Re: I over blended my butter

[Guest guest]

> Laurie,

>

> Was that thread on this list or another? I haven't been paying

much

> attention lately. Obviously. I know what it is like to have a

> texture/taste issue so I can really sympathize with you. I look

forward to

> hearing how you find a solution!! Little did we know we'd all grow

up to be

> kitchen chemists, eh????

>

> Sharon, NH

sharon, i'm pretty sure the thread was here; there might have been a

similar thread over on NN i don't remember i tend to combine and

confuse these 2 lists in my mind.

when i finally get around to ordering the culture, and actually make

the sour cream, and then actually make the butter, i will definitely

post here my success or failure. but don't hold your breath.

laura

[Guest guest]

That's why I always say....Whatever floats your boat, that's what you should do.

I agree with the kefir thing. Some of the stuff I've read about as to how to make it just wouldn't work for me either. I still think it depends on your area and climate at certain times of the year.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

> Don't know what to say. I've let it go to room temp once and wouldn't do it again. Took about 45 minutes just to whip up and Margie's cream is super thick. Since it works best for me refrigerated or at least cold, that's what I do.> > K.C.KC, i'm constantly amazed by the variation of what people do to get the same results and this is no exception.everyone does what they do for a reason...and that's why we're here, to learn from each other.i just amazes me. like with the kefir; if i did with my kefir what others do i would have really lousy results.lauraPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

, how long do you have to shake it for. I cannot believe you can make butter by just shaking the cream!!

So do you think my blender is over working it??

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sharon, very much!

But do you through away all the buttermilk, or is it whey?

That is really good stuff!

You can soak steel cut oats over night and when cooked in the morning it is superb!!!

Thanks for the website!

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

what do you mean "separate the cream at room temp."?

Because you have to frig the milk directly after milking. Do you mean you let the milk sit out after milking until the cream come to the top?

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

> what do you mean " separate the cream at room temp. " ?

> Because you have to frig the milk directly after milking. Do you

mean you let the milk sit out after milking until the cream come to

the top?

> Rose Marie

yes, i think that's what they do but i'm not sure; i'll ask.

it would make sense to not cool the milk after milking, but let the

warm, freshly milked milk just sit and separate.

i'll ask them, tho i think they might have told me that's what they

do already, i just don't remember exactly.

and i'll ask how long it takes to separate into the cream they want

of the proper consistency.

i have a sneaking suspicion, tho, knowing my farmer and how they

don't like making butter, that because they consider it to be a pain

in the neck, that they might let it sit too long before making the

butter, hence the sour taste.

i bet if they let it sit only long enough for the cream to sep. out

and then immediately made the butter and fridged it, it wouldn't

taste as 'bad'.

laura

[Guest guest]

Could be. Yes I just sit on the couch with my wife and enjoy some quiet

time and shake. The whole process takes about half hour from cream to

butter in the fridge. And for me the fun part is doing it without any

electric gizmo that i have to clean up. Just a jar. I am very careful

when washing the butter with cold water. I wash, mix in then drain till

the water stays clear. Makes much better butter and last longer too.

Good luck.

Vermont

> , how long do you have to shake it for. I cannot believe you can

> make butter by just shaking the cream!!

> So do you think my blender is over working it??

> Rose Marie

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If my milk is cold, I leave it out with the grains in it (new batch) for a few hours and then put it in the fridge and WHAM it thickens up and we're off and running. Not too sour, no bitterness, just good. And I agree with you on the amount of grains. I know some recommend a couple tablespoons per quart of milk, but for me I prefer more grains as I think it kefirs faster.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

