Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Yes , you are very right. I'm one of those lurkers. I know nothing about the farms and farm animals, I'm only a pet owner. I can't comment on anything because I'm so naive but I'm very interested in farms and what's going on there. I belong to Farm Sanctuary and help to make better lives for factory farm animals. I'm so happy to read about the humane way all of you members treat your animals. I wish all of food animals were treated this way. Thank you for expressing my feelings Barbara > > those of us would-be farmer lurkers (lurking on the farming posts we > know nothing about even if we comment on other posts), and i doubt i > speak only for myself, want to know what it's REALLY like... > > thanks. > > laura > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thanks , I guess one question I have is: why use a mean bull to breed your cows? That temperament transfers into your herd? Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thanks K.C. on the A.I.!! I am in total agreement with you. I have a super tech who gets it done every time, he lives just up the road, and he is completely reliable!! The semen I get for my Dexters is the best collected. I just had a heifer born from an "elite" bull in england and I am so very happy with her!!! She is a gem!!! I could never have done that by using the available bulls from american herds because the Dexter breed is changing rapidly in the u.s. and probably canada too. They are being bred up to tall beefy animals and hardly look like Dexters any more. There are two schools of thought on the Dexter, and the English tend to keep them small, while also trying to eradicate the chondrodysplasia gene. While the US breeders are trying to get as much meat out of the animal as they can, and not focusing on the traditional look of the beast. I tend to go with the British on this, because I really hate to see economics rule out for one thing, and I think the little ones are easier to handle for the people who want to milk. Anyway, I appreciate your view on the A.I. I think it was Cheyanne who wrote that the A.I. was not a good way to go, and I was very confused by that. It may be breed specific, but I highly doubt anyone would bother with collecting a bad bull. That would be stupid. The thing that is probably true is that the gene pool becomes limited. So I guess using both A.I. and a good bull on the farm is a smart way to go. Thanks, Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi K.C., You are entitled to your opinion.=) I am around these goats and cows day in and day out and I can tell when they are upset. And let me tell you, they are NOT upset about the butchering. The " wanting to give aid to their friend " idea is just slightly too Disney for me. And I am NOT trying to be insulting, OK?? Just my veiws on things from where I am standing. I enjoy a good Disney, but sometimes I do not think they have done the world a good turn with their talking animals. Animals do not have human-type emotions, but many kids grew up thinking they do and it leads to all sorts if misguided feelings. Again, I am NOT accusing you of this, just rambling on.....=) Butchering is not FUN, but it is a neccesary part of farm life. I have been accused of " murder " , " abuse " , " cruelty " etc, etc, on my groups when people find out that I kill and butcher my own goats. They somehow think that I cannot possibly love goats if I can also kill them. They are WRONG. The way I kill is humane and they don't even know what happened. Much more humane than dropping them off at an auction barn or a slaughter house to be pushed around and scared badly before they die. I love my goats and want what is best for them. I'll get off my soapbox now.<grin> Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > As for them crowding around you, I read this in another way. I see it as the animals trying to stop you from harming their herd mate or trying to see what is wrong and wanting to give aid to their friend. > > The reason I say this is because when Sammy was sedated to go onto a truck (no way we were going to get him on that truck, drugged or not) and he went out into the pasture and conked out, all three of the girls went and surrounded him and were licking him and nudging him because they knew something was wrong with him. We had to make them get out of the way to give him a reversal shot. Once he sat up, but was still down, they laid down around him and stayed with him till he was able to get up and walk again. > > Naturally, you can do what is necessary for you. For me, and maybe you all think I'm just a woos, but I wouldn't want to kill and butcher their friends right in front of them. I think it's cruel. Please don't take offense as I also don't hunt, but understand other people do and I'm not condemning anyone. It's just not the way I would do it. > > Just for fun, you should get an animal communicator in and see how the others really feel about it. Might be interesting. > > K.C. > Re: strategy for bulls > > > Hi K.C., > I was told this a long time ago too. > You know, this has turned out to be totally false with our herd. > goats and cattle. We have butchered steers and bulls in our front > pasture with all the cows looking on and they don't blink an > eyelash. These are steers that the cows have been grazing and living > with for months! Our cows had to be run off because they wanted to > get in our way and check everything out while we were gutting and > skinning. And our cows are pets. I once milked our old Jersey, > Ginger, right underneath a hanging deer. Right overtop of the blood > on the floor(emergency situation, folks. I'm NOT reccomending > this!), and she ate very calmly and never even looked around. > Same with our goats. I butcher regularly right next to the barn, > where both the bucks, and does with kids can see and smell. The kids > crowd round my feet while I do the butchering, and I have to > literally push my milking does away from the carcase so I can work. > Some even want to stick their heads inside the ribcage and see what > makes them tick....