Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?

[Guest guest]

I disagree that autistics are selfish. Some are selfish. Some are

remain in the state of egotism for much longer than average. That is

not selfish. It is a developmental stage which must be understood.

Regarding apathy, many people now recognize learned helplessness as a

byproduct of the way autistics are treated as constant failures. Most

people who live with constant criticism believe that they cannot

succeed so they stop trying. After a while, they become unable to try.

Another factor can be the experience of only being able to attend to a

limited number of experiences at a time. Someone who is struggling to

live independently might not have the capacity for public advocacy.

Someone locked into set routines may not be able to break out to take

on other aspects of living, no matter how much they desire this.

Autism is so complex that I find it hard to label people as I have been

and continue to be labelled.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

" I recently went to a Tony Attwood seminar where his presentation on

Aspergers and relationships made me very angry. Likewise the freak show

where Gisela Slater- mak

es money out of standing up and telling

people how useless and selfish her husband is while he smiles and nods

in agreement is disgusting. We need people with successful

relationships to do presentations but probably most Autistics are too

private to want to do that. "

We must admit ayway that we are selfish. We are demanding. We have

special needs and unless they are met, we will not be happy.

As an advocate for autistics, what bothers me most about this is the

apathy most people on the spectrum have for their predicament. They

live in the here and now, and have no concern about their future. They

do not seem to care about the plight of autistics yet to be born as

long as their own lives are not in any way threatened. They are quick

to anger but slow to react to anything. I have seen my NT relatives

start an online petition on some trivial matter and have thirty

thousand signatures on it in three days through their e-mail networks,

but we have yet to get 2,000 people to sign the Autism Speaks Don't

Speak for Me petition which has been in existence for THREE YEARS.

A few weeks ago, Raven and I went to a local Asperger support meeting.

The leader of that group (a non-Aspie) sent a caustic letter

threatening to close down the support group because none of the Aspies

would volunteer for anything, they did not seem to take an interest in

the group's events, and they didn't really

seem to care about the

topics of the meetings.

Raven and I went over there to present our own opinions on why this

might be. We pointed out to the group leader that he was feeding them

nothing but information from Autism Speaks about the how they were

rejects and burdens on society and all that. 

We pointed out that we had a different view on that.

We said that having been in the newspapers, and on the news, and having

the podcasts downloaded over 5,000 times, with them being linked to by

over 600 organizations around the world, and with us having direct

connections to the most well-known people and organizations in the

autism world we might be able to provide a perspective that would

invigorate and motivate these folks to be more participatory.

The leader would hear nothing of it and told us to get out. In the

presence of the Aspie members of his group, he in essence said that

these Aspies were like dumb cows that needed to be led around by the

nose, that they didn't know what was good for them, and it was his job

to tell them.

And here's the thing:

Not one Aspie disagreed with them.

We walked out of there and never turned back and I am not sorry. Those

Aspies deserve what happened to them. And it's my personal belief that

much of what is said about them like  Gisela Slater- says is

right.

There are very few people in all my

groups who can prove me wrong on

this. It's like pulling teeth to get anyone here to sign petitions, or

to participate in MIC. I once asked people in ALL my Aspie forums what

they would like to see as the subject for a future podcast. I told them

that this was an opportunity for them to be heard, and tell the world

what they wanted.

Out of 700 members, 50 of whom are active on my forums at any given

time, I had four responses.

Yet I hear all kinds of whining from Aspies about how bad the world is

for them and that they wish the world would understand them.

If everyone here put up links to the podcasts around the net on their

own sites, or posted them in other forums or the like, many more

thousands could get positive messages about Aspies. To date, I know of

our link being put up by members in two places by FAM members:

Maurice's blog, and a forum moderates for.

Aside from all of this, I can now see why it is that homosexuals urge

other homosexuals to come out of the closet, declare themselves, and

speak of their successes and contributions to the community.

I can also understand why they are not keen on coming out. Society does

not care about their contributions to society since society has already

rejected them.

Autistics with a good relationship jeopardize it just by bringing it up

for public view.

" The other thing is that most relationships

go through difficulties. If

your partner is Autistic, it is very easy to blame that and not work

out difficulties. "

This is true.

Administrator

 

[Guest guest]

gprobertson@... wrote:

>>Regarding apathy, many people now recognize learned helplessness as a

byproduct of the way autistics are treated as constant failures. Most

people who live with constant criticism believe that they cannot succeed so they

stop trying.<<

That was my experience. I tried reaching out to children my age, but I

was clueless on how to do so. After a while, and constant daily

bullying, I simply gave up and became self-centered. However, in my mind anyway,

self-centeredness and selfishness are not the same.

