Re: Question about benzodiazapines

[Guest guest]

Hi BJ - I don't have much to offer in terms of medication advice, but know that

there are very experienced parents here that will. I just wanted to add my hope

that you feel better soon. You do so much for others, and it seems particularly

unfair that you are having so many challenges right now. It takes every bit of

my energy to cope with an extreme OCD onset, and I cannot imagine how you are

coping right now.

We have tried a therapy that did not work well for Meg independently, but she

could do it with help - it does work for me - it is called Acceptance therapy.

Perhaps Josh is old enough to practice this technique. Essentially, the tool is

to simply " observe " the anxiety (basically a less intense version of a panic

attack). You sit quietly, and just notice everything that is happening to your

body and mind. You might say to yourself " yes, I feel very anxious, my heart is

beating rapidly, my chest is tight, I feel like I can't breathe well. I don't

like this feeling, but I have felt it before and survived. It will pass soon.

This is just the feeling of anxiety and it will not last forever " . Then you

practice your deep breathing (which should be practiced ahead of time, breathing

in by raising your stomach, breathing out by lowering your stomach. You must

not breathe shallow in your chest). Learning to breathe during a panic attack

was very helpful to Meg, although at 6 & 7, she needed me to say the words with

her (she would repeat) and then I'd put my hand on her stomach & ask her to

breathe " In, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Out, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 " - all in a very calm voice.

This is also a very advanced tool for OCD - and it can be difficult to learn.

It also works very well for anxiety & Panic. For young children, they learn

visualization techniques such as imagining the anxiety on a bubble, and then

slowing watching the anxiety drifting away.

Generally, if not fed, anxiety will only last for 10-20 minutes. If you fight

it, it lasts much longer. Thus the term Acceptance therapy, as you learn to

embrace & observe the anxiety. Meg struggles with this as she is not a very

relaxed person in the best of times - she is a bundle of energy - and is she

very young for this kind of independent insight. So we tend to use other tools

for the OCD piece of the puzzle, and for her, the anxiety and panic then went

away. Classes that are suggested to learn and make these tools stronger are

Yoga and Meditation.

I want to add that I am only suggesting this because I know that Josh is already

very good at ERP therapy. For others, newer to OCD, ERP therapy is the first

choice for OCD - but adding in Relaxation or Acceptance can be very helpful for

more general anxiety, Panic, or even just as a tool to get ready to do the ERP

therapy, and to be able to withstand the anxiety that will be produced short

term.

Because we originally thought had Panic Disorder, we actually practiced

this technique with her for about 9 months, before we learned that she actually

had OCD, and began to learn other forms of ERP techniques more appropriate to

her age - and more specific exposures to her obsessions & compulsions. I think

all that practice ahead of time really helped her do the ERP.

My deep sympathy goes to Josh as well - this is a lot to deal with, poor kid.

>

> Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

>

> I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

>

> When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

>

> There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit

working. I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a

school year.

>

> Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

>

> BJ

>

[Guest guest]

What it does for lindsey is,it helps socially,and with her anxiety. She takes it

3 times a day know matter what and more if needed. She still has OCD and still

has anxiety,it helps a lot but did not cure her. 

When she was on a smaller dose it didnt do much. The good thing with her is,The

meds do not cause any sleepiness,its the opposite.

hugs,i feel for you

Jennie

Question about benzodiazapines

 

Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm hoping

he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit working. I

would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a school year.

Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

BJ

[Guest guest]

Hi BJ,

I have been taking klonopin for 20 years, and if I  don't take enough of it, it

won't work. I don't know what dosage Josh is on. He probably needs it raised.

SOmetimes certain benzos don't work for certain people. I took Xanax before and

it didn't work. My son  and dd took Ativan and it did nothing, so I think it's a

matter of the dosage and the med combined.

I hope things get better for you soon!

You will be in my thoughts and prayers!

Hugs

judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:40:15 PM

Subject: Question about benzodiazapines

 

Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm hoping

he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit working. I

would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a school year.

Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

BJ

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all your input, . I wish it was something he could use ERP

on. <sigh> With it not being attached to any thoughts or specific feelings,

it's impossible to target it and fight it.

On the other hand, that is partly why I want to get him back into his therapist,

who is on vacation this week. I can't help but wonder if Josh is hiding

something from me. He had mentioned that he didn't want to tell me he was even

having anxiety, because he didn't want to upset me, knowing all I'm going

through with my heart. If his fear is attached to his concerns that I could die

from this, (which unfortunately is a real concern), I don't think he would feel

comfortable telling me that. But, I know he would tell the therapist.

He's tried all the things you mentioned, but it seems to be at such a level, at

times, that it is too much for him. At other times, when it's less intense,

those things help.

