Re: To GP: A note on advocacy

[Guest guest]

"There are members here who actually believe autism is caused by vaccines, and that chelation is a great remedy for autism. When they post, Raven and I usually counter with articles stating the scientific and researched point of view and leave it at that. We know that these people are either ignorant, or for egotistical reasons, they are clinging to these theories. "

The highlighted sentence above made me think of a video I recently watched on YouTube called "Open Mindedness". Although it speaks about asking for evidence to make a case proving the supernatural, I find the author's need for facts quite similar and the reaction of those whom he/she speaks of in the video.

Those who question nothing may find themselves taking in false information and then becoming stubborn, refusing the truth. Interesting. I am sure that many here have found themselves in the same situations presented in the video.

Kim

[Guest guest]

I like this video. Raven and I watched it together. She likes it too.

Administrator

The highlighted sentence above made me think of a video I recently watched on

YouTube called " Open Mindedness " . Although it speaks about asking for evidence

to make a case proving the supernatural, I find the author's need for facts

quite similar and the reaction of those whom he/she speaks of in the video.

[Guest guest]

I agree with much of what you say here and I think that there are very strong echos in my story. The problem is that I cannot reply without compounding the dissent and apparent anger at my position. For example I have stated many times that chelation is a cure for mercury poisoning, not autism. I stated that I had considered chelation as I have a high level of mercury toxicity due to broken fillings but I felt that chelation was too dangerous. That does not sound like the words of a person who promotes chelation as a cure for autism. People refuse to take what I say as my opinion so I am caught in a trap. If I disagree, I am disruptive. If I don't say anything, it is on record that I promote chelation as a cure for autism. What do you advise me to do?

I did not mind that my interview with Donna was discussed. I minded that people said I had a lot of influence over people regarding autism. I do express my opinions. I am strong about them. I do not have the charisma or communicative persuasiveness to be the influence I would like. I do not have the stamina to work and speak on a regular basis. You and Raven provide very public influence and I think that is great. I am able to provide more influence in working very practically with a small group of people in this region. I think people need to do what they do best so that all our efforts combined become a multi pronged effort to bring about change.

Many teachers have worked with thousands of children. This is not an achievement in the world of education. It is a fact. I am open about being a teacher with AS and I am open about the difficulties I face and the things I do to cope. Children are very receptive to the fact that an adult is having difficulties. That is my influence but it is not significant in terms of what people like yourselves, Donna, Temple, , and Tony Lang (who inspired me to reject the victim mode) et al have achieved. I am ok with that. I do the best I can do and the small amount of speaking that I do is my effort to go outside my comfort zone.

I too do not belong to very militant groups because some of the members frighten me with their rage and desire for revenge. I understand it but I do not want to be a part of it. I went through a period of rage at what had happened to me in life because I lacked the knowledge of autism that would have helped me. I am past that now. I also hold some opinions that might be in common with them but I do not think parents are evil just because they are not autistic. I do not think autistics are saints just because of their neurology. I am ok with people doing some things I agree with and some things I don't like and I know that there are people who are ok with me in the same way. I also know that because a number of autistics are very black and white in their thinking, that my differences can be very annoying to them. I have the same difficulty and I try to cognitively balance my opinions with evidence that they are not 100% bad people. I find it hard but it is a helpful thing to do. I stay here because I think you might be doing something similar. I am not certain.

I also believe in looking at our characteristics, but I do not believe in doing that at the expense of balancing that with the fact that nobody is perfect. One problem I have is that I often point out to non autistic people that for example, just as I have difficulty reading their body language and intuiting their intentions, they have difficulty with mine. People simply cannot tell my emotions from my behaviour. Also, when I am told that I should not be a parent or teacher because I lack empathy, I state that it is true. However I work very hard to be compassionate and that should count too and be valued. I know plenty of people who have the capacity for empathy and compassion and who use neither. When it comes to relationships, I agree that autistics can be difficult people, however non autistics can be difficult too. In my own second marriage, the more I was pressed to entertain my husbands business contacts, the more I needed time alone to recover. With no dx or knowledge of autism (I was dxd at 49), we had no possibility of working out problems. Our relationship deteriorated to the point that I could not bring myself to have sexual contact with him. I am a very sexual person, so when I see people insist that autistics are not interested in sex, I acknowledge that is true (as it is for many non autistic people) but also, depression and misery can change the need for intimacy (as for many non autistic people). I feel sad and upset to see that people who talk about autistic relationships rarely seem to explore the cause of the dissents and often attribute problems to autistic characteristics. That is true sometimes, but in a relationship between autistic and non autistic partners, the problem can be a collision of difference rather than the characteristics of either one or the other.

