Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

[Guest guest]

We are all well aware of inflation. However, you have to be aware of the fact that every area is different. Idaho is ranked lowest in pay whenever you see those scales in the papers. I can't ask these people to pay what they don't have or can't afford. I don't believe milk should be a luxury, but a staple they should be able to get for a reasonable price for themselves and their children.

This stuff about paying boarding fees slays me. If a person is paying a boarding fee, what is to prevent them from paying for a year and claiming the animal as their own? Legally, you can't pay a boarding fee for an animal you don't own. Or at least you shouldn't. Having a share of an animal doesn't, in my mind, constitute paying boarding fees. Looking at the legality of it, I think anyone can then say they paid X amount of money to board the animal and now they are taking it home.

Plus, there are people who get several gallons of milk per week to feed their many children. To limit people to the equivalent of one gallon a week when they have anywhere from 4-8 kids seems pretty petty. So for me to charge by the week and not the labor, seems out there in my opinion. Figuring it takes me about 30-45 minutes to milk out 4 gallons by hand, depending on how my hands are working that day, another 15 minutes to pour the milk through the filter laden strainer into the bottles, that is the equivalent to $12 per hour for the work. That's high for this area. The average pay is $6.50-$7 per hour here. So, this way I'm also paying for the washing of the bottles as well.

K.C.

Price versus value of REAL MILK

In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a Jersey cow, then 12 Canadian so-called "dollars" after that per week as a boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a gallon each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for the time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing, we don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80 cents US lately. When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3 per gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it away for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that are blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering momentum while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal extent. Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself. Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a duty to be careful with your capital because this communist system is hell-bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put yourself out of business ? Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers and see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really worth?Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled as "milk" on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is to educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK, versus factory-farmed dreck.When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as well as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay whatever's asked. Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor for a whole day, for a "penny". And that that 'penny' will only buy a loaf of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to be the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with reality, the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime. When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US per troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILKGordon , Burnaby British ColumbiaPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

With great respect for the work you are doing, you're not up to speed

on the big picture, or your price would be much higher, in

anticipation of what you'll need to care for your animals// yourself

in the next year, as the results of hidden inflation take hold. At $3

a gallon, you're shortchanging yourself and you'll be out of

business. For instance ; have you set aside the amount it will cost

you to replace your cow, when she wears out ? Or suddenly kicks the

bucket ? When the price of hay doubles because of the coming drought,

how will you cope with that?

If you want to run a charity, by all means do, as long as you admit

that the difference between what gourmet REAL MILK is worth, versus

what you get for it is a gift from you to those who drink it. You

are subsidizing " these people " . If they cannot extract from the

local economy enough to feed their children properly, is that your

problem? Maybe they ought to dig a little deeper to come up with

what " a staple " properly demands in a free market.

Are they educated about the value of what you're providing them, or

have you let them believe that you're " just a source of cheap milk " ?

Your 'reasoning' about the boarding fee/ share is incorrect. Please

re-read my explanation of how we're set up. That weekly fee goes to

the farmer for doing the milking, feeding and every other thing

involved in maintaining the cow,including paying a vet, etc.AND the

cost of the feed = all-in. We own her jointly by way of a share we

each buy in the asset ( the cow) for $40. After that, we pay weekly

to have someone look after her.

Now that she has the little milking machine going, the farmer is

delighted that things so promising she can get another couple of

cows, and stay on the farm and make more, net, than she would

commuting two hours a day into the " modern " city. What's wrong with

that?

Each cow-share is one out of twenty, total. So each share gets one

twentieth of the milk production for the week. Which at the moment is

working out to a gallon per share.

We have about fifty people on the waiting list just to get any milk

at all.

One of the themes of the RawDairy moovement is to remind people about

what the American way truly was, before Norman Lear and his pals came

along, perverting the nation's values. Getting ahead by honest

labor used to be an admirable thing, for the first few centuries of

American history. As long as you're doing something honest, why be

afraid of making too much money for all that effort ? Double your

price ... then if you find you have too much money, donate it to the

Weston A Price group.

_______________________________

> We are all well aware of inflation. However, you have to be aware

of the fact that every area is different. Idaho is ranked lowest in

pay whenever you see those scales in the papers. I can't ask these

people to pay what they don't have or can't afford. I don't believe

milk should be a luxury, but a staple they should be able to get for

a reasonable price for themselves and their children.

>

> This stuff about paying boarding fees slays me. If a person is

paying a boarding fee, what is to prevent them from paying for a year

and claiming the animal as their own? Legally, you can't pay a

boarding fee for an animal you don't own. Or at least you

shouldn't. Having a share of an animal doesn't, in my mind,

constitute paying boarding fees. Looking at the legality of it, I

think anyone can then say they paid X amount of money to board the

animal and now they are taking it home.

>

> Plus, there are people who get several gallons of milk per week to

feed their many children. To limit people to the equivalent of one

gallon a week when they have anywhere from 4-8 kids seems pretty

petty. So for me to charge by the week and not the labor, seems out

there in my opinion. Figuring it takes me about 30-45 minutes to

milk out 4 gallons by hand, depending on how my hands are working

that day, another 15 minutes to pour the milk through the filter

laden strainer into the bottles, that is the equivalent to $12 per

hour for the work. That's high for this area. The average pay is

$6.50-$7 per hour here. So, this way I'm also paying for the washing

of the bottles as well.

>

> K.C.