> ,> > Were you using cow milk or goat milk? I can't handle cow milk kefir. It's> a texture thing with me. I hate the "lumpies". And talk about "sour".> Oh, it was a struggle to get half a cup down. But kefir and goat's milk?> It's heaven. I can't get enough of it. Smooth as a baby's..well, not a> good analogy, but smooth as silk, effervescent, creamy, "bright", lively,> crisp, tangy, yummy beyond description. > > Sharon, NH> >Hi Sharon, we had a whole thread about this topic too, LOL!! but more recently, like in the last few days.yes, cow milk kefir, and the upshot was, how long to culture, at room temp or fridge, and with how much grains. my opinion was, i love cow milk kefir if you culture it with lots and lots of grains (like 1/3 qt grains to 2/3 qt milk) in the fridge for a couple days. but others disagreed because apparently there is much variation betw. grains and some complained of bitterness if you use too many grains whereas my kefir comes out sweeter the more grains i use.i'd try goat milk but i don't have a source. yet. we're working on it.lauraPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

There's a place here where people go to see how the settlers lived. One of the things they do is give all the kids cream in a bottle so they can shake it and make butter. I hear it's a great place to spend the day.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

, how long do you have to shake it for. I cannot believe you can make butter by just shaking the cream!!

So do you think my blender is over working it??

Rose MariePLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

> If my milk is cold, I leave it out with the grains in it (new batch)

for a few hours and then put it in the fridge and WHAM it thickens up

and we're off and running. Not too sour, no bitterness, just good.

And I agree with you on the amount of grains. I know some recommend a

couple tablespoons per quart of milk, but for me I prefer more grains

as I think it kefirs faster.

>

> K.C.

KC, this is exactly what i do too. a few hours at room temp, then the

rest of the time in the fridge, and the next day, voila, kefir. i also

like more grains and it works faster.

laura

[Guest guest]

I don't understand that either. In my opinion, the milk would go bad by the time the cream rises. It really needs to be refrigerated to get a good rise on the cream. I can't see it rising faster then when in the fridge, but I wasn't going to argue the fact because I wouldn't do it like that.

K.C.

Re: Re: I over blended my butter

what do you mean "separate the cream at room temp."?

Because you have to frig the milk directly after milking. Do you mean you let the milk sit out after milking until the cream come to the top?

Rose MariePLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

You said the cream gets thick by leaving it out. Well, if the cream is thick it's because that's what the cow gives. Leaving it out really doesn't have much to do with that as Margie's cream is so thick, you can scoop it out and use it as butter right off the top of the milk. And, that's after it's been refrigerated.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

> what do you mean "separate the cream at room temp."?> Because you have to frig the milk directly after milking. Do you mean you let the milk sit out after milking until the cream come to the top?> Rose Marieyes, i think that's what they do but i'm not sure; i'll ask.it would make sense to not cool the milk after milking, but let the warm, freshly milked milk just sit and separate.i'll ask them, tho i think they might have told me that's what they do already, i just don't remember exactly.and i'll ask how long it takes to separate into the cream they want of the proper consistency.i have a sneaking suspicion, tho, knowing my farmer and how they don't like making butter, that because they consider it to be a pain in the neck, that they might let it sit too long before making the butter, hence the sour taste.i bet if they let it sit only long enough for the cream to sep. out and then immediately made the butter and fridged it, it wouldn't taste as 'bad'.lauraPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

> I don't understand that either. In my opinion, the milk would go

bad by the time the cream rises. It really needs to be refrigerated

to get a good rise on the cream. I can't see it rising faster then

when in the fridge, but I wasn't going to argue the fact because I

wouldn't do it like that.

>

> K.C.

