Re: harassment

May 20, 2009

no raven. I was not looking for anything. I did not ask for anyone to pay. Nobody offered. I didn't expect them to offer. I don't know what I would have done if anyone offered. It did not occur to me that anyone would, but if someone valued my site enough to want to pay for it, after my shock had subsided, I might have considered it or I might not.

I consider this post harassment. You are trying very hard to provoke me in any way possible. It is mildly irritating but as it seems to be part of your nature to have people to harass, I can accept that having someone to niggle at is really important for you and meets some unexplained need.

Didn't you say you were done? WAS: Tony Attwood's opinion

gproberston wrote: "Well there was nobody offering to pay for hosting ... <snip> ... "

So you were looking for a free ride from someone who was willing to pay for YOUR website hosting?

Raven

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May 20, 2009

1. How does harassment differ from debate/discussion ????

2. When we think we are being harassed, is it best to say 'I am being harassment',

or best to remove ourselves from the situation??

3. When someone engages in discussion with others, they leave themselves open for differing points of view to be presented.

4. Personally, I prefer someone to be open about stating an opposing point of view, than to remain silent but be harbouring an opposing view point, then maybe later undermine (in a sneakyway) what I have said.

5. Open conflict is fairer than false agreement.

(life is not always fair BUT I certainly support fairness)

6. People who are able/willing to present an opposing view point seem to be few and far between, I think they are to be appreciated!

Without opposing view points, we would not be challenged to re-evaluate our positions.

7. Accuracy is important in many situations, including a forum such as this, where people from different backgrounds could be influenced for good or harm.

8. I am not in collusion with others, as was alluded to in a post months ago.

9. I merely speak out in support of people who analyze, evaluate and present evidence which brings things to light.

10. being a debater myself, i say to a fellow debater: 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.'

renaissanzelady

"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."(adapted from a poem by Smart) "Well there was nobody offering to pay for hosting ... <snip> ... "

So you were looking for a free ride from someone who was willing to pay for YOUR website hosting?

Raven

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May 20, 2009

lol I don't think I can be accused of being afraid of heat. I am still in the kitchen and I have attracted plenty of heat.

Re: harassment

1. How does harassment differ from debate/discussion ????

2. When we think we are being harassed, is it best to say 'I am being harassment',

or best to remove ourselves from the situation??

3. When someone engages in discussion with others, they leave themselves open for differing points of view to be presented.

4. Personally, I prefer someone to be open about stating an opposing point of view, than to remain silent but be harbouring an opposing view point, then maybe later undermine (in a sneakyway) what I have said.

5. Open conflict is fairer than false agreement.

(life is not always fair BUT I certainly support fairness)

6. People who are able/willing to present an opposing view point seem to be few and far between, I think they are to be appreciated!

Without opposing view points, we would not be challenged to re-evaluate our positions.

7. Accuracy is important in many situations, including a forum such as this, where people from different backgrounds could be influenced for good or harm.

8. I am not in collusion with others, as was alluded to in a post months ago.

9. I merely speak out in support of people who analyze, evaluate and present evidence which brings things to light.

10. being a debater myself, i say to a fellow debater: 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.'

renaissanzelady

"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."

(adapted from a poem by Smart)

"Well there was nobody offering to pay for hosting ... <snip> ... "

So you were looking for a free ride from someone who was willing to pay for YOUR website hosting?

Raven

------------ --------- --------- ------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message boards founded by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the www.aspergia. com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum administrator, use this e-mail address: FAMSecretSociety- owner@yahoogroup s.com

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

May 20, 2009

gprobertson wrote: "no raven. I was not looking for anything. I did not ask for anyone to pay. Nobody offered. I didn't expect them to offer. I don't know what I would have done if anyone offered. It did not occur to me that anyone would, but if someone valued my site enough to want to pay for it, after my shock had subsided, I might have considered it or I might not ... <snip> ... "

Obviously YOU, gproberston, did not value your site enough to want to pay for it as most people do when they actually have a website.

