Re: perseveration / OCD problems & a Med. question

[Guest guest]

A related question: Does anyone know what the difference is between

Perseveration and OCD? My 15 year old Asperger daughter has been said to have

both. And, others have said that Perseveration and OCD is not the same thing.

I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Can anyone elaborate?

Some of 's symptoms: My daughter worries alot through out the day about

most everything! (She mostly thinks about her worries and verbalizes about it

sometimes to me.) She also picks her skin, nose, lips, etc. She's an all A

student and won't let herself even get a B+. These are some examples of 's

high stress - her Perseveration and OCD.

P.S. Meds haven't helped this at all. She currently is taking an SSRI (Prozac)

-shes tried many SSRIs with no help, Geodon, and Klonapin. What have others in

the group used for the stress and OCD symptoms?

Thanks for your help out there,

Irene

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[Guest guest]

Well I do not consider myself a weirdo and I will not

let myself get a B either. I am curently finishing my

degree and my husband gets so irritated that I will

accept no less than an A. I aim for 100% all the time,

but I realize that no one is 100% perfect, but I am

determined to do my best even if it means staying up

till 4am working on homework to get at least 90%. I

don't know, maybe that is weird, but to me you work as

hard as you can, and if you know you can get an A why

settle for anything less?

I don't pick my skin, but I do chew on my pinky finger

while I am working with my mind, ie reading, drawing,

using the computer and really thinking or

concentrating. I am told I also stick my tongue out

while I paint and draw, but have not noticed myself

doing it really.

I don't know the answer to your other questions, but I

think all of us have the right to push ourselves

toward doing our best.

As I was just saying that though my husband was

reading over my shoulder and said that he disagrees.

So I guess there is two sides to the story. To me I

think that if the goal is and A and is perfection than

why should we do anything less than what we know

inside is our very best.

But I guess as my husband and I were just debating

about this, he says that that is fine, except if it

becomes and obsession, to which at times I guess he

feels mine has. Where I stay up till 4am sometimes and

get mad at the kids and focus on it more than the

family or anything else. So I guess maybe you are

seeing some of these in your daughter and that is why

you want to help her not worry about A's so much, but

if it is not getting like this, than I guess I have a

hard time seeing the problem with the grades part.

Then again I know I am on the spectrum and maybe that

is one of my weaknesses too.

Hope this helped somewhat. Guess it is good to know

that it can irritate people that I like to get A's, my

hubby hadn't told me that before till just now. So

thanks for your e-mail that brought up this issue.

Esther

--- Irene Wise wrote:

> A related question: Does anyone know what the

> difference is between Perseveration and OCD? My 15

> year old Asperger daughter has been said to have

> both. And, others have said that Perseveration and

> OCD is not the same thing. I'm not sure what the

> difference is between the two. Can anyone elaborate?

> Some of 's symptoms: My daughter worries alot

> through out the day about most everything! (She

> mostly thinks about her worries and verbalizes about

> it sometimes to me.) She also picks her skin, nose,

> lips, etc. She's an all A student and won't let

> herself even get a B+. These are some examples of

> 's high stress - her Perseveration and OCD.

> P.S. Meds haven't helped this at all. She

> currently is taking an SSRI (Prozac) -shes tried

> many SSRIs with no help, Geodon, and Klonapin. What

> have others in the group used for the stress and OCD

> symptoms?

> Thanks for your help out there,

> Irene

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email

> and get things done faster.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/2006 7:02:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,

ireneijw@... writes:

A related question: Does anyone know what the difference is between

Perseveration and OCD? My 15 year old Asperger daughter has been said to have

both.

And, others have said that Perseveration and OCD is not the same thing. I'm

not sure what the difference is between the two. Can anyone elaborate?

Some of 's symptoms: My daughter worries alot through out the day about

most everything! (She mostly thinks about her worries and verbalizes about

it sometimes to me.) She also picks her skin, nose, lips, etc. She's an all A

student and won't let herself even get a B+. These are some examples of

's high stress - her Perseveration and OCD.

P.S. Meds haven't helped this at all. She currently is taking an SSRI

(Prozac) -shes tried many SSRIs with no help, Geodon, and Klonapin. What have

others in the group used for the stress and OCD symptoms?

Thanks for your help out there,

Irene

Hi Irene,

The anxiety/worry your daughter feels about most things in her life lead her

to try to control as much of what happens to herself as she can. She

worries about things, and most of them she can't control. So she makes up

things

she can control to make herself feel more in control of her life. When she

repeats an action, phrase, thought, over and over, she feels soothed because

she is in absolute control of how often or how exactly her ritual is performed

every time. The problem, the " disorder " comes when she begins to need that

soothing comfort so frequently or in such ways that they begin to interfere

with the quality of her life. If she absolutely needs, emotionally, for the

teacher to say the absolutely same thing when she walks in the classroom each

day or your daughter has an emotional collapse and can't function for the rest

of the class, then that is a perseveration.

