Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?

[Guest guest]

" As you can see, GP, despite the fact that I disagree with many of

your views, I do agree with others, and your opinions in many cases

have been of value to me and the members here. You have struggled

against my contradictions to your posts, but look at the benefits to

all of us. "

This is such a nice thing to say. I have often considered leaving the

group because I did not fit in. The reason that I did not was that I

thought it was important to learn about people whose experiences result

in such different opinions to mine.

" That's just enabling. If they want to prove to the world that they are

NOT " constant failures " then they need to work harder and do it. "

Some lessons I have learned from my own experiences of being stuck:

Criticism does not help. It just reinforces feelings of uselessness

and spirals deeper into depression and apathy.

If support is available, it should focus on breaking problems down into

small parts and then start working on the smallest, most achievable

aspect of the problem. This is the opposite to neurotypical therapies

which focus on prioritizing and working on the most important things

first. Success breeds success and this is the way out of apathy, not

criticism.

If the person has no support, inappropriate support or is in such a

depth of despair, it may take a critical incident to motivate change.

This is no different fro

m the addict who needs to hit rock bottom

before finding motivation to move on.

Sometimes the best support is to just be there for when the person is

ready.

Some people do respond to being forced into anger. I am one. But I am

very oppositional when upset. When this happens, I do not move in the

direction the person is trying to promote. I find another way to

achieve far more than expected however it does have emotional costs and

the people around me pay dearly for associating with a person in the

throes of perseveration.

I don't think that people caught in apathy are usually trying to prove

anything to the world. I think they are usually struggling to convince

themselves that they are able to succeed. In that state, telling them

that they can is useless because their experiences demonstrate that

they cannot.

Sometimes people cite themselves or others as examples of what can be

achieved. This just alienates the person we are trying to support and

reinforces that everyone, even other autistics see them as failures.

Telling people they are making a choice to fail - some people have more

capacity to make choices than others. We cannot know how a person's

autistic characteristics and prior experiences can limit them. We have

choices too - either provide positive support or join the ranks of

people who choose to demonstrate their superiority by criticizing

others. Actually I do not believe t

hat statement. I believe that when

people make negative personal criticism, they are usually doing what

was done to them. I could say that if they are successful in aspects

of life, they often see that as appropriate. I do not think it is a

choice but it can become a choice when they have more information about

what is happening to others.

" The easier choice is to blame everyone else and stop trying. That is

weak. "

I don't think it is weak. I have been in that place and I am not weak.

A personal story. 18 months ago I was morbidly obese. I had been for

years and was never able to motivate myself to lose weight. I hated

myself and often blamed others e.g. I would lose weight if my thin

husband did not want me to cook high fat meals for him. I would lose

weight if I could exercise without toddlers in tow all the time. I

could lose weight if I could afford more nutritious food. When people

nagged me I became even more depressed and ended up never eating in

public but comfort eating in private. Because I could not allow anyone

to see me with food, that tended to be high fat carbohydrate loaded

snack food. The change happened when my grandson suddenly stopped

wanting to spend time with me. He finally told his dad that he was

afraid that I would die and he would not know what to do. I went to a

bariatric specialist whose first question wh

en he realized I had not

been a fat child was, " what was the trauma that happened just before

you started to gain weight? " Wow. There was one - something huge and

overwhelming. My husband had picked me up and smashed my head against

the phone box, fracturing my skull. I did not press charges because I

had no recollection of what had happened. I thought I must have

fallen. Years later someone told me he had seen it. The guy was

apologising for not telling the authorities but he was a child and his

parents had told him to keep out of this as it was a domestic dispute.

For some time I had been absolutely terrified whenever my husband was

nearby. I had no idea why and people thought I was being silly and

giving him a hard time. They were all very sorry for him for having

such a nasty, withdrawn wife. Now all the time I was overweight,

people told me I was weak and had no will power. However I have lost

68 kilos in 18 months. I am not weak. I have had a lot of trouble

with the gastric band. Despite what people think it is not easy.

There are many restrictive rules before you lose weight. What happened

to me was that due to extreme trauma, and when the time was right, I

was able to summon the willpower to overcome multi auto immune

syndrome, which can develop as a part of trauma. Obesity is a part of

that. I am still the same pers

on as the one who was considered weak

but now people are very complimentary about the weight I have lost.