What amazes me is that you would expect someone else to offer to pay for your site when you weren't willing to invest in it yourself.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I consider this post harassment. ... <snip> ... "

It's not harassment for anyone to ask you: "

So you were looking for a free ride from someone who was willing to pay for YOUR website hosting? [end quote]."
It's a question requesting clarification.
When someone feels they have the drive to run a website, it's usually because they have something the individual feels is important to share with others online. They usually invest time AND MONEY by way of paying for web hosting (at the very least) in order to get their thoughts onto the World Wide Web.
You stated that no one offered to pay for the web hosting of YOUR website and so I asked you a question because one has to wonder why you would expect others to pay for YOUR venture online.gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... You are trying very hard to provoke me in any way possible ... <snip> ... "
That I point out the inconsistencies in your posts is not provoking you but rather asking for clarification on where you REALLY stand on matters.
It's asking you why you sometimes present yourself as a card carrying member and part of the executive of ASAN-AU when it suits you and then deny that you represent ASAN-AU in any way whatsoever when it suits you.
It's asking you why you promote medically and scientifically refuted treatments for Autistics when it suits you and asking why you are claiming otherwise when proof is presented that you have actually promoted said treatments.
In other words, gprobertson, you've been caught in so many contradictory postings of your own in THIS forum alone -- let alone the many others from which you have been banned that you at first denied being banned from -- that one has to ask for clarification from you on a regular basis when you post in Secret Society.
It's your trollish behaviour that warrants such responses from me as well as from others ... but you only go after me for some reason.
gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... It is mildly irritating but as it seems to be part of your nature to have people to harass, I can accept that having someone to niggle at is really important for you and meets some unexplained need ... <snip> ... "
You DO realize that defamation of character is actionable, yes?
First you did this to Tony Attwood and now you're trying to do this with me. At least I'm in good company with Tony Attwood.
And it might interest you to know that calling people on their fakery is not the same thing as harassment. As long as you are posting comments that are untrue or that are meant to mislead or that promote quack therapies or that are contradictory to what you have posted previously, I will call you on these things.
Raven

May 20, 2009

" I consider this post harassment. You are trying very hard to provoke me in any

way possible. It is mildly irritating but as it seems to be part of your nature

to have people to harass, I can accept that having someone to niggle at is

really important for you and meets some unexplained need. "

I know this post was directed at Raven, but I felt the need to reply...

Ari sent me a private message concerning my views on ASAN and I have written him

back. It has been two days and no response from him. I know he is busy, so I am

waiting for a reply.

As I have stated before, I have supported some of ASAN endeavors, but sometimes

I am led to question ASAN based on its political movements and the behavior and

history of some of its members. Hopefully he can address some of these issues.

Administrator

May 20, 2009

Hear, hear! Excellent points, Renaissanzelady. Perhaps gprobertson will be

better able to understand this because you posted it.

Raven

From Renaissanzelady's post:

1. How does harassment differ from debate/discussion ????

2. When we think we are being harassed, is it best to say 'I am being

harassment',

or best to remove ourselves from the situation??

3. When someone engages in discussion with others, they leave themselves open

for differing points of view to be presented.

4. Personally, I prefer someone to be open about stating an opposing point of

view, than to remain silent but be harbouring an opposing view point, then maybe

later undermine (in a sneakyway) what I have said.

5. Open conflict is fairer than false agreement.

(life is not always fair BUT I certainly support fairness)

6. People who are able/willing to present an opposing view point seem to be few

and far between, I think they are to be appreciated!

Without opposing view points, we would not be challenged to re-evaluate our

positions.

7. Accuracy is important in many situations, including a forum such as this,

where people from different backgrounds could be influenced for good or harm.

8. I am not in collusion with others, as was alluded to in a post months ago.

9. I merely speak out in support of people who analyze, evaluate and present

evidence which brings things to light.

10. being a debater myself, i say to a fellow debater: 'if you can't stand the

heat, get out of the kitchen.'

renaissanzelady

May 20, 2009

so am i one of the members whose behaviour and history you want to question?

Re: harassment

"I consider this post harassment. You are trying very hard to provoke me in any way possible. It is mildly irritating but as it seems to be part of your nature to have people to harass, I can accept that having someone to niggle at is really important for you and meets some unexplained need."

I know this post was directed at Raven, but I felt the need to reply...

Ari sent me a private message concerning my views on ASAN and I have written him back. It has been two days and no response from him. I know he is busy, so I am waiting for a reply. As I have stated before, I have supported some of ASAN endeavors, but sometimes I am led to question ASAN based on its political movements and the behavior and history of some of its members. Hopefully he can address some of these issues.

Administrator

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Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

May 20, 2009

gprobertson wrote: " so am i one of the members whose behaviour and history you

want to question? "

Well you have admitted to being a troll. You have admitted to being part of

ASAN-AU's executive. You have admitted (once proof was provided by other

members of this forum) that you have been banned from a number of online Autism

groups.

If you were anyone else, I, for one, would want to be aware of the sort of

person you are while you are posting in this forum.

As for anyone else's motivation, I can only speak to my own reasons why I would

want to know where the snake lies in the grass.

