Re: Question For Autistic Members

[Guest guest]

I don't flap my hands - I have other odd things I do, such as rocking or

clearing my throat, but my best friend who is autistic does it. He's 43 and

even though it is a little unusual it doesn't bother his friends and family.

Maybe it bothers strangers but does that really matter so much? He is a

musician and artist so he can also express himself that way. He is also a

self-sufficient person now.

I don't think you should make her stop. It is a balancing mechansim. It

seems to me that my friend is releasing pent-up energy when he does it.

Some people don't think of energy as a real substance, they think of it as

thoughts or emotions, but it is real like electricity. As you wrote, she

does it when she is happy or excited or overwhelmed, but not when she is mad

or sad, which are low energy. You would think that Mad would be high energy

but in fact it is cramped up. If it was anger and was in motion being

expressed it would be high energy. The energy of happy, excited or

overwhelmed tend to be about experiencing NEW things, which cannot be

processed quickly, and so the energy is unorganized and flapping helps it to

be organized and also, to let some of the intensity be expressed.

Most 'normal people' have other ways of processing experiences. Often they

diffuse an experience by naming it even if the name may not be quite right

or even true. Giving it a name allows them to move some of the intensity

outside to the thing or person which is upsetting them or putting them off

balance. Such as saying to themselves that someone who is upsetting them is

wrong, or that there probably won't be that much trouble from the storm.

Perhaps if your daughter had some other ways to express herself or her

feelings freely during her regular days - like dancing or making noise/music

or doing art with clay or paint - that might help her learn other ways to

express herself and release energy. I know that swinging on swings can also

be extremely helpful. They have swings you can get for in the house that go

in a doorway. Or get the outside kind or go to a park. I love to swing and

it helps me very much if I am upset about anything. In a movie situation

you could try asking her to swing her feet instead of flapping her hands.

Good luck. Anastasia

>

> Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:32:17 -0000

> To: Autism_in_Girls

> Subject: Question For Autistic Members

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but 's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism. She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10, it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

> ------------------------

> Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

>

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your answer Anastasia, and yes, she loves to swing. She'd do

it for hours if she could.

Diane ('s Mom)

Question For Autistic Members

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but 's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism. She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10, it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

> ------------------------

> Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

>

[Guest guest]

Hand flapping comes tome when strong emotional feelings are surging,

happy, excited, stimmy over seeing things that bring me happy. it is

usually expressed in very happy feelings within me. It is rare for

me to do them now but I to find self sticking legs out when sitting

when happy now as they just come out stiff and odd and I to do more

of a finger flapping and or crossing the fingers and flicking the

chin with them I to also have strong habit of holding face with my

palms upside down as if closing off my ears this is usually

expressed when somethings instead is annoying me or causing me a

negative feeling. twisting of my hands tends to come when anxiety is

high or emotions coming that i to not be to read or understand or

have names to are often expressed as a negative emotion. Sometimes

too though can feel too much happy almost pervaisvely happy and it

will trigger agitation and or aggresion which some might interpret

ofme as being upset or angry butnot just too much emotion and lack

what to do with it or interpret the feeling it brings in good

balance. that is why some kids with autism who are happy might be

happy and then bite or pinch you. we to feel emitons within us

sometimes pervasively but lack what it is we are feeling by name or

how to regulate and or balance that emotions.

Sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " ds2400 " wrote:

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps

her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but

's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism.

She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't

flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10,

it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give

her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing

replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are

flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

[Guest guest]

Anastatia, I to should be to have finished reading before to posted

you shared the same words as I to just sended. I to be to think yiou

did a much great job of sharing and expressing it.

Sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " Anastasia E. OMelveny "

wrote:

>

> I don't flap my hands - I have other odd things I do, such as

rocking or

> clearing my throat, but my best friend who is autistic does it.

He's 43 and

> even though it is a little unusual it doesn't bother his friends

and family.

> Maybe it bothers strangers but does that really matter so much?

He is a

> musician and artist so he can also express himself that way. He

is also a

> self-sufficient person now.

>

> I don't think you should make her stop. It is a balancing

mechansim. It

> seems to me that my friend is releasing pent-up energy when he

does it.

> Some people don't think of energy as a real substance, they think

of it as

> thoughts or emotions, but it is real like electricity. As you

wrote, she

> does it when she is happy or excited or overwhelmed, but not when

she is mad

> or sad, which are low energy. You would think that Mad would be

high energy

> but in fact it is cramped up. If it was anger and was in motion

being

> expressed it would be high energy. The energy of happy, excited

or

> overwhelmed tend to be about experiencing NEW things, which cannot

be

> processed quickly, and so the energy is unorganized and flapping

helps it to

> be organized and also, to let some of the intensity be expressed.

