Re: Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?

[Guest guest]

well if what you are saying is true, i hope all the other people with

disabilities stop choosing to use their wheelchairs, hearing aids,

guide dogs, breathing apparatus, glasses, asthma puffers etc etc and

choose to function without them. Just walk away guys. Its your choice.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome –

Can They Coexist?

gprobertson wrote: " The advice to walk away or to tell an adult is

only part of

the solution. We also need to remember that many adults went to school

where

they were told that bullying was a part of life and that they needed to

deal

with it ... <snip> ... "

Those adults aren't children anymore. It's time for those adults to

shoulder

the responsibility of how they are going to deal with abusive

behaviours.

Living in a 'victim' mindset is a choice on the part of the individual

who

chooses to live in a 'victim' mindset.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Also, many autistics, myself

included, have

difficulty understanding motives ... <snip> ... "

One does not need to understand the motive or motives of the individual

who is

being abusive.

If one is being treated in a way that is not to their liking, the

individual

need only walk away20from the individual who is mistreating them.

If walking away does not work, then more effective methods must be

accessed by

the individual being mistreated.

Understanding motive is not important.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have taken a significant amount

of

bullying either thinking that the person is making a mistake in what

they are

doing/saying or thinking that I have misunderstood ... <snip> ... "

That you have taken any amount of bullying because you have tried to

understand

motive is immaterial. You chose to subject yourself to more than the

initial

amount of bullying.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... That, combined with the lack of

peer group

for support means that the person's capacity to cope is significantly

reduced

.... <snip> ... "

All the more reason for a person with a 'reduced capacity to cope' to

walk way

from an abusive situation rather than stick around trying to figure out

'motive.'

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Unremitting trauma, as I noted in a

previous

email, may often result in brain changes and a developmental delay. The

adult

may have the same capacity as a very young child in dealing with social

trauma

.... <snip> ... "

Then it is highly recommended that persons who feel this descriptor

applies to

them should strongly consider counseling in order to be able to walk

away from

abusive situations rather than stick

around trying to figure out

'motive.'

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... In my situation, I am not always

able to

speak or act when I am in stressful situations. I freeze. Believe me,

this is

not a choice. I can act later, but that is far less effective than an

instant

response ... <snip> ... "

It is nature to defaul to the 'fight or flight' response. If you are

unable to

'speak or act' then you ought to be unable to spin your wheels trying

to figure

out 'motive.' To be able to focus on attempting to figure out 'motive'

you have

made it clear that you are in control of at least some of your

intellectual

faculties. Since you are in control of quite a bit (what with trying

to figure

out motive as per your description earlier in your post), you are able

to walk

away.

You choose to stay which has nothing whatsoever to do with 'freezing'

as you

have stated you are quite capable of trying to figure out motive while

the

situation is happening.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... We would not tell a person with the

same

capacity to walk as a baby that they are responsible for their mobility

restrictions ... <snip> ... "

And we would not tell someone who can walk as a baby that they ought to

stay put

all the time, never bother to move an inch on their own steam and

bemoan the

fact that they cannot run like the wind.

Further

more, if the person only had the capacity to walk as a baby, we

would not

watch them endanger themselves and say, " Oh well, you know, it's

because they

can only walk as a baby that I don't make them feel badly about it by

pointing

out that they are sitting on a railway track and that a train is

barreling down

on them. "

How much more 'sensitive' it is to their predicament to let them feel

good about

themselves all the while knowing that their death is imminent. But at

least

they went feeling very good about their impairment.

That being said, playing the role of victim is a choice and not a

physical

impairment with which one must live. There are treatment options for

the most

severely affected and those treatments are very successful if the

individual

chooses to make the most of said treatments.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I don't think we should do that to

people

with social disabilities and I dont think we should add to abuse by

calling each

other weak ... <snip> ... "

Those who choose to be weak should be told they are weak if they refuse

to

shoulder the responsibility of getting stronger.

Coddling does no one any good, most especially the coddled individual

who

chooses to remain in victimhood.

Raven

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

b

y an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

" Some people do respond to being forced into anger. I am one. But I am

very oppositional when upset. When this happens, I do not move in the

direction the person is trying to promote. I find another way to

achieve far more than expected however it does have emotional costs and

the people around me pay dearly for associating with a person in the

throes of perseveration.