KC, i understand what you are saying. but the farmer is adamant

about this; and they have been dairy farmers all their lives. and

someone else on this list said the amish farmers all do this, hence

the funky butter.

i'll ask them: say you milk the cows monday morning. you put the

cream to rise warm from the cow, right? then when do you sep. the

cream to make butter? monday night? tue. morning? and then when do

you make the butter? right away?

laura

p.s. and KC, i don't think the milk would go bad (and anyway we all

know it doesn't go bad, it just sours) that quickly, honestly. fresh

milk in costa rica, in the tropics, would stay on the counter all

day; they didn't fridge it til night, if there was any left. they

told me nothing fresh spoils within 24 hours.

i hate to say this, and i might get jumped all over for saying this,

but i think we're a little too paranoid in this country about food

spoiling. yes, i know, people have died, so maybe i'm way off, but i

accidently leave food out overnight all the time, see it in the oven

the next day, say 'darn, i forgot to put that away', then i eat it

anyway and i've never gotten sick. my sister thinks i'm certifiably

insane. maybe my gut is just really tolerant now.

laura

[Guest guest]

> You said the cream gets thick by leaving it out. Well, if the

cream is thick it's because that's what the cow gives. Leaving it

out really doesn't have much to do with that as Margie's cream is so

thick, you can scoop it out and use it as butter right off the top of

the milk. And, that's after it's been refrigerated.

>

> K.C.

KC, the farmer has been at this much, much longer than i have.

but how else to explain, when i tried to whip up what i sep. in the

fridge, it wouldn't whip into whipped cream, after 25 min,, yet when

i whip what the farmer sep. at room temp it whips up into whipped

cream right away? and yet they say they have ALWAYS sep. the cream

at room temp as it sep.'s better (thicker) and faster at room temp.

and the cream i buy from them is not in the LEAST sour!!

i know you find all this hard to believe; i'm just tellin' ya.

obviously you should keep doing whatever has been working for you.

i'm not telling anyone to change their ways, LOL!

[Guest guest]

Hi, Rose Marie

I shouldn’t

have said “thrown out” as if I throw it out. The last time I made

butter, I used the buttermilk to soak a roast for 3 days – the good

old-fashioned German way. Then I slow-roasted it. It was wonderful.

Nourishing Traditions has a similar recipe…can’t remember if they

recommend buttermilk or regular milk. Anyway, no, no, no, would never consider

tossing the buttermilk out. I use whey from kefir to soak our oats.

Buttermilk is another great idea. Thanks!

Sharon, NH

Thanks Sharon, very much!

But do you through away all the buttermilk, or is it whey?

That is really good stuff!

You can soak steel cut oats over night and when cooked in

the morning it is superb!!!

Thanks for the website!

Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

If I'm collecting cream to make butter, I put the milk in the fridge right away. The next day there is a good thick layer of cream that I scoop off. Sometimes I freeze it, sometimes I just put it in the fridge till I have more to make what I want, i.e butter, sour cream, etc.

I would not leave my milk out all day as I don't like sour milk unless I'm specifically making it that way for something else. I don't like it sour and I don't like my butter sour. Since you said their butter has a terrible taste, I would say that the reason is that the cream is sour by the time they make the butter.....especially if the weather is warm to hot. Now, I know some people call that "cultured", but not in my book.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butterKC, i understand what you are saying. but the farmer is adamant about this; and they have been dairy farmers all their lives. and someone else on this list said the amish farmers all do this, hence the funky butter.i'll ask them: say you milk the cows monday morning. you put the cream to rise warm from the cow, right? then when do you sep. the cream to make butter? monday night? tue. morning? and then when do you make the butter? right away?laurap.s. and KC, i don't think the milk would go bad (and anyway we all know it doesn't go bad, it just sours) that quickly, honestly. fresh milk in costa rica, in the tropics, would stay on the counter all day; they didn't fridge it til night, if there was any left. they told me nothing fresh spoils within 24 hours.i hate to say this, and i might get jumped all over for saying this, but i think we're a little too paranoid in this country about food spoiling. yes, i know, people have died, so maybe i'm way off, but i accidently leave food out overnight all the time, see it in the oven the next day, say 'darn, i forgot to put that away', then i eat it anyway and i've never gotten sick. my sister thinks i'm certifiably insane. maybe my gut is just really tolerant now.lauraPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

I realize what you are saying is what the farmer has done for years and years. All I'm saying is the cream is either thick or it isn't and the temperature shouldn't make a difference in the thickeness.

