Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?

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I've noticed over the last 10 or 15 years or so a growing trend that if one partner's emotional needs weren't being met that it was OK to leave the relationship without notice. I've also seen a trend where some say that cheating is also justified in such a case.

The standard seems to be very NT, meaning lots of touching, kissing, talking, partying and of course, sex. Sounds like this book is along the same lines. Not a lot about simple companionship and like interests, its all about emotions and base things.

Hi;

I think the tone of the book does seem insulting, implying that if the NT partner's emotional/intimacy needs are not being met, it is the fault of the Apergers/autistic person.

I'm going to try and get the book through the library, If I do, then I'll post a review after I have read it.

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[Guest guest]

Hi;

I think the tone of the book does seem insulting, implying that if the NT partner's emotional/intimacy needs are not being met, it is the fault of the Apergers/autistic person.

I'm going to try and get the book through the library, If I do, then I'll post a review after I have read it.

renaissanzelady

Subject: Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome – Can They Coexist?To: FAMSecretSociety Received: Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:28 PM

> > As a psychologist, Dr. Marshack shares poignant true stories – based> on her own life as well as the lives of her clients. So she has been hurt, and it makes guilty a whole class of population instead of the individual.> grow away from dysfunctional behavior> and dysfunctional relationships."Dysfunctional relationships" sounds like a witch hunt, to steer all the folks away from having relationships with us, when we are already lacking in them. Only NTs, her normal audience, count as having relationship needs.

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One of the biggest relationship myths is that Autistics are asexual.

Some are. On the other hand an active sex life is very important for

others. This is an issue that really needs to be sorted out one way or

another before marriage because it can be a torture to have a partner

with the opposite inclination.

Re: Re: Intimacy and Asperger Syndrome –

Can They Coexist?

I've noticed over the last 10 or 15 years or so a growing trend that if

one partner's emotional needs weren't being met that it was OK to leave

the relationship without notice. I've also seen a trend where some say

that cheating is also justified in such a case.

 

The standard seems to be very NT, meaning lots of touching, kissing,

talking, partying and of course, sex. Sounds like this book is along

the same lines. Not a lot about simple companionship and like

interests, its all about emotions and base things.

 

 

In a message dated 4/17/2009 5:32:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

renaissanzelady@... writes:

Hi;

 

I think the tone of the book does seem insulting, implying that if the

NT partner's emotional/intimacy needs are not being met, it is the

fault of the Apergers/autistic person

...

I'm going to try and get the book through the library, If I do, then

I'll post a review after I have read it.

 

renaissanzelady

------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

" I think the tone of the book does seem insulting, implying that if the NT

partner's emotional/intimacy needs are not being met, it is the fault of the

Apergers/autistic person.

" I'm going to try and get the book through the library, If I do, then I'll post

a review after I have read it. "

If memory serves, there was a boycott against her website ages ago. I think she

had a forum at one time and would ban any Aspie who disagreed with her view

while riling up anyone else into believing Aspies were borderline criminals

whose brains kept them this side of the law and metnal institutions.

All of it stemmed from her believing her husband caused all the problems she

ever had in her entire life. She was grinding an axe against all Aspies from the

moment she fell out of love of her husband.

I'd write a book from the opposite point of view, but that would be

irresponsible and tactless. Also beneath me.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

When I read on forums that say this sort of thing [that NTs are very put upon

and the autistics in their lives just go on their merry oblivious way getting

what they want in these relationships] it makes me very cranky.

I think about my current marriage and think of all the things that I have and do

endure. I don't want to go into details, but I most certainly don't go merrily

on doing my own thing while my spouse suffers. We may suffer about different

things at each others hands, but we both suffer. It comes across to me when I

read this sort of thing that to many, NT suffering is legitimate, while ours is

not. It is also the message I got growing up, that other peoples pain and

concerns mattered, but not my own.

Excuse my language, but, bullshit!

Just my 2 cents. :-)

[Guest guest]

-- In FAMSecretSociety , Gail Marie wrote:

"When I read on forums that say this sort of thing [that NTs are very put upon and the autistics in their lives just go on their merry oblivious way getting what they want in these relationships] it makes me very cranky.

"I think about my current marriage and think of all the things that I have and do endure. I don't want to go into details, but I most certainly don't go merrily on doing my own thing while my spouse suffers. We may suffer about different things at each others hands, but we both suffer. It comes across to me when I read this sort of thing that to many, NT suffering is legitimate, while ours is not. It is also the message I got growing up, that other peoples pain and concerns mattered, but not my own.

"Excuse my language, but, bullshit!"

Don't think for a minute that I, as an AS person didn't have problems with NT girlfriends. I did. And being the one that was "weird" it was told to me by all of them that it was naturally my responsibility to change and become normal. Nothing can be more offensive than hearing something like that.

My view has always been that both partners need to work hard to make their relationships work be they Aspie or NT or a mix.