So worry/anxiety causes OCD causes perseverations and so on in a vicious

circle. The more perseverations that occur, the more out of control she feels.

The more out of control she feels the more she feels the need to increase

her rituals and repetitive actions. The more she ritualizes, the less she can

achieve her soothing because it interferes with what is happening with other

people and reality.

Our daughter also picks at her skin. Then she picks at the scabs until they

bleed. She does this frequently throughout the day, and we have found no

way to help her stop. The best thing we have been able to do for our daughter

is keep her irritations to an absolute minimum. We don't aggravate her for a

messy room, is it worth the stress and increased ritualizing? We don't

critique her school work, she does that enough herself. We fill her day with

relaxation techniques like soothing music at night, a foot massager she likes

to

indulge after school.

Our daughter takes the SSRI Luvox (fluovoxamine). We have tried others, we

have tried going without. What we have found, is that she does worse on

other medications, and if we take her off it totally she suffers so horribly.

She isn't whole and well on the med, but off it her quality of life is so much

worse.

We work regularly to teach her stress reduction methods: music, deep tissue

massage, aromatherapy, exercise, equine psychotherapy, art therapy,

entertainment. We work really hard at those efforts! Puberty seems to be

amping up

the stress level as it approaches (our daughter is 11), and lately we've been

feeling as though we're sliding into a pit the harder we try, but we keep

hoping our efforts are going to bring her some comfort in the long run.

Good luck to your daughter, OCD is so difficult to live with. I wonder how

she would feel about seeing the TV show " Monk? " My daughter isn't old enough

to see it, I don't think, or I'd be really interested in seeing her reaction

to a character who represents how she deals with life's stresses.

Sandi (Allie's Mom)

Houston

[Guest guest]

My husband has OCD. He currently is taking Zoloft, but has been

through several SSRIs, some worked, some didn't, some worked for a

while and then stopped. He also takes a Super B vitamin complex and

fish oil, which I think are supposed to help with the anxiety...I

don't know if they really make a difference or not, but he thinks

they do.

My 3 year old also probably has OCD. We are seeing a lot of the

symptoms in him. Some things I do to help both of them is to try to

make things as predictable as possible. We don't do surprises here. I

try to let them both know what the plans for the day are the night

before or first thing in the morning, and then stick to it as much as

possible. We have a brand new baby now which has made it a little

more difficult, and my son's symptoms have definitely escalated in

the past 9 days since my daughter was born, but hopefully as we all

get used to our new routine it will get better again. Until I go back

to work and mess them all up again anyway, lol.

Routine and predictability are the most important thing with OCD I

think. Anything that causes unexpected change is an instant anxiety

trigger. Having written or visual schedules helps some kids. Since

your daughter is 15, she could probably create her own.

Hope that helps.

Amnesty

>

>

> In a message dated 10/27/2006 7:02:13 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> ireneijw@... writes:

>

> A related question: Does anyone know what the difference is

between

> Perseveration and OCD? My 15 year old Asperger daughter has been

said to have both.

> And, others have said that Perseveration and OCD is not the same

thing. I'm

> not sure what the difference is between the two. Can anyone

elaborate?

> Some of 's symptoms: My daughter worries alot through out the

day about

> most everything! (She mostly thinks about her worries and

verbalizes about

> it sometimes to me.) She also picks her skin, nose, lips, etc.

She's an all A

> student and won't let herself even get a B+. These are some

examples of

> 's high stress - her Perseveration and OCD.

> P.S. Meds haven't helped this at all. She currently is taking an

SSRI

> (Prozac) -shes tried many SSRIs with no help, Geodon, and

Klonapin. What have

> others in the group used for the stress and OCD symptoms?

> Thanks for your help out there,

> Irene

>

>

>

> Hi Irene,

>

> The anxiety/worry your daughter feels about most things in her life

lead her

> to try to control as much of what happens to herself as she can.

She

> worries about things, and most of them she can't control. So she

makes up things

> she can control to make herself feel more in control of her life.

When she

> repeats an action, phrase, thought, over and over, she feels

soothed because

> she is in absolute control of how often or how exactly her ritual

is performed

> every time. The problem, the " disorder " comes when she begins to

need that

> soothing comfort so frequently or in such ways that they begin to

interfere

> with the quality of her life. If she absolutely needs,

emotionally, for the

> teacher to say the absolutely same thing when she walks in the

classroom each

> day or your daughter has an emotional collapse and can't function

for the rest

> of the class, then that is a perseveration.

>

> So worry/anxiety causes OCD causes perseverations and so on in a

vicious

> circle. The more perseverations that occur, the more out of

control she feels.

> The more out of control she feels the more she feels the need to

increase

> her rituals and repetitive actions. The more she ritualizes, the

less she can

> achieve her soothing because it interferes with what is happening

with other

> people and reality.

