Re: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

[Guest guest]

What I have always done with my daughter when she gets like this, and I still do

it, is I disengage. It sounds like you are on the right track by leaving the

house.

Have you tried locking yourself in your bathroom or bedroom?I have noticed, if

there is no audience for my daughter she calms down much quicker.

It sounds like she has chosen you . I'm the " lucky one " with my daughter too.

She can hold it together at school and in other situations as you have described

but lets it all loose with me, because I'm the one she is the most comfortable

with.

My daughter has gotten better with this because she knows I will not engage her

anymore, but it has taken many years. She will be 13 next month, and was

" horrendous " when she was younger.She still has major problems with transitions

though. That has always been very diffficult.

I think they have varying degrees of coping skills depending on the situation.

Let us know how you make out with the therapist!

Is she currently on any meds?

I wish you the best of luck!

Hugs

Judy

 

________________________________

To:

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:58:08 PM

Subject: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

 

Our 9yo has been having rages. She was starting to push and hit so I started

walking outside down the hill 2-4 houses and back up and she always follows me.

By the time we get back she is a bit winded. Since she HATES following me, she

stopped being violent. But she will still yell for an hour or more while not

letting me do anything (I can't sit, watch tv, read a book, do dishes...). Some

of the things she is refusing to let me do tie into her OCD (can't handle

change) but even if I just stand in one place she still yells at me. If I leave

the house (when her dad is home too), she calms down within 15 minutes and is

calm when I come back an hour later. I don't want to punish her for emotions

caused by the OCD, but how much yelling is normal, and is it normal for her to

be able to turn it off when I leave?

The 2nd part has to do with the OCD not being consistent. She says she can't get

dressed (can't move the clothes because they won't be in the same place, can't

decide which is best....) but after not being able to do it for 45 minutes can

be dressed in 3 minutes after her friends arrive at the door. Is that OCD, or

being a brat?

Hubby and I are meeting with the therapist on Thursday to discuss some of this,

but I wanted to see what those of you in the trenches thought.

[Guest guest]

Don't know if she's on meds, but you might want to run this by her pdoc if so.

Bonnie

>

> Our 9yo has been having rages. She was starting to push and hit so I started

walking outside down the hill 2-4 houses and back up and she always follows me.

By the time we get back she is a bit winded. Since she HATES following me, she

stopped being violent. But she will still yell for an hour or more while not

letting me do anything (I can't sit, watch tv, read a book, do dishes...). Some

of the things she is refusing to let me do tie into her OCD (can't handle

change) but even if I just stand in one place she still yells at me. If I leave

the house (when her dad is home too), she calms down within 15 minutes and is

calm when I come back an hour later. I don't want to punish her for emotions

caused by the OCD, but how much yelling is normal, and is it normal for her to

be able to turn it off when I leave?

>

> The 2nd part has to do with the OCD not being consistent. She says she can't

get dressed (can't move the clothes because they won't be in the same place,

can't decide which is best....) but after not being able to do it for 45 minutes

can be dressed in 3 minutes after her friends arrive at the door. Is that OCD,

or being a brat?

>

> Hubby and I are meeting with the therapist on Thursday to discuss some of

this, but I wanted to see what those of you in the trenches thought.

>

[Guest guest]

I have tried locking myself in a room and she kicks and pounds on the door for

up to an hour, but does eventually calm down. However she recently started

crying that the floor is going to open and swallow her up if I don't come out.

I ignored her last night when it was an hour past her bedtime and was my bedtime

and locked my bedroom door. She cried and screamed for about 45 minutes and

then finally was whimpering that she would do anything if I would only open the

door up. I told her I would open the door if she would let me go to sleep and

not keep me awake. She agreed so I opened the door and she grabbed hold of me

and held on tight. She let me go to sleep and was asleep herself in about 20

minutes.

She isn't on any meds, but we are in the process of searching for a Dr to work

with us on that. So far they are either out of town, don't return calls, or

only available one day a week so appointments are hard to come by.

>

> What I have always done with my daughter when she gets like this, and I still

do it, is I disengage. It sounds like you are on the right track by leaving the

house.

>

> Have you tried locking yourself in your bathroom or bedroom?I have noticed, if

there is no audience for my daughter she calms down much quicker.

[Guest guest]

I can feel your desperation!!! It sounds like she is having alot of anxiety

which can be triggering her intrusive thoughts.