I guess what I want for advocacy is for people to look at autistics and see similarities, although I acknowledge that often we are more extreme. I also want them to understand the differences and meet us half way. That is what people in healthy relationships do. It is what people in healthy workplaces do. it does not happen in many autistics lives and I believe that both parties need to learn and accommodate each other. I often get slammed in autistic both autistic and non autistic forums for that perspective. I rarely go to forums these days because so many are polarized. I originally joined this one because it sounded as if there was a similar perspective here.

My bans are for a number of reasons. From my perspective, some have been from my feeling that I should stand up for what i think is right. For example, I was banned from one forum where people insisted that they were in danger of rape from strangers. I told them that more people are sexually assaulted by people they know. I would not back down from that opinion although it really upset some people. I think that autistics need to know the facts so they can be alert and protect themselves and their children effectively. I don't know why people did not want to hear this message, but I am ok with the ban because at least I got to say it and perhaps some of the forum members will remember and take note.

I have never said there is a treatment that works for autism. I suspect a treatment would work against autism because my autistic characteristics that cause me so many problems also are the reason for my achievements. Perseveration is one. It causes me massive difficulties. I drive people crazy with my singleminded pursuit of some things at the expense of others. However, it got me through university with very high marks. I had three children, no family support and I also had to work to get enough money to live on. This sounds like bragging but actually, getting through university, once I had started was not an option for me. I was compelled by my perseveration to the point where successful study became an obsession. I think a few Autistics can relate to that. Once I had finished university, I was lost. Life was very hard until another driving passion came along.

I would agree that my accounts can be confusing. I think that is partly because of the medium of email and partly because I do not know what information is required by readers to understand my opinions and what is not. It does frustrate me that people put interpretations on my words that are not intended. I find it hard to remember that I might be doing the same to them. One thing I get very upset about is when people refuse to take my explanations in good faith or even admit the possibility that I might be telling the truth. How can a person communicate if they know before hand that they are considered a liar and that every word will be examined? I went to one forum member''s personal site and found a lot of things that I could bring up and challenge. I would not do that because I am also aware that the things I saw might well be matters of opinion or the way the person expressed him/her self. I do know the gender but I do not want to indicate whose site I went to in the interest of not causing an argument.

"Nor have I lied to members. I think my integrity as an advocate would be compromised had I done

so. "

Many people dislike me for a range of reasons. Fortunately for me, liking is not a major priority in my life although when it occurs, it is pleasant. In my real life and my online life people don't call me a liar. I realize that this is not going to change here and this is my reason for leaving. I am not a liar. Unlike you and raven, I make genuine mistakes. I get things right and I get things wrong. One of my faults is that I am unable to hide my thoughts and feelings. Another fault is that I am unable to pretend or to stay quiet in order to belong. Another fault is that I try to see the good in people and accept that we are not all bad, so I don't expend a great deal of energy searching out people's flaws.

cya.

To GP: A note on advocacy

Over the months I have actually devoted more time than you would guess thinking about the tussles going back and forth between you and some of the members here, including myself. Though I cannot speak for others here, I wanted to point out a few things which probably explain why it is I, at least, have a difference of opinion with you. For me personally, it revolves around advocacy and the responsibilities associated therewith.

I came to the online autism world after diagnosis and circulated as a forum member on other forums, and initially, I was not particularly interested in what was happening in the lives of other autistics. When other people used to post articles in the forums I attended, articles which spoke of the mistreatment or abuse of autistics, I thought "That's bad," but was not motivated to actually do anything about it. When autistics began to talk about how they were discriminated against, or mistreated by family members, their places of employment, or their schools, I began to feel for them, and read more stories of abuse online.

Then I began to take a more active interest in things. I knew I could make a difference, but was not sure how. I began doing things like signing petitions, and writing the occasional letter. For a while, this was satisfactory. However, once I began to actually research autism, its origins, and its symptoms, I began to take a different view. Ironically, it was talking with Donna that caused me to realize that some objectivity was in order because I find some of her own views to be out of keeping with established science. My desire to advocate was motivated by my desire to set the record straight on some issues - issues that were already confused by established advocates, such as Donna. (Don't get me wrong, Donna has done much for the autistic community. But on some issues, she is just dead wrong).