<grin> Animals are funny. Anyway, my point is > that " I think " that it isn't death and blood that animals fear, but > violent death. Where an animal dies violently and knows its dying. > In other words, fear. I think its fear that other critters can smell > and it affects them. I know some of you are thinking " she doesn't > think shooting in the head is " violent " death??? " .<grin> No, > actually if you've seen it done right, its not. If its aimed > correctly, one quick " pop " , and they drop like a stone. They don't > know its coming, and there is no time to feel anything. A few reflex > movements as blood drains, but the animal is " dead " . Ok, now that I > have rambled on and probably grossed a lot of you out, I will shut > up.=) > > Dixon > Ozark Jewels > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas, and Alpines > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 The way I kill is humane and they don't > even know what happened. , continuing in the ignorant-would-be-farmer vein, i have often wondered what is the most humane way. is it too much to ask you to tell us what you do...or is this too gruesome a question (or rather, answer). laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 That is a very good question, Rose Marie. The main answer is simple. Money. We just paid $700 for this bull and cannot afford to find another bull of breeding size to breed our cows this year. All our cows are open and need bred now to keep us in milk. So we will use him and then in the freezer he goes. We will raise one this Fall for next years breedings. The secondary reason is that it seems to us in our years of owning Jerseys, that the temperment comes mainly through the cows, rather than the bulls. Thirdly, we keep all our hiefers till they freshen so if it turns out that they DO have their sires temperment(unlikely), they will get their turn in the freezer. All his bull calves will end up as butcher steers anyway. Hope this answers your question.=) Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > Thanks , > I guess one question I have is: why use a mean bull to breed your cows? That temperament transfers into your herd? > Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 K.C. I would do like you if I had farm animals. You show that you are sensitive to their emotions. And I would interpret the herd's reaction the way you do. But then what do I know... LOL Well, I already said too much so I will go back to lurking. Barbara Naturally, you can do what is necessary for you. For me, and maybe you all think I'm just a woos, but I wouldn't want to kill and butcher their friends right in front of them. I think it's cruel. Please don't take offense as I also don't hunt, but understand other people do and I'm not condemning anyone. It's just not the way I would do it. Just for fun, you should get an animal communicator in and see how the others really feel about it. Might be interesting. K.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Just for kicks, I would like to invite you all out to my farm the next butchering day if you get a chance. Then you can see for yourselves just how upset the animals get about it. Standing around, chewing cuds and dozing......=) Anyone close enough to take me up on that offer?? Until you've seen it for yourselves, you just can't know......I'm serious now, anyone up for it?? Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > K.C. I would do like you if I had farm animals. You show that you are sensitive to their emotions. And I would interpret the herd's reaction the way you do. But then what do I know... LOL > Well, I already said too much so I will go back to lurking. > > Barbara > > > > > Naturally, you can do what is necessary for you. For me, and maybe you all think I'm just a woos, but I wouldn't want to kill and butcher their friends right in front of them. I think it's cruel. Please don't take offense as I also don't hunt, but understand other people do and I'm not condemning anyone. It's just not the way I would do it. > > Just for fun, you should get an animal communicator in and see how the others really feel about it. Might be interesting. > > K.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 , let me respond to this part of your post. The tide is definitely changing in the way scientists are thinking about amimals and their feelings. Jane Goodall was the first who noticed the emotional lives of the chimpanzees she studied in Gombe in Africa in the 60s. Since that time there were studies after studies that confirmed her findings and with all kinds of animals. Humans, did not one day woke up feeling compassion, anger or tenderness towards others, they inherited it from other primates. Primates inherited those feelings from their ancestors and so it goes down the line. I admit that every person is entitled to her opinion Barbara > Animals do not have human-type emotions, but many kids grew > up thinking they do and it leads to all sorts if misguided feelings. > > Dixon > Ozark Jewels > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thanks much Bev!!