He's even having a really hard time being distracted from it. Distractions

helped him immensely, in the past, when his OCD and GAD were out of control.

But this time, he says he has a hard time even focusing.

To muddy the waters even more, he was rear ended in a car wreck, on the freeway,

a couple of months back where his neck and back were hurt. He's being treated,

but the pain continues and I don't think that is helping anything.

Okay. . .Anyway, rambling here now.

Thanks for your input, .

BJ

> >

> > Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

> >

> > I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's

anxiety. He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular

situations, just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD.

He's already on 60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all

more manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

> >

> > When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made

it better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if

he needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

> >

> > There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit

working. I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a

school year.

> >

> > Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

> >

> > BJ

> >

>

[Guest guest]

They make Josh sleepy, which concerns me about him driving himself back and

forth to his class, if he has to take them.

I hate to take him out of his class, but there are days I cannot get off of the

sofa, so won't always be able to drive him either. And wouldn't you know, the

school is a half an hour from our house, one way. :o/

Isn't it frustrating that in spite of all that, she still has anxiety. Is she

also taking an antidepressant?

I'm glad it helps Lindsey some.

BJ

>

>

>

> What it does for lindsey is,it helps socially,and with her anxiety. She takes

it 3 times a day know matter what and more if needed. She still has OCD and

still has anxiety,it helps a lot but did not cure her. 

>

> When she was on a smaller dose it didnt do much. The good thing with her

is,The meds do not cause any sleepiness,its the opposite.

>

>

>

> hugs,i feel for you

>

>

>

>

>

> Jennie

> Question about benzodiazapines

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

>

> I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

>

> When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

>

> There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit working.

I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a school

year.

>

> Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

>

> BJ

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Judy. Thank you for your input. I truly appreciate it.

It is 0.5 mg tablets. I think that is the lowest dose. It is actually the meds

they prescribed him a few years back when he was so debilitated. But, yesterday

was sooooo bad, that we decided to have him try taking some to help him. In the

past, it helped more, but he was younger and smaller. Plus, I wonder if the

drugs have lost some of their potency, since they are a few years old.

I'm going to push to get him in to his doc tomorrow, to see if she can prescribe

something else, in hopes it will help.

I was so stressed last night that my heart started getting into some bad

rhythms. I was trying to hide it from him, not wanting to add to what he was

going through. I go this next week to see my electrophysiologist, to see what

my next step is. I hope something takes a turn for the better soon. This is

rough!

BJ

>

> Hi BJ,

> I have been taking klonopin for 20 years, and if I  don't take enough of it,

it won't work. I don't know what dosage Josh is on. He probably needs it raised.

SOmetimes certain benzos don't work for certain people. I took Xanax before and

it didn't work. My son  and dd took Ativan and it did nothing, so I think it's a

matter of the dosage and the med combined.

> I hope things get better for you soon!

> You will be in my thoughts and prayers!

> Hugs

> judy

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To:

> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:40:15 PM

> Subject: Question about benzodiazapines

>

>  

> Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

>

> I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

>

> When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

>

> There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit working.

I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a school

year.

>

> Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

>

> BJ

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kelley and Judy,

I called a pharmacy with the same question. I was told that they put a year

expiration on everything, but most meds are still good after that expiration

date. With some meds, like antibiotics, you have to be careful because they can

become dangerous. But, with others, they can just lose their potency somewhat.

I was told the Klonipin was safe, but might not be as potent.

I called the doc's office today (since they have a Sunday clinic) but she is

booked full tomorrow. Today was a bit better for Josh, but still not good. So,

I'm going to call first thing in the morning to see if they can squeeze him in.

We've got to try something to get this under control before it grows and takes

over completely.

Thanks for your input. I truly appreciate it.

Hugs,

BJ

> >

> > Hi BJ,

> > I have been taking klonopin for 20 years, and if I don't take enough of it,

it won't work. I don't know what dosage Josh is on. He probably needs it raised.

SOmetimes certain benzos don't work for certain people. I took Xanax before and

it didn't work. My son and dd took Ativan and it did nothing, so I think it's a

matter of the dosage and the med combined.

> > I hope things get better for you soon!

> > You will be in my thoughts and prayers!

> > Hugs

> > judy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: svdbyhislove <BJClosner@ ..>

> > To: @ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:40:15 PM

> > Subject: Question about benzodiazapines

> >

> >

> > Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

> >

> > I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's

anxiety. He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular

situations, just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's

already on 60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

> >

> > When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made

it better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

> >

> > There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit working.

I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a school

year.

