Re: Scared and searching for help

[Guest guest]

My son had issues with violence at one time. It came down to the SSRI

unfortunately. This happened on a couple different SSRI's. He became

aggressive with us and then suicidal. It is so vivid in my mind that it was

almost 2 yrs later that I allowed video games back into our home. He still has

a tendency to like violent things (war movies, wrestling for example). His

therapist feels (as do I) that his self-esteem is low and that perhaps his

imagination play make him feel more powerful and are OK as long as they are not

accompanied by verbal threats or the enactment of something he might want to do

to someone. I still limit this kind of exposure for him.

The anger and preoccupation with violence (the 2 did occur separately sometimes)

had a " driven " quality to it that is very unlike an ordinary response of his.

He would cry and say that he needed to play the violent video games and would

become enraged when he couldn't. It was so out of character for him. This is

the only way I can differentiate it for you. If you feel this may be the case,

do call your doctor with your concerns. Otherwise, be careful of outside

influences (TV, ect) with violent themes until you get a better sense of it.

Best wishes

Bonnie

>

> I have been watching the posts for a couple of weeks and have not seen this

issue addressed.  If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.  I know

" bad thoughts " go with OCD, however I don't know how bad is too bad (hope that

makes sense).  My daughter is  very open with me about the kinds of thoughts she

has and quite frankly they scare me.  Is there anyone out there that has a child

who openly shares their thoughts?  If so, do you find them highly disturbing?  I

read that they don't act on their thoughts, but I am not sure of my daughter

will or won't actually act.  She has had thoughts of " putting lead in her eyes "

and then later she hit a pencil so hard that the led flipped up in her eye.  It

scared her and she asked me to help her get it out.  The fact that she " made "

her thought come true is frightening.  She says she loves violence.  She has

thoughts of hurting others or killing.  Last night I found her trying to kill a

baby

> toad.  She didn't do it because " she was too scared. "  

>

> Although she is very open with me about her thoughts she does not want me to

share them with her therapist or her doctor.  I did tell them that she talked

about hurting herself because it worries me that she is crossing that line.  She

is 9 years old.  She is on celexa and methvin (for ADHD).  We are getting CBT as

well.  She seems to thrive on defiance.  She loves argueing with us, and if

allow it, we end up in the cycle of never being able to explain things away. 

Therefore we usually just stop it and then she is angry and doesn't know what to

do with her feelings.  I am so confused as to how to help her more than we

already are.  If anyone can help address the " bad thought " issue, I would

greatly appreciate it.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My son( he will be 8 in 3 weeks) has " bad thought " OCD. He started with it when

he was 4 years old. I can relate to how horrifying this is. My son use to say

unbeleivable things like, " I can see burning bodies all around me " " There is

poison and glass in my mouth and I'm going to throw up " etc., etc, etc,

He still says things like, " My OCD is telling me to stab you and dad, but I know

I really wouldn't do that. "

These thoughts are very disturbing, and I always ask my son if this is what he

wants to do or think, or if it is his OCD seeing this or thinking it.My son

tends to talk all the time and will constantly go on and on about these graphic

thoughts in complete detail.( He has ADHD as well)When he is prescribed an SSRI

he gets much worse instead of better. I tell him that I will not listen to this

kind of talk.My son has never acted on any of these things.He also does not want

to share these thoughts with the therapist , but I tell them that he must or I

will. My son will also threaten to kill himself when he is angry or if I punish

him. You need to analyze the situation and ask yourself if you think she really

may try to do something or see if she is saying this for attention.

Does your daughter ever seem to feel upset when she tells you about the

thoughts?

Hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

Hi, . Welcome.

If it helps any for her to hear that her thought didn't come true because

pencils have (non toxic) graphite, which is a type of carbon, rather than lead,

I would share that with her. Often OCD cannot be reasoned with, but in this

case, where it isn't lead, and that is a big fear for her, and where her OCD is

trying to convince her that she made her thought come true, it might be worth a

try.

You say she was trying to kill a baby toad. . .Was she actually harming it, or

was she holding it and thinking about it?

From what I've read about OCD " intrusive/bad thoughts " , they fear the thoughts

and would never act on them, no matter how disturbing they are. Our son was

fortunate enough to not have that manifestation as part of his OCD, but had

other thoughts (non violent) but equally as fearful and disturbing to him. They

find the thoughts very anxiety producing, which brings to mind that you said she

didn't kill the toad because she was too scared.