Actually the struggle to avoid suicide when I was stuck in apathy was

harder than the enormous weight loss, so while I appeared to be lazy

and weak, survival was all that I had the energy for. I was slovenly,

depressed and apathetic but never weak.

We just do not know the battles people fight unseen.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

-- In FAMSecretSociety , gprobertson@... wrote:

" I disagree that autistics are selfish. Some are selfish. Some are

remain in the state of egotism for much longer than average. That is

not selfish. It is a developmental stage which must be understood. "

I think developmental stagnation is certainly an explanation in some

cases. But selfishness comes into play when you have adult Aspies who

see the world around them, and see what they need to do to get involved

in it, and stubbornly refuse to do what's necessary even though it

behooves them to do so.

No standard psychological tact can remove them from this lethargy. If

they are stuck there, it is by their own wills.

" Regarding apathy, many people now recognize learned helplessn

ess as a

byproduct of the way autistics are treated as constant failures. "

Sure. But are we to say " Yeah. Well, let's let 'em stay there to

compensate them for the imposition society makes upon them? " That's

just enabling. If they want to prove to the world that they are NOT

" constant failures " then they need to work harder and do it.

" Most people who live with constant criticism believe that they cannot

succeed so they stop trying. "

I believe this is true.

" After a while, they become unable to try. "

I believe this is also true. But I think this is in most cases a

choice, and not always the result of post-traumatic stress disorder.

I have seen many people quit their jobs because it was " too hard " . But

in reality, if they had taken time to LEARN and MAKE THE EFFORT, they

could have done their jobs easily. And when these people quit, their

comment was that the job was TOO HARD FOR EVERYONE, which is most

certainly not true, because those who replaced them did well. Thus

what's true is that it was hard for them, and rather than admit that

they were either incapable of doing the job or making the effort to

learn to do their job, it was much easier for them to blame everyone

else and then quit.

Are we all to sit here and let the nearly 1 in 166 people in the world

who have autism just layabout and loaf because life is " too hard for

them. "  Some can w

ork harder. Some can advocate on their own behalf.

Some can make accommodations for themselves.

Yet how many make that choice?

The easier choice is to blame everyone else and stop trying. That is

weak.

" Another factor can be the experience of only being able to attend to a

limited number of experiences at a time. Someone who is struggling to

live independently might not have the capacity for public advocacy. "

Agreed. However, part of making one's living is making one's life

easier. When a person buys a house, one of the things they can do in

addition to paying off the mortgage is put in a little " sweat equity "

to make their house worth more when they sell it. So it is with trying

to eek out an existence. Yes, it is tough to advocate, but the payoff

may be an easier life down the road.

Given the choice between a life of constant struggle verses a life of

hard advocacy followed by a life of moderate struggle, which choice

would be to the person's best advantage. Why, a little advocacy

followed by moderate struggle. Yet the Aspie CHOOSES a life of constant

struggle in the majority of cases.

Case in point: This forum.

Even if we don't all agree on what's being talked about here, those who

participate contribute to the discussion and improve the knowledge and

perspective of those who read the posts. But people who just lurk and

never contribute do absolutely nothing to im

prove the lives of all the

Aspies who hold membership here. They are leeches, in other words.

I deally, everyone should participate. As you can see, GP, despite the

fact that I disagree with many of your views, I do agree with others,

and your opinions in many cases have been of value to me and the

members here. You have struggled against my contradictions to your

posts, but look at the benefits to all of us.

Yet if you were weak, you'd quit. And how would that serve you or the

members here?

" Someone locked into set routines may not be able to break out to take

on other aspects of living, no matter how much they desire this. "

I agree with you here, and offer no contrary viewpoint. I do know many

Aspies who cannot tolerate a degree of change, and to movethem out of

their comfort zone will cause more damage and disstress than it would

save them.

" Autism is so complex that I find it hard to label people as I have

been and continue to be labelled. "

Agreed.  But if you want to break any of these prefabricated molds,

then you have to surprise the people who make the molds by proving them

wrong. Now I know you DO advocacy in various forms, but not everyone

here does. If everyone did, AS would be seen as very diverse as would

autism and all the other ASDs. Yet at present, few people stand up for

themselves and for others. This only enables the people who=2

0would

further classify us.