Raven

May 20, 2009

I started a website. Others did it better. I stopped doing the website because I did not have the time to keep it up and others did it better. I had a free host. The host decided to charge for hosting. I did not want to pay for a site I no longer wanted. I did not ask anyone to pay for it. I would have been amazed if anyone had wanted to pay for it. If someone had offered to pay for the host I might have considered it and I might not. I don't know what I would have done because the situation did not arise. The situation is not likely to ever arise. The situation is not worth considering because the site was really just a vehicle for me to explore and find out about autism. I also learned that I am no website designer and only mildly interested in being a webmaster. Others do it better, much better. So no, after a while I did not value the site. I reckon it is a good thing I took it down because old, neglected sites are annoying.

This is a really trivial topic. Yawn.

Re: harassment

gprobertson wrote: "no raven. I was not looking for anything. I did not ask for anyone to pay. Nobody offered. I didn't expect them to offer. I don't know what I would have done if anyone offered. It did not occur to me that anyone would, but if someone valued my site enough to want to pay for it, after my shock had subsided, I might have considered it or I might not ... <snip> ... "

Obviously YOU, gproberston, did not value your site enough to want to pay for it as most people do when they actually have a website.

What amazes me is that you would expect someone else to offer to pay for your site when you weren't willing to invest in it yourself.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I consider this post harassment. ... <snip> ... "

It's not harassment for anyone to ask you: "

So you were looking for a free ride from someone who was willing to pay for YOUR website hosting? [end quote]."
It's a question requesting clarification.
When someone feels they have the drive to run a website, it's usually because they have something the individual feels is important to share with others online. They usually invest time AND MONEY by way of paying for web hosting (at the very least) in order to get their thoughts onto the World Wide Web.
You stated that no one offered to pay for the web hosting of YOUR website and so I asked you a question because one has to wonder why you would expect others to pay for YOUR venture online.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... You are trying very hard to provoke me in any way possible ... <snip> ... "
That I point out the inconsistencies in your posts is not provoking you but rather asking for clarification on where you REALLY stand on matters.
It's asking you why you sometimes present yourself as a card carrying member and part of the executive of ASAN-AU when it suits you and then deny that you represent ASAN-AU in any way whatsoever when it suits you.
It's asking you why you promote medically and scientifically refuted treatments for Autistics when it suits you and asking why you are claiming otherwise when proof is presented that you have actually promoted said treatments.
In other words, gprobertson, you've been caught in so many contradictory postings of your own in THIS forum alone -- let alone the many others from which you have been banned that you at first denied being banned from -- that one has to ask for clarification from you on a regular basis when you post in Secret Society.
It's your trollish behaviour that warrants such responses from me as well as from others ... but you only go after me for some reason.
gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... It is mildly irritating but as it seems to be part of your nature to have people to harass, I can accept that having someone to niggle at is really important for you and meets some unexplained need ... <snip> ... "
You DO realize that defamation of character is actionable, yes?
First you did this to Tony Attwood and now you're trying to do this with me. At least I'm in good company with Tony Attwood.
And it might interest you to know that calling people on their fakery is not the same thing as harassment. As long as you are posting comments that are untrue or that are meant to mislead or that promote quack therapies or that are contradictory to what you have posted previously, I will call you on these things.
Raven

We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com.

May 20, 2009

" so am i one of the members whose behaviour and history you want to question? "

What I asked Ari (among other things) was:

1) Whether or not you are a representative of ASAN.

2) Whether or not you were given the responsibility of giving a letter to Tony

Attwood on ASAN's behalf.

3) Whether or not he is aware of your behavior on this forum.

4) Whether or not this behavior typifies that of the ASAN organization.

I also asked for a status report on certain things Ari and I were supposed to be

working on together, namely:

1) A joint operation against an autsm organization's refusal to allow anyone

other than Autism Spekaks to speak to Aspies at their meetings.

Months ago, Ari said he would assist us with this by providing an ASAN

representative to contact the organization in question and negotiate a

satisfactory outcome.

He never did.

2) The publication of a paper Ari asked me to write for him on autism and

bullying.

He has received the paper months ago, but failed to publish it.

3)The listing of MIC on the Ransom Notes request in exchange for our e-mail

list.

He took the e-mail list to expand his organization with, but failed to list us

as signatures on the petition.

And so you can see why I find the crediblity of ASAN disturbing, especially in

light of your behavior on this forum.

Administrator

May 20, 2009

gprobertson wrote: " .. <snip> ... This is a really trivial topic. Yawn. "

Yes, I've noticed how when you are caught in your own web of deceit that you

fall back on this sort of comment. If the topic is so trivial, why did you

mention it in the first place and why did you present it as such an important

point in your original and subsequent posts up until this one?