I still think you are doing what you can, and are doing the right thing. It's

hard to tell what is " normal pre teen " behavior and what is from the OCD.

My suggestion is if you know she is raging about an OCD issue, than I would make

myself available to her to help her through the issue.( Is she doing ERP?), but

if she is raging and it's not due to an OCD issue than I would continue to do as

you are doing by not engaging with her. My daughter , and son for that

matter did all the begging and banging on the door too.

What I do with my son(8) is I have a sleeping bag on my floor, for when he is

very anxious, and he can use that to sleep. He used to get in my bed, and I

wanted to end that. I moved the sleeping bag away from my bed a few inches a

night. Sometimes it's a cycle where I get him sleeping back in his own bed for

weeks and than he needs the sleeping bag again, so I have to move it back to my

bed and start over. You need your sleep.You have to take care of you before

anyone else!

Hang in there. It will get better. Believe me!! I have two with OCD . They have

come a long way!!!!

I can relate to what you are saying about the doctors also!

I'm sure the others on this board will come in with some suggestions also.

Hugs

judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:15:56 AM

Subject: Re: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

 

I have tried locking myself in a room and she kicks and pounds on the door for

up to an hour, but does eventually calm down. However she recently started

crying that the floor is going to open and swallow her up if I don't come out. I

ignored her last night when it was an hour past her bedtime and was my bedtime

and locked my bedroom door. She cried and screamed for about 45 minutes and then

finally was whimpering that she would do anything if I would only open the door

up. I told her I would open the door if she would let me go to sleep and not

keep me awake. She agreed so I opened the door and she grabbed hold of me and

held on tight. She let me go to sleep and was asleep herself in about 20

minutes.

She isn't on any meds, but we are in the process of searching for a Dr to work

with us on that. So far they are either out of town, don't return calls, or only

available one day a week so appointments are hard to come by.

>

> What I have always done with my daughter when she gets like this, and I still

do it, is I disengage. It sounds like you are on the right track by leaving the

house.

>

> Have you tried locking yourself in your bathroom or bedroom?I have noticed, if

there is no audience for my daughter she calms down much quicker.

[Guest guest]

This was us from grade 3 thru grade 5. I very fell sorry for all the suffering

both she has and you must endure.

We started on zoloft at age 11 and very low doses (she said it was posion) and

then increased every few weeks. It stopped the

raging and meltdowns for us. I wish everyone would have it

this easy. But it did not stop all the obessing she has.

Once on the zoloft we introduced a behavior plan. her day is

highly structured now and we give all money, outtings,

and TV and computer time as rewards for positive behavior.

We work with a behaviorist to teach us how to have her rehearse

being more flexible, broading interests (less obsessing) etc.

Our daughter is still highly resistent to talk therapy.

We suffered greatly just as you are describing. I spent many

nights locked behind a door with a child melting down.

We made three changes 1) medication 2) small special needs

school to lower stress (school district pays for) 3) highly

structured day with reduced socializing and activities but with

a reward program. 4) No aversive punishments that escalate

emotions. Just a loss of a sticker for not minding (worth about 25 cents in her

incentive program).

Pam

dandparenting , " evj43 " wrote:

>

> I have tried locking myself in a room and she kicks and pounds on the door for

up to an hour, but does eventually calm down. However she recently started

crying that the floor is going to open and swallow her up if I don't come out.

I ignored her last night when it was an hour past her bedtime and was my bedtime

and locked my bedroom door. She cried and screamed for about 45 minutes and

then finally was whimpering that she would do anything if I would only open the

door up. I told her I would open the door if she would let me go to sleep and

not keep me awake. She agreed so I opened the door and she grabbed hold of me

and held on tight. She let me go to sleep and was asleep herself in about 20

minutes.

>

> She isn't on any meds, but we are in the process of searching for a Dr to work

with us on that. So far they are either out of town, don't return calls, or

only available one day a week so appointments are hard to come by.

>

>

> >

> > What I have always done with my daughter when she gets like this, and I

still do it, is I disengage. It sounds like you are on the right track by

leaving the house.

> >

> > Have you tried locking yourself in your bathroom or bedroom?I have noticed,

if there is no audience for my daughter she calms down much quicker.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, what is it with her OCD that you're not " allowed " to sit, read, etc.?

what's she saying when she yells?