Administrator 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree that there is truth in what is said, just as there are selfish,

violent nt spouses but we do not label all non autistic spouses as

being incapable of forming positive relationships. Also, those spouses

are generally people who have lived without understanding Autism. My

son now understands far more about relationships than I did at the same

age. He still has difficulties but has the capacity to listen and

compromise so his relationship is different, but positive for both

parties and he is a brilliant parent.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

" i worry that when we slam each other, we are repeating social patterns

of discriminating against anyone who does not fit certain perceptions

of how people " should " behave or think. "

Theyn why don't we show the public that their perceptions are wrong?

Otherwise, why don't we admit that perhaps the general public may be

right?

Further: There is truth in what the public says, and we ought to own up

to it.

Administrator

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia m

ember to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

The advice to walk away or to tell an adult is only part of the

solution. We also need to remember that many adults went to school

where they were told that bullying was a part of life and that they

needed to deal with it. There are many studies which show the harm

done by this philosophy. Also, many autistics, myself included, have

difficulty understanding motives. I have taken a significant amount of

bullying either thinking that the person is making a mistake in what

they are doing/saying or thinking that I have misunderstood. That,

combined with the lack of peer group for support means that the

person's capacity to cope is significantly reduced. Unremitting

trauma, as I noted in a previous email, may often result in brain

changes and a developmental delay. The adult may have the same

capacity as a very young child in dealing with social trauma. In my

situation, I am not always able to speak or act when I am in stressful

situations. I freeze. Believe me, this is not a choice. I can act

later, but that is far less effective than an instant response. We

would not tell a person with the same capacity to walk as a baby that

they are responsible for their mobility restrictions. I don't think we

should do that to people with social disabilities and I dont think we

should add to abuse by calling each other weak.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

Raven wrote: " No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to

do so,

and one's silence is the same as granting permission. "

gprobertson responded: " ... <snip> ... I think that the statement

above gives

bullies permission to do whatever they like because their victims are

to blame

.... <snip> ... "

It's unfortunate that you think that because the statement I made is

accurate

and correct.

Children are taught from an early age how to deal with situations that

are

unpleasant to them. They are taught to 'get away' from the situation.

As early as 3 years of age, in daycare and pre-school and kindergarten

settings,

the message that is repeated is that when someone is doing something

that upsets

you, WALK AWAY.

If that person follows you, TELL A GROWN UP.

If that person does nothing, KEEP TELLING GROWN UPS UNTIL SOMEONE

LISTENS.

The discussion in this thread, however, was about adults who are even

more able

than children to WALK AWAY from abusive individuals ... in real life,

online and

anywhere else the individual may feel victimized or abused.

No one need remain in an abusive situation unless they choose to remain

in said

abusive situation.

If an adult finds hi

mself or herself in a bad situation, AS or not,

they have

choices. If the individual CHOOSES to remain in the bad situation,

that

individual is giving silent permission for the abuse to continue.

In other words, gprobertson, no one can abuse you unless you give them

permission to do so, and one's silence is the same as granting

permission.

Raven

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

gprobertson wrote: " The advice to walk away or to tell an adult is only part of

the solution. We also need to remember that many adults went to school where

they were told that bullying was a part of life and that they needed to deal

with it ... <snip> ... "

Those adults aren't children anymore. It's time for those adults to shoulder

the responsibility of how they are going to deal with abusive behaviours.

Living in a 'victim' mindset is a choice on the part of the individual who

chooses to live in a 'victim' mindset.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Also, many autistics, myself included, have

difficulty understanding motives ... <snip> ... "

One does not need to understand the motive or motives of the individual who is

being abusive.

If one is being treated in a way that is not to their liking, the individual

need only walk away from the individual who is mistreating them.

If walking away does not work, then more effective methods must be accessed by

the individual being mistreated.

Understanding motive is not important.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I have taken a significant amount of

bullying either thinking that the person is making a mistake in what they are

doing/saying or thinking that I have misunderstood ... <snip> ... "

That you have taken any amount of bullying because you have tried to understand

motive is immaterial. You chose to subject yourself to more than the initial

amount of bullying.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... That, combined with the lack of peer group

for support means that the person's capacity to cope is significantly reduced

.... <snip> ... "

All the more reason for a person with a 'reduced capacity to cope' to walk way

from an abusive situation rather than stick around trying to figure out

'motive.'

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Unremitting trauma, as I noted in a previous

email, may often result in brain changes and a developmental delay. The adult

may have the same capacity as a very young child in dealing with social trauma

.... <snip> ... "

Then it is highly recommended that persons who feel this descriptor applies to

them should strongly consider counseling in order to be able to walk away from

abusive situations rather than stick around trying to figure out 'motive.'