>

> Most 'normal people' have other ways of processing experiences.

Often they

> diffuse an experience by naming it even if the name may not be

quite right

> or even true. Giving it a name allows them to move some of the

intensity

> outside to the thing or person which is upsetting them or putting

them off

> balance. Such as saying to themselves that someone who is

upsetting them is

> wrong, or that there probably won't be that much trouble from the

storm.

>

> Perhaps if your daughter had some other ways to express herself or

her

> feelings freely during her regular days - like dancing or making

noise/music

> or doing art with clay or paint - that might help her learn other

ways to

> express herself and release energy. I know that swinging on

swings can also

> be extremely helpful. They have swings you can get for in the

house that go

> in a doorway. Or get the outside kind or go to a park. I love to

swing and

> it helps me very much if I am upset about anything. In a movie

situation

> you could try asking her to swing her feet instead of flapping her

hands.

> Good luck. Anastasia

>

>

> >

> > Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

> > Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:32:17 -0000

> > To: Autism_in_Girls

> > Subject: Question For Autistic Members

> >

> > Kassi, Sondra or ,

> >

> > Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter

flaps her

> > hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but

's

> > major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> > wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

serve.

> > All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism.

She

> > flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't

flap

> > when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

sit

> > on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

movies)

> > and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's

10, it's

> > much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to

give her

> > an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing

replaces

> > flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are

flapping

> > literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

really

> > feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Diane ('s Mom)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

> > ------------------------

> > Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

I know that you did not address this question to me,

but I have a few insights on this topic as well so I

thought I would share. My daughter flaps her hands a

lot and her teachers are always wanting me to stop

her. The thing is, I don't see a problem with it, so I

ignore them. Yes she is almost 5 and it looks a little

odd to others, but the top American idol contestants,

both of them I have noticed both Hicks and

McPhee flap there hands, and the whole world

doesn't seem to mind when they do it, infact they have

over 50million votes from people supporting them. I am

not saying that they are my idols, I am just saying

that I saw that show on TV the other day and noticed

that the girl flaps her hands all the time

and people just think she is cutesy, and the guy

, doesn't actually flap his hands, but he claps

his side when he is excited and he scrunches up his

hand into a fist and pulls it into himself while he is

singing and really trying to express himself. These

things are ways of expressing your emotions.

I have been teaching myself and my daughters sign

language with these videos called Signing time (which

are great by the way) and I noticed that the sign for

Excited actually is pretty much the same as my one

daughters hand flapping. You take your middle finger

and brush it very gently up and down quickly on the

sides of your chest infront of you and when done by

the teacher in the movie, looks almost exactly how my

daughter Chantelle's hand flapping is.

We are always wanting our kids to express themselves

and tell us how they feel and then people tell us to

tell them No and then we think we should trust them or

do what they say for our kids to be normal and trying

to be good parents we try and stop the very expression

of emotion that we asked them to share with us. So I

honestly think that we need to be careful not to

contradict ourselvs, or our children will become very

confused with us and begrudge us. Never knowing what

we want.

I know that personally I have a lot of nervouse

habits, if you will. I chew pencils, I bite my

fingernails, I twist my hair (it is very long, just

the ends of it), I tap my foot or a pencil on the

table, I scrath my arms, I make clicking sounds with

my tongue, I wiggle around a lot when I am trying to

sit still too long or when I am excited. I sing, I

like to spin in office chairs, I laugh when I am

nervouse or at the wrong time and make people mad,

when I don't mean to. I have even laughed when people

get hurt, even when I don't think it is funny, I just

laugh, I don't know exactly why, and they really don't

like that. I honestly don't know if I am Autistic or

not, I have never been evaluated by anyone and my

parents homeschooled me, so nobody at school ever

evaluated me either, but I know that I very much

relate to a lot of things that Sondra says and a lot

of the things that my daughters and your daughters do.

However, nobody really has a problem with me, I have a

lot of friends and sometimes they tell me " Your so

weird " and I laugh and then we are still friends, or

they say " Stop it, you are irritating me " and

sometimes I will do it even more really fast just to

joke with them and then I will stop till nobody is

around. But honestly, a lot of guys thought that the

stuff I did was cutesy when I was a teenager and my

husband still thinks it is funny to make me nervouse

or mad or excited and then he laughs at the dorky

things I do. So it doesn't really matter, somebody

will love your daughter in spite of the handflapping

and just teach her to have confidence and stand up for

herself and to laugh at herself and I think she will

be fine and do a lot better than she would if she must

supress her feelings.