However, in your area it might make a difference is how the cream whips up into butter. Temps, humidity, room conditions, and as someone said, the different bacteria that are floating around could also have something to do with it.

We all have to do what is best for us, right? If you get butter, you are doing it right for you.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

> You said the cream gets thick by leaving it out. Well, if the cream is thick it's because that's what the cow gives. Leaving it out really doesn't have much to do with that as Margie's cream is so thick, you can scoop it out and use it as butter right off the top of the milk. And, that's after it's been refrigerated.> > K.C.KC, the farmer has been at this much, much longer than i have.but how else to explain, when i tried to whip up what i sep. in the fridge, it wouldn't whip into whipped cream, after 25 min,, yet when i whip what the farmer sep. at room temp it whips up into whipped cream right away? and yet they say they have ALWAYS sep. the cream at room temp as it sep.'s better (thicker) and faster at room temp. and the cream i buy from them is not in the LEAST sour!!i know you find all this hard to believe; i'm just tellin' ya.obviously you should keep doing whatever has been working for you. i'm not telling anyone to change their ways, LOL!PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

> If I'm collecting cream to make butter, I put the milk in the

fridge right away. The next day there is a good thick layer of cream

that I scoop off. Sometimes I freeze it, sometimes I just put it in

the fridge till I have more to make what I want, i.e butter, sour

cream, etc.

>

> I would not leave my milk out all day as I don't like sour milk

unless I'm specifically making it that way for something else. I

don't like it sour and I don't like my butter sour. Since you said

their butter has a terrible taste, I would say that the reason is

that the cream is sour by the time they make the

butter.....especially if the weather is warm to hot. Now, I know some

people call that " cultured " , but not in my book.

>

> K.C.

KC, what i don't understand is if they sep. at room temp then why is

the cream not sour?? only the butter is. the only thing i can think

of, is, it must not take that long for the cream to sep. out if the

milk is warm from the cow and then it sits at room temp. then they

put the cream right in the fridge.

but then they still need more room temp. time to make the butter, so

the butter does sit longer at room temp than the cream hence the sour

butter. yuck. plus i'm betting they procrastinate some before

making the butter since they don't like doing it, adding to the

sourness.

[Guest guest]

Or, they never refrigerate the cream and that's why the butter doesn't taste right to you.

K.C.

Re: I over blended my butter

> If I'm collecting cream to make butter, I put the milk in the fridge right away. The next day there is a good thick layer of cream that I scoop off. Sometimes I freeze it, sometimes I just put it in the fridge till I have more to make what I want, i.e butter, sour cream, etc.> > I would not leave my milk out all day as I don't like sour milk unless I'm specifically making it that way for something else. I don't like it sour and I don't like my butter sour. Since you said their butter has a terrible taste, I would say that the reason is that the cream is sour by the time they make the butter.....especially if the weather is warm to hot. Now, I know some people call that "cultured", but not in my book.> > K.C.KC, what i don't understand is if they sep. at room temp then why is the cream not sour?? only the butter is. the only thing i can think of, is, it must not take that long for the cream to sep. out if the milk is warm from the cow and then it sits at room temp. then they put the cream right in the fridge.but then they still need more room temp. time to make the butter, so the butter does sit longer at room temp than the cream hence the sour butter. yuck. plus i'm betting they procrastinate some before making the butter since they don't like doing it, adding to the sourness.PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sharon, that buttermilk soaked roast sounds great!!

I would guess that you are doing the soaking in the frig right?

When you take the whey out of your kefir, that would be the clear liquid, correct?

I usually leave that right in my kefir, if I take it out, does it diminish the quality of the kefir??