I would definitely share this information with her therapist and doctor. It can

be tough when they don't want to share stuff like that, but I would talk to our

son when he felt that way, explaining we were paying a lot of money and driving

a long distance to get him the help he needed so he could feel better. And it

was important for the therapist to know what he was struggling with so he could

help him. I also explained others, with OCD, struggle with the same things, so

this wasn't anything new or different to the therapist. Hopefully you can get

her to agree.

Did she have a reason for wanting to hurt herself? So sorry this is happening.

The arguing thing can be OCD. OCD can be so rigid and they are along for the

ride. My husband and son both do that. They will take the other side of a

situation, even if they agree with you, and argue it sometimes. I've often

wondered if in those cases if it is their OCD trying to even it up somehow. lol

You are doing the right thing by not participating/engaging. When you engage,

it feeds the situation. I found setting boundaries, stating it once, then

walking away, defuses the situation, but can be frustrating for them. Our son

has gotten better about learning to let it go. Like all things OCD, it is a

matter of them habituating to the feelings and eventually the anxiety associated

with it, will subside. Not always easy though. Josh has been known to follow

me and try to keep it going. It tries one's patience, that's for sure.

BJ

>

> I have been watching the posts for a couple of weeks and have not seen this

issue addressed.  If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.  I know

" bad thoughts " go with OCD, however I don't know how bad is too bad (hope that

makes sense).  My daughter is  very open with me about the kinds of thoughts she

has and quite frankly they scare me.  Is there anyone out there that has a child

who openly shares their thoughts?  If so, do you find them highly disturbing?  I

read that they don't act on their thoughts, but I am not sure of my daughter

will or won't actually act.  She has had thoughts of " putting lead in her eyes "

and then later she hit a pencil so hard that the led flipped up in her eye.  It

scared her and she asked me to help her get it out.  The fact that she " made "

her thought come true is frightening.  She says she loves violence.  She has

thoughts of hurting others or killing.  Last night I found her trying to kill a

baby

> toad.  She didn't do it because " she was too scared. "  

>

> Although she is very open with me about her thoughts she does not want me to

share them with her therapist or her doctor.  I did tell them that she talked

about hurting herself because it worries me that she is crossing that line.  She

is 9 years old.  She is on celexa and methvin (for ADHD).  We are getting CBT as

well.  She seems to thrive on defiance.  She loves argueing with us, and if

allow it, we end up in the cycle of never being able to explain things away. 

Therefore we usually just stop it and then she is angry and doesn't know what to

do with her feelings.  I am so confused as to how to help her more than we

already are.  If anyone can help address the " bad thought " issue, I would

greatly appreciate it.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Haven't had time to read the other replies but I'm sure they've

mentioned that " yes " OCD can cause very disturbing thoughts that can scare

parents and often upset the child too. I don't think there is a " too bad " for

thoughts with OCD. If they start to act on any thoughts, then you need to

wonder if it's more than OCD, but also think about did any of this worsen or

begin after starting or adjusting a medication?

>

> I have been watching the posts for a couple of weeks and have not seen this

issue addressed.  If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.  I know

" bad thoughts " go with OCD, however I don't know how bad is too bad (hope that

makes sense).  My daughter is  very open with me about the kinds of thoughts she

has and quite frankly they scare me.  Is there anyone out there that has a child

who openly shares their thoughts?  If so, do you find them highly disturbing?  I

read that they don't act on their thoughts, but I am not sure of my daughter

will or won't actually act.  She has had thoughts of " putting lead in her eyes "

and then later she hit a pencil so hard that the led flipped up in her eye.  It

scared her and she asked me to help her get it out.  The fact that she " made "

her thought come true is frightening.  She says she loves violence.  She has

thoughts of hurting others or killing.  Last night I found her trying to kill a

baby

> toad.  She didn't do it because " she was too scared. "  

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I understand how scary all this is. I could have written this post, but for the

fact that you have a daughter of 9, and my son was 15-16 when we went through

this. The thoughts are limited only to their own imagination, it seems. Ours

has a wild one, and had wild and concerning thoughts, exactly as you describe

and more.

I came to realize that if he was talking about it, it was something he feared,

even though he would say otherwise. They can come to lack insight and believe

they are there thoughts, and they are their OCD. Ours would state this, as if

it were a fact. So, they believe they would act on these violent thoughts, and

that they want them, or else they would not be in their head.