People always say " Pick your battles " and I think the

battles that would be more important would be things

like helping your daughter not drool and spit when she

is upset at you (I am talking about my daughter) but

that is a lot groser and a thing that will bother

pretty much anyone, including me (if your child can

help it, like mine). Worry about the other things and

let her show some joy and emotion you could even try

it too and see if it makes you feel better too. I know

it sounds silly, but sometimes when Chantelle gets

really excited I flap my hands along with her and

laugh and we have fun and then she gives me a big hug,

because she knows that I am acknowledging her

excitement. It actually gives you energy and a little

boost or kick or whatever you want to call it and

makes you smile (which gives you endorphins and

feelings of joy).

So you don't have to take my advice, I am no genious,

but it works for us and makes my daughter happier. My

mom forever tried to stop my little habbits and to an

extent I begrudge her a little for it, because she

never shows emotion and never seems happy, so we don't

have much of a good relationship. Until really

recently actually and now she actually is learning

from having long distance grandkids that it is ok to

be excited and silly and dorky and " who cares? " will

we ever see those people at the theater again. Why

should they own the world and what we can or can't do?

Anyhow, there is my feelings on it. Hope it helps.

Sincerely, Esther

> > > Kassi, Sondra or ,

> > >

> > > Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when

> my daughter

> flaps her

> > > hands? I know this might seem like a silly

> question but

> 's

> > > major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand

> flapping. I was

> > > wondering how this must feel for her and what

> purpose it might

> serve.

> > > All I've read and been told just says its a

> calming mechanism.

> She

> > > flaps when she's happy or excited or

> overwhelmed. She doesn't

> flap

> > > when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her

> hands together or

> sit

> > > on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers

> others (the

> movies)

> > > and she can comply but only for a few minutes.

> Now that she's

> 10, it's

> > > much more obvious to others. I've tried

> everything I know to

> give her

> > > an alternative that's more socially acceptable

> but nothing

> replaces

> > > flapping for long. Some times it seems like her

> hands are

> flapping

> > > literally all day long. This got me to

> wondering what it might

> really

> > > feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Diane ('s Mom)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I just remembered when Allie was first dxed would flap her

hands, too. It was like she was doing it to be like Allie. I feel bad

now because I remember telling to stop. It wasn't that I was

not wanting Jess or Allie to look the part, it was that I would feel

panicked that was regressing. Lol. I actually like it when

Allie flaps, that means she's happy. I like to see her happy. And now

when does it I think it's cute. Of course, she's 9 now and not

3 1/2 like then.

Debi

[Guest guest]

AMEN< wow I am going to watch them tonight to see them do it. Thanks!!

Bridget

Re: Re: Question For Autistic Members

Hi Diane,

I know that you did not address this question to me,

but I have a few insights on this topic as well so I

thought I would share. My daughter flaps her hands a

lot and her teachers are always wanting me to stop

her. The thing is, I don't see a problem with it, so I

ignore them. Yes she is almost 5 and it looks a little

odd to others, but the top American idol contestants,

both of them I have noticed both Hicks and

McPhee flap there hands, and the whole world

doesn't seem to mind when they do it, infact they have

over 50million votes from people supporting them. I am

not saying that they are my idols, I am just saying

that I saw that show on TV the other day and noticed

that the girl flaps her hands all the time

and people just think she is cutesy, and the guy

, doesn't actually flap his hands, but he claps

his side when he is excited and he scrunches up his

hand into a fist and pulls it into himself while he is

singing and really trying to express himself. These

things are ways of expressing your emotions.

I have been teaching myself and my daughters sign

language with these videos called Signing time (which

are great by the way) and I noticed that the sign for

Excited actually is pretty much the same as my one

daughters hand flapping. You take your middle finger

and brush it very gently up and down quickly on the

sides of your chest infront of you and when done by

the teacher in the movie, looks almost exactly how my

daughter Chantelle's hand flapping is.

We are always wanting our kids to express themselves

and tell us how they feel and then people tell us to

tell them No and then we think we should trust them or

do what they say for our kids to be normal and trying

to be good parents we try and stop the very expression

of emotion that we asked them to share with us. So I

honestly think that we need to be careful not to

contradict ourselvs, or our children will become very

confused with us and begrudge us. Never knowing what

we want.

I know that personally I have a lot of nervouse

habits, if you will. I chew pencils, I bite my

fingernails, I twist my hair (it is very long, just

the ends of it), I tap my foot or a pencil on the

table, I scrath my arms, I make clicking sounds with

my tongue, I wiggle around a lot when I am trying to

sit still too long or when I am excited. I sing, I

like to spin in office chairs, I laugh when I am

nervouse or at the wrong time and make people mad,

when I don't mean to. I have even laughed when people

get hurt, even when I don't think it is funny, I just

laugh, I don't know exactly why, and they really don't

like that. I honestly don't know if I am Autistic or

not, I have never been evaluated by anyone and my

parents homeschooled me, so nobody at school ever

evaluated me either, but I know that I very much

relate to a lot of things that Sondra says and a lot

of the things that my daughters and your daughters do.

