Re: Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?

[Guest guest]

Hi Raven and Grobertson;Abuse is a very complex situation. After I left my parents' home, I offered to help my mom leave my father, who abused her both mentally and physically. I offered to help her start a new life, in a place where he could not find her. She claimed she could not leave because he would hunt her down and kill her. This may have been a real threat. At that time, i was 'free' of responsibility, other than to my husband, and was fully capable of helping someone remake their life. This was in the 1970's and 1980's.She refused to leave several times, so I gave up offering. She had her own mental issues (paranoid schizophrenia) and also seemed locked into a victim mode. After her husband died, she became dependant on a couple of women frieds who may have abused her

financially. I have had friends who had left abusive situations, and I have read about abusive churches. Part of the reason for staying may be that things gradually get more abusive. A person must decide 'how much is too much?' and "at what point do I decide to leave?" Or they may decide ' I have invested some years into this situation, and things can improve"That is why I stayed as long as I did in a church that was abusive, not specifically to me but to others. Nowadays, people are more aware of the need to teach children about dealing with abuse.Hopefully as these people grow up they will be adults who also refuse to accept abuse.renaissanzelady---

Raven wrote: "No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so, and one's silence is the same as granting permission."

gprobertson responded: " ... <snip> ... I think that the statement above gives bullies permission to do whatever they like because their victims are to blame ... <snip> ... "

It's unfortunate that you think that because the statement I made is accurate and correct.

Children are taught from an early age how to deal with situations that are unpleasant to them. They are taught to 'get away' from the situation.

As early as 3 years of age, in daycare and pre-school and kindergarten settings, the message that is repeated is that when someone is doing something that upsets you, WALK AWAY.

If that person follows you, TELL A GROWN UP.

If that person does nothing, KEEP TELLING GROWN UPS UNTIL SOMEONE LISTENS.

The discussion in this thread, however, was about adults who are even more able than children to WALK AWAY from abusive individuals ... in real life, online and anywhere else the individual may feel victimized or abused.

No one need remain in an abusive situation unless they choose to remain in said abusive situation.

If an adult finds himself or herself in a bad situation, AS or not, they have choices. If the individual CHOOSES to remain in the bad situation, that individual is giving silent permission for the abuse to continue.

In other words, gprobertson, no one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so, and one's silence is the same as granting permission.

Raven

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[Guest guest]

hi :Some of your points below could also apply to introverts, who in many cases allow other people to criticize us, say we are failures, etc. etc.

Unlike people with Autism and Apspergers syndrome, intoverts don't seem to be organized enough to have any type of presence or voice in the world

Any analogy will break down if carried too far; Autism and Aspergers are a difference of brain and genetics, not personality type, so am not intending to downplay what 'Aspies' have to face in the world.

renaissanzelady

"I disagree that autistics are selfish. Some are selfish. Some are remain in the state of egotism for much longer than average. That is not selfish. It is a developmental stage which must be understood."

I think developmental stagnation is certainly an explanation in some cases. But selfishness comes into play when you have adult Aspies who see the world around them, and see what they need to do to get involved in it, and stubbornly refuse to do what's necessary even though it behooves them to do so.

No standard psychological tact can remove them from this lethargy. If they are stuck there, it is by their own wills.

"Regarding apathy, many people now recognize learned helplessness as a byproduct of the way autistics are treated as constant failures."

Sure. But are we to say "Yeah. Well, let's let 'em stay there to compensate them for the imposition society makes upon them?" That's just enabling. If they want to prove to the world that they are NOT "constant failures" then they need to work harder and do it.

"Most people who live with constant criticism believe that they cannot succeed so they stop trying."

I believe this is true.

"After a while, they become unable to try."

I believe this is also true. But I think this is in most cases a choice, and not always the result of post-traumatic stress disorder.