I have never liked militancy as a way of promoting one's cause. I find one organization (not ASAN) to be motivated primarily by gut feelings of rage, hatred, the desire for revenge, and the want to stick it to them! I believe that the best way to advocate is to take a close look at who we (as a group) really are, which includes looking at our outstanding good and bad characteristics. By virtue of our being autistic, we have a lot to contribute to society. And by virtue of our being autistic, we are a drain on society. We take much away. Knowing this means that if we are going to advocate for ourselves, in my opinion, we need to ask for what we need in exchange for giving back to society in a way that benefits it. This is hard to do sometimes given that we feel imposed upon. It is a hard thing to do for someone who feels they are oppressed to have to give or give up even more, but this is something that we must sometimes do. For us to be respected as advocates, we must face up to who we are as individuals. That means we need to look at our personal faults as well as our personal attributes. We must either change the bad things about ourselves or accept them. We can strive to improve ourselves, or we can stay the way we are. But no matter what we do, we must recognize that no one is going to take us seriously unless we act and appear respectable to other people. To date, I have been banned from one forum, but aside from the general annoyance of people not knowing the true story of WHY, I am actually happy that I was, because I stood up for what I believed in, even if it meant losing contact with many of my online friends. Since then I have joined with other forum owners, other advocates in the autism community, autism organizations, and very well-known autistics to work in a positive manner to raise awareness for autism and to improve the lives of autistics.

One stumbling block which I run into constantly is the rsentment NTs have for stubborn autistics who use grandstanding, smear-campaigns, fillibusters, or all or nothing tactics to get what they want. It's a stumbling block because before I can do anything for autism, I have to first disprove the pre-existing prejudice that all autistics are either

A) Retards, or

Functional militant extremists who have no idea what it is really like to have TRUE autism where people suffer all their lives until they die. Sometimes I feel people like yourself perpetuate the second prejudice.

It is the way you give accounts of things that confuse people. You indicate that you have influenced thousands of autistic children, but a few months later you claim not to be influential at all. Sometimes you have claimed or indicated yourself to be an authority in one area or another. And when we make mention that you have been interviewed by Donna , you get upset over the revelation of that fact.

You have done lecturing, yet you have no idea that chelation only works for people who have true metal toxicity and not autism. You claim not to be influential, yet you were a member of the A4 steering committee and have claimed to represent ASAN. Even so, you do not know that the natural progression of autism is one of waves of improvement juxtaposed with waves of decline and that no treatment works for autism.

You have been banned from many different forums for your behavior, yet you insist that everyone else was wrong and that THEIR perspective is out of joint. In the matter of A4, if you were in fact on that steering committee, I can see why you were banned based upon your behavior here. No one who asks you a question can get a straight answer out of you, and when you do give a straight answer, it differs from an answer you have previously given. What are your true views? And do they have any basis in fact? I can see why A4 would have barred you (can't speak for why the others would have been barred) because it seems that despite the fact that you are autistic, you have not really bothered to learn anything about autism's origins, what causes it, and what treatments are quack or not. A position of advocacy exists whenever you try to get something for yourself or for others. This is what you are doing with your membership in ASAN and your position on the A4 steering committee. It behooves those who advocate for others to know what they are talking about so they do not accidentally hurt those they are advocating for. Further, a failure to know what you are talking about places responsible advocates in a position where they stand to lose their credibility by their association with you. If you were on the A4 committee, chances are you were let go for these reasons. Before I do a podcast, I do the research. Even when I am not drafting a podcast, I research autism almost daily, constantly updating myself on scientific progress as well as junk science. I monitor the autism political issues going on, and the abuses against autistics as well as the successes they achieve. This forum is exactly what it purports to be: A forum. It means people can come in here and say and do pretty much as they wish provided they obey the rules given to them upon joining, which are laid out in the FAQ database. That means we can say what we want they way we want to. We can get upset with one another if we wish. We can let our emotions out. Yet at the same time, one thing I have never done is infuse the forum with misinformation, or information that has NOT proven to be factual. (I have of course posted articles about quack science and what have you, but in all cases, the intent was to show that the quack science was indeed quack.) Nor have I lied to members. I think my integrity as an advocate would be compromised had I done so. And this is why Raven and I have a problem with you. Your personae tends to change every time you participate. What you say now almost always contradicts something you said awhile ago. You, by your ignorance, provide misinformation about certain autism treatments. It is, frankly, scary, that -at A4 or ASAN-AU- you are in a position where you can press or influence or motivate others to determine what is right or wrong for autistics when your behavior here is precisely the kind which makes NTs despise functional autistics. This is why Raven and I are more likely to press you on issues than just some member who has no influence in the autism community. There are members here who actually believe autism is caused by vaccines, and that chelation is a great remedy for autism. When they post, Raven and I usually counter with articles stating the scientific and researched point of view and leave it at that. We know that these people are either ignorant, or for egotistical reasons, they are clinging to these theories. But for someone like you, who has substantial influence in the autism world, I believe it is important to hold you to higher standards so that you don't due harm to others by your ignorance.