However, nobody really has a problem with me, I have a

lot of friends and sometimes they tell me " Your so

weird " and I laugh and then we are still friends, or

they say " Stop it, you are irritating me " and

sometimes I will do it even more really fast just to

joke with them and then I will stop till nobody is

around. But honestly, a lot of guys thought that the

stuff I did was cutesy when I was a teenager and my

husband still thinks it is funny to make me nervouse

or mad or excited and then he laughs at the dorky

things I do. So it doesn't really matter, somebody

will love your daughter in spite of the handflapping

and just teach her to have confidence and stand up for

herself and to laugh at herself and I think she will

be fine and do a lot better than she would if she must

supress her feelings.

People always say " Pick your battles " and I think the

battles that would be more important would be things

like helping your daughter not drool and spit when she

is upset at you (I am talking about my daughter) but

that is a lot groser and a thing that will bother

pretty much anyone, including me (if your child can

help it, like mine). Worry about the other things and

let her show some joy and emotion you could even try

it too and see if it makes you feel better too. I know

it sounds silly, but sometimes when Chantelle gets

really excited I flap my hands along with her and

laugh and we have fun and then she gives me a big hug,

because she knows that I am acknowledging her

excitement. It actually gives you energy and a little

boost or kick or whatever you want to call it and

makes you smile (which gives you endorphins and

feelings of joy).

So you don't have to take my advice, I am no genious,

but it works for us and makes my daughter happier. My

mom forever tried to stop my little habbits and to an

extent I begrudge her a little for it, because she

never shows emotion and never seems happy, so we don't

have much of a good relationship. Until really

recently actually and now she actually is learning

from having long distance grandkids that it is ok to

be excited and silly and dorky and " who cares? " will

we ever see those people at the theater again. Why

should they own the world and what we can or can't do?

Anyhow, there is my feelings on it. Hope it helps.

Sincerely, Esther

> > > Kassi, Sondra or ,

> > >

> > > Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when

> my daughter

> flaps her

> > > hands? I know this might seem like a silly

> question but

> 's

> > > major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand

> flapping. I was

> > > wondering how this must feel for her and what

> purpose it might

> serve.

> > > All I've read and been told just says its a

> calming mechanism.

> She

> > > flaps when she's happy or excited or

> overwhelmed. She doesn't

> flap

> > > when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her

> hands together or

> sit

> > > on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers

> others (the

> movies)

> > > and she can comply but only for a few minutes.

> Now that she's

> 10, it's

> > > much more obvious to others. I've tried

> everything I know to

> give her

> > > an alternative that's more socially acceptable

> but nothing

> replaces

> > > flapping for long. Some times it seems like her

> hands are

> flapping

> > > literally all day long. This got me to

> wondering what it might

> really

> > > feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Diane ('s Mom)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

i to think inthe begin most siblings are themost accpeting of us and

odd ways of expressing and playing it is when they get bigger andothrs

make comments of us tothem that causes them to begint his uncertain of

how to react or respond to us that causes them to begin to avoid us

too. it is of sad because often siblings are not being inclused and

shon " HOW " to interact and join us at out levels of being. If they are

of imitating of us let it be as they develop and if their being is of

typical development they will learn on their own socially how to have

ofbalance and when and where certain things arenot accpeted by their

typical peers. but for us it means of the worls when sibling connects

or lets us be us when we make that attempt to interact. I touse to get

of hugs and hand shakes mixed up I to understood there was an

expectation of greeting gesture but lacked how to separate and so

actually blended the two and would be to give my brother hugs by

grabbing him and shaking him hard by the shoulders as if hand shaking

him shoulders but to me this was given him a hug and he would be to

act of silly and then he to head bang hims head on the wall,

refrigerator or other places, and spin self and laugh and it causes

me to be happy and so I to jump and flap and be on my way but it was

my interaction ways with him and he to allowed it even though did not

understand it he to knowed of it being just me and my way of playing

to him.

I to still to this day have some what a bond to the brother more than

any in the whole birth family of me.

Sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " Debi " wrote:

>

> I just remembered when Allie was first dxed would flap her

> hands, too. It was like she was doing it to be like Allie. I feel bad

> now because I remember telling to stop. It wasn't that I was

> not wanting Jess or Allie to look the part, it was that I would feel

> panicked that was regressing. Lol. I actually like it when

> Allie flaps, that means she's happy. I like to see her happy. And now

> when does it I think it's cute. Of course, she's 9 now and

not

> 3 1/2 like then.

