Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

[Guest guest]

Oh, I so feel for you on this. Night is the time that I want to baby her the

most. It's so hard to strike a balance so that you are not part of their

rituals, but that they can be comforted and loved! We did not end up using Meds

at night, although I think it would make complete sense if needed. My husband

travels overseas, and has used Melatonin to get over the time changes. It's

very helpful for some.

we have developed a bedtime routine that includes a lot of love, some firmness,

and a variation that keeps it from being a ritual. We look for things that are

rituals & then make sure to change them. One of the things that I found very

helpful, is that we spent about a month working on how to tell yourself a story.

I would help her think of something really pleasant, and then teach her a story

about it, that she could then tell herself until she feel asleep. At the worst,

I inched (literally) myself out of her room, and downstairs over the time of

about 6-8 weeks. I just got a book & sat in there - so long as I was always

moving towards the door, even by an inch, we called it progress, so that she was

building strength in fighting the OCD. But we were our most flexible and low

pressure at night. Getting sleep always seemed like the most important thing.

We just tried really hard to be sure it was not adding to her rituals, if that

makes sense.

Sounds like she is such a sweet girl - and you are a loving mom. Good luck!

in NC.

[Guest guest]

Yes, anxiety is often worst at night when you have nothing else to distract you.

Our 9 yr old daughter is also very social and not that good at self-soothing, so

she likes to have people around her as much as possible. Both my 9 yr old with

OCD and my 7 yr old daughter are taking melatonin at night and feel it helps

them get to sleep. I am fairly sure this is true for the older one. At times,

we have also used soothing CDs (such as ocean waves, or a sound that she likes,

but is not too stimulating), letting her read herself to sleep, and guided

relaxations. We found a good kids relaxation book, with a lovely story about

the island of the sleeping ponies. I don't know if it is the story, the

soothing tone of voice, or both, but that did help for a while. Also, my

daughter finds patting the cat soothing (as do I).

Hope some of these suggestions help. If anyone wants the name of the relaxation

book, let me know and I will dig it up.

>

> Subject: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

> To: " OCD " < >

> Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:24 AM

> Another night, another bedtime,

> another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move past her

> bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have

> written about meds that help your kids sleep, is this why

> they need them? Do they have the worst anxiety at bedtime

> when the rituals have to stop and there is no doistraction

> to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we

> put bandaids on many fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to

> help her stop hurting herself. She seems to be in SO much

> pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has

> to do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take

> drink of water--over and over. After a while, she's a

> nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because nothing is

> working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of

> punishment, not anger, not begging--so tonight I simply

> stroked her face and talked quietly about the beautiful

> white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

> this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last

> few nights it's been hours before she just passes out from

> mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic

> disposition to make us stay...but I do believe she is so

> afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in bed with her,

> which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled

> up a little chair and just stayed close, stroking and

> talking. I am to the point where I would rather feel pity or

> empathy for her than feel anger towards her...as hard as it

> is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

> them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why

> some of your kids take meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist

> for the first time in two weeks, to finally try meds for

> confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much

> from sharing your journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You have my total empathy on this. It is very hard to witness them suffering so

much, and feel powerless to stop it, and the whole experience of it is

exhausting for everyone. So, I say do whatever works to ease this, so everyone

gets some sleep.

Our experience of it was that when medication was started to reduce anxiety and

intensity of the OCD, ours could go to sleep more easily. Prior to that he

could be up until 3 and 4am, and said he would even dream OCD stuff through the

night. As you say, when there are no distractions they are left alone with the

thoughts and this can be very scary to face alone and in the dark. For us it

was the reduction of anxiety and severity of the OCD from medication that

helped.

Many experience sleep disruption with sri's, however, as they can be activating,

and make it hard to wind down. Some take medication to counter this effect.

Melatonin is a natural sleep regulator that works for some. Others find sri's

sedating, I think this may be the case for ours, and he takes it at bedtime.

I would do whatever you can to support your daughter, while trying not to out

and out accomodate the OCD, which may not even be possible at this point

depending on the level of severity. I like your description of stroking your

daughter and quietly talking to her of the snow to come(although thoughts of

snow would not be my choice!). Anything you can do that is calming - quiet

music, white noise, breathing, visualizing.

It becomes really clear that they just can't release themselves from the OCD,

and need you desperately to help them, at bedtime. She may be afraid of the

dark, afraid of her dreams, afraid to be alone with those thoughts. So, staying

close by and helping her with this only makes sense to me, even if you do end up

feeding the OCD some. Sleep is so critical, for everyone!