[Guest guest]

No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so, and

one's silence

is the same as granting permission.

um Autistics are subject to constant stress and abuse from birth.

While individual capacity to cope with this varies, ongoing trauma

results in significant brain changes which affect individual capacity

to respond to stress/perceived or real threats. I think that the

statement above gives bullies permission to do whatever they like

because their victims are to blame. I am really glad that brain

changes do to stress are being researched and understood so that fewer

people, particularly those in the caring professions blame victims.

http://healthvermont.gov/MH/docs/cafu/documents/TheEffectsofPsychologicalTraumao\

nChildrenandAdolescents.pdf

i worry that when we slam each other, we are repeating social patterns

of discriminating against anyone who does not fit certain perceptions

of how people " should " behave or think.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

gprobertson wrote: " I recently went to a Tony Attwood seminar where

his

presentation on Aspergers and relationships made me very angry.

Likewise the

freak show where Gisela Slater- makes money out of standing up

and telling

people how useless20and selfish her husband is while he smiles and nods

in

agreement is disgusting. We need people with successful relationships

to do

presentations but probably most Autistics are too private to want to do

that. "

Yes, that's how the vast majority of Aspies interact with others. They

have no

problem having NTs dictate to them how they are and how they must be

and how

they probably are and such, even when it shows them in a very negative

light and

calls into doubt whether Aspies are even able to do anything for

themselves

without being terrible people who allegedly fly into blind rages and

commit

unspeakable acts.

Gisela Slater- isn't awful; she's typical. Her husband is just

being a

typical Aspie it would appear insofar as so few Aspies actually appear

to stand

for anything, preferring to be told what they are feeling and

preferring to be

told what they are thinking and preferring to be told how they act and

react.

The people who promote our Audio Podcasts on Autism are nearly all NTs

with only

a very small handful of Aspies caring enough to even post links to

these

podcasts or linking directly themselves from their websites and own

group pages.

At conferences and symposiums and such, and I oftentimes see

Aspies

allowing their partners and/or parents and/or siblings and/or

caregivers tell

them how to act and react as if they are circus animals unable=2

0to

decide for

themselves how to act and react. Even circus animals are better able

to decide

for themselves how to act and react than these Aspies we meet at

conferences and

symposiums and such. They appear to be far more interested in fitting

the

stereotype than in presenting themselves for who they are, afraid to

upset their

'handlers.'

So don't blame the Tony Attwoods and the Gisela Slater-s of this

world;

blame those Autistics who CAN speak for themselves but who choose to

abdicate to

NTs who CHOOSE to present them in a skewed and bad light.

No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so, and

one's silence

is the same as granting permission.

Raven

------------------------------------

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by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

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administrator, use this e-mail address:

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Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

-- In FAMSecretSociety , gprobertson@... wrote:

"I disagree that autistics are selfish. Some are selfish. Some are remain in the state of egotism for much longer than average. That is not selfish. It is a developmental stage which must be understood."

I think developmental stagnation is certainly an explanation in some cases. But selfishness comes into play when you have adult Aspies who see the world around them, and see what they need to do to get involved in it, and stubbornly refuse to do what's necessary even though it behooves them to do so.

No standard psychological tact can remove them from this lethargy. If they are stuck there, it is by their own wills.

"Regarding apathy, many people now recognize learned helplessness as a byproduct of the way autistics are treated as constant failures."

Sure. But are we to say "Yeah. Well, let's let 'em stay there to compensate them for the imposition society makes upon them?" That's just enabling. If they want to prove to the world that they are NOT "constant failures" then they need to work harder and do it.

"Most people who live with constant criticism believe that they cannot succeed so they stop trying."

I believe this is true.

"After a while, they become unable to try."

I believe this is also true. But I think this is in most cases a choice, and not always the result of post-traumatic stress disorder.

I have seen many people quit their jobs because it was "too hard". But in reality, if they had taken time to LEARN and MAKE THE EFFORT, they could have done their jobs easily. And when these people quit, their comment was that the job was TOO HARD FOR EVERYONE, which is most certainly not true, because those who replaced them did well. Thus what's true is that it was hard for them, and rather than admit that they were either incapable of doing the job or making the effort to learn to do their job, it was much easier for them to blame everyone else and then quit.