>

> Debi

>

[Guest guest]

That's interesting Sondra. I've noticed before that sometimes when

is super happy she will become mildly aggressive. For example, we

have been playing at times and will be having a really great time laughing

and acting silly and she will stop and come over and hit me. When I say

" why did you hit me, we were having so much fun and you got mean??? " and she

will just say " I don't know " . Now I understand it better. Thanks!!

Diane ('s Mom)

Re: Question For Autistic Members

Hand flapping comes tome when strong emotional feelings are surging,

happy, excited, stimmy over seeing things that bring me happy. it is

usually expressed in very happy feelings within me. It is rare for

me to do them now but I to find self sticking legs out when sitting

when happy now as they just come out stiff and odd and I to do more

of a finger flapping and or crossing the fingers and flicking the

chin with them I to also have strong habit of holding face with my

palms upside down as if closing off my ears this is usually

expressed when somethings instead is annoying me or causing me a

negative feeling. twisting of my hands tends to come when anxiety is

high or emotions coming that i to not be to read or understand or

have names to are often expressed as a negative emotion. Sometimes

too though can feel too much happy almost pervaisvely happy and it

will trigger agitation and or aggresion which some might interpret

ofme as being upset or angry butnot just too much emotion and lack

what to do with it or interpret the feeling it brings in good

balance. that is why some kids with autism who are happy might be

happy and then bite or pinch you. we to feel emitons within us

sometimes pervasively but lack what it is we are feeling by name or

how to regulate and or balance that emotions.

Sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " ds2400 " wrote:

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps

her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but

's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism.

She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't

flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10,

it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give

her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing

replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are

flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

------------------------

Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

Thanks Esther and you're right about " picking you battles " . I really don't

fuss at her over this anymore, just trying to zero in on the emotion behind

the behavior. Isn't it funny how " typical " people can have all the stims

you mentioned, twirling hair, tapping foot, etc.,etc., and people don't

think anything of it. But just you let one of our kids have a different

stim and everyone looks at them like they are crazy!

Diane ('s Mom)

Re: Re: Question For Autistic Members

Hi Diane,

I know that you did not address this question to me,

but I have a few insights on this topic as well so I

thought I would share. My daughter flaps her hands a

lot and her teachers are always wanting me to stop

her. The thing is, I don't see a problem with it, so I

ignore them. Yes she is almost 5 and it looks a little

odd to others, but the top American idol contestants,

both of them I have noticed both Hicks and

McPhee flap there hands, and the whole world

doesn't seem to mind when they do it, infact they have

over 50million votes from people supporting them. I am

not saying that they are my idols, I am just saying

that I saw that show on TV the other day and noticed

that the girl flaps her hands all the time

and people just think she is cutesy, and the guy

, doesn't actually flap his hands, but he claps

his side when he is excited and he scrunches up his

hand into a fist and pulls it into himself while he is

singing and really trying to express himself. These

things are ways of expressing your emotions.

I have been teaching myself and my daughters sign

language with these videos called Signing time (which

are great by the way) and I noticed that the sign for

Excited actually is pretty much the same as my one

daughters hand flapping. You take your middle finger

and brush it very gently up and down quickly on the

sides of your chest infront of you and when done by

the teacher in the movie, looks almost exactly how my

daughter Chantelle's hand flapping is.

We are always wanting our kids to express themselves

and tell us how they feel and then people tell us to

tell them No and then we think we should trust them or

do what they say for our kids to be normal and trying

to be good parents we try and stop the very expression

of emotion that we asked them to share with us. So I

honestly think that we need to be careful not to

contradict ourselvs, or our children will become very

confused with us and begrudge us. Never knowing what

we want.

I know that personally I have a lot of nervouse

habits, if you will. I chew pencils, I bite my

fingernails, I twist my hair (it is very long, just

the ends of it), I tap my foot or a pencil on the

table, I scrath my arms, I make clicking sounds with

my tongue, I wiggle around a lot when I am trying to

sit still too long or when I am excited. I sing, I

like to spin in office chairs, I laugh when I am

nervouse or at the wrong time and make people mad,

when I don't mean to. I have even laughed when people

get hurt, even when I don't think it is funny, I just

laugh, I don't know exactly why, and they really don't

like that. I honestly don't know if I am Autistic or

not, I have never been evaluated by anyone and my

parents homeschooled me, so nobody at school ever

evaluated me either, but I know that I very much

relate to a lot of things that Sondra says and a lot

of the things that my daughters and your daughters do.

