Re: Autism sufferers 'better at problem solving'

June 21, 2009

Raven stated, excerpted;It is one thing to speak out against transgressions and perpetrators> even decades after the fact however it is equally important for the> individual to put a stop to the effects the transgressions and> perpertrators have on the individual's life.> > As Aspies, all of us have suffered at the hands of those who were in> authority over us over the years be they teachers, principals,> employers, spouses, et al. If we choose to continue to live in the> shadows of those who have done terrible things against us, we will never> be able to speak out effectively against them and their bad deeds.> > The sweetest form of revenge -- if you wish to call it that -- is to> succeed in life. To do less than this is to leave the power over our> lives in the hands of our abusers and tormentors.Thanks to Raven for the reminder to move forward, rather than staying mired in the past.A wise friend sometimes reminds me 'we chose to give away our power' or 'we choose to NOT give away our power.'renaissanzelady " ... <snip> ... If Maurice is right in his assertion> that his masterpiece was destroyed and his career destroyed by an> inefficient educational system, he is within his rights to refuse to let> it go or to forgive. I will agree, however, that it does not serve him> to hang on to these feelings though as it can become the proverbial ball> and chain to him as he proceeds throughout life.> > But sometimes what we hate about people is that they try to never let> the transgressor know that s/he/they has committed an offense for which> there was sufferring, either perceived or real. Yet seeing as these> people had transgressions committed against them, they are within their> rights to respond in any way they legally chose ... <snip> ... "> > I do not doubt that Maurice's works were destroyed by individuals or> groups of individuals in the educational system. That is not the same> thing as having one's works destroyed by an inefficient educational> system.> > That being said, if they were destroyed and it causes Maurice so much> pain, then he must recreate those lost works and move forward.> > It is one thing to speak out against transgressions and perpetrators> even decades after the fact however it is equally important for the> individual to put a stop to the effects the transgressions and> perpertrators have on the individual's life.> > As Aspies, all of us have suffered at the hands of those who were in> authority over us over the years be they teachers, principals,> employers, spouses, et al. If we choose to continue to live in the> shadows of those who have done terrible things against us, we will never> be able to speak out effectively against them and their bad deeds.> > The sweetest form of revenge -- if you wish to call it that -- is to> succeed in life. To do less than this is to leave the power over our> lives in the hands of our abusers and tormentors.> > Raven>

June 21, 2009

Wait a minute: I don't recall reading in the past that you were in an

accelerated program: if that means what it would mean in the US (just ask Phil

about his weird reactions in the US to using rubber and constipation in

public, as things don't mean the same in the US version of English) that you

were able to get through school much faster, without (at least, I remember

reading no claim of it) doing any advanced work that other students wouldn't do

along a normal program, except that you did it sooner, thereby getting you out

of the school system sooner: meaning, you had that much more of childhood

uninterrupted by standard school, that you could have used that unbroken time to

be much more productive towards your desired goals. And here, all this time,

you want to blame the school system for failing you, not providing anything but

some torturous, ruinous thing, that real students interested in learning (those

that love to learn) would love to have as such an opportunity to do, to get out

of the stupid grind of the school environment, while students that want to

complete school, but otherwise aren't interested in going through the time

(those that aren't lovers of learning, but just don't want to be failures) would

jump at, so they could get out sooner, and you paint it all as this horrible

crime, while in reality, the school system was jumping through hoops to bend

itself to what they saw as a big advantage for you. All this time, you've been

publicly stating things to represent things as though they dumped an abusive

amount of load on you, for what's reasonably assumed by the average reader, to

be a normal school duration, when in reality, it wasn't that at all. Too bad

they wasted all that time and energy on you, when you've not repaid it by making

good use of the experience, and instead would pillory them for bending over

backwards to do a good thing for you.

That paints a very bad picture when all these inconvenient truths become more

widely known.

> * No adult came along and physically destroyed it. This brand new story is a

malicious defamation. What they destroyed was my opportunity to complete it, by

setting me a critically impossible school workload.