I can still vividly remember barely being able to keep my eyes open at 2am, but

just staying with my son, 15, who had a look of terror in his eyes and begged me

to do something to make it stop. All I could say was that it wouldn't always be

this way, it would get better, because we both needed to believe that, and that

I was there for him(feeling completely powerless, but knowing that just being

there was everything at that moment). It was like this for our son for three

months, we tried ERP based treatment first, which was not possible, and we then

started medication.

Ours is better now, for one year, so know that it can get better! It takes time

and proper treatment, but they can learn how to manage this disorder and stop

being tormented by it. It may be that medication will make the difference for

yours.

Hang in there, I know it's hard!

Warmly,

Barb

Son, 18, OCD, LD

>

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

[Guest guest]

No!  Not meds!!  Try melatonin first!  My daughter (6yo - 45 lbs) takes 1mg

sublingual orange-flavored tablets by Source Naturals.  You can get melatonin

just about anywhere.  We get ours from our local health food store.  She used to

stay awake for hours worrying and getting out of bed (she also has Asperger's &

ADHD).  Now she is asleep within 30 minutes of taking the melatonin.  I would

start with 1 or 2mg and see how she does.  The orange-flavored sublingual

tablets that we use taste delicious!  You can't go wrong with it.  It's

completely safe.

Good luck!

Misty

________________________________

To: OCD < >

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:24:52 PM

Subject: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

 

Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion.. .and us along with her.

She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add- my 6 yr old started staying up till 3 or so in the morning,

this went on for weeks and Melatonin was a true gift. No sleep issues now. He

has been on it about 8 months and even my hubby who works 3rd shift takes it

(and he refuses to take any med). It really works. My son even said to me once

that he was so glad he could sleep now.

>

> No!  Not meds!!  Try melatonin first!  My daughter (6yo - 45 lbs) takes 1mg

sublingual orange-flavored tablets by Source Naturals.  You can get melatonin

just about anywhere.  We get ours from our local health food store.  She used to

stay awake for hours worrying and getting out of bed (she also has Asperger's &

ADHD).  Now she is asleep within 30 minutes of taking the melatonin.  I would

start with 1 or 2mg and see how she does.  The orange-flavored sublingual

tablets that we use taste delicious!  You can't go wrong with it.  It's

completely safe.

>

> Good luck!

> Misty

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: OCD < >

> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:24:52 PM

> Subject: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

>

>  

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion.. .and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Like everyone else, I feel for you.? I have a daughter, sixteen, who did not

sleep her first years of life.? She has OCD and Asperger's and sleeplessness is

common with both.? Many parents give in to the OCD at night and spend a lot of

time trying to make their kids feel better because they are tired and feel sorry

for the child because it's nighttime.? We have to be careful to not reinforce

the OCD.? When was very small, we decided she was going to need to sleep

in her room at normal times and without me.? We had a routine and a very firm

bedtime that at times disrupted our social life.? We also made sure we woke

up every single day at the same time.? We wanted her to have a habit of

sleeping at certain times.? As she became older, her doctor decided to put her

on Clonidine to help her fall asleep at night.? Clonidine is a blood pressure

medication that drops blood pressure just slightly which helps people to fall

asleep.? It stays in the system for about four hours so it is for falling asleep

and not for staying asleep.? That's another issue!? Clonidine has been used on

children for many years and is considered to be safe.? Of course, nothing is

completely without concern, even natural remedies and it is good to talk to your

doctor about anything you give your child.?? Someone else posted and said that

once your child's OCD starts to get better, the sleep will too and I agree.? It

really does get better.? I do not miss those sleepless nights!? Kelley in NV

Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

[Guest guest]

Yes my daughter's nighttime routine were exhausting and she wouldn't

sleep alone. The anxiety of going to school the next day fueled

obsessive activities that had to be done instead of going to bed.

It was years of suffering like this. We finally tried a medication for anxiety

this summer and it really helped her. She even

wants to sleep in her own bed. She wants too!!! She still has

problems and is not going to school full time yet, but treating the

anxiety medically has really quieted down the extreme

bedtime anxiety.

I don't ever want to go back to the life we had. What disorder we

had in our lives for years. We tried so many therapies and

relaxation strategies (quiet music, chimes, bells, bath before bed,

less TV, no TV, less computer, no computer, we changed schools,

we tried getting her up earlier, we tried reading books,

books on tape, diet changes, on and on).