> >

> > Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

> >

> > BJ

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It probably is the stress of college that is causing his anxiety. He must be in

the thick of his school work for the semester about now. Does he have

accommodations for the work? I remember that I once was really busy when in

graduate school (babies, work, ect) and I took an incomplete in 2 classes. Then

I sat through them again the next semester and then just took the final exam for

my grade. Wonder if it would help to slow the pace?

We have had a paradoxical reaction with Klonopin - it made my son much worse.

Things like antihistamines worked better, but they cause some drowsiness. Since

you have had good results in the past, perhaps it is the dose that should be

increased, and maybe a new SSRI would be beneficial.

I hope it gets better soon. SOrry to hear that you aren't feeling well.

Bonnie

>

> Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

>

> I'm starting to become concerned that they are barely touching Josh's anxiety.

He says his anxiety is not attached to any thoughts or particular situations,

just nondescript anxiety, so doesn't seem to be his OCD or GAD. He's already on

60 mg of Celexa, but thought the Klonipin would just make it all more

manageable, temporarily, until we can get back into the doc and therapist.

>

> When he took Klonipin before, it didn't make it go away either, but it made it

better. . easier. This time, it is barely making a difference. Not sure if he

needs a bigger dose, or what is going on.

>

> There's been so much stress here, with my heart, his car wreck, etc. I'm

hoping he's just on stress overload. My biggest fear is the Celexa quit

working. I would hate to have to try to switch meds on him in the middle of a

school year.

>

> Not being at my best, physically or mentally, I'm just not up for this. I'm

supposed to be lowering my stress, not sure how to do that with this going on.

>

> BJ

>

[Guest guest]

My 13-yr. old son took 2 mg. of Ativan last night for the first time to help

calm his anxiety at bedtime so he could sleep- I was sure he would finally get a

good night's sleep, but it didn't seem to have any effect at all- he almost

seemed MORE anxious. I was relieved to read that he is not the only one not

helped by a benzodiazepine. BJ, I sure hope Josh gets some relef from his

anxiety and pain from the car wreck soon, and that your heart will be OK. Wish

some of us lived near you so we could help!

Mer

>

> > Has anyone seen a situation where anti-anxiety meds (Klonipin) doesn't work?

[Guest guest]

Oy! I don't even want to think about college, Bonnie. He's a senior in high

school right now. He takes a computer gaming programming class with a

vocational high school (that he drives himself to), then for the rest, we

homeschool. Am I glad, too! Because I can adjust the schoolwork to accommodate

what he is going through.

He's actually supposed to take the ACT test in a couple of months. Now, I'm not

sure if he will be able to. And he was going to try for a full 4 year

scholarship at a school that his teacher was encouraging him to try for. Said

he had a really good chance of winning it. But, I'm not so sure about him

moving out. Not sure he is ready for it. And he would have to, to go to that

school.

We will see. Time will tell.

The Klonipin helped for Josh, this time, but not much at all. Anyway,

fortunately it didn't make it worse. It helped a lot more last time he took it

though. But, even then it didn't make the anxiety go completely away, just

lowered it to a more tolerable level. Back then, I assumed it didn't make it go

away because he had thoughts attached to his anxiety, and the Klonipin won't

help with thoughts. The way it was explained to us is that benzodiazapines will

help with the physical anxiety. But, this time, there is no thoughts attached

to the anxiety, so I guess I was hoping it would help more.

I put a call into his doc to try to get him in. I'm hoping she will prescribe

something else, or give us a new prescription, in case the potency just wasn't

good enough, being they were 3 years old.

And his therapist is getting him in next week. He wants to hold off on changing

any meds until he sees him. That is fine with me. A med change in the middle

of a school year would be tough. We will do that if we have to though.

Hope we can get this turned around quickly.

Seems the one thing you can count on with OCD and anxiety disorders is that they

will flare up occasionally.

Hoping to get my own health stuff turned around too. I've actually had a few

good days here, with my heart. I'll take whatever I can get and be thankful for

it.

BJ

>

> It probably is the stress of college that is causing his anxiety. He must be

in the thick of his school work for the semester about now. Does he have

accommodations for the work? I remember that I once was really busy when in

graduate school (babies, work, ect) and I took an incomplete in 2 classes. Then

I sat through them again the next semester and then just took the final exam for

my grade. Wonder if it would help to slow the pace?

>

> We have had a paradoxical reaction with Klonopin - it made my son much worse.

Things like antihistamines worked better, but they cause some drowsiness. Since

you have had good results in the past, perhaps it is the dose that should be

increased, and maybe a new SSRI would be beneficial.

>

> I hope it gets better soon. SOrry to hear that you aren't feeling well.

>

> Bonnie