I assume dad isn't being OCD-bullied around in any way. Probably why it clicks

" off " when you leave (or winds down).

I don't think it's uncommon where she is taking 45 min trying to dress and then

manages to do it quickly after friends show up. could get " stuck " also,

sometimes his getting unstuck always seemed to be that " last minute " for

something, like it's a sort of " push. " Of course, didn't help at times like

bedtime or anything that didn't have some limit.... Maybe it's the " push " from

outside sources? like friends/company, teachers, not being late for school....

I wonder if, as part of bossing back OCD, you can give her a limit on her

" yelling time " - okay, you usually do an hour, you've got 45 minutes now and you

have to be through! and/or pick one thing that you will not let her OCD/fits

boss you around with, like TV or a book; where SHE knows that is the 1 thing you

will do and she has to try NOT to get upset (she talks back to OCD, and part of

that is feeling the anxiety and not giving in....).

Just quick thoughts!

>

> Our 9yo has been having rages. She was starting to push and hit so I started

walking outside down the hill 2-4 houses and back up and she always follows me.

By the time we get back she is a bit winded. Since she HATES following me, she

stopped being violent. But she will still yell for an hour or more while not

letting me do anything (I can't sit, watch tv, read a book, do dishes...). Some

of the things she is refusing to let me do tie into her OCD (can't

[Guest guest]

Thanks Judy. I think the rages are OCD. She will be stuck in one spot, rocking

back and forth on her feet. She doesn't want us to do anything because it will

cause a change. The couch will smush, the carpet will flex... But I can stay

there for 2 hours and there is no change. If I leave, the emotions will peak

and she either unsticks herself, or I can come back down and she can leap over

to me to grab on for a hug. But it is horrible to leave her when she is so

upset.

She has stopped using 3 different sleeping spots. They are OK for a while and

then one day she will wake up and not be able to get up because it will change

the blanket. She finally gets up, but then won't go back to that spot.

She is resisting doing ERP, and it's hard to rank her fears because they are

emotionally driven. If she is calm, some things are easy (shower), but if she's

not calm she can't do them.

>

> I can feel your desperation!!! It sounds like she is having alot of anxiety

which can be triggering her intrusive thoughts.

>

> I still think you are doing what you can, and are doing the right thing. It's

hard to tell what is " normal pre teen " behavior and what is from the OCD.

> My suggestion is if you know she is raging about an OCD issue, than I would

make myself available to her to help her through the issue.( Is she doing ERP?),

but if she is raging and it's not due to an OCD issue than I would continue to

do as you are doing by not engaging with her. My daughter , and son for that

matter did all the begging and banging on the door too.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam. I'm hoping meds can help her. I don't know if we will be able to

get her to take them, because she can't eat or drink most of the time (it will

make the food go away forever).

We are having problems finding rewards that work for her. She comes up with

ideas and then earns the rewards, but when it is time to get the reward, she

freezes because it will be something new, or a change. Using the computer used

to be her calming technique, but lately she isn't using it because she has to

keep track of everything she does. So if she is playing on Club Penguin and

does a happy face icon, she writes it down. If she plays a game, she writes

down what game, how many coins earned, and other info about it.

>

> This was us from grade 3 thru grade 5. I very fell sorry for all the suffering

both she has and you must endure.

>

> We started on zoloft at age 11 and very low doses (she said it was posion) and

then increased every few weeks. It stopped the

> raging and meltdowns for us. I wish everyone would have it

> this easy. But it did not stop all the obessing she has.

>

> Once on the zoloft we introduced a behavior plan. her day is

> highly structured now and we give all money, outtings,

> and TV and computer time as rewards for positive behavior.

>

> We work with a behaviorist to teach us how to have her rehearse

> being more flexible, broading interests (less obsessing) etc.

>

> Our daughter is still highly resistent to talk therapy.

>

> We suffered greatly just as you are describing. I spent many

> nights locked behind a door with a child melting down.

>

> We made three changes 1) medication 2) small special needs

> school to lower stress (school district pays for) 3) highly

> structured day with reduced socializing and activities but with

> a reward program. 4) No aversive punishments that escalate

> emotions. Just a loss of a sticker for not minding (worth about 25 cents in

her incentive program).