You have a track record of gtting banned from all sorts of forums, and you have a history here of causing consternation. My hope is that you would see this past as a track record that could be changed, at this instant. You could move forward in a more positive direction, by doing the research, getting the facts straight, being who you say you are. My opinion anyway.

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[Guest guest]

"I agree with much of what you say here and I think that there are very strong echos in my story. The problem is that I cannot reply without compounding the dissent and apparent anger at my position. For example I have stated many times that chelation is a cure for mercury poisoning, not autism. I stated that I had considered chelation as I have a high level of mercury toxicity due to broken fillings but I felt that chelation was too dangerous. That does not sound like the words of a person who promotes chelation as a cure for autism. People refuse to take what I say as my opinion so I am caught in a trap. If I disagree, I am disruptive. If I don't say anything, it is on record that I promote chelation as a cure for autism. What do you advise me to do?"

Good point. And I cannot advise you, unforntunately. I think in point of suggestion is that a general solution to a lot of the problems here may be to attempt to state your position clearly and as a whole rather than murkily and in part. This is a difficult thing to do as it means anticipating what other people are thinking and torpedoing any doubts they may have without knowing what those doubt are.

Doubting on the part of others is going to happen whether YOU think you have been clear or not, which is why I allow people to doubt each other here. To simply shut off the discussion when there is no doubt in MY mind about truth or falsity is unfair to everyone else who may still have doubts in their own minds.

With THAT said, there does come a point when it is probably evident to the consensus of whatever people the population consists of that a statement is true or untrue, or that a statement is truthful or falsity. When that happens, I am willing to terminate a discussion.

Personally, I hate being placed in the role as judge and adjudicator. In those situations, I am quite happy to let discussions roll on as people continue questioning, because I must admit that the some of the they pose may be questions I myself have. Letting them ask their questions means that I don't have to be the bad guy ALL OF THE TIME.

"I did not mind that my interview with Donna was discussed. I minded that people said I had a lot of influence over people regarding autism. I do express my opinions. I am strong about them. I do not have the charisma or communicative persuasiveness to be the influence I would like. I do not have the stamina to work and speak on a regular basis. You and Raven provide very public influence and I think that is great. I am able to provide more influence in working very practically with a small group of people in this region. I think people need to do what they do best so that all our efforts combined become a multi pronged effort to bring about change."

Well, okay. In your opinion you do not hold sway or influence over many people. But in my opinion you do. We could battle on over this and start listing categorically exact numbers and whatnot, but I do not think that would serve any purpose because we would still be in disagreement over this.

Here is the way I see it regarding YOUR influence over people:

1) You do indeed speak/give lectures in front of audiences sometimes

2) You do indeed work with small groups of autistics.

3) You have done an interview with Donna .

My points:

1) If you make your views known to people via speaking engagements, you will influence them, and they may be motivated enough to influence others, and so on, like a rolling rock turning into an avalanche on a hillside. So for that reason alone, you have a responsibility to be careful what you say and how you say it.

2) When dealing one on one or with small groups, you have just as much responsibility if not more because time spent with them is more influential than just throwing words into a mass of people. When you deal with people one on one or in small groups, these people are more likely to put their faith in you and trust you than are those who don't know you and cannot connect with you.

3) Though most people outside of the autism world have no idea who Donna is, anyone who has familiarized themselves with autism and who has looked into it somewhat is likely to come across her, Temple Grandin, Tony Attwood, and Simon Baron-Cohen in their researches. Donna is probably the most well known of all of them.