Are we all to sit here and let the nearly 1 in 166 people in the world who have autism just layabout and loaf because life is "too hard for them." Some can work harder. Some can advocate on their own behalf. Some can make accommodations for themselves.

Yet how many make that choice?

The easier choice is to blame everyone else and stop trying. That is weak.

"Another factor can be the experience of only being able to attend to a limited number of experiences at a time. Someone who is struggling to live independently might not have the capacity for public advocacy."

Agreed. However, part of making one's living is making one's life easier. When a person buys a house, one of the things they can do in addition to paying off the mortgage is put in a little "sweat equity" to make their house worth more when they sell it. So it is with trying to eek out an existence. Yes, it is tough to advocate, but the payoff may be an easier life down the road.

Given the choice between a life of constant struggle verses a life of hard advocacy followed by a life of moderate struggle, which choice would be to the person's best advantage. Why, a little advocacy followed by moderate struggle. Yet the Aspie CHOOSES a life of constant struggle in the majority of cases.

Case in point: This forum.

Even if we don't all agree on what's being talked about here, those who participate contribute to the discussion and improve the knowledge and perspective of those who read the posts. But people who just lurk and never contribute do absolutely nothing to improve the lives of all the Aspies who hold membership here. They are leeches, in other words.

I deally, everyone should participate. As you can see, GP, despite the fact that I disagree with many of your views, I do agree with others, and your opinions in many cases have been of value to me and the members here. You have struggled against my contradictions to your posts, but look at the benefits to all of us.

Yet if you were weak, you'd quit. And how would that serve you or the members here?

"Someone locked into set routines may not be able to break out to take on other aspects of living, no matter how much they desire this."

I agree with you here, and offer no contrary viewpoint. I do know many Aspies who cannot tolerate a degree of change, and to movethem out of their comfort zone will cause more damage and disstress than it would save them.

"Autism is so complex that I find it hard to label people as I have been and continue to be labelled."

Agreed. But if you want to break any of these prefabricated molds, then you have to surprise the people who make the molds by proving them wrong. Now I know you DO advocacy in various forms, but not everyone here does. If everyone did, AS would be seen as very diverse as would autism and all the other ASDs. Yet at present, few people stand up for themselves and for others. This only enables the people who would further classify us.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" i worry that when we slam each other, we are repeating social patterns

of discriminating against anyone who does not fit certain perceptions

of how people " should " behave or think. "

Theyn why don't we show the public that their perceptions are wrong?

Otherwise, why don't we admit that perhaps the general public may be right?

Further: There is truth in what the public says, and we ought to own up to it.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Raven said:

" No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so, and

one's silence is the same as granting permission. "

" um Autistics are subject to constant stress and abuse from birth. "

So what?

I understand Raven's comments to mean that you can either internalize everything

and be ruled by the stress and abuse all your life oryou can wake up one day and

say " Hey, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me "

and move on. Therapy attempts to get people to do that whether they are AS or

NT. the difference is, many AS people seem to like it where they are and don't

seem to want to take control of their lives.

" While individual capacity to cope with this varies, ongoing trauma

results in significant brain changes which affect individual capacity

to respond to stress/perceived or real threats. "

Yep. the results can be physical as well as mentla, but the CHOICE to get over

it and move on is always there.

" I think that the statement above gives bullies permission to do whatever they

like because their victims are to blame. "

I think your statement gives Aspies free license to be lazy, resentful, loafing,

leeches on the basis that they haven't been liked and were picked on. If they

tried to apply for welfare on those grounds they'd be thrown out on the street.

It's a poor argument any way you look at it.

If it is true that bullies target a person's most vulnerable spot, then it

stands to reason that a person ought to become more strong in the primary areas

where they are attacked to counteract the bullies.

Alternatively, they can avoid the bullies, but they cannot hide or avoid them

forever. Doesn't it make sense to try and fight the world through

self-improvement?

" I am really glad that brain changes do to stress are being researched and

understood so that fewer people, particularly those in the caring professions

blame victims. "

I am aware of the studies. I've done a podcast on autism and bullying. I've

since done more research. Some people cannot hack it. But most can overcome bthe

effects of bullying. It's a choice whether or not they want to do it, and I have

little respect for those who will not even try.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Raven wrote: " No one can abuse you unless you give them permission to do so,

and one's silence is the same as granting permission. "

gprobertson responded: " ... <snip> ... I think that the statement above gives

bullies permission to do whatever they like because their victims are to blame

.... <snip> ... "

It's unfortunate that you think that because the statement I made is accurate

and correct.