>

[Guest guest]

The OCD is telling her to not let anything change. If we sit the couch

will smush, if I read pages will turn... If I stand there quietly, eventually

she will start yelling at me to " stop yelling. " If I walk away and she isn't

physically stuck, she will follow me continuing to yell.

She seldom does it to her dad. He loses control faster and will really yell

back at her, which she has never liked, or will leave the house. If they are

home alone, she tends to do fine. But when I get back it's like it was all

stored up and explodes on me.

I like the idea of picking one thing I can do and work on that. But she

currently isn't letting us talk to her about him. I'll see if the therapist can

help us on it.

>

> Hi, what is it with her OCD that you're not " allowed " to sit, read, etc.?

what's she saying when she yells?

>

> I assume dad isn't being OCD-bullied around in any way. Probably why it

clicks " off " when you leave (or winds down).

>

> I don't think it's uncommon where she is taking 45 min trying to dress and

then manages to do it quickly after friends show up. could get " stuck "

also, sometimes his getting unstuck always seemed to be that " last minute " for

something, like it's a sort of " push. " Of course, didn't help at times like

bedtime or anything that didn't have some limit.... Maybe it's the " push " from

outside sources? like friends/company, teachers, not being late for school....

>

> I wonder if, as part of bossing back OCD, you can give her a limit on her

" yelling time " - okay, you usually do an hour, you've got 45 minutes now and you

have to be through! and/or pick one thing that you will not let her OCD/fits

boss you around with, like TV or a book; where SHE knows that is the 1 thing you

will do and she has to try NOT to get upset (she talks back to OCD, and part of

that is feeling the anxiety and not giving in....).

>

> Just quick thoughts!

>

>

[Guest guest]

After reading your post , it sounds like maybe some medication may help. I am

not an advocate for meds unless absolutely necessary, but in my opinion, your

daughter may benefit from some.

Hopefully they can reduce some of her anxieties and thoughts so she can do

something without " getting stuck " . It seems like she is " stuck " on everything

she tries to do, which can be very frustrating.

Hopefully your therapist has some good ideas.

Let us know what he or she suggests!

Hugs

Judy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:23:15 AM

Subject: Re: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

 

Thanks Judy. I think the rages are OCD. She will be stuck in one spot, rocking

back and forth on her feet. She doesn't want us to do anything because it will

cause a change. The couch will smush, the carpet will flex... But I can stay

there for 2 hours and there is no change. If I leave, the emotions will peak and

she either unsticks herself, or I can come back down and she can leap over to me

to grab on for a hug. But it is horrible to leave her when she is so upset.

She has stopped using 3 different sleeping spots. They are OK for a while and

then one day she will wake up and not be able to get up because it will change

the blanket. She finally gets up, but then won't go back to that spot.

She is resisting doing ERP, and it's hard to rank her fears because they are

emotionally driven. If she is calm, some things are easy (shower), but if she's

not calm she can't do them.

>

> I can feel your desperation! !! It sounds like she is having alot of anxiety

which can be triggering her intrusive thoughts.

>

> I still think you are doing what you can, and are doing the right thing. It's

hard to tell what is " normal pre teen " behavior and what is from the OCD.

> My suggestion is if you know she is raging about an OCD issue, than I would

make myself available to her to help her through the issue.( Is she doing ERP?),

but if she is raging and it's not due to an OCD issue than I would continue to

do as you are doing by not engaging with her. My daughter , and son for that

matter did all the begging and banging on the door too.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It sounds like your daughter and thus you and your family are really having a

hard time. Sometimes medications can bring the anxiety down far enough that the

child/adult can work in ERP. Some medications (ie, Zoloft) are available as

liquid concentrates that you mix with a drink if you think this would be easier

for her than swallowing a pill. The Zoloft does have some taste but our 9 yo

daughter drinks hers daily in OJ and rarely complains (and she has never been a

good medicine taker, but I think she really knows now that this is helping her).

I don't know if your daughter's therapist has explained to you about

accommodation. When you let her OCD boss you around (ie, you stand still and do

nothing because she gets upset by change), you are accommodating the OCD.