>

> Our daughter also picks at her skin. Then she picks at the scabs

until they

> bleed. She does this frequently throughout the day, and we have

found no

> way to help her stop. The best thing we have been able to do for

our daughter

> is keep her irritations to an absolute minimum. We don't

aggravate her for a

> messy room, is it worth the stress and increased ritualizing? We

don't

> critique her school work, she does that enough herself. We fill

her day with

> relaxation techniques like soothing music at night, a foot

massager she likes to

> indulge after school.

>

> Our daughter takes the SSRI Luvox (fluovoxamine). We have tried

others, we

> have tried going without. What we have found, is that she does

worse on

> other medications, and if we take her off it totally she suffers

so horribly.

> She isn't whole and well on the med, but off it her quality of

life is so much

> worse.

>

> We work regularly to teach her stress reduction methods: music,

deep tissue

> massage, aromatherapy, exercise, equine psychotherapy, art

therapy,

> entertainment. We work really hard at those efforts! Puberty

seems to be amping up

> the stress level as it approaches (our daughter is 11), and lately

we've been

> feeling as though we're sliding into a pit the harder we try, but

we keep

> hoping our efforts are going to bring her some comfort in the long

run.

>

> Good luck to your daughter, OCD is so difficult to live with. I

wonder how

> she would feel about seeing the TV show " Monk? " My daughter isn't

old enough

> to see it, I don't think, or I'd be really interested in seeing

her reaction

> to a character who represents how she deals with life's stresses.

>

> Sandi (Allie's Mom)

> Houston

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/30/2006 2:09:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,

amnestyb@... writes:

Some things I do to help both of them is to try to

make things as predictable as possible. We don't do surprises here. I

try to let them both know what the plans for the day are the night

before or first thing in the morning, and then stick to it as much as

possible.

Oh wow, Amnesty I forgot that. I guess that after a while we've been doing

some things for so long they just become automatic ...

My daughter always has her " What are we doing tomorrow? " session at bedtime.

It's been part of her bedtime ritual for years.

For daily activities, she used to have big PECS schedules I made at

Do2Learn.com when she was little. Now she has reduced that to schedules with

words

and tiny icons at school, and typed word schedules here at home, but she likes

to have them in some form.

We have always had a calendar in her room, too. It is filled with all the

things she wants to know about, pizza night, birthdays, dance classes. This

week she told me she wants to keep a daily planner like mine, so I'm going to

take her shopping to pick one out.

Sandi (Allie's Mom)

Houston

[Guest guest]

I too am on the spectrum and had difficulty in school with getting

anything less than an A. This thinking carries over into many areas

in life. As I got older, I recognized how this type of thinking can

have a negative impact. For example, if I have 20 minutes available

to clean the kitchen and know it cannot be done in such a short

period of time, I will not start it. I could not handle falling

short of finishing. The end result is I never find that magical

block of time and therefore the kitchen never gets clean. Not good.

I work as an accountant. Most jobs I have had, the quantity of work

is greater than 40 hours of work. This was a major struggle for me.

I had such a hard time going home knowing I didn't get everything

done. I have learned to force myself to accept less than perfection

and understand what is good enough. I have learned to take short-

cuts and accept estimations instead of exact answers out of

necessity. It is not easy but necessary.

I recently watched to DVD for RDI therapy. I found it interesting

that one of the stages of RDI is to do activities where the child has

to learn to accept " good enough " . I always thought of myself as a

perfectionist and never realized before then that this difficulty

accepting less than perfection was a spectrum issue. Seeking

perfection is a good trait but there needs to be balance in life

where sometimes accepting " good enough " is better when rigidity could

affect our relationships or jobs.

>

> > A related question: Does anyone know what the

> > difference is between Perseveration and OCD? My 15

> > year old Asperger daughter has been said to have

> > both. And, others have said that Perseveration and

> > OCD is not the same thing. I'm not sure what the

> > difference is between the two. Can anyone elaborate?

> > Some of 's symptoms: My daughter worries alot

> > through out the day about most everything! (She

> > mostly thinks about her worries and verbalizes about

> > it sometimes to me.) She also picks her skin, nose,

> > lips, etc. She's an all A student and won't let

> > herself even get a B+. These are some examples of

> > 's high stress - her Perseveration and OCD.

> > P.S. Meds haven't helped this at all. She

> > currently is taking an SSRI (Prozac) -shes tried

> > many SSRIs with no help, Geodon, and Klonapin. What

> > have others in the group used for the stress and OCD

> > symptoms?

> > Thanks for your help out there,

> > Irene

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email

> > and get things done faster.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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____________________

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>

[Guest guest]

Amnesty, it will calm down! I remember when Allie was born I thought

Jess would never adjust, and she was about the best-behaved 2 yr old

you'd ever know. It seems like it took a good 2 months before she

found her place as big sister instead of only child.

HTH,

Debi