However, nobody really has a problem with me, I have a

lot of friends and sometimes they tell me " Your so

weird " and I laugh and then we are still friends, or

they say " Stop it, you are irritating me " and

sometimes I will do it even more really fast just to

joke with them and then I will stop till nobody is

around. But honestly, a lot of guys thought that the

stuff I did was cutesy when I was a teenager and my

husband still thinks it is funny to make me nervouse

or mad or excited and then he laughs at the dorky

things I do. So it doesn't really matter, somebody

will love your daughter in spite of the handflapping

and just teach her to have confidence and stand up for

herself and to laugh at herself and I think she will

be fine and do a lot better than she would if she must

supress her feelings.

People always say " Pick your battles " and I think the

battles that would be more important would be things

like helping your daughter not drool and spit when she

is upset at you (I am talking about my daughter) but

that is a lot groser and a thing that will bother

pretty much anyone, including me (if your child can

help it, like mine). Worry about the other things and

let her show some joy and emotion you could even try

it too and see if it makes you feel better too. I know

it sounds silly, but sometimes when Chantelle gets

really excited I flap my hands along with her and

laugh and we have fun and then she gives me a big hug,

because she knows that I am acknowledging her

excitement. It actually gives you energy and a little

boost or kick or whatever you want to call it and

makes you smile (which gives you endorphins and

feelings of joy).

So you don't have to take my advice, I am no genious,

but it works for us and makes my daughter happier. My

mom forever tried to stop my little habbits and to an

extent I begrudge her a little for it, because she

never shows emotion and never seems happy, so we don't

have much of a good relationship. Until really

recently actually and now she actually is learning

from having long distance grandkids that it is ok to

be excited and silly and dorky and " who cares? " will

we ever see those people at the theater again. Why

should they own the world and what we can or can't do?

Anyhow, there is my feelings on it. Hope it helps.

Sincerely, Esther

> > > Kassi, Sondra or ,

> > >

> > > Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when

> my daughter

> flaps her

> > > hands? I know this might seem like a silly

> question but

> 's

> > > major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand

> flapping. I was

> > > wondering how this must feel for her and what

> purpose it might

> serve.

> > > All I've read and been told just says its a

> calming mechanism.

> She

> > > flaps when she's happy or excited or

> overwhelmed. She doesn't

> flap

> > > when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her

> hands together or

> sit

> > > on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers

> others (the

> movies)

> > > and she can comply but only for a few minutes.

> Now that she's

> 10, it's

> > > much more obvious to others. I've tried

> everything I know to

> give her

> > > an alternative that's more socially acceptable

> but nothing

> replaces

> > > flapping for long. Some times it seems like her

> hands are

> flapping

> > > literally all day long. This got me to

> wondering what it might

> really

> > > feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Diane ('s Mom)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You told us the answer. Happy, overwhelmed, or

excited. There's a lot of energy with those emotions.

The hands release it.

Try it sometime, you might like it. I'm 23 and still

flap in public.

Kassiane

--- ds2400 wrote:

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my

> daughter flaps her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question

> but 's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand

> flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what

> purpose it might serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming

> mechanism. She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed.

> She doesn't flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands

> together or sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers

> others (the movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now

> that she's 10, it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything

> I know to give her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but

> nothing replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her

> hands are flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering

> what it might really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Makes my wrists hurt. I'm impressed by the ability of some! Allie

looks like a little bird sometimes, esp when she jumps while she does

it. I think she's really just trying to fly...

Debi with RA

>

> You told us the answer. Happy, overwhelmed, or

> excited. There's a lot of energy with those emotions.

> The hands release it.

>

> Try it sometime, you might like it. I'm 23 and still

> flap in public.

>

> Kassiane

[Guest guest]

I like it when my beauty flaps. She used to do it much more when she was

younger. I know she is happy or excited or both when she does it now. And her

legs

wiggle back and forth too. I always feel happy when she flaps because I know

she is feeling that way.

Melinda

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Do you like to swing ?

>

> Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:55:06 -0000

> To: Autism_in_Girls

> Subject: Re: Question For Autistic Members

>

> Anastatia, I to should be to have finished reading before to posted

> you shared the same words as I to just sended. I to be to think yiou

> did a much great job of sharing and expressing it.

>

> Sondra

>

>

>

> In Autism_in_Girls , " Anastasia E. OMelveny "

> wrote:

>>

>> I don't flap my hands - I have other odd things I do, such as

> rocking or

>> clearing my throat, but my best friend who is autistic does it.

> He's 43 and

>> even though it is a little unusual it doesn't bother his friends

> and family.

>> Maybe it bothers strangers but does that really matter so much?

> He is a

>> musician and artist so he can also express himself that way. He

> is also a

>> self-sufficient person now.