Although it is impossible to never accommodate (especially when a child is

severely anxious or you are trying to run a family and maintain your own

sanity!), OCD is a greedy boss, " if you give it an inch, it will take a mile. "

When our daughter is not willing to work, we have had to tell her that we will

decrease accommodations (although we haven't removed them completely). She

wants a piece of bar soap and extra towels to take to school. The first week or

two I got them for her; now it is her job and if she forgets, I still expect her

to use the bathroom. This summer, when she was functioning much worse, we had

huge tantrums over the size and newness of the piece of soap she was expected to

use to wash after toileting. My

husband initially said the tantrums would stop if I just gave her what she

wanted; I had to explain to him that the OCD would just keep getting more rigid

about the soap and other components of her ritual each time we gave in. It was

not a fun summer! for any of us, but with therapy throughout the summer and

increased medication dosages, she is now doing much better.

Please don't think I am saying that you are wrong for accommodating. It is a

very natural tendency. Parents want to make their children feel better when

they are so clearly suffering; the problem is that in the long run it ends up

making things worse not better. Perhaps it is a bit like when you insist that

your young medicine-hating child takes her medications because you know that if

you don't fight that battle, the illness will get worse.

Hang in there and come here to vent or find some quiet time for you. I fell

apart in the middle of the summer, and my husband gave me a day off just to do

whatever I wanted without the kids. It was a wonderful gift and made me realize

how much I needed it, and how much I needed to take care of myself so that I

could take care of my kids.

(mom with OCD, 9 yo daughter w/ OCD)

>

> Subject: Re: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

> To:

> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 11:38 AM

> The OCD is telling her to not

> let anything change.  If we sit the couch will smush,

> if I read pages will turn...  If I stand there quietly,

> eventually she will start yelling at me to " stop

> yelling. "   If I walk away and she isn't physically

> stuck, she will follow me continuing to yell.

>

> She seldom does it to her dad.  He loses control

> faster and will really yell back at her, which she has never

> liked, or will leave the house.  If they are home

> alone, she tends to do fine.  But when I get back it's

> like it was all stored up and explodes on me. 

>

> I like the idea of picking one thing I can do and work on

> that.  But she currently isn't letting us talk to her

> about him.  I'll see if the therapist can help us on

> it.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

How are you responding to her behavior? I think the best response is no

response. Every behavior has a purpose and while I'm not sure what purpose her

behavior serves (outside of attention), you don't have to participate What

would happen if you went to your own room and closed the door to read? What if

you just keep doing the dishes - speaking as little as possible and avoiding eye

contact while she acts out.

I went through rages with my son and it was really hard sometimes to maintain my

composure, but that was the only thing that stopped the escalation. At first he

tried to up the ante and there were times I actually had to restrain him to keep

him from harming me or himself. I followed Ross Greene's Explosive Child

methodology. When my son broke something or trashed his room, I refused to

clean it. Sometimes I made him pay for what he broke or earn the money with

chores. I implemented system of earning privileges instead of just having the

right to play electronic games, computer, or watch tv. Anything new that I

introduced, I did gradually and at times when he wasn't explosive. I let him

help me figure out the details. We still abide by our rules from 3 yrs ago

(he's now going on 11).

This was not punishment, just a way to help him understand the impact of his

actions and to learn responsibility for them. Once we agree upon rules, I am

out of the equation. When I don't participate in his anger, he gets nothing out

of it. It doesn't stop him from becoming angry, but it lessens the severity.

Hope things go well for you soon!

Bonnie

>

> Our 9yo has been having rages. She was starting to push and hit so I started

walking outside down the hill 2-4 houses and back up and she always follows me.

By the time we get back she is a bit winded. Since she HATES following me, she

stopped being violent. But she will still yell for an hour or more while not

letting me do anything (I can't sit, watch tv, read a book, do dishes...). Some

of the things she is refusing to let me do tie into her OCD (can't handle

change) but even if I just stand in one place she still yells at me. If I leave

the house (when her dad is home too), she calms down within 15 minutes and is

calm when I come back an hour later. I don't want to punish her for emotions

caused by the OCD, but how much yelling is normal, and is it normal for her to

be able to turn it off when I leave?

>

> The 2nd part has to do with the OCD not being consistent. She says she can't

get dressed (can't move the clothes because they won't be in the same place,

can't decide which is best....) but after not being able to do it for 45 minutes

can be dressed in 3 minutes after her friends arrive at the door. Is that OCD,

or being a brat?

>

> Hubby and I are meeting with the therapist on Thursday to discuss some of

this, but I wanted to see what those of you in the trenches thought.

>

[Guest guest]

I had similar issues with getting my daughter to take medication.