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I'm too far, I'm in Florida Barbara > Just for kicks, I would like to invite you all out to my farm the > next butchering day if you get a chance. Then you can see for > yourselves just how upset the animals get about it. Standing around, > chewing cuds and dozing......=) Anyone close enough to take me up on > that offer?? Until you've seen it for yourselves, you just can't > know......I'm serious now, anyone up for it?? > > Dixon > Ozark Jewels > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Aw, too bad. The offer stands if your ever in the Southern Missouri area.=) Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > I'm too far, I'm in Florida > > Barbara > > > > > > > Just for kicks, I would like to invite you all out to my farm the > > next butchering day if you get a chance. Then you can see for > > yourselves just how upset the animals get about it. Standing around, > > chewing cuds and dozing......=) Anyone close enough to take me up on > > that offer?? Until you've seen it for yourselves, you just can't > > know......I'm serious now, anyone up for it?? > > > > Dixon > > Ozark Jewels > > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Thanks Looks like we woud have a great debate if we ever met Barbara > Aw, too bad. The offer stands if your ever in the Southern Missouri > area.=) > > Dixon > Ozark Jewels > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi Tom, About four hours from here to St. Louis.....=) Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > >The offer stands if your ever in the Southern Missouri area.=) > > Hmmm.... How far is that from St. Louis? > > Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I hope you don't think I'm accusing you of any of those things like murder or cruelty because I'm not. I realize this is a part of farm life and it's done every day all over the world. It's just not for me. I have a friend who raises sheep. Every year there are some people who come there to get a couple of lambs. I don't remember what country they are from, but they pick the lamb out, sit with it, stroking it and loving on it and then slit it's throat. It's aparantely a very old custom for their people and the lamb doesn't know anything and is totally at peace when it dies. Again, I wouldn't want to witness this or partake, but I understand their need to keep with their customs. I've also had the pleasure of working with an animal communicator and I find it amazing what animals are really thinking at times. Just my opinions and not meant to put anyone down. K.C. Re: strategy for bulls> > > Hi K.C.,> I was told this a long time ago too.> You know, this has turned out to be totally false with our herd. > goats and cattle. We have butchered steers and bulls in our front > pasture with all the cows looking on and they don't blink an > eyelash. These are steers that the cows have been grazing and living > with for months! Our cows had to be run off because they wanted to > get in our way and check everything out while we were gutting and > skinning. And our cows are pets. I once milked our old Jersey, > Ginger, right underneath a hanging deer. Right overtop of the blood > on the floor(emergency situation, folks. I'm NOT reccomending > this!), and she ate very calmly and never even looked around.> Same with our goats. I butcher regularly right next to the barn, > where both the bucks, and does with kids can see and smell. The kids > crowd round my feet while I do the butchering, and I have to > literally push my milking does away from the carcase so I can work. > Some even want to stick their heads inside the ribcage and see what > makes them tick....<grin> Animals are funny. Anyway, my point is > that "I think" that it isn't death and blood that animals fear, but > violent death. Where an animal dies violently and knows its dying. > In other words, fear. I think its fear that other critters can smell > and it affects them. I know some of you are thinking "she doesn't > think shooting in the head is "violent" death???".<grin> No, > actually if you've seen it done right, its not. If its aimed > correctly, one quick "pop", and they drop like a stone. They don't > know its coming, and there is no time to feel anything. A few reflex > movements as blood drains, but the animal is "dead". Ok, now that I > have rambled on and probably grossed a lot of you out, I will shut > up.=)> > Dixon> Ozark Jewels> Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas, and Alpines> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I'm curious if you pay more for the semen from the U.K. The way I see it, it costs lots of money to keep a bull. Not just in the upkeep of the animal, i.e. feeding, medical, etc., but in fence repairing, hole filling and stuff that people have no clue about when owning a bull.....unless you have a really well planned out situation. Most semen is relatively inexpensive for standard sized cattle. Semen for Minis start at $50 a straw, plus the $20 or $30 the tech charges. You get the bull you want and you can't beat the price and peace of mind. It's the best way for me. K.C. Re: strategy for bulls Thanks K.C. on the A.I.!! I am in total agreement with you. I have a super tech who gets it done every time, he lives just up the road, and he is completely reliable!! The semen I get for my Dexters is the best collected. I just had a heifer born from an "elite" bull in england and I am so very happy with her!!! She is a gem!!! I could never have done that by using the available bulls from american herds because the Dexter breed is changing rapidly in the u.s. and probably canada too. They are being bred up to tall beefy animals and hardly look like Dexters any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 No K.C., I didn't think you were saying that.