Children are taught from an early age how to deal with situations that are

unpleasant to them. They are taught to 'get away' from the situation.

As early as 3 years of age, in daycare and pre-school and kindergarten settings,

the message that is repeated is that when someone is doing something that upsets

you, WALK AWAY.

If that person follows you, TELL A GROWN UP.

If that person does nothing, KEEP TELLING GROWN UPS UNTIL SOMEONE LISTENS.

The discussion in this thread, however, was about adults who are even more able

than children to WALK AWAY from abusive individuals ... in real life, online and

anywhere else the individual may feel victimized or abused.

No one need remain in an abusive situation unless they choose to remain in said

abusive situation.

If an adult finds himself or herself in a bad situation, AS or not, they have

choices. If the individual CHOOSES to remain in the bad situation, that

individual is giving silent permission for the abuse to continue.

In other words, gprobertson, no one can abuse you unless you give them

permission to do so, and one's silence is the same as granting permission.

Raven

[Guest guest]

I would suggest that attwood et al do not see adult autistics whose

relationships are healthy. That is why they need to conduct some

credible research before stereotyping all of us.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/AttwoodHenault/

" I agree totally with the sentiments expressed here. In Australia, the

Cassandras are actively lobbying to have our parenting rights curtailed

and they have a considerable amount of support as their spokesperson

has credibility in the mainstream disability movement. If you believe

that we should be judged on our merits as individuals, rather than on

stereotypes, please consider supporting the petition. "

I believe we should indeed be judged on our merits as individuals

rather than on stereotypes. However, it is necessary for society to

protect itself. Given that the majority of Aspies I have come into

contact with seem to act precisely as Attwood and Aston outline, I

think that until the majority of Aspies improve themselves, society is

entirely correct in taking pains to protect itself, and those of us who

make good parents and good spouses will unfortunately have to suffer.

Part of this sufferring is earned, as we have failed to motivate the

re

st of the Aspies to get themselves out of their selfish psychological

confines.

Admninistrator

 

[Guest guest]

Donna and are in good, long term relationships however they do

not talk about those in depth publicly. I think a lot of people see

Donna's husband providing support during her talks and assume that she

is dependent on him whereas the fact is that they provide mutual

support in somewhat different ways from most relationships. Most

people who go to 's talks know that she was divorced but do not

know the circumstances of her present relationship.

Tony inferred that autistics are not interested in sexual

relationships. For some of us, the reverse is true and the need for

sex can be a problem if we do not have a partner with a similar level

of need.

He made a number of jokes about the types of relationships autistics

have between each other, inferring that we sit around sharing

information about special interests and not much else. Some

relationships are like that and if both parties are happy, well to me

that is fine. Others are nothing like that. He seems to think the

people he sees in his practice represent everyone. However people who

are happy in their relationships do not go for counselling, so his

perspective is distorted.

He very much based the talk on how unhappy non autitistic wives are

when married to an autistic partner. He forgets that the autistic

partner often feels misunderstood and alienated too.

He talked about how autistic partners think everything20is fine when

their spouse is miserable. I think that does happen, but it is not as

universal as Tony tells people. I have also seen non autistic

relationships where one partner thinks that things are ok but the other

partner is miserable. It tends to be the male who is more content but

not always.

Tony also rarely talks about autistic females in relationships. They

can really suffer from husbands who married them seeing a quiet woman

who will be subservient and obedient. Autistic women often suffer

horrendous abuse in relationships with neurotypical men, however I also

know of some really good mixed relationships.

Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can

They Coexist?

Still cathing up with posts, so sorry if someone has already addressed

this.

" I recently went to a Tony Attwood seminar where his presentation on

Aspergers and relationships made me very angry. "

What was it about the presentation that made you angry? I am curious.

" We need people with successful relationships to do presentations but

probably

most Autistics are too private to want to do that. "

I've been to a couple of talks Donna has done and she is in a

long term

relationship - I think she is married and by the sounds of things20her

partner/husband is very supportive; he was with her at the talks. I

think he was

quite a techie type person to my recollection. Also Lawson has

Aspergers

and I believe is also in a long term relationship.

>

>

> I recently went to a Tony Attwood seminar where his presentation on

> Aspergers and relationships made me very angry. Likewise the freak

> show where Gisela Slater- makes money out of standing up and

> telling people how useless and selfish her husband is while he smiles

> and nods in agreement is disgusting. We need people with successful

> relationships to do presentations but probably most Autistics are too

> private to want to do that.