Knowing people, especially NTs, the way I do, they will, unfortunately, ascribe "fame" and, therefore "authority" to anyone like those four, and they will further ascribe a lesser degree of fame to those these "famous" people felt highly enough to interview.

You were interviewed.

Thus people will ascribe worth and value to you whether or not you are actually worthy of those attributes. If they revere Donna , they will revere you moreso than they would someone who hasn't been interviewed by Donna.

Thus you have influence over other people whether or not you know it, and whether or not you want it. I think people can be forgiven for not knowing that they are influential or that they are considered such. I myself was surprised and shocked the first time someone asked me for my autograph.

You and I, who know people like Donna and Tony or whomever personally (also Ari), know that they are just everday people like you and I doing everday things. But they have managed to get attention for themselves, more or less accidentally, as the result of writing books, giving lectures, or whatever.

The "public influence" that Raven and I provide is far-reaching, being world wide, but it is no less influential than yours is, because while we are reaching many people around the world in one way, you are reaching many people around thew world in another way.

Ergo we are all reaching and influencing people around the world, and so we all must be responsible about what we do with out with that influence.

More on this point in a bit...

"Many teachers have worked with thousands of children. This is not an achievement in the world of education. It is a fact. I am open about being a teacher with AS and I am open about the difficulties I face and the things I do to cope. Children are very receptive to the fact that an adult is having difficulties. That is my influence but it is not significant in terms of what people like yourselves, Donna, Temple, , and Tony Lang (who inspired me to reject the victim mode) et al have achieved."

It IS as significant though. (See above.) This is what drives the intensity of my responses to your posts sometimes.

"I am ok with that. I do the best I can do and the small amount of speaking that I do is my effort to go outside my comfort zone."

No one expects you to go outside your comfort zone. No one expects you to do more than you are capable of doing. But what the people who follow you expect is that you are not going to lead them astray. And the people who work as your fellow advocates, whether you acknowledge them as such or not -these people being Ari, Tony, Donna, Temple, Simon, Raven, myself, and others etc., expect that you are going to refrain making their jobs harder for all of us by saying or doing something that may impugn all of us.

I will admit that right now, I am upset with Ari for going after Attwood, and I am looking forward to his letter explaining his reasoning. Make no mistake, I am well aware of the press recognition Ari has. I am aware of the number of chapters ASAN has, and I am aware of its membership and sponsors. I suppose if Ari had fewer morals, he could simply use all that to his advantage and fry me or anyone else he believes is getting in his way, but this threat is not going to prevent me from questioning what he is doing until he presents evidence that there is -to my mind- good reason for what he is doing.

I have even questioned Donna on what I consider to be some boneheaded moves on her part.

And if any of these people, including Attwood, do something that I consider boneheaded, I would question them as well.

"I too do not belong to very militant groups because some of the members frighten me with their rage and desire for revenge. I understand it but I do not want to be a part of it. I went through a period of rage at what had happened to me in life because I lacked the knowledge of autism that would have helped me. I am past that now. I also hold some opinions that might be in common with them but I do not think parents are evil just because they are not autistic. I do not think autistics are saints just because of their neurology. I am ok with people doing some things I agree with and some things I don't like and I know that there are people who are ok with me in the same way. I also know that because a number of autistics are very black and white in their thinking, that my differences can be very annoying to them. I have the same difficulty and I try to cognitively balance my opinions with evidence that they are not 100% bad people. I find it hard but it is a helpful thing to do. I stay here because I think you might be doing something similar. I am not certain."

I can relate to the dilemma you face, but what causes me to be a bit more decisive than you -and without the guilt you may face which may prevent you from going after someone whom you believe might be wrong- is that I have thoroughly examined the issues and decided where I stand. Kim posted a link about open-mindedness and the video best expresses my point of view on autism. I will and have been known to change my views based on new facts, but the opinions I hold are ones that I am sure of until they can be factually disproven. I am also sure of my convictions about autism, autistics, and NTs. While I cannot exactly state that I know what all autistics want, I can certainly say that I have a conception of what most of them want, and it is for these people whom I advocate for. I can accept that other people have different views, and I can accept that people may decide to advocate for issues which I disagree with, but I cannot and do not accept when any advocate either makes a poor name for all of us, or says or does something which may negatively affects us all.

"I feel sad and upset to see that people who talk about autistic relationships rarely seem to explore the cause of the dissents and often attribute problems to autistic characteristics. That is true sometimes, but in a relationship between autistic and non autistic partners, the problem can be a collision of difference rather than the characteristics of either one or the other."