It was helpful though looking at what are the triggers for

bedtime anxiety in her day. For us it was school anxiety.

Medication alone was not the answer. We had to change school too.

Pam

- In , katherinedobbs@... wrote:

>

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

When I read your posts it all sounds so familiar. We went through years

pre-OCD(diagnosed anyway, and nothing to see), but with GAD, and big

difficulties over bedtime, separation anxiety, school, challenging interactions

with me much as you describe. I often wonder now if we had started some

medication back then what impact that would have had. We tried everything but.

When the OCD came on board and functioning all but stopped, we felt there was no

choice anymore, and started medication. I look at our son now and wonder how

his childhood might have been if I had not been so strongly against medication.

We understood the anxiety to be a result of LD stuff and so always dealt with

the externals and coping strategies. Don't know until you know.....

Glad your daughter is doing better. How is the part time schooling going? Ours

goes half days and this works well for him, and thankfully there is no homework

with his school.

Warmly,

Barb

> >

> > Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

> >

> > She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on

many fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She

seems to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She

has to do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of

water--over and over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are

frustrated because nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats

of punishment, not anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and

talked quietly about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to

Wisconsin once again this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last

few nights it's been hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and

us along with her.

> >

> > She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

> >

> > Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids

take meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

> >

> >

> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I feel the same way Barb. How would her childhood have

been different if we were not so fearful of medication.

Same with us, once she stopped going to school in March we

had to do something. I was willing to take risks with side effects.

Same with us, she had some LD's and I thought once we get enough

school support it will be better but it wasn't.

Luckily my daughter does not seem to remember the years of raging at me and the

hitting and biting. And luckily I don't

blame my husband for withdrawing from it all. He was available

on some level to help me. There is noone to blame. There just aren't

good tools to see what kids really need the medications.

Barb, how did you get the school district to agree to a partial

day ongoing? Did the MD have to recommend it?

We are still working with the Yale Parenting Clinic. There

behaviorist has us gradually increasing her exposure to the

school (increases are 30 minutes each week). This is going well.

I don't think she will be able to manage a full day though

except maybe once in awhile.

Do you find with your son that he needs the time to process

the day. I do with our daughter. This is hard to explain to the

MD except to say she can't manage to consistently to calm down in the evening

and sleep so she can consistently get up on a full schedule.

She will be so busy reading, playing and obessing the longer the

day.

How is it your MD agreed to a half day rather than more medication?

She went from 12mg zoloft in July to 25, 35, 40 and now

50 in Sept. On this half day she doesn't not see anxious anymore at night just

like she needs the time in the afternoon and evening

to relax and read or play. Now she will lay in her own bed and

shine a flashlight on her hamster cage quietly. She is still up

to late. But it is so much better.

thanks for sharing your experiences!

Pam

-- In , " barb020961 " wrote:

>

> Hi Pam,

>

> When I read your posts it all sounds so familiar. We went through years

pre-OCD(diagnosed anyway, and nothing to see), but with GAD, and big

difficulties over bedtime, separation anxiety, school, challenging interactions

with me much as you describe. I often wonder now if we had started some

medication back then what impact that would have had. We tried everything but.

>

> When the OCD came on board and functioning all but stopped, we felt there was

no choice anymore, and started medication. I look at our son now and wonder how

his childhood might have been if I had not been so strongly against medication.

We understood the anxiety to be a result of LD stuff and so always dealt with

the externals and coping strategies. Don't know until you know.....

>

> Glad your daughter is doing better. How is the part time schooling going?

Ours goes half days and this works well for him, and thankfully there is no

homework with his school.

>

> Warmly,

> Barb

>

>

> > >

> > > Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9

move past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written

about meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have

the worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

> > >

> > > She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on

many fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She

seems to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She

has to do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of

water--over and over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are

frustrated because nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats

of punishment, not anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and

talked quietly about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to

Wisconsin once again this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last

few nights it's been hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and

us along with her.

> > >

> > > She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make

us stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay

in bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

> > >

> > > Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids

take meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing

your journeys.

> > >

> > >

> > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

I am in Canada, and I think the school system is probably different in this

regard. We are fortunate in that we have an alternative school program within

the school board. It is for kids who for one reason or another have had a lapse

in their schooling or are not able to go to their regular highschool(illness,

addiction, thrown out of school or home).