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... In my situation, I am not always able to

speak or act when I am in stressful situations. I freeze. Believe me, this is

not a choice. I can act later, but that is far less effective than an instant

response ... <snip> ... "

It is nature to defaul to the 'fight or flight' response. If you are unable to

'speak or act' then you ought to be unable to spin your wheels trying to figure

out 'motive.' To be able to focus on attempting to figure out 'motive' you have

made it clear that you are in control of at least some of your intellectual

faculties. Since you are in control of quite a bit (what with trying to figure

out motive as per your description earlier in your post), you are able to walk

away.

You choose to stay which has nothing whatsoever to do with 'freezing' as you

have stated you are quite capable of trying to figure out motive while the

situation is happening.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... We would not tell a person with the same

capacity to walk as a baby that they are responsible for their mobility

restrictions ... <snip> ... "

And we would not tell someone who can walk as a baby that they ought to stay put

all the time, never bother to move an inch on their own steam and bemoan the

fact that they cannot run like the wind.

Furthermore, if the person only had the capacity to walk as a baby, we would not

watch them endanger themselves and say, " Oh well, you know, it's because they

can only walk as a baby that I don't make them feel badly about it by pointing

out that they are sitting on a railway track and that a train is barreling down

on them. "

How much more 'sensitive' it is to their predicament to let them feel good about

themselves all the while knowing that their death is imminent. But at least

they went feeling very good about their impairment.

That being said, playing the role of victim is a choice and not a physical

impairment with which one must live. There are treatment options for the most

severely affected and those treatments are very successful if the individual

chooses to make the most of said treatments.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I don't think we should do that to people

with social disabilities and I dont think we should add to abuse by calling each

other weak ... <snip> ... "

Those who choose to be weak should be told they are weak if they refuse to

shoulder the responsibility of getting stronger.

Coddling does no one any good, most especially the coddled individual who

chooses to remain in victimhood.

Raven

[Guest guest]

"Criticism does not help. It just reinforces feelings of uselessness and spirals deeper into depression and apathy."

I agree that blatant criticism has this effect on people. Me included. Constructive criticsm is a good thing in my opinion. The problem is, many people cannot tell one type of criticsm from the other.

"If support is available, it should focus on breaking problems down into small parts and then start working on the smallest, most achievable aspect of the problem. This is the opposite to neurotypical therapies which focus on prioritizing and working on the most important thingsfirst. Success breeds success and this is the way out of apathy, not criticism."

The problem is, life will not fall into the structure we would like. Sometimes a person must deal with the whole whether they want to or not. A death in the family, getting fired from a job, etc., are two examples of this. Falling to pieces when things like this happen is a useless waste of time and emotion.

"If the person has no support, inappropriate support or is in such a depth of despair, it may take a critical incident to motivate change. This is no different from the addict who needs to hit rock bottom before finding motivation to move on."

Yes. But what if support is unavailable? When push comes to shove, a person has no choice in ANY circumstance but to rely upon himself or herself.

"Sometimes the best support is to just be there for when the person is ready."

Agreed.

"Some people do respond to being forced into anger. I am one. But I am very oppositional when upset. When this happens, I do not move in the direction the person is trying to promote. I find another way to achieve far more than expected however it does have emotional costs and the people around me pay dearly for associating with a person in thethroes of perseveration."

In other words, when forced to deal with someone else's reality, you create your own and try to force others to deal with it. Is this in any way fair? Especially in light of the fact that the other person's reality may be entirely correct and yours wrong?

"I don't think that people caught in apathy are usually trying to prove anything to the world. I think they are usually struggling to convince themselves that they are able to succeed. In that state, telling them that they can is useless because their experiences demonstrate thatthey cannot."

I disagree. If others can do it, so can they. The difference is, the effort involved may be overwhelming to them.

"Sometimes people cite themselves or others as examples of what can be achieved. This just alienates the person we are trying to support and reinforces that everyone, even other autistics see them as failures."

Well, they are failures then. If another person can do something and succeed, then they are a success story. Why deny them the right to declare themselves a success. If another person fails to achieve that succes, then they are a failure. Why deny them that label?

"Telling people they are making a choice to fail - some people have more capacity to make choices than others."

True. But when they don't even bother to try to make the effort, I think that's pathetic. How do they KNOW they will fail every single time if they do not try once.

