Re: Public perceptions.

[Guest guest]

And so because of all this negative publicity, society increasingly

sees us all as poor specimens of human beings, and this hits us all

whether we interact with the world or sit in the house like shut-ins.

This is a general disability issue. Recently in Australia there was a

feature tv program on a guy who was short of stature and who had

brittle bones. He is a brilliant lawyer and the implication was that

this was amazing. I think they should have done a feature on him but

the main focus should be his work, not his body. The same can happen

with women who achieve in business or academia. Intelligence, drive

and genitals are separate issues but the way these people are portrayed

actually increases society's persistence in treating people with

disabilities as if they need pity and with amazement if they manage to

break out of the prison of incorrect assumptions.

Re: Abuse and Bullying RE: Intimacy and

Asperger Syndrome

" I reckon a number of passive members do not post because their

feelings of hopelessness are reinforced by some of the members of this

forum. "

A valid opinion of course. It is quite possible that other people share =0

D

your views. They just aren't speaking in your favor. Probably because

their autism prevents it as you say.

" If anyone is reading this thread is humiliated by the low opinions

their peers have of them, they should try to remember that many people

understand and care about the factors that make life so hard for them

and that there are more caring and gentle ways to help people to work

towards achieving their dreams. "

I think there needs to be a distinction made between people who simply

CANNOT advocate for themselves because their autism prevents it, and

people who don't WANT to advocate because it is easier not to.

One of the ways in which I have sheltered this forum is that I have

refrained from posting the articles where the media trashes autistics.

Perhaps I should not have done that, and perhaps I should not going

forward. By and large, the majority of the articles out there about

autistics fall into seven categories:

1) The dumb but lovable autistic who aspires to a goal and achieves it.

Usually these stories involve winning a science competition or nning a

food drive, or managing to spend a whole two weeks in summer camp.

2) People who have committed a crime and use the defense that

" Asperger's made them do it " in court.

3) The poor parents who have had to give up all they have to take care

of their autistic children because their children cannot take care of

them

selves.

4) The great vaccine debate.

5) Autism can be cured through gluten-free diets, chelation therapy,

the Dore Group, ABA, etc., but gosh darn it, insurance companies won't

pay for any of it.  

6) The alleged abuse of autistics at some school or mental health

facility.

7) The autistic savant who can perform like a circus animal on demand.

Or else...wow! He's a great painter! Or a great writer! ...as if

autistics are not capable of being artists or writers.

If we were more capable, none of these stories would be written about

us. We live in a culture where lawyers believe it's fine to say

" Asperger's made me do it " because society is ignorant of what Asperger

Syndrome is, and very few people care to educate themselves about it.

Thus they come to believe that AS people are criminals, and that they

are criminals because they cannot help themselves.

And so because of all this negative publicity, society increasingly

sees us all as poor specimens of human beings, and this hits us all

whether we interact with the world or sit in the house like shut-ins.

Those of us who are capable need to be positive role models for

everyone and show the world what we are really like.

Now what I have been arguing in this thread is that I have discovered

that many -not all, but many- autistics are a bunch of layabouts who

not only feel sorry for themselves, but have an entire fi

le cabinet of

excuses at their sides so that they can make excuses for themselves on

demand when pressed.

I've seen it, and I'm tired of it. And so far, very few people -except

the usual posters- have attempted to prove me wrong.

When I see that I am wrong, I will believe it.

" I am not responding to any more posts on this topic because I believe

that will extend the criticism some members may well find too hard to

bear. "

You are enabling people by cow-towing to them. But I understand your

point of view, so will not press the issue with you.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... the way these people are portrayed

actually increases society's persistence in treating people with

disabilities as if they need pity ... <snip> ... "

That's because there is a group of people with disabilities, including AS, who

act as if all persons with such disabilities, including AS, need to be pitied.

For example, when an Aspie allows himself or herself to be bullied while

searching for the other person's motive(s) for doing so and then claiming that

they are unable to walk away from the abuse, they are demanding that the world

perceive them in such a way as to be pitied for being so 'unable to walk away

due to their AS.'

Raven

[Guest guest]

Toddler on lap sent before I had finished.

There are people who do not have disabilities who believe they need

pity too. Society does not therefore infer that all people without

disabilities need pity. Pity is a judgement that the kind of person

you are or the way that you live your life is inferior. Pity is an

insult.

Re: Public perceptions.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... the way these people are portrayed

actually increases society's persistence in treating people with

disabilities as if they need pity ... <snip> ... "

That's because there is a group of people with disabilities, including

AS, who

act as if all persons with such disabilities, including AS, need to be

pitied.