=) I have heard it again and again from some people, though.<shaking head> I completely understand you not wanting to have anything to do with the butchering process. Its not for everybody. I would rather send them off and get them back in nice, neat little packages too. Its just that with as much meat as my family eats(12 kids, Mom and Dad), we can't afford to send all the goats off to slaughter. Its not worth it. And by raising our own meat, I know it was raised healthily, without any hormones or steroids. Also with very little drugs, if any. Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > > As for them crowding around you, I read this in another way. I see > it as the animals trying to stop you from harming their herd mate or > trying to see what is wrong and wanting to give aid to their friend. > > > > The reason I say this is because when Sammy was sedated to go onto > a truck (no way we were going to get him on that truck, drugged or > not) and he went out into the pasture and conked out, all three of > the girls went and surrounded him and were licking him and nudging > him because they knew something was wrong with him. We had to make > them get out of the way to give him a reversal shot. Once he sat up, > but was still down, they laid down around him and stayed with him > till he was able to get up and walk again. > > > > Naturally, you can do what is necessary for you. For me, and maybe > you all think I'm just a woos, but I wouldn't want to kill and > butcher their friends right in front of them. I think it's cruel. > Please don't take offense as I also don't hunt, but understand other > people do and I'm not condemning anyone. It's just not the way I > would do it. > > > > Just for fun, you should get an animal communicator in and see how > the others really feel about it. Might be interesting. > > > > K.C. > > Re: strategy for bulls > > > > > > Hi K.C., > > I was told this a long time ago too. > > You know, this has turned out to be totally false with our herd. > > goats and cattle. We have butchered steers and bulls in our > front > > pasture with all the cows looking on and they don't blink an > > eyelash. These are steers that the cows have been grazing and > living > > with for months! Our cows had to be run off because they wanted > to > > get in our way and check everything out while we were gutting and > > skinning. And our cows are pets. I once milked our old Jersey, > > Ginger, right underneath a hanging deer. Right overtop of the > blood > > on the floor(emergency situation, folks. I'm NOT reccomending > > this!), and she ate very calmly and never even looked around. > > Same with our goats. I butcher regularly right next to the barn, > > where both the bucks, and does with kids can see and smell. The > kids > > crowd round my feet while I do the butchering, and I have to > > literally push my milking does away from the carcase so I can > work. > > Some even want to stick their heads inside the ribcage and see > what > > makes them tick....<grin> Animals are funny. Anyway, my point > is > > that " I think " that it isn't death and blood that animals fear, > but > > violent death. Where an animal dies violently and knows its > dying. > > In other words, fear. I think its fear that other critters can > smell > > and it affects them. I know some of you are thinking " she > doesn't > > think shooting in the head is " violent " death??? " .<grin> No, > > actually if you've seen it done right, its not. If its aimed > > correctly, one quick " pop " , and they drop like a stone. They > don't > > know its coming, and there is no time to feel anything. A few > reflex > > movements as blood drains, but the animal is " dead " . Ok, now > that I > > have rambled on and probably grossed a lot of you out, I will > shut > > up.=) > > > > Dixon > > Ozark Jewels > > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas, and Alpines > > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 > I have a friend who raises sheep. Every year there are some people who come there to get a couple of lambs. I don't remember what country they are from, but they pick the lamb out, sit with it, stroking it and loving on it and then slit it's throat. It's aparantely a very old custom for their people and the lamb doesn't know anything and is totally at peace when it dies.>>>> I have also been told that is the best way to slaughter. I just can't handle it though. I have this awful fear that I will not do it right and they will hurt from my mistake....So I use the pistol method. Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Since I use a couple of cows to nurse calves, I get a bull calf unrelated to my cows each year. After he has done the deed, I put him in with steers and throw the groceries at him. He goes to slaughter with the rest. So far I have had very good luck. Jerseys can get the job done by one year old, most breeds by 14 months. Dad bought a Beefmaster that was 11 months and 3 days old. The seller said he might not breed for a couple of months yet. When Dad had him 289 days he had 9 calves on the ground, all born within a week. Bill Dunlap __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 K.C. the semen I got from England was first brought in by a u.s. citizen. And I think it was very expensive for her to get it here. I do not think she would make her money back, but it was a determination to get it over here!! It was expensive for me to buy the semen also. $45.00 a straw!!! Rose Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 : How different tasting is goat meat from lamb? I love good home grown lamb when I can get it, but have never had goat. I know a lot of people around here (mostly Hispanic people) eat goat. They usually buy the wethers (Spelling?) from people like my friend or get them from the sale. K.C. Re: strategy for bulls> > > > > > Hi K.C.,> > I was told this a long time ago too.