Re: Defiance, OCD or ????? Venting - Long

[Guest guest]

For my dd we knew it was beyond her control when the consequences were so big

and important to her, but she still had no ability to complete what was needed.

I am sorry things aren't going well. Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:28:18 PM

Subject: Defiance, OCD or ????? Venting - Long

 

I posted but think it may have cancelled so sorry if this is a duplicate...

How do you know when certain behaviors are really defiance or really an

inability to do certain things.

My dd, 13, extremely intelligent, severe OCD and just cant accomplish tasks,

finish projects, keep her room clean, handle basic responsibilities, stay

organized without nagging or punishments.

For a long time her therapists said she had ODD, was defiant - I never really

believed them because she is so sweet etc. But I went along figuring they know

better than me, we did the whole punishment/reward thing etc. And that did curb

the really bad behaviors (throwing things, screaming etc) but nothing ever

worked for the other issues.

I am so sick and tired of nagging and punishing.I decided to just clean her room

myself if I want it clean, help w her pets etc etc. but get resentful because

she is 13 and I feel she should be able to do so much more than she does, in

addition to the fact that I have a 3yo and feel like a 13yo could/should be a

little more self sufficient.

I am just so confused as to weather it is really defiant behavior or a real

inability to handle these things? How can you punish someone for things they

really can't help? Maybe she works so hard all the time just to deal w OCD she

cant handle much else - as has been said here before.

When do you throw your hands up in the air and say it is what it is, stop trying

to make her different or comply to standards that are unrealistic and just

appreciate your child and get over the resentment of taking care of a 13yo like

a toddler??

Thanks all, it's been a pretty crappy day.

Melidna

[Guest guest]

Melinda,

So sorry for what you are walking through! I am in the same boat. My dd has

such a hard time with alot of the same stuff. Case in point, lateness for

everything. She has been a couple of minutes late to school the last couple of

mornings (she is 16) and then freaks over it. She is very frustrated with this

in herself and honestly, after 11 years in the public school system I don't

think she can help it! Last year she spent a SEMESTER in saturday detention for

tardiness. It was ridiculous.

My dd can be the sweetest thing and then turn on you screaming and yelling. Its

so hard!! I will say this about ODD, though. This past January we had her

tested for ADHD (which she does NOT have, by the way) because of the poor

organization and inattention, and the dr. said she PRESENTED as oppositional

sometimes because of her anxiety. So its NOT actual true " ODD " but rooted in

something else, does that make sense? She's also sensory defensive so I am sure

that has something to do with it as well.

Hang in there with everything. I wish I had some answers for you! Heck, I wish

I had answers ..., PERIOD!!

Tina

>

> For my dd we knew it was beyond her control when the consequences were so big

and important to her, but she still had no ability to complete what was needed.

I am sorry things aren't going well. Stormy

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To:

> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:28:18 PM

> Subject: Defiance, OCD or ????? Venting - Long

>

>  

> I posted but think it may have cancelled so sorry if this is a duplicate...

>

> How do you know when certain behaviors are really defiance or really an

inability to do certain things.

>

> My dd, 13, extremely intelligent, severe OCD and just cant accomplish tasks,

finish projects, keep her room clean, handle basic responsibilities, stay

organized without nagging or punishments.

>

> For a long time her therapists said she had ODD, was defiant - I never really

believed them because she is so sweet etc. But I went along figuring they know

better than me, we did the whole punishment/reward thing etc. And that did curb

the really bad behaviors (throwing things, screaming etc) but nothing ever

worked for the other issues.

>

> I am so sick and tired of nagging and punishing.I decided to just clean her

room myself if I want it clean, help w her pets etc etc. but get resentful

because she is 13 and I feel she should be able to do so much more than she

does, in addition to the fact that I have a 3yo and feel like a 13yo

could/should be a little more self sufficient.

>

> I am just so confused as to weather it is really defiant behavior or a real

inability to handle these things? How can you punish someone for things they

really can't help? Maybe she works so hard all the time just to deal w OCD she

cant handle much else - as has been said here before.

>

> When do you throw your hands up in the air and say it is what it is, stop

trying to make her different or comply to standards that are unrealistic and

just appreciate your child and get over the resentment of taking care of a 13yo

like a toddler??

