Re: was; Three Questions. now; argument

[Guest guest]

" My husband was trying not to laugh at this debate, and said he did not know if

he should have told 'mr outspoken' " you are not going to get a French Canadian

to shut up by trying to threaten or embarass her, she is having fun. "

Maybe there is a little French Canadian in all of us.

Elyse speaks French.

I can tell you it was weird coming to Canada and seeing signs in both English

and French. In the US, IF we see a bi-lingual sign, it is in English and

Spanish. Took some getting used to, and always weird to have Elyse break out in

French when she meets someone she knows in themarket.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

"I appreciated Graham's comments about some arguments being frustrating, they don't bother me but I have been told by people in 'face-time' that I tend to "argue somethng to death"

One of the things I would like to add to my prior post on this is that economic and political discussions are of direct relevance to Aspies, and the fact that not to many people seem to care about them is really scary.

Aspies are more likely than non-autistics to live at home with their parents, or live in an institution, or live in subsidized housing, or have some part of their existence subsidized. Many live in hard timnes as it is, and when harder times approach, they really feel the pinch, because social services are one of the first things to get cut in bad times, and inflation is the second thing to hit them. They are also the most likely to get fired from jobs because they are the "token handicapped hires" which businesses simply cannot afford when the economy is poor.

and I have had discussions about politics and the economy both to exchange views, but also to tell people how to beat the odds. To us, the hundreds of seemingly random and unrelated economic and political vectors head in certain directions and point to definite outcomes.

If and I were as correct about lottery numbers as we are about political and economic situations, people would be begging us to give them the winning numbers. But because politics and the economy bore people, and because they don't take the time to learn anything about either of them, no one cares. They stew and muddle in their own cesspools of despair and then expect to get sympathy when the crap hits the fan.

There have been more than a few times when both of us have been accused of "not understanding" the predicaments of many of the people here. they say that we've never been poor. We've never been on the dole. We have no idea what it is like. They obviously forget that we've been talking since before even this forum's creation (on other forums) about how the middle class was dissipating and why, and how people destroyed their credit and made themselves poor. How this increasingly ignorant lot is stealing away funds from those who truly need it by finding themselves destitute through their own stupidity.

Perhaps the frustration I feel is because before the economic collapse, I have said repeatedly: "This is what is going to happen" and people have responded with "I don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk." And now that the collapse has taken place, I have said repeatedly "This is what has happened. Here is what is going to happen next. And here is how to weather the storm," and people have responded with I don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk."

There is a lot of truth to the statement that ignorant people bring down everyone around them, and now, as we have seen with recent newspaper articles which both and I have posted, the economy is the worst it has been since the Great Depression, people across the country are losing their jobs, losing their homes, the government is threatening to take away our retirement funds to pay off the debt the people clamoured for, etc. And NONE of it would have happened if the people who most often say "I don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk" were made to shut their big flapping mouths and forced against their will to get with the program like the rest of us were doing before all this turmoil started in the first place.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

renaissanzelady wrote: " ...<snip> ... My husband was trying not to laugh at

this debate, and said he did not know if he should have told 'mr outspoken'

" You are not going to get a French Canadian to shut up by trying to threaten or

embarass her, she is having fun. " ... <snip> ... "

That's hilarious! can certainly understand where your husband was coming

from, renaissanzelady. He's been in that same position himself more than once

with me, knowing that an Aboriginal will not let go of an opportunity to educate

someone on the facts of a situation where ignorance abounds.