> Price versus value of REAL MILK

>

>

>

> In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a

Jersey

> cow, then 12 Canadian so-called " dollars " after that per week as

a

> boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a

gallon

> each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for

the

> time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing,

we

> don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80

cents

> US lately.

>

> When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3

per

> gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it

away

> for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that

are

> blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering

momentum

> while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal

extent.

> Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself.

>

> Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a

duty

> to be careful with your capital because this communist system is

hell-

> bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how

> much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put

yourself

> out of business ?

>

> Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers

and

> see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get

> that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really

> worth?

>

> Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with

> fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit

> competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is

> qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled

> as " milk " on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is

to

> educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK,

> versus factory-farmed dreck.

>

> When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as

well

> as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay

> whatever's asked.

>

> Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of

> government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a

> tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor

for a

> whole day, for a " penny " . And that that 'penny' will only buy a

loaf

> of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a

> silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to

be

> the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with

reality,

> the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime.

>

> When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US

per

> troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?

>

> For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILK

> Gordon , Burnaby British Columbia

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you don't seem to get what I'm doing or why. I'm about the only one in this area and possibly a good part of the state that has a cow share program. I'm doing this because I get way more milk then I need, even with making cheese and all the other wonderful products that one can make from heavenly Jersey milk.

I don't want to throw it out and I'm not as callus as you seem to think everyone should be about this. I feel honored that people enjoy the milk that Margie produces and I'm thrilled to be able to pass it on at a reasonable cost. If I had more cows and was making this my only business, maybe I would approach it differently. But, at this point in time, even with 9 or so shareholders, I still have way more milk then can be used. But, I won't sell more shares then what I can comfortably supply.

As far as the boarding thing, this is MY cow and she is under MY primary ownership and care and I would never charge others for her upkeep as they only have a share in her ownership. Just like if you were to own a share of a company, you wouldn't expect to pay the wages of the people who work there, clean the toilets or feed them and pay for their prescriptions. I still think that's a bit out there. That's like the person who owns it doesn't want to have to pay for anything that it takes for the animal's welbeing. Just wants to make the bucks from what it produces. Again, that's not why I'm doing this.

Everyone has their idea of what they want to do and why and I'm no different. I will agree that you have the right to pay or charge whatever you think is fair and I have the right to charge what I think is fair. For this area the $25 a share plus the $3 per gallon for my labor is what I consider fair to those who want to SHARE in the milk Margie gives. But, she is mine and I originally took on the responsibility for her care and well being and will retain that responsibility throughout her life.

However, if the people that are shareholders want milk throughout the winter and want to chip in on a small barn that I can keep warm for milking, it sure wouldn't hurt my feelings.

K.C.

Price versus value of REAL MILK> > > > In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a Jersey > cow, then 12 Canadian so-called "dollars" after that per week as a > boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a gallon > each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for the > time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing, we > don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80 cents > US lately. > > When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3 per > gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it away > for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that are > blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering momentum > while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal extent. > Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself. > > Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a duty > to be careful with your capital because this communist system is hell-> bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how > much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put yourself > out of business ? > > Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers and > see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get > that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really > worth?> > Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with > fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit > competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is > qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled > as "milk" on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is to > educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK, > versus factory-farmed dreck.> > When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as well > as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay > whatever's asked. > > Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of > government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a > tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor for a > whole day, for a "penny". And that that 'penny' will only buy a loaf > of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a > silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to be > the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with reality, > the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime. > > When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US per > troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?> > For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILK> Gordon , Burnaby British Columbia> > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

[Guest guest]

Additionally, since I have raised my price for labor over the years, I will continue to do so if grain and hay continue to rise and it will be up to the people if they want to continue to be shareholders. However, I'm certain that I will never go over $5 per gallon for labor and it will take some time to get to that amount.

Like I said, it depends on where you are and what people can afford. I'm just not going to do to people what this government thinks is necessary to weed out those who can't afford to live.

K.C.

Price versus value of REAL MILK> > > > In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a Jersey > cow, then 12 Canadian so-called "dollars" after that per week as a > boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a gallon > each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for the > time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing, we > don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80 cents > US lately. > > When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3 per > gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it away > for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that are > blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering momentum > while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal extent. > Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself. > > Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a duty > to be careful with your capital because this communist system is hell-> bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how > much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put yourself > out of business ? > > Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers and > see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get > that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really > worth?> > Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with > fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit > competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is > qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled > as "milk" on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is to > educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK, > versus factory-farmed dreck.> > When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as well > as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay > whatever's asked. > > Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of > government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a > tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor for a > whole day, for a "penny". And that that 'penny' will only buy a loaf > of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a > silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to be > the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with reality, > the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime. > > When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US per > troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?> > For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILK> Gordon , Burnaby British Columbia> > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

[Guest guest]

Gordon S. writes:

>you're not up to speed on the big picture, or your price

>would be much higher

I'm not convinced of that. In my opinion, a sustainable dairy *ought* to

be able to provide milk less expensively than a factory dairy. A factory

dairy typically uses expensive land suitable for intensive agriculture,

feeds expensive grains, uses expensive medications, must deal with waste

products expensive to remove, and deals with middlemen distributorships

who, having little competition, can pay little. A sustainable dairy ought

to be able to use less expensive land (thought not as rough as suitable for

goats), uses free grass from sustainable pasture, should need less

medication, and there are no waste products but valuable fertilizer, and

(very importantly) would frequently sell directly to the end consumer for

near retail price instead of getting only wholesale price from a

monopolistic distributorship.

