'll soon have enough money to have the floor redone in a good rough concrete. A trained cow is only in the milking bail for 10 minutes so I don't consider this amount of time standing on concrete to be damaging in any way. It's easy to clean and if the cups happen to get kicked off there's no dust to be sucked up. The most important thing about concrete is for the surface to be as rough as possible. Cheers Midge > I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. > One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. > Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? > Is this a reg in other states too? > Thanks, > Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Hi all, This business of concrete and milking. In Vermont this is the only acceptable flooring material as far as i know. When they outlawed wood stables 30 years ago this was a big issue. The old wood stables were easy to keep clean ( used less bedding) better for the cows and the people working in them and easy to maintain and renew when needed. The issue I personally have with the regulations is that what do we all do in our concrete stables is put sawdust on the floor. If a wood stable was harboring any bacteria why wouldn't the sawdust do the same? Well thats the rule so we have " mattresses " over the cement in our barn. They are more cushioning to the cows than regular rubber mats. We have our 70 milkers on them and have very little trouble with them. The regulations dont always make sense as they are usually made up by those who have never worked in a dairy day after day for their whole lives. Many of the small 1-10 cow dairies that sell raw milk on the sly in vermont just tie their cows to a post in a loose housing shed or other small out buildings on dirt or bedded pack barn to do the milking. But until things change if they ever do a class A dairy must be milked on cement. Off to haying. I would suggest the mattresses if you want a alternative to bare cement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I would do the same, bed on the concrete. But the larger picture is the amount of water, site planning for drainage, and cleanup time and hassle, in addition to the other issues mentioned. Imagine the difference between a " daily rinse " on concrete and a when needed bedding change. Concrete is not an environmentally friendly choice www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust Re: Re: raw milk licensing Hi all, This business of concrete and milking. In Vermont this is the only acceptable flooring material as far as i know. When they outlawed wood stables 30 years ago this was a big issue. The old wood stables were easy to keep clean ( used less bedding) better for the cows and the people working in them and easy to maintain and renew when needed. The issue I personally have with the regulations is that what do we all do in our concrete stables is put sawdust on the floor. If a wood stable was harboring any bacteria why wouldn't the sawdust do the same? Well thats the rule so we have " mattresses " over the cement in our barn. They are more cushioning to the cows than regular rubber mats. We have our 70 milkers on them and have very little trouble with them. The regulations dont always make sense as they are usually made up by those who have never worked in a dairy day after day for their whole lives. Many of the small 1-10 cow dairies that sell raw milk on the sly in vermont just tie their cows to a post in a loose housing shed or other small out buildings on dirt or bedded pack barn to do the milking. But until things change if they ever do a class A dairy must be milked on cement. Off to haying. I would suggest the mattresses if you want a alternative to bare cement. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 OK here goes: #1 Once you get into pressure washing and into water volume you need drains, a drain field, septic system to handle the water. #2 Once you get drains you have a wonderful place for bacterial growth in damp drains, unless you use a antibacterial rinse, which then gets into the water and into the soil. #3 Concrete CREATES a climate for more mess, so there is MORE cleanup required. #4 The infrastructure required, which starts w/ concrete and goes down the line, drains, etc to washing equipment costs money, and doesn’t stop costing with just the purchase. So essentially, you have a worse system for a micro dairy that costs more and takes more time. Of course, that’s par for the course with Govt regs…. www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:34 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing How hard is to clean with a pressure hose? I would think, if one has to have concrete, the milking parlor will have hoses to clean things down with, right? Seems like a breeze to me. But then, I don't have any of that, so I don't know for sure. Just surmising. K.C. ----- Original Message ----- From: lotzakdz To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: RE: raw milk licensing Mats are even worse to clean than concrete, though better for feet www.MajestyFarm.com " Few Men desire Liberty; most Men only wish for a just master. " Sallust From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Tinybabe Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:39 PM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: raw milk licensing Can you use those approved matts for them to walk on over the floor? K.C. ----- Original Message ----- From: rose marie belforti To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: raw milk licensing , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Thanks all for the concrete info. You are all correct in that is makes no sense. I like the idea of keeping it rough, so if I am going to put down a slab, it should be left rough!! And if it is only enough to milk on, I will have to find out if I will be allowed to have a dirt floor adjacent to the concrete floor in the same room. There may be a reg. that says the whole milking room has to be concrete. Stupid rules, and to be so dumbed down is disgusting, but, at what point do we give up on an idea? I also found out that if I am going to have a processing room for making cheese, it cannot have a door into the cooling room, so I have to walk outside during a blizzard, with my cooled milk, just to come back in again into the very next room. Is that stupid??? N.Y. wants NO access from cooling room to milking room. I wonder if I could get around this by having a LARGE passthrough window that I could just send the milk over to another counter top. Any ingenious ideas out there on how to set up a milk barn, cooling room, processing room all under one roof?? Thanks!!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 And concrete is bad for human legs and feet as much as it is for cows!! When you think of being on it all day, especially if you are working in a cooling room and a processing room!! That's a lot of concrete!!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I wonder if the inspectors would go for rubber flooring?? They want it to be impervious!! And that is so stupid too, because they want drains that will bring the yuck stuff out into a field, and as long as the field is not foaming, they are fine with it!!! Urks me!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 If you milk on a cow share idea then does that matter? You wouldn't need the license then right? & Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ raw milk licensing I have an inspector coming to my farm this morning because I am thinking to get set up to sell raw milk here in N.Y. One of the regs is that you have to have a concrete floor for the cows milking room. Anyone have any suggestions about how to get around that? I hate concrete floors and do not want to milk my cows (probably only 3-5 cows at most) on concrete? Is this a reg in other states too? Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I am confused here. Do you have to have concrete in the milk parlour or the whole barn? In Manitoba we have to have concrete in the milk handling and milk parlour area but after that the licensing regs aren;t involved. As long as you can keep the animals clean they don't care. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I'm convinced not to get a big concrete floor done. But, dirt gets dusty and dust can fly in to milk and get into the works of stuff and gum them up. So where is the happy middle ground? K.C. Re: raw milk licensing , I did ask him that, he said as long as it has a metal floor. I am trying to stay away from concrete, but the only legal alternative is metal, which is not good for cows, they slip and fall! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.