A word of advice: Let the emotions become the energy you draw from for your advocacy, but do not let them impair or control your advocacy.

If I read an article about autism where someone claims to understand an autistic's behavior but who in reality does not (such as a biographical piece on Lovaas for example) I get very angry, because it is clear that Lovaas has no conception of what autism is, and his methods (which ABA has been founded upon) do nothing but turn autistics into obedient Skinner rats. As an environmentalist, I am aware of zoologists training apes using The Lovaas Method because it is just as effective on those lesser creatures than it is on humans who are left with no choice but to obey or get tortured.

So what am I going to do about it? Am I going to send a registered letter to everyone who practices ABA and ask them to knock it off, or sign some declaration that they do not agree with ABA? Or...

Am I going to rant about it in this forum, but then draft and release with Raven a bunch of podcasts on the psychology and presentation of autism so that people who listen to them get a better idea of what autism is.

You see, the credibility is not gained by flattening the opposition. The credibility is gained by making yourself a respected authority.

It could be, for example, that all those autistics that got booted off of A4's steering committee are the truly knowledgeable ones, but right now, they look like a bunch of pouting, tantrummy babies, and the more ASAN-AU puts out idiotic statements like the one you showed us, the more it works to A4's advantage to have gotten rid of these supposed autistic dissenters.

"I guess what I want for advocacy is for people to look at autistics and see similarities, although I acknowledge that often we are more extreme. I also want them to understand the differences and meet us half way. That is what people in healthy relationships do. It is what people in healthy workplaces do."

Thren ask yourself this: Is the healthy way to do that to whine and pule when you get thrown off an A4 committee, and try to bang on the door to regain admission? Who will let you in if you;ve got a track record of being thrown off message boards, having wishy-washy stances, and changing what you are advocating as you "learn more."

You need to do the researhc, figure out what you stand for, and then work to make yourself a credible resource.

"It does not happen in many autistics lives and I believe that both parties need to learn and accommodate each other."

You can believe that all you want, but it is not going to happen by itself. It won't even happen with the laws and things ASAN is trying to get passed. Look at segregation. Whites hated blacks. When segregation ended, and whites and blacks could sit wherever they wanted to on buses, drink at the same fountains, eat at the same diners, etc., do you think that ended the hatred?

Nope.

Blacks in the US were and still are discriminated against. They are not discriminated against as much now however. Now why do you suppose THAT is?

It's because blacks have struggled to make themselves "respectable" in the eyes of those who hated them so.

Let's make no mistake. Blacks always were and always ARE respectable. But for the people prejudiced against them, they need CONVINCING. And unfortunately, the only ones that can do the convincing are African Americans themselves.

As far as autistics go, they are considered "retards" by some, "slow" by others, "handicapped" by others, etc. We are hated by many.

Well, we can get all the laws passed we want. We can clamour to be our own minority group, etc., but until we start behaving like respectable people, we aren't going to get anywhere. They may pass laws, but only out of pity, and only to get us to shut up.

Wouldn't it be worth more if people just GAVE us what we need without us having to ask for it? To do that requires that we get people to understand us, and for them to want to get close enough to do that, we have to be respectable looking to them.

"I often get slammed in both autistic and non autistic forums for that perspective. I rarely go to forums these days because so many are polarized. I originally joined this one because it sounded as if there was a similar perspective here."

Personally, I am somewhere in the middle. I think we need accommodations, but I think autistics need to work harder to get them. I also think that many of the things autistics are asking to have handed to them are things they could be earning or acquiring on their own without the help of anyone.

You will find no militants here. You will find those who are lower functioning though who need a lot of assistance. There are those who live in assisted living. One member who has posted recently is a longtime member here. You will also find those who are completely self-sufficient. There are three or four who hold "fame".

"My bans are for a number of reasons. From my perspective, some have been from my feeling that I should stand up for what i think is right. For example, I was banned from one forum where people insisted that they were in danger of rape from strangers. I told them that more people are sexually assaulted by people they know. I would not back down from that opinion although it really upset some people."

Good for you. It happens to be true.

"I think that autistics need to know the facts so they can be alert and protect themselves and their children effectively. I don't know why people did not want to hear this message, but I am ok with the ban because at least I got to say it and perhaps some of the forum members will remember and take note."