Thing is, I tend to observe that many Aspies believe that because it is they who have the disability, then they must be waited on hand and foot, even in relationships. There is a sort of learned helplessness that comes into being sometimes, and I think many Aspies suffer from this, in which case, they need to face the facts: They either change and improve the relationship, or they do nothing and let the relationship implode.

I was watching a TV show about aging, and it was mentioned that older people tend to have balance problems. To compensate for this, they may begin to look down at their feet to make sure they watch where they place them so they do not trip. The next step is to have a cane...and possibly a case of an arthritic spine in the neck area.

The doctor, himself an old man, said none of that is necessary. The elderly should NOT watch where they plant their feet, or they are going to train their brain to not care about balance. In other words, they are going to accelerate their loss of balance.

Instead, they should look in the distance as they walk, just as drivers are taught to look down the road, instead of ten feet in front of the hood.

Aspies need to quit using their personal handicaps as a comnfort zone and dwelling in a mire of learned helplessness.

Regarding relationships, there is another alternative, and that would be to seek out and involve oneself with a compatible person, but it seems most Aspies fail to do this. While it is rightfully so that finding a compatible partner for an Aspie is many times harder than it is for NTs to find NT partners, shouldn't we take right and proper blame for all that comes with "settling for less" instead of whining about having to make concessions to someone we CHOSE as a partner in our passionate impulsivity?

I think one of the problems some of us have that gets us into trouble is trying to get what we want NOW just to have it, and we don't care what the reprucussions might be. Relationships are not objects. They are interactions between two people. Thus another person cannot be possessed and made to act the way we want them to act.

If an Aspie is a relationship, then they MUST make some concessions to the other person just as that person must make concessions to the Aspie.

Now there are some areas where an Aspie cannot compromise. In those circumstances, they need to find a partner who can accept them.

But there are some areas where Aspies CHOOSE not to compromise even though the can, and they hide behind their dx's and use them as a weapon against their partners. In this case, the Aspies either need to find a partner more fitting for them or stay single, or else develop some maturity.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Hi;This is the only Aspie forum I belong to, have been here since fall 2008.(I've not been diagnosed with Aspergers, do possess some of the traits)I have found this forum helpful, - through reading how others with similarities to me have coped and adapted in a world of people that seem so different to us, - dialoguing with kindred spirits, - being able to debate without others

getting ticked off or

calling me querulous,

- being challenged regarding some of my viewpoints (this is a good thing, to rethink why or if I hold

a viewpoint, and to re-evaluate what I do think)

For example both Raven and have recently posted things that have

led me to wonder, do i expect the world to adapt to me, a one sided

view, or am I willing to accpet reality, then work to change some

things; denying reality won't make it go away.- also i am gaining more insight into people with a neurological difference, hopefully this is helping me to be more tolerant.Through

my adult years, I have been fortunate to have a few friends who are my

'people whispers', helping me make sense of human behaviour.Sometimes I feel as if I am a 'Stranger in a

Strange Land'Possibly all humans are fundamentally alone,

but it is nice to find kindred spirits, such as on this forum. Please don't give up even if others don't understand your need to communicate with those similiair to you. Personally I don't think 'immersion' in NT "culture' is going to help us conform, it's not like Fench Immersion schools that exist in Canada.Gail Marie wrote; excerpted;.........That said, I know that I sometimes get accused by DH of using being

autistic as an excuse rather than an explanation of why I may not be

able to do something, or do it well. He even wants me to discontinue

being on Aspie lists and forums as he thinks it is "holding me back"

and may make me "worse", when I am just taking better care of myself.

> .....If I try to explain the difficulties, he says "You need to stay away

from those Asperger places, they are not good for you!" I have always

tried very hard in relationships.renaissanzelady>

>>My view has always been that both partners need to work hard to

make their relationships work be they Aspie or NT or a mix. > > Agreed. :-)> >

>>Thing is, I tend to observe that many Aspies believe that

because it is they who have the disability, then they must be waited on

hand and foot, even in relationships.> > I personally

have not really run into that in the forums and lists I am a part of. I

see more of what I mentioned in my post, that the Aspie is trying very

hard, and the effort is not being appreciated or even recognized. But I

agree that if an Aspie is doing what you describe, it is definitely not

right!> > That said, I know that I sometimes get accused

by DH of using being autistic as an excuse rather than an explanation

of why I may not be able to do something, or do it well. He even wants

me to discontinue being on Aspie lists and forums as he thinks it is

"holding me back" and may make me "worse", when I am just taking better

care of myself.> >

For instance, avoiding going into a social situation when I am already

approaching overload. In the past I would have pushed myself to go,

which would usually result in my taking flight out to the car to await

my husband when the sights and sounds finally push me over the edge. To

me, not going to a social function in that instant would ensure this

embarrassing situation would not occur, yet DH sees it as "regressing".