"We cannot know how a person's autistic characteristics and prior experiences can limit them. We have choices too - either provide positive support or join the ranks of people who choose to demonstrate their superiority by criticizing others."

My problem is that I tend to get tired of people riding on my coat-tails all the time. I am tired of putting in effort to win victories to make the lives of lazy people easier. It makes me wonder what I am working for sometimes.

"18 months ago I was morbidly obese. I had been for years and was never able to motivate myself to lose weight. I hated myself and often blamed others e.g. I would lose weight if my thin husband did not want me to cook high fat meals for him. I would lose weight if I could exercise without toddlers in tow all the time. I could lose weight if I could afford more nutritious food. When people nagged me I became even more depressed and ended up never eating in public but comfort eating in private. Because I could not allow anyone to see me with food, that tended to be high fat carbohydrate loaded snack food. The change happened when my grandson suddenly stopped wanting to spend time with me. He finally told his dad that he was afraid that I would die and he would not know what to do. I went to a bariatric specialist whose first question when he realized I had not been a fat child was," what was the trauma that happened just before you started to gain weight?" Wow. There was one - something huge and overwhelming. My husband had picked me up and smashed my head against the phone box, fracturing my skull. I did not press charges because I had no recollection of what had happened. I thought I must have fallen. Years later someone told me he had seen it. The guy was apologising for not telling the authorities but he was a child and his parents had told him to keep out of this as it was a domestic dispute. For some time I had been absolutely terrified whenever my husband was nearby. I had no idea why and people thought I was being silly and giving him a hard time. They were all very sorry for him for having such a nasty, withdrawn wife. Now all the time I was overweight, people told me I was weak and had no will power. However I have lost 68 kilos in 18 months. I am not weak. I have had a lot of trouble with the gastric band. Despite what people think it is not easy. There are many restrictive rules before you lose weight. What happened to me was that due to extreme trauma, and when the time was right, I was able to summon the willpower to overcome multi auto immune syndrome, which can develop as a part of trauma. Obesity is a part of that. I am still the same pers on as the one who was considered weak but now people are very complimentary about the weight I have lost. Actually the struggle to avoid suicide when I was stuck in apathy was harder than the enormous weight loss, so while I appeared to be lazyand weak, survival was all that I had the energy for. I was slovenly, depressed and apathetic but never weak. We just do not know the battles people fight unseen."

Weight is not a good example though. Sometimes psychological issues get inextricably linked with physical ones. Stress can cause weight gain or weight loss, and sometimes a person can do nothing to eliminate stress. This is different than making a choice about whether or not to do something in one's life, like advocating for oneself or others.

I am talking more along the lines of simple things. If we are going to complain that we are put upon by society, people are going to get tired of hearing about it unless they see us making some attempts to improve ourselves. That is my point.

Admnistrator

[Guest guest]

I stand corrected. In Australia she has not been talking about her

personal life publicly to my knowledge.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

" Donna and are in good, long term relationships however they do

not talk about those in depth publicly. "

Anyone wanting to know about Lawson's sexual relationships in

glaring detail can peruse the following:

http://www.cra-rhone-alpes.org/cid/opac_css/index.php?lvl=author_see & id=415

Sex,Sexuality and the Autism Spectrum

Type de document :

texte imprimé

Auteurs :

LAWSON, Auteur

Editeur :

Kingsley Publishers (Londres)

Année de publication :

2005

Importance :

175 p.

Présentation :

ill.

Format :

15,5cm x 23cm x 1cm

ISBN/ISSN/EAN :

1-84310-284-6

Note générale :

Bibliogr. Index

Langues :

Anglais (eng)

 

 :

Written by an 'insider', an openly gay autistic adult, Lawson

writes frankly and honestly about autism, sex and

sexuality. In her new

book, she draws upon her own experience to examine the implications of

being autistic on relationships, sex and sexuality. Having discussed

subjects such as basic sex education and autism, the author goes

further to explore the wider issues of interpersonal relationships,

same sex attraction, bisexuality and transgender issues. She also

examines the unspoken rules that exist between people in relationships

and explains why these rules can be difficult and confusing for people

with autism. This book will give courage and information to adults with

autism or Asperger Syndrome and provide essential insights to those

living and working with them.

Anyone wanting to know in depth details about Donna 's

relationships can read the following, in addition to the extensive

descriptions of her romantic relationships in her various books :

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/95160

BELINDA

Are you currently in a relationship?