>>

>> I don't think you should make her stop. It is a balancing

> mechansim. It

>> seems to me that my friend is releasing pent-up energy when he

> does it.

>> Some people don't think of energy as a real substance, they think

> of it as

>> thoughts or emotions, but it is real like electricity. As you

> wrote, she

>> does it when she is happy or excited or overwhelmed, but not when

> she is mad

>> or sad, which are low energy. You would think that Mad would be

> high energy

>> but in fact it is cramped up. If it was anger and was in motion

> being

>> expressed it would be high energy. The energy of happy, excited

> or

>> overwhelmed tend to be about experiencing NEW things, which cannot

> be

>> processed quickly, and so the energy is unorganized and flapping

> helps it to

>> be organized and also, to let some of the intensity be expressed.

>>

>> Most 'normal people' have other ways of processing experiences.

> Often they

>> diffuse an experience by naming it even if the name may not be

> quite right

>> or even true. Giving it a name allows them to move some of the

> intensity

>> outside to the thing or person which is upsetting them or putting

> them off

>> balance. Such as saying to themselves that someone who is

> upsetting them is

>> wrong, or that there probably won't be that much trouble from the

> storm.

>>

>> Perhaps if your daughter had some other ways to express herself or

> her

>> feelings freely during her regular days - like dancing or making

> noise/music

>> or doing art with clay or paint - that might help her learn other

> ways to

>> express herself and release energy. I know that swinging on

> swings can also

>> be extremely helpful. They have swings you can get for in the

> house that go

>> in a doorway. Or get the outside kind or go to a park. I love to

> swing and

>> it helps me very much if I am upset about anything. In a movie

> situation

>> you could try asking her to swing her feet instead of flapping her

> hands.

>> Good luck. Anastasia

>>

>>

>>>

>>> Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

>>> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:32:17 -0000

>>> To: Autism_in_Girls

>>> Subject: Question For Autistic Members

>>>

>>> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>>>

>>> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter

> flaps her

>>> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but

> 's

>>> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

>>> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

> serve.

>>> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism.

> She

>>> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't

> flap

>>> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

> sit

>>> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

> movies)

>>> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's

> 10, it's

>>> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to

> give her

>>> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing

> replaces

>>> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are

> flapping

>>> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

> really

>>> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>>>

>>> Thanks,

>>> Diane ('s Mom)

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

>>> ------------------------

>>> Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

>>>

[Guest guest]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot. To me, hand flapping is

not something I've ever tried to get rid of in kids. I think it's a

lot better than other things they COULD be doing, and honestly, LOTS

of typical people hand flap for different reasons. I've done it

myself (when very upset). I was thinking of an episode of " Friends "

where runs into some old friends, and the first thing the 3 of

them do is run up to each other flapping their hands in the air out

of excitement! My son hand flaps from time to time when he's excited,

and walks on his toes. He sometimes toe walks without hand flapping,

but if his hands are going, he's ALWAYS on his toes too. My sister

hand flaps when she's excited about something and her brain is going

faster than her mouth can keep up. The little girl that lives next

store to us doesn't speak much English, but I can tell when she's

excited because her hands start going too. None of the people above

are on the spectrum at all.

I think it is important to work on controlling it (for places like

the movies or school where it can be disruptive) but I don't think

the goal should be to eliminate it.

Amnesty

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps

her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but 's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism. She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10,

it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give

her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

[Guest guest]

yes i to swing much so now,sondra

In Autism_in_Girls , " Anastasia E. OMelveny "

wrote:

>

> Thanks. Do you like to swing ?

>

> >

> > Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

> > Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:55:06 -0000

> > To: Autism_in_Girls

> > Subject: Re: Question For Autistic Members

> >

> > Anastatia, I to should be to have finished reading before to

posted

> > you shared the same words as I to just sended. I to be to think

yiou

> > did a much great job of sharing and expressing it.

> >

> > Sondra

> >

> >

> >

> > In Autism_in_Girls , " Anastasia E. OMelveny "

> > <plowstars@> wrote:

> >>

> >> I don't flap my hands - I have other odd things I do, such as

> > rocking or

> >> clearing my throat, but my best friend who is autistic does it.

> > He's 43 and

> >> even though it is a little unusual it doesn't bother his friends

> > and family.

> >> Maybe it bothers strangers but does that really matter so much?

> > He is a

> >> musician and artist so he can also express himself that way. He

> > is also a

> >> self-sufficient person now.

> >>

> >> I don't think you should make her stop. It is a balancing

> > mechansim. It

> >> seems to me that my friend is releasing pent-up energy when he

> > does it.