As you can imagine there is quite a collection of individuals, but it really

fits for ours and he likes it there. It is small, maybe 80 students, and they

work at their own pace, doing only one course at a time, and it is half days

only(guess they feel this is what works best with this population). There is the

support of the teachers, but they work on their own, so they must be able to do

this.

I do find ours needs to unwind or process the day too, and limits what he does

daily. He looks forward to tv time, then reads to unwind further, before bed.

He sleeps well, mostly has since medication was started, before that it was

awful. We are lucky with this, I know!

He works three shifts of three hours at my husbands restaurant, mopping floors

and doing dishes (because he doesn't want to have to deal with people). He

often says he finds it too much, but we are encouraging him to continue, with

the option to cut back if needed.

I find it " feels " like too much, more than it may actually " be " , and relate to

this feeling too. The feeling of overwhelm, when you are coping with mental

illness, is fatiguing. I find this when I am depressed, just thinking about

doing anything, feels like too much, but if I make myself move it gets easier.

It's a balancing act though, there are limits and depends on the ebb and flow of

the illness/disorder, as you know I'm sure.

Ours is 18, and in general is finding his way with pacing things for himself.

We feel strongly that he has to do this for himself, and we offer suggestions

and encourage and listen as he considers options for himself. I do find I need

to push him to do things though, there is avoidant behavior there, but I don't

try to " make him " , that just backfires. It really is a tricky balance with a

teen, isn't it?

Basically, as long as we see movement, we are happy. If he starts to close down

more, we nudge, or at least talk about it. I am noticing the fall depression

sliding in, for both of us... So need to be mindful and keep working with it.

I tend to take the approach of going with the flow of the seasonal change,

slowing down, cutting back, as energy is lower.

I let ours take one " mental health " day a month, and skip school. I find this

way it is planned, and he knows he will get a break. I also feel it is a good

learning, that you need to know your limits and do what you need to do for

yourself, no apologies.

Better stop now, and get ready for work! Glad your daughter is doing well in

the school program, and that's great that you have the support of the Yale

clinic. It may be that all day school is not an appropriate goal?

Best to treat them as the individual they are and focus on their needs, rather

than whatever the " norm " might be, don't you find? It can be really hard when

institutions are not necessarily geared or set up for this. We have needed to

opt out of mainstream for most things, and find alternatives, but sometimes

there just aren't any, sadly.

Warmest regards Pam!

Barb

>

> I feel the same way Barb. How would her childhood have

> been different if we were not so fearful of medication.

> Same with us, once she stopped going to school in March we

> had to do something. I was willing to take risks with side effects.

>

> Same with us, she had some LD's and I thought once we get enough

> school support it will be better but it wasn't.

>

> Luckily my daughter does not seem to remember the years of raging at me and

the hitting and biting. And luckily I don't

> blame my husband for withdrawing from it all. He was available

> on some level to help me. There is noone to blame. There just aren't

> good tools to see what kids really need the medications.

>

> Barb, how did you get the school district to agree to a partial

> day ongoing? Did the MD have to recommend it?

>

> We are still working with the Yale Parenting Clinic. There

> behaviorist has us gradually increasing her exposure to the

> school (increases are 30 minutes each week). This is going well.

> I don't think she will be able to manage a full day though

> except maybe once in awhile.

>

> Do you find with your son that he needs the time to process

> the day. I do with our daughter. This is hard to explain to the

> MD except to say she can't manage to consistently to calm down in the evening

and sleep so she can consistently get up on a full schedule.

> She will be so busy reading, playing and obessing the longer the

> day.

>

> How is it your MD agreed to a half day rather than more medication?

[Guest guest]

Wow, Barb, can't believe it's been a year. That's awesome!

BJ

>

> Hi ,

>

> You have my total empathy on this. It is very hard to witness them suffering

so much, and feel powerless to stop it, and the whole experience of it is

exhausting for everyone. So, I say do whatever works to ease this, so everyone

gets some sleep.

>

> Our experience of it was that when medication was started to reduce anxiety

and intensity of the OCD, ours could go to sleep more easily. Prior to that he

could be up until 3 and 4am, and said he would even dream OCD stuff through the

night. As you say, when there are no distractions they are left alone with the

thoughts and this can be very scary to face alone and in the dark. For us it

was the reduction of anxiety and severity of the OCD from medication that

helped.