DONNA

Hi Belinda, yes, I am. But to give you some history, family breakdown

lead me to live with men from my mid teens to survive homelessness.

After 10 years of what was essentially 'domestic prostitution' I had

learned how to 'do' some semblance of relationships. After that I fell

in love in my 20s with someone who had elements of being on the

spectrum but because of acute Exposure Anxiety and attachment disorder,

I couldn't manage. In my 30s I

married someone also on the spectrum who

probably fitted Schizoid Personality Disorder and ended up leaving me

the day after the 2nd wedding anniversary and demanding half of

everything I'd ever earned. I then entered a lesbian relationship for 3

years with a recovered alcoholic. Finally I met my husband, in my

mid 30s. We've been married 8 years and together 9 years. He's high up

in I.T and identifies with ADD, Dyspraxia and Asperger's, and may be

Hyperlexic.

BELINDA

What initally attracted you to your partner or potential partners?

DONNA

Initially, it was that he was very shy and socially inept and I had

Exposure Anxiety with context blindness, face blindness and a degree of

social emotional agnosia so neither of us could read the signals, we

just had to be totally straight forward and that was sweet and comical.

He's very sensory but also solitary and that matters to me as I'm very

kinesthetic and very solitary too and we both had a really strong bent

for social justice and generosity of spirit...we're both 'helpers'.

He's a very nurturing character and our strengths and weaknesses

complimented each other hugely. I asked him to marry me because he was

the warmest, simplest, most real human and we were very sensual

together. I wrote of our relationship in a book called Everyday Heaven.

BELINDA

If you are in a relationship, are any of the aspects of your partner

unattractive

to you? If so what are they?

DONNA

Well whatever bugs me I wouldn't change. But he's very Aspie and I'm

very autie which means he is totally details oriented and a theorist

who reads everything before doing anything. I have some meaning

deafness (verbal agnosia) and the same with print (visual verbal

agnosia) so reading and listening are not my strengths. So I'm very

kinesthetic and activist and contrary to the stereotypes of Asperger's,

I'm a global thinker... I feel my world because in terms of details

thinking I'm so compartmentalised that if I go that way everything but

the piece I'm on disappears so its futile. I don't faff around

theorising, I DO and I intuit my world because I can't internally

mentalise like he can. So he finds I rush in and make mistakes along

the way, I feel he frustrates me with a style of instruction I can't

use. But he is also a great facilitator and he's learned, contrary to

his nature, to teach me kinesthetically through patterning. That's just

awesome for someone as cerebral as he is.

" I think a lot of people see Donna's husband providing support during

her talks and assume that she is dependent on him whereas the fact is

that they provide mutual support in somewhat different ways from most

relationships. Most people who go to 's talks know that she was

divorced but do not know the circumstances of her present relationship. "

Most UNINFORMED people20perhaps, but just about everyone who is anyone

in the autism world knows about the private lives of these two

individuals.

" Tony inferred that autistics are not interested in sexual

relationships. For some of us, the reverse is true and the need for sex

can be a problem if we do not have a partner with a similar level of

need. "

There have been studies which suggest that autistics are more likely

than non-autistics to be asexual. That was what he said specifically.

Not that we all were asexual.

" He made a number of jokes about the types of relationships autistics

have between each other, inferring that we sit around sharing

information about special interests and not much else. "

He may have. I was not there. But I know he has published some

information which is not in any way " dissing " people with AS, and what

he has published would seem to contrast somewhat with these jokes he

was telling.

" Some relationships are like that and if both parties are happy, well

to me that is fine. Others are nothing like that. He seems to think the

people he sees in his practice represent everyone. However people who

are happy in their relationships do not go for counselling, so his

perspective is distorted. "

A valid point.

" He very much based the talk on how unhappy non autitistic wives are

when married to an autistic partner. He forgets that the autistic

partner often feels misunders

tood and alienated too. "

Yes, but one needs to remember who his audience was. And even if this

IS his perception, let's remember that even Donna herself

spreads misinformation. To date, there is no study accepted by any

government body or medical organization which says that GFCF diets

work. Yet Donna promotes that nonsense.

Then let us not forget Temple Grandin, the autistic who " cured "

herself.

Sometimes I believe the biggest asses in the advocacy world are

autistics themselves, and not those who work on their behalf.

" He talked about how autistic partners think everything is fine when

their spouse is miserable. I think that does happen, but it is not as

universal as Tony tells people. I have also seen non autistic

relationships where one partner thinks that things are ok but the other

partner is miserable. It tends to be the male who is more content but

not always. "

Very true.