I started her on just a crumb of a zoloft and progressively

increased it as time went on.

What has worked for us is very small exposures to any changes.

Keeping rewards varied. Ignoring if she says the award is stupid.

We have to start somewhere. It is better if they pick the reward.

I had to work with my daughter for years to cultivate an interest

in broading her interests.

Rehearsing any changes and even rewards is another stategy.

It is so much easier if you have a behavior plan and work

toward shapping behaviors rathers than debating, lecturing or

nagging.

I find I am doing a lot of cheerleading on the rewards. I keept the focus on the

reward and off the anxious thought.

Whew!! It is a lot of work but I am not so emotional anymore.

We have a plan.

Pam

> >

> > This was us from grade 3 thru grade 5. I very fell sorry for all the

suffering both she has and you must endure.

> >

> > We started on zoloft at age 11 and very low doses (she said it was posion)

and then increased every few weeks. It stopped the

> > raging and meltdowns for us. I wish everyone would have it

> > this easy. But it did not stop all the obessing she has.

> >

> > Once on the zoloft we introduced a behavior plan. her day is

> > highly structured now and we give all money, outtings,

> > and TV and computer time as rewards for positive behavior.

> >

> > We work with a behaviorist to teach us how to have her rehearse

> > being more flexible, broading interests (less obsessing) etc.

> >

> > Our daughter is still highly resistent to talk therapy.

> >

> > We suffered greatly just as you are describing. I spent many

> > nights locked behind a door with a child melting down.

> >

> > We made three changes 1) medication 2) small special needs

> > school to lower stress (school district pays for) 3) highly

> > structured day with reduced socializing and activities but with

> > a reward program. 4) No aversive punishments that escalate

> > emotions. Just a loss of a sticker for not minding (worth about 25 cents in

her incentive program).

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There is a technique for a child that has so many issues. It is usually called

something like " detective work " . If you have not read about slowly building a

heirarchy (it takes a week or two to build), let me know & I'll write more.

Then you don't have to call it ERP - you just call it bravery work to retrain

your brain. You look for the tiniest thing that she could succeed at. Perhaps

it is simply moving one pinkie finger on a sofa for a fraction of an inch. It

is very painful work at first, for a parent to watch, because it seems to go so

slowly. But then it can gain speed. Have you seen the ABC special on OCD in

kids? If not, watch the girl that was afraid to touch her parents. They

literally measure progress in inches.

Ranking something that changes can be done - you just have a range of rankings.

Those things are very unlikely to be the first exposures anyway, because you are

looking for a small piece of the least feared thing to succeed about. I know

this sounds impossible - but it can be done. Our daughter was quite severe, and

most of her day was taken up by rituals, but she fought this with ERP tools for

about 5 months (and antibiotics for the last little bit due to PANDAS) but is

doing extremely well now.

I think you are very clearly right - those rages are about OCD.

This is so hard - and I feel for you. A great therapist will need to get you

really involved as well, since so many rituals involve you. This was the way it

was for us as well.

All my best - in NC.

>

> Thanks Judy. I think the rages are OCD. She will be stuck in one spot,

rocking back and forth on her feet. She doesn't want us to do anything because

it will cause a change. The couch will smush, the carpet will flex... But I

can stay there for 2 hours and there is no change. If I leave, the emotions

will peak and she either unsticks herself, or I can come back down and she can

leap over to me to grab on for a hug. But it is horrible to leave her when she

is so upset.

>

> She has stopped using 3 different sleeping spots. They are OK for a while and

then one day she will wake up and not be able to get up because it will change

the blanket. She finally gets up, but then won't go back to that spot.

>

> She is resisting doing ERP, and it's hard to rank her fears because they are

emotionally driven. If she is calm, some things are easy (shower), but if she's

not calm she can't do them.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with all of the advice from . In our case, I was able to slowly

take away accomodations with the help of her therapist. I very rarely do an

accomodation now - that is part of the motivation to do ERP work.

My saddest memory of this time was the realization that I needed to be a

completely different kind of mom. That I was not helping her by reassuring her

- that basically, her brain was demanding that I learn new and very

counter-intuitive tools. With practice, this has gotten much easier, and she

has actually thanked me for understanding what her brain needs. She now gets

rather angry when we don't understand something & give in to an accomodation!

It is much harder for her to fight, if we are not fighting as well!