>

> Thanks all, it's been a pretty crappy day.

>

> Melidna

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well if it's OCD related - and you know what her OCD is/affects - then maybe you

can tie in some of the things she avoids/doesn't do to an OCD issue. And then

decide how to approach them, work on those issues as OCD. And/or give her some

responsibilities that don't trigger the OCD, some she can succeed at (even if

really simple and not really a " chore " ).

If not OCD related, maybe for things like cleaning her room you might try

telling her one thing to do (pick up clothes, put in hamper; or vacuum, dust...)

and then when she's done that one task, tell her the next thing to do. Just

suggesting this because some kids have a hard time knowing/deciding just how to

do some tasks. Even saying pick up your toys might have them not doing it

because they are not quite " sure " where to put each one or where in room to

begin.... Can be a chore for us to keep having to tell them each thing to do

but hopefully over time (lots of time!) it will get more routine.

Just some quick thoughts. Believe me, my sons were not good helpers around the

house/yard! Well - except for the phase was in and he liked cleaning!

He got past that phase unfortunately.

>

> I posted but think it may have cancelled so sorry if this is a duplicate...

>

> How do you know when certain behaviors are really defiance or really an

inability to do certain things.

>

> My dd, 13, extremely intelligent, severe OCD and just cant accomplish tasks,

finish projects, keep her room clean, handle basic responsibilities, stay

organized without nagging or punishments.

>

>

[Guest guest]

A couple of things about " cleaning the room " -- I agree with here ...

maybe just give ONE thing to do: pick up clothes, etc. at a time because some

kids have trouble with multi-step directions. The other thing is, my daughter

HATES to have me cleaning her room at her age. She LIKES her stuff all " out on

the floor " because she can see it, and know where everything is. Now with my

son, he had some issues with hoarding/collecting stuff. I had to wait til we

moved and/or he went away to college to get rid of some things. I don't know if

either one of these things is the issue with your daughter.

Also, teenagers in general DON'T like you messing with their stuff. They are

hugely into privacy, but maybe your girl hasn't reached that stage yet!!

Tina

p.s My daughter got a job bussing tables at a restaurant last year and worked

her butt off, so I knew she was capable after that, lol! Of course she was

getting paid, but ...

> >

> > I posted but think it may have cancelled so sorry if this is a duplicate...

> >

> > How do you know when certain behaviors are really defiance or really an

inability to do certain things.

> >

> > My dd, 13, extremely intelligent, severe OCD and just cant accomplish tasks,

finish projects, keep her room clean, handle basic responsibilities, stay

organized without nagging or punishments.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am in another group for parents of kids with oppositonal behaviour. Most of

us in that group think that ODD is a symptom of another problem and not the real

problem. So your daughter's ODD symptoms might be fueled by her OCD, or

something else. If you can treat the underlying problem, the ODD often

decreases.

My 13 year old had an ODD dx but is now on the GF/CF diet and isn't usually

defiant any more. I did have almost 10 years of dealing with it, though.

My other daughter has OCD but is also physically ill so we don't expect much out

of her. I have to treat her like a 3 year old and pick up after her, but it is

easier to justify when there is a clear physical reason, probably.

If there is an OCD reason underlying her inability to pick up after herself, I

would work on the OCD as much as possible and let the rest go. Either pick up

after her yourself or let her room be a mess, whatever is more comfortable for

you.

Even when my daughter had the ODD dx, it was better for the household if we let

a lot of things go. It didn't matter what the consequence was, she was just not

going to do it. She missed out on a lot of privileges by us trying to get her

to do the right thing and our house was in a constant state of turmoil from the

explosions. Luckily we figured out what was causing it, but I would like to

think that we would have decided it wasn't worth her not having any privileges

ever just so she would keep her room clean.

Of course, now that she doesn't have that problem any more, we do expect her to

do more. If she doesn't clean her room, she doesn't get to go out. Most of the

time, that gets her motivated and she will do it.

I guess I believe if you have tried giving significant consequences without

success, that it is probably not just defiance but a lack of ability for

whatever reason. Just my experience.