" Tony also rarely talks about autistic females in relationships. They

can really suffer from husbands who married them seeing a quiet woman

who will be subservient and obedient. Autistic women often suffer

horrendous abuse in relationships with neurotypical men, however I also

know of some really good mixed relationships. "

Please see this book to become informed of Tony Attwood's views on

Female Sexuality:

Asperger's Syndrome and Sexuality

 By Isabelle Henault, Tony Attwood

Admin

istrator

[Guest guest]

"I stand corrected. In Australia she has not been talking about her personal life publicly to my knowledge."

No problem. Having communicated with many of them (Donna. Tony, etc.), I guess I just have a better idea than you do of what they are up to.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> A personal story. 18 months ago I was morbidly obese. I had been for years

and was never able to motivate myself to lose weight. I hated myself and often

blamed others e.g. I would lose weight if my thin husband did not want me to

cook high fat meals for him. I would lose weight if I could exercise without

toddlers in tow all the time. I could lose weight if I could afford more

nutritious food. When people nagged me I became even more depressed and ended

up never eating in public but comfort eating in private. Because I could not

allow anyone to see me with food, that tended to be high fat carbohydrate loaded

snack food. The change happened when my grandson suddenly stopped wanting to

spend time with me. He finally told his dad that he was afraid that I would die

and he would not know what to do. I went to a bariatric specialist whose first

question wh

> en he realized I had not been a fat child was, " what was the trauma that

happened just before you started to gain weight? " Wow. There was one -

something huge and overwhelming.

This made me suddenly start crying-- as your experience was similar to mine

(that was 10 years ago for me, and the trauma was rape) but I think Aspies are

more prone to this method of problem solving or rather the willingness to

sacrifice themselves for peace, to just get to the next day for the people that

they are protecting.

Sacrifice isn't asked for and if we were to remove ourselves completely the

people we are trying to protect are vunerable. (that was what I was told You

are not alloed to die!) you have to live wether you like it or not because who

will take care of ( ) when you are gone. That seemed harsh but It worked.

My moment came when my daughter complained she couldn't get her arms around me

to hug me. It hurt but I thought it wasn't fair that my daughter couldn''t hug

me because I had a fat wall between us.

anyway just wanted to say you weren't alone

[Guest guest]

" Living in a 'victim' mindset is a choice on the part of the individual who

chooses to live in a 'victim' mindset. "

I'll admit that in the past I have been a victim, but I do question the choice

part, because although looking back at the situation I can see now that I was

most likely playing the role of a victim at the time I didn't think/feel such.

The particular time I am recalling is an abusive relationship I found myself in,

in my teens (I have mentioned such here before). I didn't instantly realise that

such was an abusive relationship, it didn't seem apparent at first. I know prior

to being in such a relationship I could not understand why women stayed with

abusive partners and then I found myself in such a relationship. Said

relationship was two years, which may seem nothing to some, but felt like a lot

to me; such was very intense. By the time I realised the guy was abusive (I hope

I have learnt from such experience, well I know the warning signs now), I felt I

was stuck in the relationship. He ended up playing mind games with me, I started

to feel it was all my fault. He was often apologetic telling me he loved me and

was sorry and he'd change and of course I did and wanted to believe him.

I did eventually get out of said relationship (obviously) and what triggered

such was my thinking side - not emotions. Said guy wanted to get married and

have children with me; I was sensible enough to know that bringing children into

such a relationship was not a good idea and got out as quick as I could. It

wasn't easy, the guy threatened to kill me and did lock me in his flat and I

actually lied to him to get out of the situation I was in (i.e. locked in his

flat) and I still feel guilty about lying, but I had to get out.

" ... <snip> ... I don't think we should do that to people

with social disabilities and I dont think we should add to abuse by calling each

other weak ... <snip> ... "

>

> Those who choose to be weak should be told they are weak if they refuse to

shoulder the responsibility of getting stronger.

>

> Coddling does no one any good, most especially the coddled individual who

chooses to remain in victimhood.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " It wasn't easy, the guy threatened to kill me and did lock me in his flat and

I actually lied to him to get out of the situation I was in (i.e. locked in his

flat) and I still feel guilty about lying, but I had to get out. "

>

> We're glad you got out.

>

>

>

>

> Administrator

>

I too would condome lying to flee to safety (when lying is good)