>

> Hi,

>

> It sounds like your daughter and thus you and your family are really having a

hard time. Sometimes medications can bring the anxiety down far enough that the

child/adult can work in ERP. Some medications (ie, Zoloft) are available as

liquid concentrates that you mix with a drink if you think this would be easier

for her than swallowing a pill. The Zoloft does have some taste but our 9 yo

daughter drinks hers daily in OJ and rarely complains (and she has never been a

good medicine taker, but I think she really knows now that this is helping her).

>

> I don't know if your daughter's therapist has explained to you about

accommodation. When you let her OCD boss you around (ie, you stand still and do

nothing because she gets upset by change), you are accommodating the OCD.

Although it is impossible to never accommodate (especially when a child is

severely anxious or you are trying to run a family and maintain your own

sanity!), OCD is a greedy boss, " if you give it an inch, it will take a mile. "

When our daughter is not willing to work, we have had to tell her that we will

decrease accommodations (although we haven't removed them completely). She

wants a piece of bar soap and extra towels to take to school. The first week or

two I got them for her; now it is her job and if she forgets, I still expect her

to use the bathroom. This summer, when she was functioning much worse, we had

huge tantrums over the size and newness of the piece of soap she was expected to

use to wash after toileting. My

> husband initially said the tantrums would stop if I just gave her what she

wanted; I had to explain to him that the OCD would just keep getting more rigid

about the soap and other components of her ritual each time we gave in. It was

not a fun summer! for any of us, but with therapy throughout the summer and

increased medication dosages, she is now doing much better.

>

> Please don't think I am saying that you are wrong for accommodating. It is a

very natural tendency. Parents want to make their children feel better when

they are so clearly suffering; the problem is that in the long run it ends up

making things worse not better. Perhaps it is a bit like when you insist that

your young medicine-hating child takes her medications because you know that if

you don't fight that battle, the illness will get worse.

>

[Guest guest]

Hang in there! My 11-year old daughter refused medicine for months, and only

tried them when our doctor called the psychiatric hospital for emergency

admission. We went through the admissions process and interview, and my

daughter was so desperate not to be admitted that she agreed to try the

medicine. It's still a 1/2 hour battle pretty much every night to get her to

take her Zoloft, but she is taking it and her rages are much less frequent and

intense now. I hated to put her on medicine but can really see that it's

helping. She definitely still has many OCD issues/symptoms--but the wild,

out-of-control, unsafe behavior is mostly gone. Joanne

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I need to find out which hospital near me works with pediatric OCD and

talk to our insurance company. I hope it doesn't come to admitting her, but I

need to be prepared for it.

>

>

> Hang in there! My 11-year old daughter refused medicine for months, and only

tried them when our doctor called the psychiatric hospital for emergency

admission. We went through the admissions process and interview, and my

daughter was so desperate not to be admitted that she agreed to try the

medicine. It's still a 1/2 hour battle pretty much every night to get her to

take her Zoloft, but she is taking it and her rages are much less frequent and

intense now. I hated to put her on medicine but can really see that it's

helping. She definitely still has many OCD issues/symptoms--but the wild,

out-of-control, unsafe behavior is mostly gone. Joanne

>

[Guest guest]

Great idea to mix it with OJ. Hopefully that will work for her.

I know that accommodation is bad, but she has only been in therapy for about 3

weeks and isn't on meds yet. She is making good progress on the 3 goals she is

working on, and is having some successes in other areas. We're trying to keep

the anxiety levels down by accommodating the other areas for now. I am starting

to limit the time I will accommodate, by saying I will stay here for X minutes,

and then leaving.

I appreciate you insight and support.

Beth

> The Zoloft does have some taste but our 9 yo daughter drinks hers daily in OJ

and rarely complains (and she has never been a good medicine taker, but I think

she really knows now that this is helping her).

>

> I don't know if your daughter's therapist has explained to you about

accommodation. When you let her OCD boss you around (ie, you stand still and do

nothing because she gets upset by change), you are accommodating the OCD.

Although it is impossible to never accommodate (especially when a child is

severely anxious or you are trying to run a family and maintain your own

sanity!), OCD is a greedy boss, " if you give it an inch, it will take a mile. "

When our daughter is not willing to work, we have had to tell her that we will

decrease accommodations (although we haven't removed them completely).