>

> The other thing is that most relationships go through difficulties.

If

> your partner is Autistic, it is very easy to blame that and not work

> out difficulties.

------------------------------------

Fellowship of the Aspergian Miracle is the last series of message

boards founded

by an original Aspergia member to carry the Aspergia name with the

www.aspergia.com website owner's permission. To contact the FAM forum

administrator, use this e-mail address:

FAMSecretSociety-owner

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

"Donna and are in good, long term relationships however they donot talk about those in depth publicly. "

Anyone wanting to know about Lawson's sexual relationships in glaring detail can peruse the following:

http://www.cra-rhone-alpes.org/cid/opac_css/index.php?lvl=author_see & id=415

Sex,Sexuality and the Autism Spectrum

Type de document :

texte imprimé

Auteurs :

LAWSON, Auteur

Editeur :

Kingsley Publishers (Londres)

Année de publication :

2005

Importance :

175 p.

Présentation :

ill.

Format :

15,5cm x 23cm x 1cm

ISBN/ISSN/EAN :

1-84310-284-6

Note générale :

Bibliogr. Index

Langues :

Anglais (eng)

:

Written by an 'insider', an openly gay autistic adult, Lawson writes frankly and honestly about autism, sex and sexuality. In her new book, she draws upon her own experience to examine the implications of being autistic on relationships, sex and sexuality. Having discussed subjects such as basic sex education and autism, the author goes further to explore the wider issues of interpersonal relationships, same sex attraction, bisexuality and transgender issues. She also examines the unspoken rules that exist between people in relationships and explains why these rules can be difficult and confusing for people with autism. This book will give courage and information to adults with autism or Asperger Syndrome and provide essential insights to those living and working with them.

Anyone wanting to know in depth details about Donna 's relationships can read the following, in addition to the extensive descriptions of her romantic relationships in her various books :

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/95160

BELINDAAre you currently in a relationship?DONNAHi Belinda, yes, I am. But to give you some history, family breakdown lead me to live with men from my mid teens to survive homelessness. After 10 years of what was essentially 'domestic prostitution' I had learned how to 'do' some semblance of relationships. After that I fell in love in my 20s with someone who had elements of being on the spectrum but because of acute Exposure Anxiety and attachment disorder, I couldn't manage. In my 30s I married someone also on the spectrum who probably fitted Schizoid Personality Disorder and ended up leaving me the day after the 2nd wedding anniversary and demanding half of everything I'd ever earned. I then entered a lesbian relationship for 3 years with a recovered alcoholic. Finally I met my husband, in my mid 30s. We've been married 8 years and together 9 years. He's high up in I.T and identifies with ADD, Dyspraxia and Asperger's, and may be Hyperlexic.BELINDAWhat initally attracted you to your partner or potential partners?DONNAInitially, it was that he was very shy and socially inept and I had Exposure Anxiety with context blindness, face blindness and a degree of social emotional agnosia so neither of us could read the signals, we just had to be totally straight forward and that was sweet and comical. He's very sensory but also solitary and that matters to me as I'm very kinesthetic and very solitary too and we both had a really strong bent for social justice and generosity of spirit...we're both 'helpers'. He's a very nurturing character and our strengths and weaknesses complimented each other hugely. I asked him to marry me because he was the warmest, simplest, most real human and we were very sensual together. I wrote of our relationship in a book called Everyday Heaven.BELINDAIf you are in a relationship, are any of the aspects of your partner unattractive to you? If so what are they?DONNAWell whatever bugs me I wouldn't change. But he's very Aspie and I'm very autie which means he is totally details oriented and a theorist who reads everything before doing anything. I have some meaning deafness (verbal agnosia) and the same with print (visual verbal agnosia) so reading and listening are not my strengths. So I'm very kinesthetic and activist and contrary to the stereotypes of Asperger's, I'm a global thinker... I feel my world because in terms of details thinking I'm so compartmentalised that if I go that way everything but the piece I'm on disappears so its futile. I don't faff around theorising, I DO and I intuit my world because I can't internally mentalise like he can. So he finds I rush in and make mistakes along the way, I feel he frustrates me with a style of instruction I can't use. But he is also a great facilitator and he's learned, contrary to his nature, to teach me kinesthetically through patterning. That's just awesome for someone as cerebral as he is.

"I think a lot of people see Donna's husband providing support during her talks and assume that she is dependent on him whereas the fact is that they provide mutual support in somewhat different ways from most relationships. Most people who go to 's talks know that she was divorced but do not know the circumstances of her present relationship."