The problem is that most " raw milk dairies " is that many of them would at

this moment still be in transition from factory mode to sustainable mode

and would not be getting the economies of " small-scale " .

On the other hand, Gordon is quite right in implying that many raw-milk

dairies do not have the same professional business orientation (meaning

many are hobbyists moving slowly toward a business) and may not have the

training in how to do cost-benefit and breakeven analyses factoring in

everything important, including reasonable labor costs, long-term costs,

and unanticipated events.

>One of the themes of the RawDairy moovement is to remind

>people about what the American way truly was, before Norman

>Lear and his pals came along, perverting the nation's values.

Uh, gee Gordon, not all of us share your religio-political ideology, and

some of us here may even think the world would not come to an end if

something else was practiced...such as cooperation as a higher moral good

and a greater emphasis on loving thy neighbor than on making a really good

profit off of them...

As for me, I might like to know how many raw milk producers on here have

the same professional business background as those who would operate a

factory farm type of dairy. (I might also have an interest springing from

my own religio-political ideology which is urging me to move away from

helping the Fortune 500 corporations to screw people toward helping real

live humans provide real food and real milk to other real live people in a

sustainable way.)

Tom

http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2016:13

http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%206:24

[Guest guest]

Price of Living is very different from place to place, and so is Fair Pricing.

"Gourmet" and "Value-added" is a big personal problem for me, because I know what it really means. This is Enron and WorldCom wall-street speak. I also hear echoes of 1980s Junk Bonds clanging in the background. Good educated people lost more than one well-paying jobs to this kind of Bull.... which are now overseas. Engineers and Chemists know what I'm talking about.

If you charged $7.50 per gallon in most of Ohio, you would have lots fewer customers, and I suppose more expensive Cheese sitting in freezers waiting for an eventual mark-down. Cleveland is the biggest poor city in the nation. Jobs are tenuous for many people, and school buildings are closing down very quickly all over because of state funding cutbacks. This sad "rust-belt" situation is slowly spreading to other parts of the country, possibly coming to a theatre near you... It's the Big $ Squeeze. For that we can also spend our dollars at Whole Foods and get nice music for our Organic trouble. For farmers here to be charging $1 per ounce of Colostrum is Gouging. The greedy did this with gasoline when the huge Power Grid went out back in August 2003... so much so that even the State investigated afterwards. Isn't Human Nature wonderful...? Everyone will then be saying how RawDairy and eating NT is just way too expensive, and is only for the Rich. That will be the end of this Local Farm Movement for sure. And that will make the FDA and state agencies very happy indeed. They don't want the extra work to regulate you anyway..... you're alot of expensive Political and Regulatory Trouble!

When you start charging Mark McAfee prices right off the farm, people's eyebrows get raised. Some consumers run businesses of their own, and know if you have to charge that much to "break even" you're doing something Wrong. Land prices and real estate taxes play a large role too. Gasoline prices are killing everybody right now. And if the feed prices keep rising.... you're gonna have to start something Local to solve this problem, and get Big Business out of your business.

I would think there is some sort of Formula that gives a "fair" price structure....? This one seems acceptable to most people.

Milk price== production costs

Cream== 4-5x depending on cream ratio (cow breed)

Colostrum== 2x

To make this easy on everybody... no farmer should be "responsible" for the milk containers....

This just puts an added and unnecessary burden on you. Consumers have to be accountable for that part, even if the buying club ends up paying for plastic throw-away gallon jugs that you fill for them. You may want to have a few courtesy containers hanging around, just to be neighborly to the newbies and the forgetful, but that's it. "Don't give away the good Tupperware" never to be seen again.

Mark stated when he gave his outstanding presentation to NE Ohio farmers....

"You can be Right, or you can stay alive..." to fight the Good Fight another day.

I'd much rather all the Dairy Farmers stay financially alive, so they can keep us alive too.

If you need some money help for an improvement project, most folks who buy your milk would gladly help out. Ask for Project Donations. School kids do it for their big field trips. Some of us know how to throw a fund-raiser too. We'd rather give it to you on an as-needed basis than have you jack up the milk prices out of sight, or get a bank loan with lousy terms. You don't have to write out a Prospectus either. Partner with us, rather than with the Devil.... This is the "It's a Wonderful Life" version of things, but .... I sure prefer it to Enron fantasies. Been there, done that badly already, so think Locally Unified Prosperity.

Just my extensive 2 cents worth.....

--Terry

----- Original Message -----

From: Tinybabe

Although WA is close to ID, we have a very different economy.

I totally sympathize with your situation. However, what you want to do is on a far larger scale of what I'm doing. I don't want to be a Grade A dairy and have to answer to the state. I like being a bit under the laws and still be able to be as legal as I can, doing what I do.

Besides, I've already been told that they WOULD NOT license me because I would be hurting the big dairies, if you can believe that. So why fight windmills when I know they will not buckle under to anything I want or pressure I put on them?

I'm certainly not hurting anyone here with what I charge because I'm the only one doing this right now. If someone else wants to have cow shares and charge more, that's up to them. But, they will have a hard time getting more for a gallon in this area.

K.C.

