Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 My son rages when not getting his way ( such as not being able to do his OCD ritual). he will also rage at toher times but not being able to do something I know is OCD realted can set him off as well. > > > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > > and aggressive behaviors... ... > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > ine > > Houston, TX > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Nutrition > > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > > http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=DZbLFlARoFv DZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1B bA4AYJ8z0qI3qJ4l -x8EJAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SQwAAAAA= > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi ine, I too am confused as to the cause of my daughter's raging. She was treated for a mood disorder for 4 years before anyone suspected OCD. She has the intrusive thoughts, symmetry needs and organizing things. Being wasteful or wrong can escalate her. We certainly didn't notice any " over the top " OCD until puberty and at a point where we had her on an SSRI and we had also reduced her mood stabilizer. Then, all hell broke loose. Now, OCD seems to be the most obvious problem but the psych will respond " that's because I've done such a good job stabilizing the mood disorder " which could very well be true. How do you know? She's also very impulsive and has a difficult time with transitions. We are going to try straterra for ADHD symptoms. Sure is complicated. Is the ADHD impulsivity med induced? Is the aggression (much improved) due to OCD or mood disorder? We never could see mood cycles but were told they could be rapid in children and not noticed. Wish I knew because I'd love to have her on less medication. Abilify costs a fortune! On the other hand, I'd hate to have her become disregulated again. She will be starting high school next year and that can be stressful so I wouldn't want to upset the meds for that reason. Anyone have thoughts on what age I might consider cutting back? I know BJ always has good advice. Dorelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi Dorelle- My daughter has OCD with a dash of ADD (without the H). We went to a neurologist before she showed signs of OCD, and he put her on 500mg of DHA (we use the Nordic Naturals because it's strawberry flavored). The meds for ADHD and OCD do conflict a bit, but your doc should be able to find the right mix. Ask him first, but you might want to try the DHA to see if that doesn't help a little with focus, likely it can't hurt, but that's why I suggest speaking to your psych first. My daughter has never had to go on meds for her ADD, but has upped her DHA to 1000mg. Hope this helps. M Subject: Re: Raging To: Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 3:51 PM  Hi ine, I too am confused as to the cause of my daughter's raging. She was treated for a mood disorder for 4 years before anyone suspected OCD. She has the intrusive thoughts, symmetry needs and organizing things. Being wasteful or wrong can escalate her. We certainly didn't notice any " over the top " OCD until puberty and at a point where we had her on an SSRI and we had also reduced her mood stabilizer. Then, all hell broke loose. Now, OCD seems to be the most obvious problem but the psych will respond " that's because I've done such a good job stabilizing the mood disorder " which could very well be true. How do you know? She's also very impulsive and has a difficult time with transitions. We are going to try straterra for ADHD symptoms. Sure is complicated. Is the ADHD impulsivity med induced? Is the aggression (much improved) due to OCD or mood disorder? We never could see mood cycles but were told they could be rapid in children and not noticed. Wish I knew because I'd love to have her on less medication. Abilify costs a fortune! On the other hand, I'd hate to have her become disregulated again. She will be starting high school next year and that can be stressful so I wouldn't want to upset the meds for that reason. Anyone have thoughts on what age I might consider cutting back? I know BJ always has good advice. Dorelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi, Dorelle. We are actually in the same boat as you, with not knowing when it a good time to cut back on meds. When we did the first time with our son, it took 8 months before he relapsed and had to go back on medication. We chose to do it during the summer, when he didn't have any school, thinking that would be a good time to try it. That was when he was 13(?). He got through the summer okay, but relapsed a number of months later. He ended up missing half a school year because he relapsed so hard. Fortunately we homeschool, so were able to take that time off and concentrate on getting him back on his feet, making up the school work later. It takes time to taper down, then more time to see how they will react. It's hard to find a good time to potentially, (but hopefully not), upset their life. I would like to cut back on our son's meds now too, but he is in the midst of a lot of college preparation right now, and he will be in college next year. Don't want to rock the boat during all this, so feel the same as you about it not being a good time. You say that her OCD is the problem now. . .Is she doing any CBT/ERP therapy? If so, how is that going? Josh did well with getting the symmetry things and needing things to be organized under control with therapy. He still struggles with transitions. It's so hard to sort it all out sometimes, especially if they are dealing with more than one disorder like it sounds like your daughter is. BJ > > Hi ine, > > I too am confused as to the cause of my daughter's raging. She was treated for a mood disorder for 4 years before anyone suspected OCD. She has the intrusive thoughts, symmetry needs and organizing things. Being wasteful or wrong can escalate her. We certainly didn't notice any " over the top " OCD until puberty and at a point where we had her on an SSRI and we had also reduced her mood stabilizer. Then, all hell broke loose. Now, OCD seems to be the most obvious problem but the psych will respond " that's because I've done such a good job stabilizing the mood disorder " which could very well be true. How do you know? She's also very impulsive and has a difficult time with transitions. We are going to try straterra for ADHD symptoms. Sure is complicated. Is the ADHD impulsivity med induced? Is the aggression (much improved) due to OCD or mood disorder? We never could see mood cycles but were told they could be rapid in children and not noticed. Wish I knew because I'd love to have her on less medication. Abilify costs a fortune! On the other hand, I'd hate to have her become disregulated again. She will be starting high school next year and that can be stressful so I wouldn't want to upset the meds for that reason. Anyone have thoughts on what age I might consider cutting back? I know BJ always has good advice. > > Dorelle > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi, Dorelle. We are actually in the same boat as you, with not knowing when it a good time to cut back on meds. When we did the first time with our son, it took 8 months before he relapsed and had to go back on medication. We chose to do it during the summer, when he didn't have any school, thinking that would be a good time to try it. That was when he was 13(?). He got through the summer okay, but relapsed a number of months later. He ended up missing half a school year because he relapsed so hard. Fortunately we homeschool, so were able to take that time off and concentrate on getting him back on his feet, making up the school work later. It takes time to taper down, then more time to see how they will react. It's hard to find a good time to potentially, (but hopefully not), upset their life. I would like to cut back on our son's meds now too, but he is in the midst of a lot of college preparation right now, and he will be in college next year. Don't want to rock the boat during all this, so feel the same as you about it not being a good time. You say that her OCD is the problem now. . .Is she doing any CBT/ERP therapy? If so, how is that going? Josh did well with getting the symmetry things and needing things to be organized under control with therapy. He still struggles with transitions. It's so hard to sort it all out sometimes, especially if they are dealing with more than one disorder like it sounds like your daughter is. BJ > > Hi ine, > > I too am confused as to the cause of my daughter's raging. She was treated for a mood disorder for 4 years before anyone suspected OCD. She has the intrusive thoughts, symmetry needs and organizing things. Being wasteful or wrong can escalate her. We certainly didn't notice any " over the top " OCD until puberty and at a point where we had her on an SSRI and we had also reduced her mood stabilizer. Then, all hell broke loose. Now, OCD seems to be the most obvious problem but the psych will respond " that's because I've done such a good job stabilizing the mood disorder " which could very well be true. How do you know? She's also very impulsive and has a difficult time with transitions. We are going to try straterra for ADHD symptoms. Sure is complicated. Is the ADHD impulsivity med induced? Is the aggression (much improved) due to OCD or mood disorder? We never could see mood cycles but were told they could be rapid in children and not noticed. Wish I knew because I'd love to have her on less medication. Abilify costs a fortune! On the other hand, I'd hate to have her become disregulated again. She will be starting high school next year and that can be stressful so I wouldn't want to upset the meds for that reason. Anyone have thoughts on what age I might consider cutting back? I know BJ always has good advice. > > Dorelle > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Many kids with rage and various diagnosises have clear cut cognitive deficits in what is called executive function (attention, transitioning mindset, processing speed etc) and also sensory sensitivity. This kidos may rage like a kid with BP but may not have the clear cut cycle of manic/depression. They may not have gradiose ideas in a rage just anger. They may not have clear cut depression. They may not have the sleep issues BP kids have. Neuropsychological evaluations can detect concretely these kind of cognitive deficits. You may suspect this if your child is very disorganized, easily distracted, difficult to transition. If there are deficits this kids really need special services from the school to cope. When they don't get it they come home and rage at the family. Pam > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > and aggressive behaviors...... > > Thanks for any advice. > > ine > Houston, TX > ____________________________________________________________ > Nutrition > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Many kids with rage and various diagnosises have clear cut cognitive deficits in what is called executive function (attention, transitioning mindset, processing speed etc) and also sensory sensitivity. This kidos may rage like a kid with BP but may not have the clear cut cycle of manic/depression. They may not have gradiose ideas in a rage just anger. They may not have clear cut depression. They may not have the sleep issues BP kids have. Neuropsychological evaluations can detect concretely these kind of cognitive deficits. You may suspect this if your child is very disorganized, easily distracted, difficult to transition. If there are deficits this kids really need special services from the school to cope. When they don't get it they come home and rage at the family. Pam > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > and aggressive behaviors...... > > Thanks for any advice. > > ine > Houston, TX > ____________________________________________________________ > Nutrition > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Hi ine, My daughter suffered terrible rage attacks until she had gone through about 2 yrs of therapy. She has severe OCD and definitely Executive Function deficits. I have found that the rage attacks were almost always brought about when the intrusive thoughts became much too overwhelming to deal with, the rage was a release. For a long time it did seem like it happened when she didnt get her way, I think now that what she was wanting, maybe a new tot etc, was a way for her to escape the htoughts, a disctraction if you will, and when she did not get the