Yep. "I have never said there is a treatment that works for autism. I suspect a treatment would work against autism because my autistic characteristics that cause me so many problems also are the reason for my achievements. Perseveration is one. It causes me massive difficulties. I drive people crazy with my singleminded pursuit of some things at the expense of others. However, it got me through university with very high marks. I had three children, no family support and I also had to work to get enough money to live on. This sounds like bragging but actually, getting through university, once I had started was not an option for me. I was compelled by my perseveration to the point where successful study became an obsession. I think a few Autistics can relate to that. Once I had finished university, I was lost. Life was very hard until another driving passion came along."

Okay.

"I would agree that my accounts can be confusing. I think that is partly because of the medium of email and partly because I do not know what information is required by readers to understand my opinions and what is not. It does frustrate me that people put interpretations on my words that are not intended. I find it hard to remember that I might be doing the same to them. One thing I get very upset about is when people refuse to take my explanations in good faith or even admit the possibility that I might be telling the truth."

Yes, well, you have a tendency to say on thing and then state something that opposes your previous point of view in subsequent posts. Also, you may say something, and then when WE say you said something, you deny you said it, or you claim the meaning we took from your words was not the intended meaning. So fine, be precise the first time. Say exactly what you mean in a way that is commonly accepted by the majority of people so that the majority will interpret you correctly. Problem solved.

"How can a person communicate if they know before hand that they are considered a liar and that every word will be examined?"

You were not considered a liar without cause. Though it would be foolish to assume that ANYONE online is who they say they are, most people are willing to trust that people are honest. But when there are contradictions and questionable behavior from the start, and when those contradictions and that behavior persists, people are no longer willing to trust that what you say is automatically the truth.

"I went to one forum member's personal site and found a lot of things that I could bring up and challenge. I would not do that because I am also aware that the things I saw might well be matters of opinion or the way the person expressed him/her self. I do know the gender but I do not want to indicate whose site I went to in the interest of not causing an argument."

I know quite a bit about the members here, although I tend not to go snooping unless I feel I have cause. That is why I did a Google search when I felt some of your posts were problematic. I suppose if I wanted to, I could pick fights with a lot of people here, but if you keep in mind that the core focus of this forum is merely for people to discuss issues, not to assault their personal beliefs, than I have no reason to start those fights.

In your case, when you say you have some influence, no matter what its width or breath, if I feel I want some assurance that you are telling the truth, i will Google you or whatever.

"Many people dislike me for a range of reasons. Fortunately for me, liking is not a major priority in my life although when it occurs, it is pleasant. In my real life and my online life people don't call me a liar."

I recognize there is a difference between real life and online. I am diffierent in person than I am in this forum.

"I realize that this is not going to change here and this is my reason for leaving. I am not a liar. Unlike you and raven, I make genuine mistakes. I get things right and I get things wrong. One of my faults is that I am unable to hide my thoughts and feelings. Another fault is that I am unable to pretend or to stay quiet in order to belong. Another fault is that I try to see the good in people and accept that we are not all bad, so I don't expend a great deal of energy searching out people's flaws."

I know this is addressed at Raven, but I think you are playing for pity here. If you are quitting because you simply don't like it here, fine. That is your right. But I think you need to recognize that by virtue of you carrying some weight in the autism world (whether you beleive it or not) you will come under more scruitiny than others, as have I.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

The video is certainly thought provoking!renaissanzelady"My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God."(adapted from a poem by Smart)From: environmental1st2003 <no_reply >Subject: Re: To GP: A note on advocacyTo: FAMSecretSociety Received: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 3:54 PM

I like this video. Raven and I watched it together. She likes it too.

Administrator

The highlighted sentence above made me think of a video I recently watched on YouTube called "Open Mindedness". Although it speaks about asking for evidence to make a case proving the supernatural, I find the author's need for facts quite similar and the reaction of those whom he/she speaks of in the video.

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=T69TOuqaqXI

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[Guest guest]

renaissanzelady wrote: " The video is certainly thought provoking! "

It was well written, well presented and educational. I am going to send the

link to others I know who will be interested in viewing this video.

Raven

[Guest guest]

>

> I like this video. Raven and I watched it together. She likes it too.

>

>

> Administrator

I am glad I posted it then. QualiaSoup, the YouTube member who made

the video has more that I watched after I saw the first and just as

thought provoking. Home life is at an all time stressful high, thus

being awake at 1 am.

Been missing you all.

Kim