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie Higgins

>"Gordon S. " posted in response to KC:>>With great respect for the work you are doing, you're not up to speed>on the big picture, or your price would be much higher, ....>>If you want to run a charity, by all means do, as long as you admit>that the difference between what gourmet REAL MILK is worth, versus>what you get for it is a gift from you to those who drink it. You>are subsidizing "these people". If they cannot extract from the>local economy enough to feed their children properly, is that your>problem? Maybe they ought to dig a little deeper to come up with>what "a staple" properly demands in a free market.....

[Guest guest]

<A factory dairy typically uses expensive land suitable for intensive

agriculture, >

<A sustainable dairy ought to be able to use less expensive land

(thought not as rough as suitable for goats), uses free grass from

sustainable pasture, >

On this point I must disagree.

A factory dairy generally keeps cows in a dry lot, feeding expensive

grains.

A sustainable raw diary will need MORE land to effectively rotate the

pastures.

We are far from being a " sustainable " dairy. We currently have 5

Jerseys, two are in milk and three are pregnant. We just converted a

5-acre hayfield into additional pasture. We will need to sell one

(or two) of our cows so we will be able to maintain our pastures

effectively. In addition to the Jerseys, we have a beef steer and a

couple draft horses and a total of about 10 acres of pasture.

It has taken some talking to convince that it is all right to

charge folks for milk. I've adapted an attitude that if the Jerseys

(or other animals) don't turn a profit, they must go. I refuse to be

a " Hobby Farmer " , I won't " play " at farming. I need it to one day

replace my office job that is sustaining the family. The animals of

our farm currently pay for themselves, but they're not making the

mortgage payment! This year we are analyzing our costs and

determining what will stay and what will go. As much as I love my

heritage turkeys, they may all reside in the freezer come the

holidays. We live frugally and I see nothing wrong with charging a

fair price for our labor, feed and overhead. I'm sure I can charge

twice what I am and keep most of our customers, but I won't. What we

charge will probably rise this year though. With the price of gas sky

rocketing, we have added expenses not only in driving to get our

feed, but in the rising cost of feed & utilities also. We have our

own wells, but water is not exactly free, since 2 of the 3 are

electricity driven.

< If a person thinks this is easy, they need to get their own cow.

Then they must commit to being home at particular times morning and

evening, be prepared to deal with all problems, and there are many,

rain or shine, hot or cold, busy or not, no matter what else you want

to do, no vacation, no day off, sick or well. You will need to become

expert in fence building and repair, well and water line repair,

building repair and maintenance, cattle health indicators and non-

invasive, non chemical treatments and a host of other things. >

Thank you, Bill.

< People who sell raw milk for less than it costs to be sustainable

when done to meet regs are aiding and abetting the big factory farms

in destroying the ability of family farms to make a basic sustainable

living from selling raw milk.>

I don't know if I'd go this far but then I live in a state where I

can legally have gate sales. The cost to make us meet grade A regs

would put us off the farm financially. We are currently out of debt

except for the mortgage) and I don't want to be back in debt.

Cyndi

http://www.mullerslanefarm.com

[Guest guest]

At 11:02 AM 4/21/05 -0500, you wrote:

>Yes, and unfortunately today you have to hang on by the skin of your teeth

>until the factory farms trying to put you down are themselves wiped out by

>their own lack of foresight. In the future, transportation expenses will

>become overwhelming.

>

That's already happening. My dairy farmer recently had to raise his

prices by $2/gallon - due almost overwhelmingly to gas prices at the pump,

and packaging materials (plastic jugs - oil waste product; cost of

shipping the shipping boxes, etc.).

We had to raise standard prices at the garden center for the first time in

five years - again, due to shipping costs/fuel surcharges ... and those

plastic pots.

Just a little nonsensical factoid.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

[Guest guest]

key word of your argument being " wealth " In previous posts, you've

made it clear that you a charity, not a free-enterpriser. As long as

you're the only game in town, you can do what you want. But when

someone else starts up and trys to meet the demand for rawdairy,

you'll be the one the local cheapskates point to, saying " if she can

produce milk for $3 a gallon, you must be gouging. " as a way to bring

the price down to a level which is uneconomic.

Whole fresh raw milk is as basic an example of " wealth " as it gets in

this land of milk and honey. If you want to do it as a labour of

love, more power to you, but don't gainsay the motive of those who

have something different in mind = making a living at producing food.

_______________________________

> The thinking that an individual is enabling the mega dairies is

proposterous. That's the think the mega dairies want you to have.

If the Brown family can make a living selling raw milk, they should

be able to do it as they have years of experience in dairy farming.

>

> But, if the gal or guy in another county with only 3 cows wants to

sell their milk and can afford to do it for less, how is that hurting

the Browns or the mega dairies? I believe there are enough people

coming over to raw dairy, whether it is goat or cow milk to sustain

all sizes of operations.

>

> The way you are talking is what I heard from the Dept. of Ag and

that stiffles free enterprise. Someone with 3 cows or 9 goats isn't

going to hamper your operation, the Browns and certainly not the mega

dairies. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of milk is sold every

month throughout this country. What's wrong with spreading the

wealth around a bit?

>

> K.C.

[Guest guest]

Gordon: your reasoning may be true but it may not be also! the other,

theoretical people producing milk might decide that they could work with KC

and together the two could do a better job of supplying people;e!

Vona

Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

>

>

> key word of your argument being " wealth " In previous posts, you've

> made it clear that you a charity, not a free-enterpriser. As long as

> you're the only game in town, you can do what you want. But when

> someone else starts up and trys to meet the demand for rawdairy,

> you'll be the one the local cheapskates point to, saying " if she can

> produce milk for $3 a gallon, you must be gouging. " as a way to bring

> the price down to a level which is uneconomic.