>

> Many experience sleep disruption with sri's, however, as they can be

activating, and make it hard to wind down. Some take medication to counter this

effect. Melatonin is a natural sleep regulator that works for some. Others

find sri's sedating, I think this may be the case for ours, and he takes it at

bedtime.

>

> I would do whatever you can to support your daughter, while trying not to out

and out accomodate the OCD, which may not even be possible at this point

depending on the level of severity. I like your description of stroking your

daughter and quietly talking to her of the snow to come(although thoughts of

snow would not be my choice!). Anything you can do that is calming - quiet

music, white noise, breathing, visualizing.

>

> It becomes really clear that they just can't release themselves from the OCD,

and need you desperately to help them, at bedtime. She may be afraid of the

dark, afraid of her dreams, afraid to be alone with those thoughts. So, staying

close by and helping her with this only makes sense to me, even if you do end up

feeding the OCD some. Sleep is so critical, for everyone!

>

> I can still vividly remember barely being able to keep my eyes open at 2am,

but just staying with my son, 15, who had a look of terror in his eyes and

begged me to do something to make it stop. All I could say was that it wouldn't

always be this way, it would get better, because we both needed to believe that,

and that I was there for him(feeling completely powerless, but knowing that just

being there was everything at that moment). It was like this for our son for

three months, we tried ERP based treatment first, which was not possible, and we

then started medication.

>

> Ours is better now, for one year, so know that it can get better! It takes

time and proper treatment, but they can learn how to manage this disorder and

stop being tormented by it. It may be that medication will make the difference

for yours.

>

> Hang in there, I know it's hard!

>

> Warmly,

> Barb

> Son, 18, OCD, LD

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, . I didn't read all of the replies because I'm trying to catch up.

.. So, I might repeat things others have said.

Josh always was worse at night. He slept with a light on for years. Just a

soft light in the room to make it more bearable.

It's always worst at night. The anxiety would get always get worse. Like you

said, they have no way to distract from the OCD.

We tried many things, some things helped for a time. He used to listen to a

sleep CD. It was soft sounds that was supposed to aid sleeping. He also used

to listen to a tape his therapist made, that talked him through relaxation. It

gave him something to focus on, that also aided in helping relax the body.

Sometimes he would fall asleep during the process.

He took Benadryl for years. It helped. But at some point, after years, it

stopped, so we switched to Melatonin. It started working. Both are

alternatives to actual sleep meds, that are worth trying.

Currently, he is sleeping without anything. I think part of it was getting the

OCD/GAD under control, but also part of it was him aging. Getting some maturity

helped with everything.

I think you helping her through those rough moments are great. They are on such

a rough path, with OCD (and GAD in the case with your daughter and our son).

Sometimes we all just need the human touch and feel like someone knows and

cares. Been going through that a bit myself with my ongoing heart stuff.

It's a fine line between caring and enabling. I think it is possible to help

them, with caring, yet not enable. I used to soothe Josh while also coaching

him through the roughest patches. I hope things turn around for you soon.

Sleep is so crucial. It's hard on all involved.

BJ

>

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I am so sorry that you all are going through this. When my DD (now 10) has OCD

flares - she has a relaxation CD that we got from her therapist. It's geared

towards kids with anxiety. It has helped to settle her down even in the midst

of her worst flares. Please let me know if you'd like the name of it and I can

find it for you.

I hope that she gets better quickly.

Thoughts are with you,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Anne,

I'd be interested in knowing which CD you used also.

Ana

>

> Hello ,

>

> I am so sorry that you all are going through this. When my DD (now 10) has

OCD flares - she has a relaxation CD that we got from her therapist. It's

geared towards kids with anxiety. It has helped to settle her down even in the

midst of her worst flares. Please let me know if you'd like the name of it and

I can find it for you.

>

> I hope that she gets better quickly.

> Thoughts are with you,

> Anne

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Anne, I would love the name of the CD. At bedtime, she keeps getting

images from the show iCarly stuck in her head. They are usually scenes of a boy

character being put through some humiliation (water down the pants, a wedgy) and

she says it makes her " feel like she has to use the bathroom " as in urinate. She

gets terribly distraught. Last night I tried to have her sit with the image to

do some amateur ERP, and she just thrashed around in bed, clinging to me, for 30

minutes. This AFTER she took her first ever dose of Melatoinin. I had to take

her out to living room to watch some Fantasia to get her mind off it. It never

ends...then she cried when I dropped her off at school today. She seems to just

get worst...I can't wait for psychiatrist appointment next Friday, she really

needs something to curb her GAD so we can deal with OCD...and with likely Aspe

it's just a dreadful combo (as I'm sure others are).