I have seen many people quit their jobs because it was "too hard". But in reality, if they had taken time to LEARN and MAKE THE EFFORT, they could have done their jobs easily. And when these people quit, their comment was that the job was TOO HARD FOR EVERYONE, which is most certainly not true, because those who replaced them did well. Thus what's true is that it was hard for them, and rather than admit that they were either incapable of doing the job or making the effort to learn to do their job, it was much easier for them to blame everyone else and then quit.

Are we all to sit here and let the nearly 1 in 166 people in the world who have autism just layabout and loaf because life is "too hard for them." Some can work harder. Some can advocate on their own behalf. Some can make accommodations for themselves.

Yet how many make that choice?

The easier choice is to blame everyone else and stop trying. That is weak.

"Another factor can be the experience of only being able to attend to a limited number of experiences at a time. Someone who is struggling to live independently might not have the capacity for public advocacy."

Agreed. However, part of making one's living is making one's life easier. When a person buys a house, one of the things they can do in addition to paying off the mortgage is put in a little "sweat equity" to make their house worth more when they sell it. So it is with trying to eek out an existence. Yes, it is tough to advocate, but the payoff may be an easier life down the road.

Given the choice between a life of constant struggle verses a life of hard advocacy followed by a life of moderate struggle, which choice would be to the person's best advantage. Why, a little advocacy followed by moderate struggle. Yet the Aspie CHOOSES a life of constant struggle in the majority of cases.

Case in point: This forum.

Even if we don't all agree on what's being talked about here, those who participate contribute to the discussion and improve the knowledge and perspective of those who read the posts. But people who just lurk and never contribute do absolutely nothing to improve the lives of all the Aspies who hold membership here. They are leeches, in other words.

I deally, everyone should participate. As you can see, GP, despite the fact that I disagree with many of your views, I do agree with others, and your opinions in many cases have been of value to me and the members here. You have struggled against my contradictions to your posts, but look at the benefits to all of us.

Yet if you were weak, you'd quit. And how would that serve you or the members here?

"Someone locked into set routines may not be able to break out to take on other aspects of living, no matter how much they desire this."

I agree with you here, and offer no contrary viewpoint. I do know many Aspies who cannot tolerate a degree of change, and to movethem out of their comfort zone will cause more damage and disstress than it would save them.

"Autism is so complex that I find it hard to label people as I have been and continue to be labelled."

Agreed. But if you want to break any of these prefabricated molds, then you have to surprise the people who make the molds by proving them wrong. Now I know you DO advocacy in various forms, but not everyone here does. If everyone did, AS would be seen as very diverse as would autism and all the other ASDs. Yet at present, few people stand up for themselves and for others. This only enables the people who would further classify us.

Administrator

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[Guest guest]

Mimi says, excerpted; I always found jobs easy and coworkers hard. People who know what i do, tend to empathize and say "you must find it hard to deal with customers, suppliers, delivery people etc etc"It would be unwise to tell them the truth; "Those are OK, I am only dealing with each one for a few minuites, BUT an annoying co-worker I am stuck with.renaissanzeladySubject: Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?To:

FAMSecretSociety Received: Friday, April 24, 2009, 10:23 AM

>

I have seen many people quit their jobs because it was "too hard". But in reality, if they had taken time to LEARN and MAKE THE EFFORT, they could have done their jobs easily. And when these people quit, their comment was that the job was TOO HARD FOR EVERYONE, which is most certainly not true, because those who replaced them did well. Thus what's true is that it was hard for them, and rather than admit that they were either incapable of doing the job or making the effort to learn to do their job, it was much easier for them to blame everyone else and then quit.

Mimi says> I always found jobs easy and coworkers hard. I would work well even superior and flawlessly but one outspoken "inane" co-worker and I was restraining myself from escape. My reason were loyality and duty, and the distasteful idea that if I left operations would fail. The only jobs that were easy to leave were the ones that were taking advantage of me (once a co-worker intentionally burned me and the boss was not caring) They were shiocked when I didn't react and stunned when I silently quit a week later

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