>

> Whole fresh raw milk is as basic an example of " wealth " as it gets in

> this land of milk and honey. If you want to do it as a labour of

> love, more power to you, but don't gainsay the motive of those who

> have something different in mind = making a living at producing food.

> _______________________________

>

>

>

>> The thinking that an individual is enabling the mega dairies is

> proposterous. That's the think the mega dairies want you to have.

> If the Brown family can make a living selling raw milk, they should

> be able to do it as they have years of experience in dairy farming.

>>

>> But, if the gal or guy in another county with only 3 cows wants to

> sell their milk and can afford to do it for less, how is that hurting

> the Browns or the mega dairies? I believe there are enough people

> coming over to raw dairy, whether it is goat or cow milk to sustain

> all sizes of operations.

>>

>> The way you are talking is what I heard from the Dept. of Ag and

> that stiffles free enterprise. Someone with 3 cows or 9 goats isn't

> going to hamper your operation, the Browns and certainly not the mega

> dairies. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of milk is sold every

> month throughout this country. What's wrong with spreading the

> wealth around a bit?

>>

>> K.C.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gordon S. writes:

>you'll be the one the local cheapskates point to, saying

> " if she can produce milk for $3 a gallon, you must be gouging. "

>as a way to bring the price down to a level which is uneconomic.

Gee, sounds like Free-Market Capitalism to me. If for any reason at all

her costs of production are such that she can sell for $1 a gallon (or even

give it away for free as a byproduct of something else, such as " a labor of

love " ) even if no one else can match her price, then Capitalism tells us

she can do just that, and the world is a better place if she does. And if

she is making a mistake, then doesn't Capitalism tell us that we don't

protect folks from themselves? Won't that " Divine Hand " that regulates the

free market guarantee that whatever happens is what Providence ordained

ought to happen? Even if all our cows get outsourced by cows from India?

Gee, Gordon, you are sounding like one o' them thar " Protectionists " .

Tom

SD

[Guest guest]

Just BEAM on over - you cracked me up. Thanks for the giggle.

K.C.

Price versus value of REAL MILK> > > > In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a Jersey > cow, then 12 Canadian so-called "dollars" after that per week as a > boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a gallon > each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for the > time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing, we > don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80 cents > US lately. > > When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3 per > gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it away > for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that are > blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering momentum > while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal extent. > Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself. > > Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a duty > to be careful with your capital because this communist system is hell-> bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how > much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put yourself > out of business ? > > Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers and > see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get > that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really > worth?> > Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with > fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit > competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is > qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled > as "milk" on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is to > educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK, > versus factory-farmed dreck.> > When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as well > as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay > whatever's asked. > > Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of > government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a > tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor for a > whole day, for a "penny". And that that 'penny' will only buy a loaf > of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a > silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to be > the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with reality, > the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime. > > When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US per > troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?> > For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILK> Gordon , Burnaby British Columbia> > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

[Guest guest]

Any time KC!!

Vona

Price versus value of REAL MILK> > > > In Vancouver British Columbia, we pay $40 to buy a share of a Jersey > cow, then 12 Canadian so-called "dollars" after that per week as a > boarding fee. For that, each share gets a dividend of about a gallon > each week. That $12 weekly fee also includes the boarding fee for the > time in which the cow will be dry. When there's no milk flowing, we > don't pay because we paid ahead of time. The Cdn $ is about 80 cents > US lately. > > When I see on this forum raw milk changing hands for as low as $3 per > gallon, I shake my head. At prices like that, you are giving it away > for less than it really costs to produce. Farmers who do that are > blind to the rate of inflation, which is quietly gathering momentum > while those in authority lie debase the money to a criminal extent. > Under-charging, you are effectually stealing from yourself. > > Sure, you can do it as a labour of love, if you like. You have a duty > to be careful with your capital because this communist system is hell-> bent on taking it away from you any and every way it can. But how > much of a favour are you doing your 'customers' when you put yourself > out of business ? > > Like someone said ; stroll down the aisles of modern retailers and > see what people pay for stuff which is utter garbage. If they get > that kind of $$ for fake food, how much is the good stuff really > worth?> > Back in 1984, when we were breaking into the organics market with > fruit juices, the first big lesson we learned was to quit > competing with the non-organic stuff on price. REAL MILK is > qualitatively different than the P+h white fluid mis-labelled > as "milk" on store shelves. The task of the RawDairy movement is to > educate people to appreciate the difference between REAL MILK, > versus factory-farmed dreck.> > When they do 'get it' - that REAL MILK is a gourment product, as well > as a neutriceutical / functional food - they are happy to pay > whatever's asked. > > Because of the rank corruption at the very highest levels of > government, the real rate of inflation is about to hit us like a > tsunami. The Bible says that in those days a man will labor for a > whole day, for a "penny". And that that 'penny' will only buy a loaf > of bread. The 'penny' there referred-to was the Roman denarius, a > silver coin about the size of a modern dime. I am not happy to be > the bearer of bad news, but the sooner you get in touch with reality, > the better. You-all will see this in your lifetime. > > When silver hits $200 oz = no mis-print / two hundred dollars US per > troy ounce = how much will a gallon of REAL MILK be worth then ?> > For REAL ( Constitutional ) MONEY and REAL MILK> Gordon , Burnaby British Columbia> > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

[Guest guest]

I don't know why you guys are harping on Gordon so much.