relief she was seeking the rage took over. I know now that she could not control it and always felt bad afterwards. It is hard to know what to do in the moment, there really is no way I have found to stop the rage, only to do my best not to escalate it, give her some room and let things cool down. Melinda Tn > > > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > > and aggressive behaviors...... > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > ine > > Houston, TX > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Nutrition > > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Hi ine, My daughter suffered terrible rage attacks until she had gone through about 2 yrs of therapy. She has severe OCD and definitely Executive Function deficits. I have found that the rage attacks were almost always brought about when the intrusive thoughts became much too overwhelming to deal with, the rage was a release. For a long time it did seem like it happened when she didnt get her way, I think now that what she was wanting, maybe a new tot etc, was a way for her to escape the htoughts, a disctraction if you will, and when she did not get the relief she was seeking the rage took over. I know now that she could not control it and always felt bad afterwards. It is hard to know what to do in the moment, there really is no way I have found to stop the rage, only to do my best not to escalate it, give her some room and let things cool down. Melinda Tn > > > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > > and aggressive behaviors...... > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > ine > > Houston, TX > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Nutrition > > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 , I have experienced all of the same things with my dd, who is also doing much better. > > > > > Subject: Raging > > To: > > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 9:59 PM > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 > > year old son. He has had raging for > > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had > > thought and been told > > that those were manic episodes. However, we started > > seeing a new > > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is > > questioning the > > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and > > OCD? Is that common? How > > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've > > had damage to > > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, > > etc. Pretty severe > > and aggressive behaviors...... > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > ine > > Houston, TX > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Nutrition > > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Our list archives feature may be accessed at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group// > > by scrolling down to the archives calendar . Our links > > may be accessed at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group//links > > . Our files may be accessed at > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group//files > > . > > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D.(http://www.ocdawareness.com ), Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), and Dan Geller, M.D. ( > > http://www.massgeneral.org/doctors/doctor.aspx?ID=18068 > > ). You may ask a question of any of these mental health > > professionals by inserting the words " Ask Dr.(insert name) " > > in the subject line of a post to the list. Our list > > moderators are Castle, Judy Chabot, BJ Closner, and > > Barb Nesrallah. You may contact the moderators at -owner > > . Our group and related groups are listed at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ocdsupportgroups/links > > . IOCDF treatment providers list may be viewed at http://www.ocfoundation.info/treatment-providers-list.php > > . > > NLM-NIH Drug Information Portal may be viewed at > > http://druginfo.nlm.nih.gov/drugportal/drugportal.jsp?APPLICATION_NAME=drugporta\ l > > . IOCDF recommended reading list may be accessed at http://www.ocfoundation.org/Books.aspx . IOCDF > > glossary of terms may be accessed at http://www.ocfoundation.org/glossary.aspx > > . IOCDF membership link may be accessed at http://www.ocfoundation.net/membership/ . Drugs.com > > pill identification wizard may be accessed at http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php . Mayo Clinic > > Drug and Herb Index may be accessed at http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DrugHerbIndex > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 ine - I think I responded on another post. But yes, it sounds like my daughter to a Tee! Our kids brains don't seem to know how to process external stimulation normally, so they do all kinds of whacky things. My dd too was diagnosed as " bipolar like " and also ODD with her rages. Even though she isn't (or wasn't) bipolar, the psychiatrist still treated her with the same meds. So I would suggest trying some of the bipolar meds to see if that helps lessen things. Caution - the meds have lots of negative things with them, don't rememember them all. But our doc went with Abilify because it seemed to be the " easiest " one to tolerate. It worked well, took the rages down to about 50% and decreased their frequency. These are adult meds they are giving to kids, so remember - it's best to try Tylenol before Oxycodine! > > > > > > I'm new to the group. Have a 16 year old son. He has had raging for > > > years, often when he doesn't get his way. We had thought and been told > > > that those were manic episodes. However, we started seeing a new > > > psychologist who believes it is related to OCD and is questioning the > > > Bipolar diagnosis. Any thoughts on raging and OCD? Is that common? How > > > do we differentiate between mania and OCD rage? We've had damage to > > > walls, carpets, bed linen, tennis racquet, guitar, etc. Pretty severe > > > and aggressive behaviors...... > > > > > > Thanks for any advice. > > > > > > ine > > > Houston, TX > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Nutrition > > > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DZbLFlARoFvDZ1GWlLAthAAAJ1BbA4AYJ8\ z0qI3qJ4l-x8EJAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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