If he was willing to leave when I reached critical mass, this would

help also. But he is not willing to leave if he is still having a good

time.> > If I try to explain the difficulties, he says

"You need to stay away from those Asperger places, they are not good

for you!" I have always tried very hard in relationships. So I am

definitely approaching this issue from the opposite end of what you

describe.> >

>>Now there are some areas where an Aspie cannot compromise. In

those circumstances, they need to find a partner who can accept them. > >

I have been musing lately at all the limitations I *do* have when it

comes to forming, and keeping, relationships. There are just some bits

that seem to be, well, not there. My pastor was talking today about how

much he struggled in algebra in high school, and was even tutored by

the resident math genius. No matter how hard he tried, he couldn't do

well.> > In his senior year in his final exam in order to

graduate he needed a passing grade. He studied hard, but only got a 63.

When his teacher found out that he had been tutored by the previously

mentioned math genius, he changed his grade to a 65 [passing]. He told

my pastor that if even the math genius could not teach him algebra,

then "He didn't have it in him. It is just not there in his brain to

learn it." and it would be useless to keep taking tests, so he passed

him. > >

I have learned that there are some things that are just not "in me"

either. There are a lot of things that are, but some that are not. If

the bits that are missing are a deal breaker for someone, then we need

to go our separate ways. I have told DH more than once to feel free to

leave me, to not make a martyr out of himself if I am too difficult to

live with. It will not please me and even will cause me distress.> >

Usually when I tell him that after he is venting about how it is "Hell

on earth living with me", he quickly tells me that there are too many

wonderful things about me, so of course he doesn't want to leave. I

then tell him that it would be helpful to tone down the rhetoric. I am

very literal and when he says things like that, I take it at face value

and really believe that it has become unbearable for him to live with

me. It gets confusing to hear how I am the most wonderful person he has

ever known, to being "hell to live with". It does not compute, Will

.> >

When I married my husband I did not know that I was on the spectrum,

though I knew that I was definitely not "normal" and told him this at

the time. If I had to do it over with the knowldege of myself that I

have now, I probably would not have married him. I am not convinced

that I really have the ability to be in this kind of relationship and

do it well enough, even though I want to. I would never want to be the

cause of someone else's misery, even accidently.> > So I

would never want to get married again if this marriage fails. Not just

because of my deficits, but also beause of what being in this type of

relationship does to me. There are times I think I should have remained

as I was as a child, communing with nature and the animals instead of

people. But as it was I became interested and aware of people around me

when I was about 14 and here I am today. > > I am 52.> > Take care,> Gail :-)>

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[Guest guest]

>

snip> 

> I think the tone of the book does seem insulting, implying that if the NT

partner's emotional/intimacy needs are not being met, it is the fault of the

Apergers/autistic person.

> renaissanzelady

>

> > As a psychologist, Dr. Marshack shares poignant true stories †" based on

her own life as well as the lives of her clients.

Mimi adds: I thought this was a giant jab at her ex and a way to prove with a

book she was right and he was wrong. This is a bitter woman with little

compassion blaming everything on another and admitting nothing (I know plenty of

people like this)

The book and the website seems to paint the ASD individual in a relationship as

a paria (sp) sucking the life and emotion from another. Often the ASD person in

a relationship with an NT is the silent sufferer (never is that person going to

write a book)

I would also assume the ASD person may also have a fear of people and conflict

and never speak.

Perhaps the relationship is not the one the NT wanted but why crusify another.

Why not be honest and ask for what you want.

I have been in relationships where the other person was only intrested in their

own desires and not at all in " a partnership relationship " People expect

nirvana--- life is not guaranteed nirvana. There is no money back guarentee,

and life is work

anyway I have been mostly silent as I myself am dealing with stronger anxiety in

being near people and this makes it hard to do any talking, I am pretty

overwhelmed lately with any exchanges. Maybe I am rationalizing but I am saving

myself for my children. (I think I may be getting worse as I don't remember

being this frightened)

It was school vacation week and I had to see more people than I liked

as in any(strangers)

[Guest guest]

" anyway I have been mostly silent as I myself am dealing with stronger anxiety

in being near people and this makes it hard to do any talking, I am pretty

overwhelmed lately with any exchanges. Maybe I am rationalizing but I am saving

myself for my children. (I think I may be getting worse as I don't remember

being this frightened) "

Yes, but I think you are picking up on the vibes that society has been putting

out. There have been a lot of shootings and killings as the economy is getting

worse. People are getting fearful and angry.

I think Aspies are sensitive to the general mood change society is undergoing.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes, but I think you are picking up on the vibes that society has been putting

out. There have been a lot of shootings and killings as the economy is getting

worse. People are getting fearful and angry.

>

> I think Aspies are sensitive to the general mood change society is undergoing.

>

>

> Administrator

>

well I do think that things are darker lately, and desperate, in any event it is

intimidating. Like everything is a power struggle. What if your happy without

power? and so there is no need to struggle