He makes a good point.

I mean is it fair that Walmart puts all the neighboring business out

of business because it can? because it has the economic muscle to do

so? That's not right at all! Especially because in doing so, all the

jobs get sent to cheap labor countries and the wealth gets

concentrated to the few execs of Walmart.

I don't think Gordon is suggesting complete control of the economy by

the gov't, I think what he's getting at is that we should all be

working together to aid ourselves in sustainable agriculture. No

price gouging and no freebees. It all depends on the local economy.

There's a delicate balance that we need to maintain.

[Guest guest]

Bev,

$3.00 a liter works out to about $11 a gallon. Are you really getting

that much for your milk? Where are you?

Belinda

Amen KC!!!

Bravo to you and how you think. We too share your idea here at our

farm. We

charge a bit more than you do but our economy is as such that I am

forced to

charge more as Organic feed is double the price for conventional feeds.

We sell our goats or jersey milk for $3.00 a liter. This is

considered quite

low by most folks standards but that's ok it gives us the return we

need to

continue to get feed and hay for our cow and goats.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I came here 11.5 years ago from L.A., CA (actually was in Flagstaff 3 years before Idaho) and I know what happens with the so called Gourmet prices. It's what's going on right now with the "ARTISAN" cheeses. The prices are astronomical and only those certain people can afford them here in Idaho.

With regard to containers, I have to disagree with you here. The only time someone transferred milk from my contain to theirs is when I had a problem. I KNOW my containers are clean and contain no bacteria that would hurt anyone and no soap to change the flavor of the milk. Not everyone has a dishwasher and so I'm well aware of what can be left in bottles by some people. They look clean, but there are areas some people don't think about and that's where I look and work the hardest to clean.

Mind you, I'm not putting anyone down for their cleaning practices, but when the milk goes out in one of my containers, I don't even worry for a minute. The minute you start transferring milk to a person's container, you are running the risk of someone blaming you/your cow's milk for an illness or bad flavor or some other thing.

This is something I was thinking about for those states that allow sales of raw milk from the farm.....as long as it's in a container the buyer brings. I believe that's where you might get some of the so called food borne illnesses. You could be putting your clean milk into someone's container that isn't so clean.

K.C.

Re: Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

Price of Living is very different from place to place, and so is Fair Pricing.

"Gourmet" and "Value-added" is a big personal problem for me, because I know what it really means. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

I never said I am a charity. Someone else said that. I charge what the area will bring. Not gouging the people is all I'm doing....and not pricing myself out of the market. There may be others out there selling their milk. I'm the only one I know of with a cow share program.

Just because someone is the only game in town doesn't mean you have to be a greedy SOB about it.

K.C.

Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

key word of your argument being "wealth" In previous posts, you've made it clear that you a charity, not a free-enterpriser. As long as you're the only game in town, you can do what you want. But when someone else starts up and trys to meet the demand for rawdairy, you'll be the one the local cheapskates point to, saying "if she can produce milk for $3 a gallon, you must be gouging." as a way to bring the price down to a level which is uneconomic. Whole fresh raw milk is as basic an example of "wealth" as it gets in this land of milk and honey. If you want to do it as a labour of love, more power to you, but don't gainsay the motive of those who have something different in mind = making a living at producing food._______________________________> The thinking that an individual is enabling the mega dairies is proposterous. That's the think the mega dairies want you to have. If the Brown family can make a living selling raw milk, they should be able to do it as they have years of experience in dairy farming.> > But, if the gal or guy in another county with only 3 cows wants to sell their milk and can afford to do it for less, how is that hurting the Browns or the mega dairies? I believe there are enough people coming over to raw dairy, whether it is goat or cow milk to sustain all sizes of operations.> > The way you are talking is what I heard from the Dept. of Ag and that stiffles free enterprise. Someone with 3 cows or 9 goats isn't going to hamper your operation, the Browns and certainly not the mega dairies. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of milk is sold every month throughout this country. What's wrong with spreading the wealth around a bit?> > K.C.PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

I have to say that your words make me think of the gas pricing right now. Don't you think that if just one gas station operator in each county in the country decided to cut their prices, they would get the business and the big guys would have to bring down their prices in order to stay in competition. That's how it's supposed to work. Not the other way around. This has become such a ME society, no one remembers what good old competition is.

Like the old fashioned gas wars that would keep the pricing down, if milk prices are kept high the way you would like me to do just because there isn't anyone in this area selling it, am I not doing just what the mega dairies do? Right now, I'm right in tune with the pricing at the stores. Some people pay about $2.18 for a gallon of low fat milk from smaller dairies that sell to stores. But at Albertson's, Dairygold and the others are right about $3.00 for what they call whole milk. Yes, raw milk is much better, but people are bitching now about prices at the stores....I can't charge more right now and expect people to buy. These are hard times for the majority of people. Plus, I'm trying to stay under the radar. Don't need people remarking about pricing to someone who might want to drop a dime to the state or Feds.

I was brought up in a blue collar family and was taught to be honest, fair and above everything else, like myself. If I turned into one of those who gouge people just because they can, like Albertson's being the only store in town now, gouging everyone here, I sure as hell wouldn't think much of ME. That doesn't make me a charity, it's makes me feel comfortalbe with what I'm doing.

K.C.