> * There is a record of the fact that I was writing it, in a local newspaper

write-up on my school's supposed wonders, that appeared in 1980 after I passed

some exams at an accelerated age. If there is that lucky record for me, there

can be many others who there is no such redord for.

June 21, 2009

Women in certain professions or areas of study;In my last year of elementary school, my parents decided to move from the city, My only regret was; had I gone to a city High School, I would have been permitted to take typing as an option, BUT when we moved to the rural area, I was forced to take Home Economics, the only students allowed to take typing were in the "Commercial' course stream in that High School.When I studied Agricultural Science in the 1970's, a minority of the students in that College

were woman, apparently that has changed.My daughter studied Computer Information Technology at College, now

volunteers in CIT for a non-profit, most of her work and school friends

are guys, don't know if it is due to a majority of her peers being

guys, or that she has more in common with these particular guys.

She has always been interested in Science/Technology, at one time

wanted to be an astrophysicist, then later a medical researcher.

She is much more of a 'girly-girl' than I am, has always been. (but does not like pink at this age)When my daughter was in High School, she took a 'foods class' guys took it, she also took woodworking one year, so some things have improved.BUT the hidden covert expectations may be harder to change...renaissanzelady

>

> Simplicity wins.

>

> The KISS principle (not as in the band KISS but rather in terms of "Keep It Simple, Stupid") is always best. Since nature goes with simplicity and it works until man messes with it, simplicity is the way to go!

>

> Why were there no girls in the class out of sixteen people

>

> There were no girls in the class out of sixteen people because it is socially unacceptable for girls to be interested in those sorts of things. When I was in high school, I begged to be allowed to take Shop and I was denied because I was a girl and girls took Home Economics if they wanted to take a class other than the regular subjects. Similar discrimination, though unspoken, exists today.

I always found that odd. I do not fit the stereotype of a 'girly

girl', and like my mother, I dislike the colour pink strongly. It

gives me a headache.

In this case the pressure is likely mainly from parents and peers. The

reasons I think that are:

*The activities coordinator is a woman.

*She also likes Legos and the Legos Mindstorms robotics systems.

*I have learned by experience how reliable random peers are in a system.

> Raven

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June 21, 2009

Question;Does passing 'some exams at an accelerated age' require the student to be 'in an accelerated program'??renaissanzeladyFrom: strictnon_conformist <no_reply >Subject: Re: Autism sufferers 'better at problem solving'To: FAMSecretSociety Received: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 1:33 PM

Wait a minute: I don't recall reading in the past that you were in an accelerated program: if that means what it would mean in the US (just ask Phil about his weird reactions in the US to using rubber and constipation in public, as things don't mean the same in the US version of English) that you were able to get through school much faster, without (at least, I remember reading no claim of it) doing any advanced work that other students wouldn't do along a normal program, except that you did it sooner, thereby getting you out of the school system sooner: meaning, you had that much more of childhood uninterrupted by standard school, that you could have used that unbroken time to be much more productive towards your desired goals. And here, all this time, you want to blame the school system for failing you, not providing anything but some torturous, ruinous thing, that real students interested in learning (those that love to learn) would

love to have as such an opportunity to do, to get out of the stupid grind of the school environment, while students that want to complete school, but otherwise aren't interested in going through the time (those that aren't lovers of learning, but just don't want to be failures) would jump at, so they could get out sooner, and you paint it all as this horrible crime, while in reality, the school system was jumping through hoops to bend itself to what they saw as a big advantage for you. All this time, you've been publicly stating things to represent things as though they dumped an abusive amount of load on you, for what's reasonably assumed by the average reader, to be a normal school duration, when in reality, it wasn't that at all. Too bad they wasted all that time and energy on you, when you've not repaid it by making good use of the experience, and instead would pillory them for bending over backwards to do a good thing for you.