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

Hello ,

I am so sorry that you all are going through this. When my DD (now 10) has OCD

flares - she has a relaxation CD that we got from her therapist. It's geared

towards kids with anxiety. It has helped to settle her down even in the midst

of her worst flares. Please let me know if you'd like the name of it and I can

find it for you.

I hope that she gets better quickly.

Thoughts are with you,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Hi  and Anne.  I haven't been on for awhile and I'm not sure if I

missed your email Anne with the name of the CD, as I would also be interested in

looking into it.  My son (12) has problems with  anxiety, handwashing and peeing

before being able to settle down for the night (at least for awhile before

waking with nightmares).  One thing we've used for years is a Westclox alarm

clock which has a choice of sounds of the rainforest, a babbling brook or

waves.  My son likes the waves.  (Although all that sound of water may not be

keeping his mind off trips to the bathroom (lol)  When not at his worst OCD

times, it does seem to calm him.  I'm not sure if its still on the market, but

I've seen this clock on ebay from time to time. 

Sylvia

________________________________

To: OCD < >

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:57:33 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

 

Thanks, Anne, I would love the name of the CD. At bedtime, she keeps getting

images from the show iCarly stuck in her head. They are usually scenes of a boy

character being put through some humiliation (water down the pants, a wedgy) and

she says it makes her " feel like she has to use the bathroom " as in urinate. She

gets terribly distraught. Last night I tried to have her sit with the image to

do some amateur ERP, and she just thrashed around in bed, clinging to me, for 30

minutes. This AFTER she took her first ever dose of Melatoinin. I had to take

her out to living room to watch some Fantasia to get her mind off it. It never

ends...then she cried when I dropped her off at school today. She seems to just

get worst....I can't wait for psychiatrist appointment next Friday, she really

needs something to curb her GAD so we can deal with OCD...and with likely Aspe

it's just a dreadful combo (as I'm sure others are).

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

Hello ,

I am so sorry that you all are going through this. When my DD (now 10) has OCD

flares - she has a relaxation CD that we got from her therapist. It's geared

towards kids with anxiety. It has helped to settle her down even in the midst of

her worst flares. Please let me know if you'd like the name of it and I can find

it for you.

I hope that she gets better quickly.

Thoughts are with you,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Funny, we actually starting using a " white noise " machine back when was a

baby. Lately we switched it to ocean waves (she has pee issues too, hmmm) just

to change things up. With her being our only child, in retrospect we've been

making conditions bend to her needs before we even KNEW what her needs were!

:-)

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

Hello ,

I am so sorry that you all are going through this. When my DD (now 10) has OCD

flares - she has a relaxation CD that we got from her therapist. It's geared

towards kids with anxiety. It has helped to settle her down even in the midst of

her worst flares. Please let me know if you'd like the name of it and I can find

it for you.

I hope that she gets better quickly.

Thoughts are with you,

Anne

[Guest guest]

We tried melatonin with my 8 year old dd about three weeks ago and it worked

great. Then, four nights ago it stopped working completely. The usual nightmare

of trying to go to sleep has returned full force. She can't stay in the bed,

lots of rituals, terrible fears. I even doubled her dosage from 1 to 2

milligrams last night, and it was still ineffective. Has this ever happened to

anyone else? What do you do? Is this just a flare up that will die down and the

melatonin will start working again?

Also, does anyone notice if the flare ups come with full moons? I know that

sounds ridiculous, but I am detecting a pattern. Interested to hear feedback on

this.

Thanks everybody!

>

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter (13) tried melatonin recently and had good results with it.

(The first night she took it she fell asleep with her head at the bottom of

the bed while I sat with her.she NEVER does that) It hasn't worked every

night though because when she is really anxious, she doesn't ALLOW herself

to fall asleep before she feels like she has done all the compulsions her

OCD is telling her to. She's afraid to fall asleep without completing them.

There is a window of time that it works for me as well. If I take it and

stay up too late, it isn't effective. My daughter's OCD gets worse during

her cycle. Maybe that is the same pattern as the full moon? We took one 3

mg tablet and found it effective. Lilly weighs 90 lbs and I weigh

considerable more and it worked for both of us.