Last June, there was a nationwide protest by Aboriginals to draw attention to

the fact that our treaties have not been adhered to or respected by

non-Aboriginals and the government of Canada. There was more than a little

opposition by non-Aboriginals who didn't have a clue what the issues were facing

Aboriginals in Canada but who felt that Aboriginals were completely in the wrong

and total jerks for causing so much trouble -- or wanting to cause so much

trouble -- to 'law abiding real Canadians' (as if Aboriginals don't belong in

our own country).

and I were at the local Burger King when two white males decided to sit

right behind us. One of the two spent the entire time bad mouthing Aboriginals,

calling Aboriginals troublemakers, saying that all Aboriginals who try to talk

about treaties out to be put in jail and loudly advocating that all Aboriginals

who don't like what's going on in Canada should go back to where they came from

(uh, we came from here before the white man came from here so we are where we

came from) and stating far, far, far worse so that the entire restaurant could

hear him.

kept reaching across the table to hold my hand, reassuring me that he was

just being ignorant and to please stay out of it.

Stay out of it ... as if I could!

And so as we prepared to leave the restaurant, knew without asking that I

was going to educate this ignorant white man and give him some pertinent

historical data that was clearly overlooked when he was in elementary school.

stood behind me about 10 or so paces while I politely but curtly provided

both of these males with correct and factual information. The outspoken male

got very rude with me and told me to [impossible sexual act here] and that I had

better watch my back if that's what I thought.

tried to get me to back away from the discussion and finally said, " I'll

wait for you at the car " hoping that this would spur me to follow thereby

preventing a debacle wherein he would be forced to defend me when the other one

threw the first punch.

" Fine, " I said, not really caring if anyone was beside me or behind me. I knew

the facts and I knew this guy needed an education.

The other guy's lunch partner was cringing, probably afraid that HE was going to

have to defend to the police why his lunch partner threw a punch at a woman in

the first place.

As things turned out, the mouthy one stormed away, blustering as he went, as he

realized he wasn't going to intimidate me with his loud, brutish ways and his

size. I then turned to the quiet one and in a very polite tone, I suggested a

couple of places where he could further educate himself on the facts concerning

Aboriginal affairs in Canada and what the signed treaties that have not been

honoured stated.

This one smiled and apologized for his lunch partner's very bad behaviour and

said he would go to the library and read up on treaties.

I then left.

Did this quiet one ever do that? I have no way of knowing. Maybe he did and

maybe he didn't.

Did the ignorant one ever decide to educate himself on the facts? I have no way

of knowing but I venture to guess the answer to that is a resounding no.

Did at any point think I was going to back down from this opportunity to

properly educate someone who had no idea what he was talking about but who was

spreading hate material via his uneducated opinion? No, he didn't. He was just

hoping he wasn't going to have to break up a fist fight and take the other guy

in to Emergency. :-)

And yes, knew before this particular situation and since then that you

can't stop me when I'm in possession of the facts and I've run into some

arrogant idiot who is running his mouth with misinformation, disinformation and

lies that will, in the short and long run, be the cause of abuse towards someone

else.

Yes, RL, I think that your husband and could probably pass the hours

discussing the many 'situations' you and I have gotten them into respectively.

LOL!

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... always weird to have Elyse break out in

French when she meets someone she knows in the market ... <snip> ... "

Wanna know what really weirds him out, RL? When I meet up with someone who's

from the Maritimes who speaks Franglais and so the mix of English and French is

impossible for non-Franglais speakers to keep up with in the first place.

" almost " knows what's being discussed during those times but just as he

thinks he's got the jist of the conversation, a few more words pop up and he

isn't sure what to make of the conversation at that point.

You know, 'demand' in French and 'demand' in English are two very different

things in terms of intensity. ;-)

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

" tried to get me to back away from the discussion and finally said, " I'll

wait for you at the car " hoping that this would spur me to follow thereby

preventing a debacle wherein he would be forced to defend me when the other one

threw the first punch. "

Partly that and partly that and partly that I didn't want to get thrown out of

the country and told never to return, Canada not being my birth country.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" And NONE of it would have happened if the people who most often say " I don't

care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk " were made to shut their big

flapping mouths and forced against their will to get with the program like the

rest of us were doing before all this

turmoil started in the first place. "

Well the sad truth is some will just not listen, they will not hear, nor

understand no matter how you present the information to them. I have met plenty

of people like that; some accuse me of 'doom and gloom' at times and I am not

all doom and gloom. My mother in particular I find frustrating as many times I

point things out to her and she will tell me point blank 'I do not want to

know'. Thing is later when the event happens which I have predicted I often get;

'Why didn't you say something?' and I will point out that I did, but this is

where people have convenient memory lapses.