Most UNINFORMED people perhaps, but just about everyone who is anyone in the autism world knows about the private lives of these two individuals.

"Tony inferred that autistics are not interested in sexual relationships. For some of us, the reverse is true and the need for sex can be a problem if we do not have a partner with a similar level of need."

There have been studies which suggest that autistics are more likely than non-autistics to be asexual. That was what he said specifically. Not that we all were asexual.

"He made a number of jokes about the types of relationships autistics have between each other, inferring that we sit around sharing information about special interests and not much else."

He may have. I was not there. But I know he has published some information which is not in any way "dissing" people with AS, and what he has published would seem to contrast somewhat with these jokes he was telling.

"Some relationships are like that and if both parties are happy, well to me that is fine. Others are nothing like that. He seems to think the people he sees in his practice represent everyone. However people who are happy in their relationships do not go for counselling, so his perspective is distorted."

A valid point. "He very much based the talk on how unhappy non autitistic wives are when married to an autistic partner. He forgets that the autistic partner often feels misunderstood and alienated too."

Yes, but one needs to remember who his audience was. And even if this IS his perception, let's remember that even Donna herself spreads misinformation. To date, there is no study accepted by any government body or medical organization which says that GFCF diets work. Yet Donna promotes that nonsense.

Then let us not forget Temple Grandin, the autistic who "cured" herself.

Sometimes I believe the biggest asses in the advocacy world are autistics themselves, and not those who work on their behalf.

"He talked about how autistic partners think everything is fine when their spouse is miserable. I think that does happen, but it is not as universal as Tony tells people. I have also seen non autistic relationships where one partner thinks that things are ok but the other partner is miserable. It tends to be the male who is more content but not always."

Very true. "Tony also rarely talks about autistic females in relationships. They can really suffer from husbands who married them seeing a quiet woman who will be subservient and obedient. Autistic women often suffer horrendous abuse in relationships with neurotypical men, however I also know of some really good mixed relationships."

Please see this book to become informed of Tony Attwood's views on Female Sexuality:

Asperger's Syndrome and Sexuality

By Isabelle Henault, Tony Attwood

Administrator

[Guest guest]

gprobertson wrote: " Donna and are in good, long term relationships

however they do not talk about those in depth publicly. "

responded: " Anyone wanting to know about Lawson's sexual

relationships in glaring detail can peruse the following:

http://www.cra-rhone-alpes.org/cid/opac_css/index.php?lvl=author_see & id=415 ...

<snip> ... "

Hmmmm, this information certainly makes one wonder if gprobertson actually

mis-heard and mis-interpreted what was said by Tony Attwood et al at the

conference she claims to have attended.

Raven

[Guest guest]

>

I have seen many people quit their jobs because it was " too hard " . But in

reality, if they had taken time to LEARN and MAKE THE EFFORT, they could have

done their jobs easily. And when these people quit, their comment was that the

job was TOO HARD FOR EVERYONE, which is most certainly not true, because those

who replaced them did well. Thus what's true is that it was hard for them, and

rather than admit that they were either incapable of doing the job or making the

effort to learn to do their job, it was much easier for them to blame everyone

else and then quit.

Mimi says> I always found jobs easy and coworkers hard. I would work well even

superior and flawlessly but one outspoken " inane " co-worker and I was

restraining myself from escape. My reason were loyality and duty, and the

distasteful idea that if I left operations would fail. The only jobs that were

easy to leave were the ones that were taking advantage of me (once a co-worker

intentionally burned me and the boss was not caring) They were shiocked when I

didn't react and stunned when I silently quit a week later

[Guest guest]

>

No one need remain in an abusive situation unless they choose to remain in said

abusive situation.

If an adult finds himself or herself in a bad situation, AS or not, they have

choices. If the individual CHOOSES to remain in the bad situation, that

individual is giving silent permission for the abuse to continue.

In other words, gprobertson, no one can abuse you unless you give them

permission to do so, and one's silence is the same as granting permission.

Raven

The above is completely true and may still be chosen, to protect something other

than yourself, so yes silent permission-- the question is what is so precious

that you are willing to suffer

[Guest guest]

" The only jobs that were easy to leave were the ones that were taking advantage

of me (once a co-worker intentionally burned me and the boss was not caring)

They were shiocked when I didn't react and stunned when I silently quit a week

later. "

I quit a job for similar reasons. I was tired of getting burned. They were all

fired not long after I left.

Administrator