Difficulites with perseveration occur when people trying to force me

into solutions that are not conducive to the person I am e.g. when my

parents died, their well meaning friends tried to include me in their

family activities. This resulted in extreme stress and anxiety because

I actually need to retreat and reflect if there is a sudden life

change. Conceptually I view the structure of my day as a house of

cards. if the bottom layer is knocked down, the whole stack falls, so

I need to take time out to restructure my life. I asked my children

how that affected them and they said it did not because I always

explained what was going on and made provision for their care. It did

affect my husband because he took a retreat from daily living as a

personal rejection and felt terrible angst at having a weird wife who

went camping ialone n isolated spots. I suspect people mocked that and

he was embarrassed. His way of dealing with stress was to go out

socializing. He was withdrawing from family too, but in=2

0his social

circles that was acceptable whereas my need to go camping on my own for

a few days was not. My husband was a very popular and socially

competant person. He was just not very good at communicating with or

understanding this autistic person who is fine when permitted to use

strategies that work for her.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome –

Can They Coexist?

" Criticism does not help. It just reinforces feelings of uselessness

and spirals deeper into depression and apathy. "

I agree that blatant criticism has this effect on people. Me included.

Constructive criticsm is a good thing in my opinion. The problem is,

many people cannot tell one type of criticsm from the other.

" If support is available, it should focus on breaking problems down

into small parts and then start working on the smallest, most

achievable aspect of the problem. This is the opposite to neurotypical

therapies which focus on prioritizing and working on the most important

things

first. Success breeds success and this is the way out of apathy, not

criticism. "

The problem is, life will not fall into the structure we would like.

Sometimes a pe

rson must deal with the whole whether they want to or

not. A death in the family, getting fired from a job, etc., are two

examples of this. Falling to pieces when things like this happen is a

useless waste of time and emotion.

" If the person has no support, inappropriate support or is in such a

depth of despair, it may take a critical incident to motivate change.

This is no different from the addict who needs to hit rock bottom

before finding motivation to move on. "

Yes. But what if support is unavailable? When push comes to shove, a

person has no choice in ANY circumstance but to rely upon himself or

herself.

" Sometimes the best support is to just be there for when the person is

ready. "

Agreed.

" Some people do respond to being forced into anger. I am one. But I am

very oppositional when upset. When this happens, I do not move in the

direction the person is trying to promote. I find another way to

achieve far more than expected however it does have emotional costs and

the people around me pay dearly for associating with a person in the

throes of perseveration. "

In other words, when forced to deal with someone else's reality, you

create your own and try to force others to deal with it. Is this in any

way fair? Especially in light of the fact that the other person's

reality may be entirely correct and yours wrong?

" I don't think that people caught in apathy

are usually trying to prove

anything to the world. I think they are usually struggling to convince

themselves that they are able to succeed. In that state, telling them

that they can is useless because their experiences demonstrate that

they cannot. "

I disagree. If others can do it, so can they. The difference is, the

effort involved may be overwhelming to them.

" Sometimes people cite themselves or others as examples of what can be

achieved. This just alienates the person we are trying to support and

reinforces that everyone, even other autistics see them as failures. "

Well, they are failures then. If another person can do something and

succeed, then they are a success story. Why deny them the right to

declare themselves a success. If another person fails to achieve that

succes, then they are a failure. Why deny them that label?

" Telling people they are making a choice to fail - some people have

more capacity to make choices than others. "

True. But when they don't even bother to try to make the effort, I

think that's pathetic. How do they KNOW they will fail every single

time if they do not try once.

" We cannot know how a person's autistic characteristics and prior

experiences can limit them. We have choices too - either provide

positive support or join the ranks of people who choose to demonstrate

their superiority by criticizing others. "

My problem is that I tend to get tired o

f people riding on my

coat-tails all the time. I am tired of putting in effort to win

victories to make the lives of lazy people easier. It makes me wonder

what I am working for sometimes.

" 18 months ago I was morbidly obese. I had been for years and was never

able to motivate myself to lose weight. I hated myself and often blamed

others e.g. I would lose weight if my thin husband did not want me to

cook high fat meals for him. I would lose weight if I could exercise

without toddlers in tow all the time. I could lose weight if I could

afford more nutritious food. When people nagged me I became even more

depressed and ended up never eating in public but comfort eating in

private. Because I could not allow anyone to see me with food, that

tended to be high fat carbohydrate loaded snack food. The change

happened when my grandson suddenly stopped wanting to spend time with

me. He finally told his dad that he was afraid that I would die and he

would not know what to do. I went to a bariatric specialist whose first

question when he realized I had not been a fat child was, " what was the

trauma that happened just before you started to gain weight? " Wow.