> > You know, this has turned out to be totally false with our herd. > > goats and cattle. We have butchered steers and bulls in our > front > > pasture with all the cows looking on and they don't blink an > > eyelash. These are steers that the cows have been grazing and > living > > with for months! Our cows had to be run off because they wanted > to > > get in our way and check everything out while we were gutting and > > skinning. And our cows are pets. I once milked our old Jersey, > > Ginger, right underneath a hanging deer. Right overtop of the > blood > > on the floor(emergency situation, folks. I'm NOT reccomending > > this!), and she ate very calmly and never even looked around.> > Same with our goats. I butcher regularly right next to the barn, > > where both the bucks, and does with kids can see and smell. The > kids > > crowd round my feet while I do the butchering, and I have to > > literally push my milking does away from the carcase so I can > work. > > Some even want to stick their heads inside the ribcage and see > what > > makes them tick....<grin> Animals are funny. Anyway, my point > is > > that "I think" that it isn't death and blood that animals fear, > but > > violent death. Where an animal dies violently and knows its > dying. > > In other words, fear. I think its fear that other critters can > smell > > and it affects them. I know some of you are thinking "she > doesn't > > think shooting in the head is "violent" death???".<grin> No, > > actually if you've seen it done right, its not. If its aimed > > correctly, one quick "pop", and they drop like a stone. They > don't > > know its coming, and there is no time to feel anything. A few > reflex > > movements as blood drains, but the animal is "dead". Ok, now > that I > > have rambled on and probably grossed a lot of you out, I will > shut > > up.=)> > > > Dixon> > Ozark Jewels> > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas, and Alpines> > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Beefmasters are great animals. The lady who raises them here calls them the "Gentle Giants". They sure are good looking cattle. K.C. Re: strategy for bulls Since I use a couple of cows to nurse calves, I get abull calf unrelated to my cows each year. After he hasdone the deed, I put him in with steers and throw thegroceries at him. He goes to slaughter with the rest.So far I have had very good luck. Jerseys can get the job done by one year old, mostbreeds by 14 months. Dad bought a Beefmaster that was11 months and 3 days old. The seller said he might notbreed for a couple of months yet. When Dad had him 289days he had 9 calves on the ground, all born within aweek. Bill Dunlap__________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Actually, I don't consider $45-$50 a lot considering how much it would cost to keep a bull. Plus, you are getting semen from primo bulls and you can sell your calves for a good price. I think you did well. K.C. Re: strategy for bulls K.C. the semen I got from England was first brought in by a u.s. citizen. And I think it was very expensive for her to get it here. I do not think she would make her money back, but it was a determination to get it over here!! It was expensive for me to buy the semen also. $45.00 a straw!!! Rose MariePLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 > She is a gem!!! I could never have done that by using the available bulls from american herds because the Dexter breed is changing rapidly in the u.s. and probably canada too. They are being bred up to tall beefy animals and hardly look like Dexters any more. My point exactly, that's why I said to use bulls from New Zealand if you use A.I. because in America they have lost touch with reality. All that matters is size and production. I don't know if the companies carry semen from very many other countries but they are getting from NZ because the graziers don't want the inbred elephants that come from the few farms supplying bulls for the US. I have a couple neighbors up the road that sell bulls to A.I. companies. It's a money game, and there is nothing profitable about those cows or their bulls. They are pumped with BGH and fed garbage of every sort. Those cows never leave their stalls. They weigh 1900 lbs. If you want a cow that can last and milk on grass that is not the way to go. I've seen ads for German Reds and other similar breeds because they also have many better traits than what's available here. It's pretty sad when the big A.I.'s have to bring in from other countries because they've made such a mess of things here. Nothing new for " modern ag " though. A.I. is the simplest option if you only have one cow or are not wanting to deal with bulls, and there are options available. Sorry for the confusion. I take a very hard stance against everything conventional because it has driven so many farmers off the land and made it so hard for young people to get started because everybody is in bed together. The banker wont give a loan unless the farmer has all the parasites lined up to bleed him dry. Of course that keeps