I know personally I prefer knowing, if someone tells me something, I will listen

and take it on board; I will not always follow their advice; but that is another

thing, you cannot generally force another to follow your advice. I do listen

though and I do hear. There are plenty out there that would rather not know,

that prefer to live in their own little world and ironically that is what is

often said of autistics.

Sometimes things sadden me a lot, but I would rather feel than have my heart

cold and unfeeling. I do not see only doom and gloom either, although there have

been times in my life when I have, or it has felt that way.

>

>

> " I appreciated Graham's comments about some arguments being frustrating,

> they don't bother me but I have been told by people in 'face-time' that

> I tend to " argue somethng to death "

>

> One of the things I would like to add to my prior post on this is that

> economic and political discussions are of direct relevance to Aspies,

> and the fact that not to many people seem to care about them is really

> scary.

>

> Aspies are more likely than non-autistics to live at home with their

> parents, or live in an institution, or live in subsidized housing, or

> have some part of their existence subsidized. Many live in hard timnes

> as it is, and when harder times approach, they really feel the pinch,

> because social services are one of the first things to get cut in bad

> times, and inflation is the second thing to hit them. They are also the

> most likely to get fired from jobs because they are the " token

> handicapped hires " which businesses simply cannot afford when the

> economy is poor.

>

> and I have had discussions about politics and the economy both

> to exchange views, but also to tell people how to beat the odds. To us,

> the hundreds of seemingly random and unrelated economic and political

> vectors head in certain directions and point to definite outcomes.

>

> If and I were as correct about lottery numbers as we are about

> political and economic situations, people would be begging us to give

> them the winning numbers. But because politics and the economy bore

> people, and because they don't take the time to learn anything about

> either of them, no one cares. They stew and muddle in their own

> cesspools of despair and then expect to get sympathy when the crap hits

> the fan.

>

> There have been more than a few times when both of us have been accused

> of " not understanding " the predicaments of many of the people here. they

> say that we've never been poor. We've never been on the dole. We have no

> idea what it is like. They obviously forget that we've been talking

> since before even this forum's creation (on other forums) about how the

> middle class was dissipating and why, and how people destroyed their

> credit and made themselves poor. How this increasingly ignorant lot is

> stealing away funds from those who truly need it by finding themselves

> destitute through their own stupidity.

>

> Perhaps the frustration I feel is because before the economic collapse,

> I have said repeatedly: " This is what is going to happen " and people

> have responded with " I don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant

> jerk. " And now that the collapse has taken place, I have said repeatedly

> " This is what has happened. Here is what is going to happen next. And

> here is how to weather the storm, " and people have responded with I

> don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk. "

>

> There is a lot of truth to the statement that ignorant people bring down

> everyone around them, and now, as we have seen with recent newspaper

> articles which both and I have posted, the economy is the worst

> it has been since the Great Depression, people across the country are

> losing their jobs, losing their homes, the government is threatening to

> take away our retirement funds to pay off the debt the people clamoured

> for, etc. And NONE of it would have happened if the people who most

> often say " I don't care, and you are a right-winged, arrogant jerk " were

> made to shut their big flapping mouths and forced against their will to

> get with the program like the rest of us were doing before all this

> turmoil started in the first place.

>

>

>

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

" My mother in particular I find frustrating as many times I

point things out to her and she will tell me point blank 'I do not want to

know'. Thing is later when the event happens which I have predicted I often get;

'Why didn't you say something?' and I will point out that I did, but this is

where people have convenient memory lapses. "

The only explanation for this that I can think of is that maybe some people

cannot absorb too much bad news too fast, and so they raise a shield that

deflects bad news away from them. The problem is, it makes the hit much harder

when they have no choice but to face up to it.

Administrator