For example, when an Aspie allows himself or herself to be bullied

while

searching for the other person's motive(s) for doing so and then

claiming that

they are unable to walk away from the abuse, they are demanding that

the world

perceive them in such a way as to be pitied for being so 'unable to

walk away

due to their AS.'

Raven

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[Guest guest]

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Pity is a judgement that the kind of person

you are or the way that you live your life is inferior. Pity is an insult ...

<snip> ... "

So are you saying that when someone misuses their disability in order to

leverage pity (e.g. refusing to shoulder the responsibility of one's actions in

favour of playing the role of victim), he or she is insulting himself or

herself, or are you saying he or she is claiming that this or her life is

inferior?

Raven

[Guest guest]

1. I think very few people misuse disability.

2. I think that people who genuninely fall into self pity are making

the judgement that their lives are inferior or that they do not have

the capacity to change. I do believe they are insulting themselves

just as anyone who puts themselves down e.g. someone who says they are

ugly. I do not believe that this makes them bad or inferior people,

just downhearted.

Re: Public perceptions.

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... Pity is a judgement that the kind

of person

you are or the way that you live your life is inferior. Pity is an

insult ...

<snip> ... "

So are you saying that when someone misuses their disability in order

to

leverage pity (e.g. refusing to shoulder the responsibility of one's

actions in

favour of playing the role of victim), he or she is insulting himself

or

herself, or are you saying he or she is claiming that this or her life

is

inferior?

Raven

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

Define change. Why isn't change an insulting concept? Social control by doctors

is achieved through the rhetoric of change - of don't be yourself, turn yourself

into something instructed to you instead.

Why shouldn't it be society that does the changing?

>

> 1. I think very few people misuse disability.

> 2. I think that people who genuninely fall into self pity are making

> the judgement that their lives are inferior or that they do not have

> the capacity to change.

[Guest guest]

I think society should change but I also think that we have to meet

others half way. At the moment, many people think we should make all

the changes. I don't really understand most of this post, but I like

it because it is questioning, not insulting.

Re: Public perceptions.

Define change. Why isn't change an insulting concept? Social control by

doctors

is achieved through the rhetoric of change - of don't be yourself, turn

yourself

into something instructed to you instead.

Why shouldn't it be society that does the changing?

>

> 1. I think very few people misuse disability.

> 2. I think that people who genuninely fall into self pity are making

> the judgement that their lives are inferior or that they do not have

> the capacity to change.

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

gprobertson wrote: " ... <snip> ... I don't really understand most of this post,

but I like it because it is questioning, not insulting. "

Another passive aggressive dig.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Society can make superficial changes over time. I say superficial because one set of biases is typically replaced with a new set of biases.

Society can also change very radically very quickly. When this happens, it is for the worse. Mao's Great Leaps Forward were examples of this. A radicalized Chinese Communist minority attempted to overturn millennia of history and culture through force, humiliation, and cruelty. The result was that many 10's of millions of Chinese died. The French Revolution was another example of rapid change, one that resulted in vast bloodshed and the masses being used to install a new dictator who caused even greater losses on the battlefield, but nothing of substance changed for the masses, save that their lot became far worse.

I fear that we may see such a spasm of change in the US soon. The combination of economic woes, both private and what the government is going, and the swine flu that is being so aggressively hyped by the media, could push enough people over the edge to bring about sudden change for the worse. It has happened in this way before, why not again?

It all seems very conveniently timed.

"Why shouldn't it be society that does the changing?"I get the impression that society is in no rush to change. Perhaps change is happening, just slowly? A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

" Why shouldn't it be society that does the changing? "

I get the impression that society is in no rush to change. Perhaps change is

happening, just slowly?

> >

> > 1. I think very few people misuse disability.

> > 2. I think that people who genuninely fall into self pity are making

> > the judgement that their lives are inferior or that they do not have

> > the capacity to change.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi;possibly society is changing, slowly, as wrote;Think back to when minority groups were openly AND legally discriminated against, people with mental illneses were locked away by their families, people with physical disabilites were shut away, partially because many locations were not accessible to those with limited mobility, children with undiagnosed learning disabilities were thought to be disobedent and

punishedMaybe the next step forward in society is increased respect and opportunites for those who have neurological differences (aspies) or behaviour differences (introverts)renaissanzeladySubject: Re: Public perceptions.To: FAMSecretSociety Received: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 1:14 PM

"Why shouldn't it be society that does the changing?"

I get the impression that society is in no rush to change. Perhaps change is happening, just slowly?

> >

> > 1. I think very few people misuse disability.

> > 2. I think that people who genuninely fall into self pity are making

> > the judgement that their lives are inferior or that they do not have

> > the capacity to change.

>

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