Raven

May 20, 2009

If a troll is polite and refrains from making personal attacks then I am guilty of being a troll. If a troll is a person who does not run away from criticism, then I am a troll. If ASAN-AU does not like my behaviour, they can ask me to leave, as can the owner of this group.

harassment

gprobertson wrote: "lol I don't think I can be accused of being afraid of heat. I am still in the kitchen and I have attracted plenty of heat."

Thank you for finally admitting that you are a troll.

Is is the way that ASAN wants its members to act in other people's online forums?

Raven

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Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

May 20, 2009

I look forward to seeing his responses. :-)

Re: harassment

"so am i one of the members whose behaviour and history you want to question?"

What I asked Ari (among other things) was:

1) Whether or not you are a representative of ASAN.

2) Whether or not you were given the responsibility of giving a letter to Tony Attwood on ASAN's behalf.

3) Whether or not he is aware of your behavior on this forum.

4) Whether or not this behavior typifies that of the ASAN organization.

I also asked for a status report on certain things Ari and I were supposed to be working on together, namely:

1) A joint operation against an autsm organization's refusal to allow anyone other than Autism Spekaks to speak to Aspies at their meetings. Months ago, Ari said he would assist us with this by providing an ASAN representative to contact the organization in question and negotiate a satisfactory outcome. He never did. 2) The publication of a paper Ari asked me to write for him on autism and bullying. He has received the paper months ago, but failed to publish it. 3)The listing of MIC on the Ransom Notes request in exchange for our e-mail list. He took the e-mail list to expand his organization with, but failed to list us as signatures on the petition. And so you can see why I find the crediblity of ASAN disturbing, especially in light of your behavior on this forum.

Administrator

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Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

May 20, 2009

" I look forward to seeing his responses. :-) "

So do I. At preesent, he has not answered.

But I've known Ari since ASAN was in it's conceptualization phase. I'm sure

he'll get back to me eventually.

Administrator

May 20, 2009

gprobertson wrote: "If a troll is polite and refrains from making personal attacks then I am guilty of being a troll ... <snip> ... "

You have not been polite and you have not refrained from making personal attacks. In fact, you have defamed more than one person in your postings in this forum.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... If a troll is a person who does not run away from criticism, then I am a troll ... <snip> ... "

Everytime you are called on your claims that can be disproven with facts, you sidestep the issue which is the same as running away. While we aren't necessarily criticizing you when some of us ask for clarificaton of your comments or your stand on various issues, you still run away without answerings questions.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... If ASAN-AU does not like my behaviour, they can ask me to leave ... <snip> ... "

It's not certain that you ARE, in fact, a member of ASAN-AU. We only have your posts claiming this and I, for one, haven't bothered to look up the names of people whom the media has reported as being members of ASAN-AU.

I do know that for quite some time now, the ASAN-AU website has claimed:

Please be advised that we are undergoing an Incorporation process with Officer Bearers to be announced in the New Year 2009

May 20, 2009

I reckon if you know him so well, he will reply. He hardly knows me though. Would you like some urls for the other places I frequent on the net? You might get more information about me faster.

Re: harassment

"I look forward to seeing his responses. :-)"

So do I. At preesent, he has not answered. But I've known Ari since ASAN was in it's conceptualization phase. I'm sure he'll get back to me eventually.

Administrator

------------------------------------

May 20, 2009

" I reckon if you know him so well, he will reply. He hardly knows me though.

Would you like some urls for the other places I frequent on the net. You might

get more information about me faster.

http://www.starlink-irc.org/java/java_williamslake.html?chan=#A4

http://a4.org.au/a4/

http://kildall.apana.org.au/ozautism/

http://www.asperger-qld.websyte.com.au/

" If you want more, just let me know. "

Unnecessary.

Administrator

May 20, 2009

We are having problems incorporating due to the complexity of having members of the executive residing in different states. Under Australian law, it is much easier and less expensive to incorporate if the organization operates out of one state, however I take your point that this is not good enough.

re personal attacks. I do not know anyone here, but I neither trawl through their histories on the net and nor do I consider them to be liars. I think I treat people quite well, considering that a minority here call me a liar and try to find evidence of my awful character on the net. It has been slim pickings so far but I am sure you can fix that. Perhaps try Autism Treehouse. I used to post there a few years ago.