Re: Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

Gordon S. writes:>you'll be the one the local cheapskates point to, saying>"if she can produce milk for $3 a gallon, you must be gouging.">as a way to bring the price down to a level which is uneconomic.Gee, sounds like Free-Market Capitalism to me. If for any reason at allher costs of production are such that she can sell for $1 a gallon (or evengive it away for free as a byproduct of something else, such as "a labor oflove") even if no one else can match her price, then Capitalism tells usshe can do just that, and the world is a better place if she does. And ifshe is making a mistake, then doesn't Capitalism tell us that we don'tprotect folks from themselves? Won't that "Divine Hand" that regulates thefree market guarantee that whatever happens is what Providence ordainedought to happen? Even if all our cows get outsourced by cows from India?Gee, Gordon, you are sounding like one o' them thar "Protectionists".TomSDPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

like Albertson's being the only store in town now, gouging everyone

K.C.

BTW, Albertson's is THE most expensive store in our town and it's not

the only store. I really don't know how they stay in business.

As for what you charge for milk, I think you are doing just fine for

you. I originally thought you were underpricing the milk. For you,

I don't think so now. You are being fair to those you are sharing

the milk with. And if you went into the whole cow thing for YOU,

then any monies you make is just gravy.

We are paying $5 a gallon for Guernsey milk. We are currently buying

3 gallons a week - was 2, with the other 1 for Mom, but she is off of

wheat, dairy and sugar for a few months. We decided to continue with

the 3 gallons since I can make some butter and cream cheese, whipped

cream for desserts (too many of them!) and my farmer doesn't sell

cream separate. So 3 gallons is worth the $15 a week we pay, just

for the wonderful things I can do with the extra cream. Along with

the 3 dozen eggs we buy each week we are over $80 a month just for

milk and eggs (ouch on our budget). So I know where you are coming

from. We don't have any younguns at home. I don't really know how

people are feeding their families. So as far as I'm concerned, you

are doing a wonderful thing to provide healthy milk for those

families fortunate enough to buy from you. My original thought was

that you were cheating yourself. But after reading through all the

posts in this thread, I've changed my mind. It's really no different

than the owner of the house we're living in. She could easily charge

us about $150 more than she is. But she doesn't need the money, this

house has nostalgic value to her, and we are great renters having

made this old house our home, inside and out. So what if the housing

market has gone sky high. She's decided that WE are worth the lesser

rent she's collecting. Hope she lives to 100! After all if we had

to pay $150 more a month for rent, we couldn't afford to buy on

wonderful raw milk.

Rhonda

cheering for K.C.!

[Guest guest]

YOu say that you do know what happens with the " so-called gourmet

prices " . Then you'll readily admit that there's about 1000 times

more organic cheese being made now, since people are getting what

they feel their labor is worth to produce them, than about 30 years

ago, when the great mass of American's couldn't name more than two

different kinds of cheese, one of which was " Cheezwhiz " .

And will you also admit that the artisanal cheeses - usually made

from raw milk - are much more nutritious than the plastic stuff

labelled " cheese product " , the baby boomers grew up on ? Point

being, it's amazing what happens in a genuinely free market. As

opposed to the Soviet centrally-dictated " marketing board " system.

I encourage members of this forum to read Sally Fallon's address to

the Acres convention, on the Acres website ; also on my little

website > www.freewebs.com/bovinity < She explains how " vulture

capitalism " is in its last stages. And she brilliantly makes the

connection between real = constitutional = money, and REAL MILK.

Gordon **************

> Yes, I came here 11.5 years ago from L.A., CA (actually was in

Flagstaff 3 years before Idaho) and I know what happens with the so

called Gourmet prices. It's what's going on right now with

the " ARTISAN " cheeses. The prices are astronomical and only those

certain people can afford them here in Idaho.

>

> With regard to containers, I have to disagree with you here. The

only time someone transferred milk from my contain to theirs is when

I had a problem. I KNOW my containers are clean and contain no

bacteria that would hurt anyone and no soap to change the flavor of

the milk. Not everyone has a dishwasher and so I'm well aware of

what can be left in bottles by some people. They look clean, but

there are areas some people don't think about and that's where I look

and work the hardest to clean.

>

> Mind you, I'm not putting anyone down for their cleaning practices,

but when the milk goes out in one of my containers, I don't even

worry for a minute. The minute you start transferring milk to a

person's container, you are running the risk of someone blaming

you/your cow's milk for an illness or bad flavor or some other thing.

>

> This is something I was thinking about for those states that allow

sales of raw milk from the farm.....as long as it's in a container

the buyer brings. I believe that's where you might get some of the

so called food borne illnesses. You could be putting your clean milk

into someone's container that isn't so clean.

>

> K.C.

>

>

> Re: Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

>

>

> Price of Living is very different from place to place, and so is

Fair Pricing.

> " Gourmet " and " Value-added " is a big personal problem for me,

because I know what it really means.

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Belinda,

Yes !!I really am getting that much money and my clients haven't a problem

at all paying that much for Organic goats milk. I live in Ontario, Canada.

Organic goats milk is a rare commodity in this area. If you go to our local

supermarkets they charge almost $6.00 a liter so my charging $3.00 a liter

to them is very low but to me is a fair price for what my costs are. I am

not out to gouge folks of their money either. Just a fair return for my milk

and my daughters time in milking the does.

We have some others in this area who are natural and not Organic who also

get a good price for their Goats milk as well.