the farmer in bondage most if not all their life. Of the few young startups in my area over the last few years I'm the only one left. I'm also the only one that cast conventional " wisdom " aside and did everything " backwards " . I'm not bragging just trying to get people to think outside the box as I know how difficult it is to get into farming full time as many desire. > I think it was Cheyenne who wrote that the A.I. was not a good way to go, and I was very confused by that. It may be breed specific, but I highly doubt anyone would bother with collecting a bad bull. That would be stupid.. Gerald Fry has an excellent book called Reproduction and animal Health. He has spent a lifetime breeding, observing, and measuring cattle and has a pretty harsh view of where modern breeding has taken us. Obviously I agree. What the A.I. companies have done is stupid and most of their bulls are bad. Unless you want a high maintenance animal. He estimates that of the tens of millions of cattle in the US only a few hundred would have the qualities of a truly profitable LOW INPUT animal. Which is why you went to England. Good for you. > The thing that is probably true is that the gene pool becomes limited. So I guess using both A.I. and a good bull on the farm is a smart way to go. > Thanks, Rose Marie Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I'm sorry K.C, I seem to have missed this question from you. I think Chevon(goat meat), is delicious and better than lamb. You can use it in just about any dish in place of lamb or beef. If done right, it is very tasty. Two main things to remember about goat meat: #1, cook it slowly. #2, cook it with plenty of moisture. It is a very low fat meat so it needs plenty of moisture to retain its good texture. Our family loves it when I roast it overnight with the oven on *200. By morning its tender and delicious. Spice it up a bit and YUM! And that is the correct way to spell wethers.=) Dixon Ozark Jewels Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas and Alpines > > > As for them crowding around you, I read this in another way. I > see > > it as the animals trying to stop you from harming their herd mate > or > > trying to see what is wrong and wanting to give aid to their > friend. > > > > > > The reason I say this is because when Sammy was sedated to go > onto > > a truck (no way we were going to get him on that truck, drugged > or > > not) and he went out into the pasture and conked out, all three > of > > the girls went and surrounded him and were licking him and > nudging > > him because they knew something was wrong with him. We had to > make > > them get out of the way to give him a reversal shot. Once he sat > up, > > but was still down, they laid down around him and stayed with him > > till he was able to get up and walk again. > > > > > > Naturally, you can do what is necessary for you. For me, and > maybe > > you all think I'm just a woos, but I wouldn't want to kill and > > butcher their friends right in front of them. I think it's > cruel. > > Please don't take offense as I also don't hunt, but understand > other > > people do and I'm not condemning anyone. It's just not the way I > > would do it. > > > > > > Just for fun, you should get an animal communicator in and see > how > > the others really feel about it. Might be interesting. > > > > > > K.C. > > > Re: strategy for bulls > > > > > > > > > Hi K.C., > > > I was told this a long time ago too. > > > You know, this has turned out to be totally false with our > herd. > > > goats and cattle. We have butchered steers and bulls in our > > front > > > pasture with all the cows looking on and they don't blink an > > > eyelash. These are steers that the cows have been grazing > and > > living > > > with for months! Our cows had to be run off because they > wanted > > to > > > get in our way and check everything out while we were gutting > and > > > skinning. And our cows are pets. I once milked our old > Jersey, > > > Ginger, right underneath a hanging deer. Right overtop of > the > > blood > > > on the floor(emergency situation, folks. I'm NOT > reccomending > > > this!), and she ate very calmly and never even looked around. > > > Same with our goats. I butcher regularly right next to the > barn, > > > where both the bucks, and does with kids can see and smell. > The > > kids > > > crowd round my feet while I do the butchering, and I have to > > > literally push my milking does away from the carcase so I can > > work. > > > Some even want to stick their heads inside the ribcage and > see > > what > > > makes them tick....<grin> Animals are funny. Anyway, my > point > > is > > > that " I think " that it isn't death and blood that animals > fear, > > but > > > violent death. Where an animal dies violently and knows its > > dying. > > > In other words, fear. I think its fear that other critters > can > > smell > > > and it affects them. I know some of you are thinking " she > > doesn't > > > think shooting in the head is " violent " death??? " .<grin> No, > > > actually if you've seen it done right, its not. If its aimed > > > correctly, one quick " pop " , and they drop like a stone. They > > don't > > > know its coming, and there is no time to feel anything. A > few > > reflex > > > movements as blood drains, but the animal is " dead " . Ok, now > > that I > > > have rambled on and probably grossed a lot of you out, I will > > shut > > > up.=) > > > > > > Dixon > > > Ozark Jewels > > > Boers, Nubians, Lamanchas, and Alpines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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