> >> Some people don't think of energy as a real substance, they

think

> > of it as

> >> thoughts or emotions, but it is real like electricity. As you

> > wrote, she

> >> does it when she is happy or excited or overwhelmed, but not

when

> > she is mad

> >> or sad, which are low energy. You would think that Mad would be

> > high energy

> >> but in fact it is cramped up. If it was anger and was in motion

> > being

> >> expressed it would be high energy. The energy of happy,

excited

> > or

> >> overwhelmed tend to be about experiencing NEW things, which

cannot

> > be

> >> processed quickly, and so the energy is unorganized and flapping

> > helps it to

> >> be organized and also, to let some of the intensity be

expressed.

> >>

> >> Most 'normal people' have other ways of processing experiences.

> > Often they

> >> diffuse an experience by naming it even if the name may not be

> > quite right

> >> or even true. Giving it a name allows them to move some of the

> > intensity

> >> outside to the thing or person which is upsetting them or

putting

> > them off

> >> balance. Such as saying to themselves that someone who is

> > upsetting them is

> >> wrong, or that there probably won't be that much trouble from

the

> > storm.

> >>

> >> Perhaps if your daughter had some other ways to express herself

or

> > her

> >> feelings freely during her regular days - like dancing or making

> > noise/music

> >> or doing art with clay or paint - that might help her learn

other

> > ways to

> >> express herself and release energy. I know that swinging on

> > swings can also

> >> be extremely helpful. They have swings you can get for in the

> > house that go

> >> in a doorway. Or get the outside kind or go to a park. I love

to

> > swing and

> >> it helps me very much if I am upset about anything. In a movie

> > situation

> >> you could try asking her to swing her feet instead of flapping

her

> > hands.

> >> Good luck. Anastasia

> >>

> >>

> >>> From: " ds2400 " <ds2400@>

> >>> Reply-To: Autism_in_Girls

> >>> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:32:17 -0000

> >>> To: Autism_in_Girls

> >>> Subject: Question For Autistic Members

> >>>

> >>> Kassi, Sondra or ,

> >>>

> >>> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter

> > flaps her

> >>> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but

> > 's

> >>> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> >>> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

> > serve.

> >>> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism.

> > She

> >>> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't

> > flap

> >>> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together

or

> > sit

> >>> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

> > movies)

> >>> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's

> > 10, it's

> >>> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to

> > give her

> >>> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing

> > replaces

> >>> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are

> > flapping

> >>> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

> > really

> >>> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

> >>>

> >>> Thanks,

> >>> Diane ('s Mom)

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

> >>> ------------------------

> >>> Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

> >>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply to this. Your insight and opinions

were much appreciated by me.

Diane ('s Mom)

Re: Question For Autistic Members

I've been thinking about this thread a lot. To me, hand flapping is

not something I've ever tried to get rid of in kids. I think it's a

lot better than other things they COULD be doing, and honestly, LOTS

of typical people hand flap for different reasons. I've done it

myself (when very upset). I was thinking of an episode of " Friends "

where runs into some old friends, and the first thing the 3 of

them do is run up to each other flapping their hands in the air out

of excitement! My son hand flaps from time to time when he's excited,

and walks on his toes. He sometimes toe walks without hand flapping,

but if his hands are going, he's ALWAYS on his toes too. My sister

hand flaps when she's excited about something and her brain is going

faster than her mouth can keep up. The little girl that lives next

store to us doesn't speak much English, but I can tell when she's

excited because her hands start going too. None of the people above

are on the spectrum at all.

I think it is important to work on controlling it (for places like

the movies or school where it can be disruptive) but I don't think

the goal should be to eliminate it.

Amnesty

>

> Kassi, Sondra or ,

>

> Can anyone with autism tell me how it feels when my daughter flaps

her

> hands? I know this might seem like a silly question but 's

> major stim that we cannot extinguish is hand flapping. I was

> wondering how this must feel for her and what purpose it might

serve.

> All I've read and been told just says its a calming mechanism. She

> flaps when she's happy or excited or overwhelmed. She doesn't flap

> when she's mad or sad. I tell her to hold her hands together or

sit

> on her hands if we're somewhere where it bothers others (the

movies)

> and she can comply but only for a few minutes. Now that she's 10,

it's

> much more obvious to others. I've tried everything I know to give

her

> an alternative that's more socially acceptable but nothing replaces

> flapping for long. Some times it seems like her hands are flapping

> literally all day long. This got me to wondering what it might

really

> feel like to her. Any guesses would be helpful.

>

> Thanks,

> Diane ('s Mom)

>

Autism_in_Girls-subscribe

------------------------

Autism_in_Girls-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 9:04:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ds2400@... writes:

Your insight and opinions

were much appreciated by me.

Me, too. Thanks, everyone, I continue to gain insights and understanding from

you all, and it makes a world of difference.

Melinda