The more neutral you can be, and matter of fact about whatever she says, the

better she will be able to see that it is not her but the OCD. If you can take

the approach of accepting the thought, saying " that's interesting " , or even just

" hmmm " , it can neutralize it. The more attention and fear around it, the more

power you give to the thought and the more they believe it. It depends where

she is at with all this, however, and ideally you have the support of a

therapist with this.

Not sure the dose of celexa your daughter is on? Ours takes celexa too, and on

higher doses we ran into trouble, and it could just fuel the intensity of the

anger, as well as the thoughts, and ability to cope. Ours does best on 20mg,

but usually 60mg is optimal dose, it just depends on the person. Just mention

this in case.

The most reassuring thing I was told was from the psychiatrist on this site, who

said to me, if our son was talking about something he was not going to do it. I

am not talking about self injury or suicide, although these can be OCD based

thoughts too, but I would still always take these comments seriously, unless you

have determined they are OCD based.

The wanting to harm others can feel like a compulsion, and the answer to getting

it out of their head can seem like it is to act on this. But unlike other

rituals, they know they cannot act on this and so feel very stuck, is the best I

can figure it. Our son would say over and over if he could just do this it

would make the thought stop. But of course it would not, and I think ultimately

they know this, and of course they do have boundaries around this that stop

them.

Ours will still say things out loud - he is doing well now- but if something

triggers him and angers him he'll go. It's almost like a volcano blowing, and

then it's done. He says awful things, but as long as I don't respond it's done.

I do tell ours that I don't want to hear it and to keep it in his head, but

think it is a release. Still a teen....in process... He can acknowledge that is

OCD now, where before he could not or would not.

Until they learn how to manage the thoughts they often have no coping

strategies. Ours did not. We lived through some impossible times. At 9yrs,

I'm thinking you may be able to boss back the OCD when she cannot. Tell her you

will not listen to the OCD and neither should she. Remind her that she is not

her OCD and that a thought is just a thought.

Do look into the medication piece and determine if this is a contributing

factor. If you noticed an increase in these thoughts, ot in anger or

aggression, with the medication, depending how long it's been, you may want to

try reducing to see. Usually three weeks for things to settle to see change,

sometimes longer. I know this was a huge factor with ours.

You have my total empathy. This is so disturbing and upsetting, I know.

Remember that it is the disorder and not your daughter talking, and remind her

of this too (often they don't like this...but do it neutrally). Not sure what

you have read, but The Imp of the Mind is probably the best book on this. Also

books for your daughter to help her understand, if you haven't already. There

are many, just ask here.

Hang in there, the better you both understand this disorder the better you will

be able to manage all this.

Many hugs to you!

Barb

Ontario, Canada

Son, 18, OCD, LD - doing quite well now!

>

> I have been watching the posts for a couple of weeks and have not seen this

issue addressed.  If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.  I know

" bad thoughts " go with OCD, however I don't know how bad is too bad (hope that

makes sense).  My daughter is  very open with me about the kinds of thoughts she

has and quite frankly they scare me.  Is there anyone out there that has a child

who openly shares their thoughts?  If so, do you find them highly disturbing?  I

read that they don't act on their thoughts, but I am not sure of my daughter

will or won't actually act.  She has had thoughts of " putting lead in her eyes "

and then later she hit a pencil so hard that the led flipped up in her eye.  It

scared her and she asked me to help her get it out.  The fact that she " made "

her thought come true is frightening.  She says she loves violence.  She has

thoughts of hurting others or killing.  Last night I found her trying to kill a

baby

> toad.  She didn't do it because " she was too scared. "  

>

> Although she is very open with me about her thoughts she does not want me to

share them with her therapist or her doctor.  I did tell them that she talked

about hurting herself because it worries me that she is crossing that line.  She

is 9 years old.  She is on celexa and methvin (for ADHD).  We are getting CBT as

well.  She seems to thrive on defiance.  She loves argueing with us, and if

allow it, we end up in the cycle of never being able to explain things away. 

Therefore we usually just stop it and then she is angry and doesn't know what to

do with her feelings.  I am so confused as to how to help her more than we

already are.  If anyone can help address the " bad thought " issue, I would

greatly appreciate it.

>

>

>

>