There was one - something huge and overwhelming. My husband had picked

me up and smashed my head against the phone box, fracturing my skull. I

did not press charges because I had no recollection of what had

happened. I thought=2

0I must have fallen. Years later someone told me he

had seen it. The guy was apologising for not telling the authorities

but he was a child and his parents had told him to keep out of this as

it was a domestic dispute. For some time I had been absolutely

terrified whenever my husband was nearby. I had no idea why and people

thought I was being silly and giving him a hard time. They were all

very sorry for him for having such a nasty, withdrawn wife. Now all the

time I was overweight, people told me I was weak and had no will power.

However I have lost 68 kilos in 18 months. I am not weak. I have had a

lot of trouble with the gastric band. Despite what people think it is

not easy. There are many restrictive rules before you lose weight. What

happened to me was that due to extreme trauma, and when the time was

right, I was ab le to summon the willpower to overcome multi auto

immune syndrome, which can develop as a part of trauma. Obesity is a

part of that. I am still the same pers on as the one who was considered

weak but now people are very complimentary about the weight I have

lost. Actually the struggle to avoid suicide when I was stuck in apathy

was harder than the enormous weight loss, so while I appeared to be lazy

and weak, survival was all that I had the energy for. I was slovenly,

depressed and apathetic but never weak. We just do not know the battles

people20fight unseen. "

Weight is not a good example though. Sometimes psychological issues get

inextricably linked with physical ones. Stress can cause weight gain or

weight loss, and sometimes a person can do nothing to eliminate stress.

This is different than making a choice about whether or not to do

something in one's life, like advocating for oneself or others.

I am talking more along the lines of simple things. If we are going to

complain that we are put upon by society, people are going to get tired

of hearing about it unless they see us making some attempts to improve

ourselves. That is my point.  

Admnistrator

 

[Guest guest]

auntyjack says hi tony, get your cute ass back in chat.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome –

Can They Coexist?

" I stand corrected. In Australia she has not been talking about her

personal life publicly to my knowledge. "

No problem. Having communicated with many of them (Donna. Tony, etc.),

I guess I just have a better idea than you do of what they are up to.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

thank you for letting me know that I am not alone in this here.

Unfortunately too many autistics are the victims of rape. I think we

just do not see the signs of people who cannot be trusted until it is

too late. The tendency to freeze when afraid does not help either.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome –

Can They Coexist?

>

> A personal story. 18 months ago I was morbidly obese. I had been

for years

and was never able to motivate myself to lose weight. I hated myself

and often

blamed others e.g. I would lose weight if my thin husband did not want

me to

cook high fat meals for him. I would lose weight if I could exercise

without

toddlers in tow all the time. I could lose weight if I could afford

more

nutritious food. When people nagged me I became even more depressed

and ended

up never eating in public but comfort eating in private. Because I

could not

allow anyone to see me with food, that tended to be high fat

carbohydrate loaded

snack food. The change happened when my grandson suddenly stopped

wanting to

spend time with me. He finally told his dad that he was afraid that I

would die

and he would not know what to do. I went to a bariatric specialist

whose first

question wh

> en he realized I had not been a fat child was, " what was the trauma

that

happened just before you started to gain weight? " Wow. There was one

-

something huge and overwhelming.

This made me suddenly start crying-- as your experience was similar to

mine

(that was 10 years ago for me, and the trauma was rape) but I think

Aspies are

more prone to this method of problem solving or rather the willingness

to

sacrifice themselves for peace, to just get to the next day for the

people that

they are protecting.

Sacrifice isn't asked for and if we were to remove ourselves completely

the

people we are trying to protect are vunerable. (that was what I was

told You

are not alloed to die!) you have to live wether you like it or not

because who

will take care of ( ) when you are gone. That seemed harsh but It

worked.

My moment came when my daughter complained she couldn't get her arms

around me

to hug me. It hurt but I thought it wasn't fair that my daughter

couldn''t hug

me because I had a fat wall between us.

anyway just wanted to say you weren't alone

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

0Awww.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.