Shaw

[Guest guest]

Regarding it not working, I can't say that ever happened, my 6 yr old takes 2mg

and on really anxious nights we go up to 3mg (never more). I know that there is

an individual dose each person does well on and it has nothing to do with size

or age. Maybe more trial or dosage?

As to full moons, I think there maybe something to that. I have a friend who is

a nurse as well as a therapist and swears they have more activity (the patients)

on full moon nights:)

> >

> > Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

> >

> > She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on

many fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She

seems to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She

has to do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of

water--over and over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are

frustrated because nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats

of punishment, not anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and

talked quietly about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to

Wisconsin once again this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last

few nights it's been hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and

us along with her.

> >

> > She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

> >

> > Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids

take meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

> >

> >

> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My dd9 has only been on it a few weeks, but it's still working! She takes 3mg

about an hour before bed. It's been great...I hope it doesn't stop working!

Maybe you should try 3mg? Our pdoc said we could go up to 5mg each night if

needed. Good luck!

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Not falling asleep due to bedtime anxiety

We tried melatonin with my 8 year old dd about three weeks ago and it worked

great. Then, four nights ago it stopped working completely. The usual nightmare

of trying to go to sleep has returned full force. She can't stay in the bed,

lots of rituals, terrible fears. I even doubled her dosage from 1 to 2

milligrams last night, and it was still ineffective. Has this ever happened to

anyone else? What do you do? Is this just a flare up that will die down and the

melatonin will start working again?

Also, does anyone notice if the flare ups come with full moons? I know that

sounds ridiculous, but I am detecting a pattern. Interested to hear feedback on

this.

Thanks everybody!

>

> Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

>

> She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on many

fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She seems

to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She has to

do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of water--over and

over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are frustrated because

nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats of punishment, not

anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and talked quietly

about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to Wisconsin once again

this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last few nights it's been

hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and us along with her.

>

> She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

>

> Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids take

meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

>

> Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

>

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

[Guest guest]

I work in a hospital and everyone swears by the full moon thing. I guess I do

see a little more than usual on those days and on holidays, but I don't know if

it's been researched.

I have used 3mg of melatonin for my son for a couple of years (since he was 8).

There were times that I gave him an antihistamine too (benadryl) on a

restless/anxious night so that he could sleep. Usually a night or two like that

meant that he was having an exacerbation of OCD symptoms. We'd focus on our

therapy then and things would begin to iron out. Are you seeing more anxiety

during the day too?

Hope it gets better

Bonnie

> >

> > Another night, another bedtime, another 1-2 hours trying to help my dd9 move

past her bedtime anxiety and fall asleep. Those of you who have written about

meds that help your kids sleep, is this why they need them? Do they have the

worst anxiety at bedtime when the rituals have to stop and there is no

doistraction to mask all the bad thoughts?

> >

> > She peels her nails and cuticles all day, so at night we put bandaids on

many fingers, sometimes even soft gloves to help her stop hurting herself. She

seems to be in SO much pain when her world goes quiet and still at night. She

has to do her routine--potty, blow nose, apply chapstick, take drink of

water--over and over. After a while, she's a nervous wreck, us parents are

frustrated because nothing is working--not logic, not suggestions, not threats

of punishment, not anger, not begging--so tonight I simply stroked her face and

talked quietly about the beautiful white snow that will make it's way to

Wisconsin once again this winter. Within 10 minites she was out, asleep...last

few nights it's been hours before she just passes out from mere exhaustion...and

us along with her.

> >

> > She admits she wants us near and will up her frantic disposition to make us

stay...but I do believe she is so afraid to be alone. Tonight rather than lay in

bed with her, which we try to avoid so it doesn't become habit, I pulled up a

little chair and just stayed close, stroking and talking. I am to the point

where I would rather feel pity or empathy for her than feel anger towards

her...as hard as it is to be us parents, it's got to be SO much worse to be

them.

> >

> > Sleepless kids? Rough nights? High anxiety? Is this why some of your kids

take meds for sleep? We see a psychiatrist for the first time in two weeks, to

finally try meds for confirmed OCD and GAD, and likely Aspergers.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your insight. I have learned so much from sharing your

journeys.

> >

> >

> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I

work in a hospital and everyone swears by the full moon thing.

When I used to work at the mental health center here, same thing. More

emergencies, commitments it seemed per what some clinicians said.

I guess I do see a little more than usual on those days and on holidays, but I

don't know if it's been researched.