Re: harassment

gprobertson wrote: "If a troll is polite and refrains from making personal attacks then I am guilty of being a troll ... <snip> ... "

You have not been polite and you have not refrained from making personal attacks. In fact, you have defamed more than one person in your postings in this forum.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... If a troll is a person who does not run away from criticism, then I am a troll ... <snip> ... "

Everytime you are called on your claims that can be disproven with facts, you sidestep the issue which is the same as running away. While we aren't necessarily criticizing you when some of us ask for clarificaton of your comments or your stand on various issues, you still run away without answerings questions.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... If ASAN-AU does not like my behaviour, they can ask me to leave ... <snip> ... "

It's not certain that you ARE, in fact, a member of ASAN-AU. We only have your posts claiming this and I, for one, haven't bothered to look up the names of people whom the media has reported as being members of ASAN-AU.

I do know that for quite some time now, the ASAN-AU website has claimed:

Please be advised that we are undergoing an Incorporation process with Officer Bearers to be announced in the New Year 2009

May 20, 2009

gproberston wrote: " I reckon if you know him so well, he will reply. He hardly

knows me though. Would you like some urls for the other places I frequent on

the net? You might get more information about me faster. "

And to think how upset you were with us when information regarding your

interview with Donna was mentioned in this forum!

Now you're forthcoming with information rather than irate? I find that VERY

interesting indeed.

Raven

May 20, 2009

A chat room and three websites that don't mention you are hardly anything to

mention, gprobertson. More of that means nothing. Surely you can do better

than that. But it really is unnecessary.

Raven

>

> " I reckon if you know him so well, he will reply. He hardly knows me though.

Would you like some urls for the other places I frequent on the net. You might

get more information about me faster.

>

> http://www.starlink-irc.org/java/java_williamslake.html?chan=#A4

> http://a4.org.au/a4/

> http://kildall.apana.org.au/ozautism/

> http://www.asperger-qld.websyte.com.au/

>

> " If you want more, just let me know. "

May 20, 2009

gprobertson wrote: "We are having problems incorporating due to the complexity of having members of the executive residing in different states. Under Australian law, it is much easier and less expensive to incorporate if the organization operates out of one state ... <snip> ... "

It's like that in America and in Canada, not just in Australia. That being said, ASAN-AU hasn't incorporated yet (no big deal) but they also do not have any contact information other than a free-mail address (not even Katharine's name included) that one would expect to find on a website of this magnitude.

gproberston wrote: " ... <snip> ... however I take your point that this is not good enough ... <snip> ... "Not if you want to be taken seriously it isn't.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... re personal attacks. I do not know anyone here, but I neither trawl through their histories on the net and nor do I consider them to be liars ... <snip> ... "

No one generally goes "trawl[ing] through [member's] histories" unless the member gives others reason to go looking for information on the individual.

Outrageous claims as well as support and defence of treatments that are unproven or disproven are usually red flags that a troll is among us. That warrants a closer look at the member than if the individual is merely behaving as a part of the group.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I think I treat people quite well, considering that a minority here call me a liar and try to find evidence of my awful character on the net ... <snip> ... "

I think the way you treat people is appalling as evidenced again most recently by your defamatory portrayal of Tony Attwood.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... It has been slim pickings so far but I am sure you can fix that ... <snip> ... "

Maybe you believe so because everything that is known about you hasn't been posted in this forum.

You have proven time and again that when you are confronted with the truth of your presence online, you deny it until members are forced to post proof. Then you try to slip-slide-away on the matter, especially if it has to do with supporting and defending unproven and disproven treatments for Autistics.

gproberston wrote: " ... <snip> ... Perhaps try Autism Treehouse. I used to post there a few years ago ... <snip> ... "

LOL! And this from a woman who denied being banned from online Autism groups and then admitted to one ban (for a reason other than what the reason was) and then admitted to 2 or 3 bans when faced with proof and eventually fessed up to more than the 2 or 3 bans. Honestly, gprobertson! :-D

Best wishes for the Conference next week. I hope your presentations are well received.

Raven

May 21, 2009

Yup. We are an email group at this stage.

Re: harassment

gprobertson wrote: "We are having problems incorporating due to the complexity of having members of the executive residing in different states. Under Australian law, it is much easier and less expensive to incorporate if the organization operates out of one state ... <snip> ... "

It's like that in America and in Canada, not just in Australia. That being said, ASAN-AU hasn't incorporated yet (no big deal) but they also do not have any contact information other than a free-mail address (not even Katharine's name included) that one would expect to find on a website of this magnitude.

gproberston wrote: " ... <snip> ... however I take your point that this is not good enough ... <snip> ... "

Not if you want to be taken seriously it isn't.