[Guest guest]

, she is working on her hierarchy with the therapist, but struggles to

number them because it depends on her mood. If she is calm, it might be 0-2, if

she is upset already, it jumps to a 10. Because of this we decided to just jump

to the health issues (eating, bathing, wiping, brushing teeth) and reward for

those. She is having success and is starting to feel a bit more hopeful.

>

> There is a technique for a child that has so many issues. It is usually

called something like " detective work " . If you have not read about slowly

building a heirarchy (it takes a week or two to build), let me know & I'll write

more. Then you don't have to call it ERP - you just call it bravery work to

retrain your brain. You look for the tiniest thing that she could succeed at.

Perhaps it is simply moving one pinkie finger on a sofa for a fraction of an

inch. It is very painful work at first, for a parent to watch, because it seems

to go so slowly. But then it can gain speed. Have you seen the ABC special on

OCD in kids? If not, watch the girl that was afraid to touch her parents. They

literally measure progress in inches.

[Guest guest]

Beth,

You're right that you can't get rid of all accommodation at once especially at

the start of therapy. Hope she continues to make progress.

>

> Subject: Re: Rages, and inconsistent OCD

> To:

> Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 12:39 PM

> Great idea to mix it with OJ. 

> Hopefully that will work for her.

>

> I know that accommodation is bad, but she has only been in

> therapy for about 3 weeks and isn't on meds yet.  She

> is making good progress on the 3 goals she is working on,

> and is having some successes in other areas.  We're

> trying to keep the anxiety levels down by accommodating the

> other areas for now.  I am starting to limit the time I

> will accommodate, by saying I will stay here for X minutes,

> and then leaving. 

>

> I appreciate you insight and support.

>

> Beth

>

> > The Zoloft does have some taste but our 9 yo daughter

> drinks hers daily in OJ and rarely complains  (and she

> has never been a good medicine taker, but I think she really

> knows now that this is helping her).

> >

> > I don't know if your daughter's therapist has

> explained to you about accommodation.  When you let her

> OCD boss you around (ie, you stand still and do nothing

> because she gets upset by change), you are accommodating the

> OCD.  Although it is impossible to never accommodate

> (especially when a child is severely anxious or you are

> trying to run a family and maintain your own sanity!), OCD

> is a greedy boss, " if you give it an inch, it will take a

> mile. "   When our daughter is not willing to work, we

> have had to tell her that we will decrease accommodations

> (although we haven't removed them completely). 

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> I know that

accommodation is bad, but she has only been in therapy for about 3 weeks and

isn't on meds yet. She is making good progress on the 3 goals she is working

on, and is having some successes in other areas.

Hi, wanted to say that just beginning therapy can increase the OCD, having to

work on things, etc. That's great she's working on some goals! Sometimes just

succeeding with 1 can make the others much easier to conquer, goes faster, and

some behaviors may just " disappear. " At least that's the way it went with us.

[Guest guest]

That is great! It doesn't matter where the success starts - so long as they

find a way to start! Meg also had a lot of trouble with " ranking " at first -

she was " afraid to lie " , so as a result, she could not answer many direct

questions. So we would do ranges. And often any issue would have a few ranges

- one one a " good " day, and one one a " bad day " . Then we would also have stuff

that was a 10 - but we could break it down. So " not spitting for an entire day "

- was a 10. Then we broke in into tiny pieces, until we found " not spitting for

5 seconds " was only a 2. So we started there. Same with washing. Not washing

when I touch something bad - was a 10. But " not washing until I play a 60

second hand game with mom " was only a 5 - etc.

So glad to hear that she is on the way forward - sounds like you are doing a

great job with her. Once you have worked on health issues, you will likely find

her motivated to work on other items as well. Best - in NC

> >

> > There is a technique for a child that has so many issues. It is usually

called something like " detective work " . If you have not read about slowly

building a heirarchy (it takes a week or two to build), let me know & I'll write

more. Then you don't have to call it ERP - you just call it bravery work to

retrain your brain. You look for the tiniest thing that she could succeed at.

Perhaps it is simply moving one pinkie finger on a sofa for a fraction of an

inch. It is very painful work at first, for a parent to watch, because it seems

to go so slowly. But then it can gain speed. Have you seen the ABC special on

OCD in kids? If not, watch the girl that was afraid to touch her parents. They

literally measure progress in inches.

>