That paints a very bad picture when all these inconvenient truths become more widely known.

> * No adult came along and physically destroyed it. This brand new story is a malicious defamation. What they destroyed was my opportunity to complete it, by setting me a critically impossible school workload.

> * There is a record of the fact that I was writing it, in a local newspaper write-up on my school's supposed wonders, that appeared in 1980 after I passed some exams at an accelerated age. If there is that lucky record for me, there can be many others who there is no such redord for.

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June 21, 2009

" Does passing 'some exams at an accelerated age' require the student to be 'in

an accelerated program'?? "

At university, I tested out of lower level general education requirements and

simply began at a higher course level in those areas. I suppose I could have

taken the lower level gen-ed courses anyway, but I'm sure my advisor would have

considered me nuts. Also, cnsidering my transcript reflects the advanced

placement, taking the courses I'd placed out of would have obscured this

advanced placement (although not eliminated it - records do exist of my testing

out of lower level courses). Thus it was in my interest for a number of

different reasons to simply go into the higher level courses eight away.

I cannot speak to what happens in ALL elementary schools, middle schools, or

high schools.

I know that it was possible in my high school district to take " advanced

placement " and " accelerated " courses without being in the " advanced placement "

and " accelerated " program. (The programs meant that you took ALL advanced

placement or accelerated courses).

I could have taken accelerated science classes but elected not to because I was

a poor study in math, which is an essential component of science. As it was, I

got good grades in science classes, but my grades would have been better had I

had a more thorough grasp of math.

I know that I have taught advanced placement and accelerated courses in English

literature in other districts than my own and some of those students I taught

were in regular level classes for subjects other than English.

Maurice lives in the UK, so their system may be entirely different than what I

experienced in the US. Further, I cannot state anything with certainty about the

education system in Canada.

Administrator

June 22, 2009

Renaissanzelady wrote: " Question: Does passing 'some exams at an accelerated

age' require the student to be 'in an accelerated program'? "

I'm not sure if it does in all countries but in Canada and in some European

countries where I was raised, it was possible to pass exams at an accelerate age

without being in an accelerated program.

For example, in Grade 9 I passed exams in my perseverative interests for Grade

10, 11 and 12 which meant that the grade on the exam was used as my final grade

for that particular course and level.

I also chose to repeat Grade 10 Algebra because I was dissatisfied with how

little I had learned the first time through. The guidance counselor was floored

that I would insist on repeating a course and level that I had 'passed' however

I persisted and was allowed to repeat Grade 10 Algebra, leaving the second time

with a far better understanding of the principles taught at that level.

I was not in a remedial program for having repeated Grade 10 Algebra just as I

was not in an accelerated program for having completed other courses and levels

above my grade placement.

I know it was like this in elementary schools I attended in Europe.

It is therefore possible for others to have experienced a similar schooling

situation.

Raven

June 22, 2009

" When I was a child of about that age, while most other kids were reading books

about sports and such, I had books about how things worked. Some of these were

clearly for children with very simplified drawings of how things like car

engines, rockets and so forth worked, but it was factual and really how they

worked. I also had other like books about basic science, astronomy, geology,

etc. "

When I was still in grammar school, they used to sell off old school textbooks

at the end of the year. These were ones which were used for years and which were

going to be replaced by new ones. They used to sell them for something like a

quarter a piece. I bought dictionaries, readers, history and social studies

books and a couple of science books.

I read the readers but did not necessarily read the history and social studies

books from cover to cover, but only parts of them. Other kids bought some

textbooks too, but I can remember buying armloads, whereas they only bought a

couple. As I got older I saved some money and bought some science equipment from

a place called American Science and Surplus and did some of the experiments in

the science books.

The only books I ever bought beside " Little House on the Prairie " and " Hardy

Boy " books was a book called " The First Chemistry Book for Boys and Girls " which

I still have.