Thanks so much, Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

Some farmers run fresh milk (literally hot out of the cow - around 100 degrees) directly into the cream separator. This is how I usually do it too. It's only minutes from cow, through separator, into cream and skim milk, so there's no sitting around souring (for me 15-20 minutes from cow to separated and cooling in glass jars). I immediately chill/freeze cream, make sweet butter, or start already warm (above room temperature) cream culturing for later butter-making.

This butter isn't sour or cheesey, even after many days at room temperature on the kitchen counter (I also wash it as best as I can by hand, and lightly salt it). The cultured butter has a stronger, more complex flavor that isn't "off" or unpleasant. Milk sours faster than cream, so the longer cream remains part of the whole milk, the greater likelihood it will develop undesireable or "off" flavors. I've had some deliciously interesting "cheesey" butter from a farm that also makes blue cheese - it was absolutely wonderful on bread and with vegetables!

- robbie laurainnewjersey wrote:

> what do you mean "separate the cream at room temp."?> Because you have to frig the milk directly after milking. Do you mean you let the milk sit out after milking until the cream come to the top?> Rose Marieyes, i think that's what they do but i'm not sure; i'll ask.it would make sense to not cool the milk after milking, but let the warm, freshly milked milk just sit and separate.i'll ask them, tho i think they might have told me that's what they do already, i just don't remember exactly.and i'll ask how long it takes to separate into the cream they want of the proper consistency.i have a sneaking suspicion, tho, knowing my farmer and how they don't like making butter, that because they consider it to be a pain

in the neck, that they might let it sit too long before making the butter, hence the sour taste.i bet if they let it sit only long enough for the cream to sep. out and then immediately made the butter and fridged it, it wouldn't taste as 'bad'.laura

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[Guest guest]

> Some farmers run fresh milk (literally hot out of the cow - around

100 degrees) directly into the cream separator. This is how I usually

do it too. It's only minutes from cow, through separator, into cream

and skim milk, so there's no sitting around souring (for me 15-20

minutes from cow to separated and cooling in glass jars).

Robbie, if it only takes minutes to separate, i take it there's

something in the separator that mechanically separates it, like a

centrifuge or something? forgive my ignorance. otherwise it would

take hours, right?

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

Hi Rose Marie!

Yes –

marinate the roast in the fridge in the buttermilk.

The whey is the clear liquid. Do you have Sally Fallon’s “Nourishing

Traditions” book? I use the whey for everything – for pre-soaking

my oats the night before breakfast, for making sauerkraut, in home-made mayonnaise

to extend the “life”….

If you remove

the whey from the kefir, you end up with a thick cream-cheese substance. If everyone

grabs a spoon, it won’t last long. If you continue to drain it, like

I go my goat’s milk, you’ll end up with lovely goat cheese. It’s

wonderfully easy and amazingly good.

Sharon, NH

Thanks Sharon, that buttermilk

soaked roast sounds great!!

I would guess that you are doing the soaking in the frig

right?

When you take the whey out of your kefir, that would be the

clear liquid, correct?

I usually leave that right in my kefir, if I take it out,

does it diminish the quality of the kefir??

Thanks so much, Rose Marie

[Guest guest]

yes, a cream separator is a machine that mechanically separates the cream from milk. laurainnewjersey wrote:

> Some farmers run fresh milk (literally hot out of the cow - around 100 degrees) directly into the cream separator. This is how I usually do it too. It's only minutes from cow, through separator, into cream and skim milk, so there's no sitting around souring (for me 15-20 minutes from cow to separated and cooling in glass jars). Robbie, if it only takes minutes to separate, i take it there's something in the separator that mechanically separates it, like a centrifuge or something? forgive my ignorance. otherwise it would take hours, right?laura in njPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

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[Guest guest]

> yes, a cream separator is a machine that mechanically separates the

cream from milk.

>

Robbie, us city folk...

i thought a cream separator was just a container designed, so that when

the cream rises to the top, the skim milk on the bottom can just be

easily poured out leaving the cream.

i should have known, tho...i heard they're really expensive.

laura