One of our feed and meat clients go for a 40 minute drive to a town to an

Organic farmer who sells his milk to them at $1.50 a liter when he has extra

available to them so add on your gas prices and the $1.50 then you are not

saving much compared to my pricing, but he is traveling farther to get it

for a cheaper price he feels<LOL> He has now asked me to sell him a doe in

milk for their families needs. Will I do this? hmm not sure yet as I have

only 2 milking at this moment but 3 moms on their way here to me next week

who just had babies and are in milk.

Regards,

Bev

Miskin Meadows Farm

http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/Farm/farmindex.html

Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your kind words. It's not that I don't need the money, it's just the way the economy is here.

But, at $5 a gallon for what you are doing with it, that's not bad either. Figure what it would cost you if you had to buy cream in the store and pasteurized at that. Now figure what it would cost to buy the cheese and whatever else you are making with the milk. You are way ahead of the game.

It is very rare to hear that a landlord/landlady is more concerned with who is renting then what they are getting. Nice to know there are real people left in the world of renting their homes out and that they are not all just money grubbers.

Do you have garden areas there where you can grow some veggies and fruits?

K.C.

Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

like Albertson's being the only store in town now, gouging everyone K.C.BTW, Albertson's is THE most expensive store in our town and it's not the only store. I really don't know how they stay in business. As for what you charge for milk, I think you are doing just fine for you. I originally thought you were underpricing the milk. For you, I don't think so now. You are being fair to those you are sharing the milk with. And if you went into the whole cow thing for YOU, then any monies you make is just gravy.We are paying $5 a gallon for Guernsey milk. We are currently buying 3 gallons a week - was 2, with the other 1 for Mom, but she is off of wheat, dairy and sugar for a few months. We decided to continue with the 3 gallons since I can make some butter and cream cheese, whipped cream for desserts (too many of them!) and my farmer doesn't sell cream separate. So 3 gallons is worth the $15 a week we pay, just for the wonderful things I can do with the extra cream. Along with the 3 dozen eggs we buy each week we are over $80 a month just for milk and eggs (ouch on our budget). So I know where you are coming from. We don't have any younguns at home. I don't really know how people are feeding their families. So as far as I'm concerned, you are doing a wonderful thing to provide healthy milk for those families fortunate enough to buy from you. My original thought was that you were cheating yourself. But after reading through all the posts in this thread, I've changed my mind. It's really no different than the owner of the house we're living in. She could easily charge us about $150 more than she is. But she doesn't need the money, this house has nostalgic value to her, and we are great renters having made this old house our home, inside and out. So what if the housing market has gone sky high. She's decided that WE are worth the lesser rent she's collecting. Hope she lives to 100! After all if we had to pay $150 more a month for rent, we couldn't afford to buy on wonderful raw milk.Rhondacheering for K.C.!PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

> It is very rare to hear that a landlord/landlady is more concerned

with who is renting then what they are getting. Nice to know there

are real people left in the world of renting their homes out and that

they are not all just money grubbers.

K.C.

Our landlady is 73 years old, so I would imagine this gig will be up

one of these days. Her kids/grandkids will sell the property.

complete with the ole house.

>

> Do you have garden areas there where you can grow some veggies and

fruits?

Besides the *mandatory* tomatoes <grin> we've grown potatoes, squash,

onions, peppers, beans, cukes, etc. Just put in strawberries. We

have 3 container blueberry plants that produce nicely and bought 12

more blueberry plants last year. My favorite raw kefir smoothie is

made with strawberries and blueberries. Yumm And my favorite

dessert is fresh strawberries and raw whipped cream! This is living!

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Well, I was part of the largest Artisan Cheese group on Yahoo for a while and one thing is most of them do pasteurize their milk because in most states you still can't sell cheese from raw milk. And, two, they were snooty, snobby and I was not thrilled with their attitude. So, I left. They certainly did not share the interest in raw dairy as we do here. Mostly they thought their cheese didn't stink (wanted to say something else, but can't in public (LMAO). Third, I don't buy cheese, I make my own. Just wish I could make Jarlesberg. Love that stuff. But, my baby Swiss is getting better and better.

K.C.

Re: Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK> > > Price of Living is very different from place to place, and so is Fair Pricing.> "Gourmet" and "Value-added" is a big personal problem for me, because I know what it really means. > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>

[Guest guest]

Ever grow any melons? They are so much better out of the garden then the tasteless stuff you get in the stores.

I had blueberry plants and gave them to one of my shareholders because for whatever reason, I can't get them to grow. I love them, but just didn't want to kill two more this year. Hopefully, she can grow them and enjoy the fruit.

K.C.

Re: Price versus value of REAL MILK

> It is very rare to hear that a landlord/landlady is more concerned with who is renting then what they are getting. Nice to know there are real people left in the world of renting their homes out and that they are not all just money grubbers.K.C. Our landlady is 73 years old, so I would imagine this gig will be up one of these days. Her kids/grandkids will sell the property. complete with the ole house.> > Do you have garden areas there where you can grow some veggies and fruits?Besides the *mandatory* tomatoes <grin> we've grown potatoes, squash, onions, peppers, beans, cukes, etc. Just put in strawberries. We have 3 container blueberry plants that produce nicely and bought 12 more blueberry plants last year. My favorite raw kefir smoothie is made with strawberries and blueberries. Yumm And my favorite dessert is fresh strawberries and raw whipped cream! This is living!RhondaPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com