Administrator

June 22, 2009

Many libraries regularly have book sales. I bought a great many at the college library, which sold old books for a dollar each. I got to be on such good terms with the librarians that they let me look around the storage room on one of the last few days before graduation. Practically filled the trunk of the car that day.

Our schools have always had a book fair every year. I would look for science and science fiction and history books. When I was in first or second grade I bought a couple of big books with lots of interesting paintings in them. They were sci-fi books, one called "Spacewrecks" and another was about human space exploration and a war with an alien race. Very well done paintings. The teaches tried to talk me out of buying them because they were beyond my reading level and I told them they might be for now, but they won't always be. As it was, I read through them and could understand what was happening well enough. I've read them a few more times since and they make more sense and I see them in different ways each time I read them.

In a message dated 6/22/2009 3:24:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

When I was still in grammar school, they used to sell off old school textbooks at the end of the year. These were ones which were used for years and which were going to be replaced by new ones. An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!

June 22, 2009

Interestingly I found those books on Amazon. They were written in 1979, which means I would have been seven years old minimum when I bought them, maybe 8 or 9 depending on which year they were at the book fair. Only have them used of course. I'm not sure where mine are so I am tempted to order new ones.

Here are the covers, provided this insert works. If it does, you can see the quality and detail of the artwork, which is one of the things that initially attracted me to it. The stories later were engaging.

In a message dated 6/22/2009 1:01:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

I had to tell my teachers that also in regard to the history books I bought. They seemed to fail to think ahead like I did.Administrator An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!

June 22, 2009

> By your own admission then, the only thing that prevents you from writing

again is yourself therefore you are doing yourself a great disservice, maurice.

No. I would do myself a great disservice if I allowed the same item to be

classed as, and treated like, adults' writing. Meanwhile I have certainly

" written again " because I have written other items, items about the issue

itself, as you know.

Now: so long as folks don't pick up on and believe Strict's visibly wilful

scrambling and of all the facts and daily total rewriting of his own argument,

which show he knows he has lost the argument long ago and is clutching at any

straw he can fantasise, I can continue to ignore him as if he does not exist. I

would like it to be established that everyone will remember, from the present

moment, how scrambled up are Strict's posts made contrary to the expressed and

exercised right of either side to discontinue the topic. Then I won't have to

answer any comments made innocently by other folks on Strict's wrong facts and

he can't use that device to keep the topic going. None of you are here to have a

spiteful obsessive hurl unresponsive personal abuse at you endlessly after they

share sensitively with the group on aspie troubles and stresses, and neither am

I. Either there is a space here you can trust or there isn't.

June 22, 2009

Ah, but you love to twist things, far more than I do: you never shipped your

so-called " child prodigy " work, which, in practice, something (at best)

partially finished can't be given an accurate judgment, regardless, and you

never bothered to complete it: you need to drop your line about being a " child

prodigy writer " because you NEVER earned that title by having completed your

childhood project, and self-proclaiming that has as much validity as any one of

us mere mortals proclaiming we're the second coming.

Real artists ship. Real artists don't get judged that by themselves, but are

recognized by outsiders, many of them, that are skilled in the realm to judge of

such things. All your proclamations of being a child prodigy, without completed

works judged by a sufficient number of outsiders (meaning: not people that are

rooting for you for some weird relation, but people that don't personally know

you), is pure fraud, plain and simple, and I promise to keep on reminding you of

that whenever I for some reason see and read it proclaimed that you were a child

prodigy. And if that assessment of the reality drives you into a mental

meltdown, remember: it's self-inflicted by living a lie that you chose, and no

outsider can do more than remind you of that.

>

> > By your own admission then, the only thing that prevents you from writing

again is yourself therefore you are doing yourself a great disservice, maurice.

>

> No. I would do myself a great disservice if I allowed the same item to be

classed as, and treated like, adults' writing. Meanwhile I have certainly

" written again " because I have written other items, items about the issue

itself, as you know.

>

> Now: so long as folks don't pick up on and believe Strict's visibly wilful