Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 And for that matter how does anyone 'ask nicely' for 'help', help is help! It is used in desperation. I get cross when I hear about things like this, I hope they manage to sort it out. Colleen ------------------------------ >Hi Vicky, > >I think in adult services that would probably be regarded as abuse. It certainly would not go down at all well where ds is - and they're not perfect. There is a lot of emphasis on respect and on helping and listening and being aware of triggers for challenging behaviour - sounds as if that assistant was trying to provoke a fight. > >Patience > > >> >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling. >> Vicky >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I agree, abuse Mx Hi Vicky,I think in adult services that would probably be regarded as abuse. It certainly would not go down at all well where ds is - and they're not perfect. There is a lot of emphasis on respect and on helping and listening and being aware of triggers for challenging behaviour - sounds as if that assistant was trying to provoke a fight.Patience>> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so inc redibly vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling.> Vicky> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yes indeed Colleen, you hit nail on the head there Mx And for that matter how does anyone 'ask nicely' for 'help', help is help! It is used in desperation. I get cross when I hear about things like this, I hope they manage to sort it out. Colleen ------------------------------>Hi Vicky,>>I think in adult services that would probably be regarded as abuse. It certainly would not go down at all well where ds is - and they're not perfect. There is a lot of emphasis on respect and on helping and listening and being aware of triggers for challenging behaviour - sounds as if that assistant was trying to provoke a fight.>>Patience>>>>>> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incrediblyvulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling.>> Vicky>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well, yes, we would hold a celebration party if were to ask for help! What Iv'e noticed though in 's case and others is there seems to be a policy of just holding and not saying anything or even looking at the child in distress. This assistant was looking and speaking to him, sadly not in any helpful way. So this must be their moving and handling policy or challenging behaviour policy, but it doesn't do anything to get to the bottom of rage cycles, what if the child is in severe pain ie burst appendix? What about extreme anxiety? Normal people would have those problems addressed head on and not just held down. I know we can't rush off to the doctor every time one of our kids rages but is it beyond the pale that these schools work on communication when their young people are not raging instead of going to Tesco Cafe for a nice Latte? This young man could at least say help [not that it did him much good] my son can't even do that, makes my blood run cold, really it does. I'm also interested at the moment in staff absences, are teachers a particularly frail section of society, often ill, or is a week off every six weeks just not enough? These schools need everyone present if health and safety is to be adhered to surely? Vicky Re: Re: Another strange thing And for that matter how does anyone 'ask nicely' for 'help', help is help! It is used in desperation. I get cross when I hear about things like this, I hope they manage to sort it out. Colleen ------------------------------ >Hi Vicky, > >I think in adult services that would probably be regarded as abuse. It certainly would not go down at all well where ds is - and they're not perfect. There is a lot of emphasis on respect and on helping and listening and being aware of triggers for challenging behaviour - sounds as if that assistant was trying to provoke a fight. > >Patience > > >> >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling. >> Vicky >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 We had a letter from school recently, which apparently is now policy for Wiltshire. In it, it explained that children who 'might' cause harm to themselves or others may need to be restrained. The letter assessed as a low risk but we were supposed to sign to say it was okay. ' school are really good but nonetheless, hubby saw a tall fifteen year old being 'floored' by teachers a while ago and it really upset him (hubby that is) never mind the young man in distress. So needless to say, we did not sign it or send it back and so far no one has said a thing. Well, yes, we would hold a celebration party if were to ask for help!What Iv'e noticed though in 's case and others is there seems to be a policy of just holding and not saying anything or even looking at the child in distress. This assistant was looking and speaking to him, sadly not in any helpful way. So this must be their moving and handling policy or challenging behaviour policy, but it doesn't do anything to get to the bottom of rage cycles, what if the child is in severe pain ie burst appendix? What about extreme anxiety? Normal people would have those problems addressed head on and not just held down. I know we can't rush off to the doctor every time one of our kids rages but is it beyond the pale that these schools work on communication when their young people are not raging instead of going to Tesco Cafe for a nice Latte? This young man could at least say help [not that it did him much good] my son can't even do that, makes my blood run cold, really it does.I'm also interested at the moment in staff absences, are teachers a particularly frail section of society, often ill, or is a week off every six weeks just not enough? These schools need everyone present if health and safety is to be adhered to surely? Vicky Re: Re: Another strange thing And for that matter how does anyone 'ask nicely' for 'help', help is help! It is used in desperation. I get cross when I hear about things like this, I hope they manage to sort it out. Colleen ------------------------------>Hi Vicky,>>I think in adult services that would probably be regarded as abuse. It certainly would not go down at all well where ds is - and they're not perfect. There is a lot of emphasis on respect and on helping and listening and being aware of triggers for challenging behaviour - sounds as if that assistant was trying to provoke a fight.>>Patience>>>>>> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incrediblyvulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling.>> Vicky>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 This is very disturbing. The best thing would be if the parents knew what was going on, but I suppose it would be next to impossible to find out who they are, even more so actually to speak to them - and even then, they may have been brainwashed into belieiving how the school is behaving is normal. You have so much on your own plate right now. Are you trying to get out of the school? Margaret (swamped ) > > Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling. > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi, There are correct procedures/techniques for restraining people and in adult care staff have to be properly trained - quite often staff are not allowed to restrain at all. Are the staff at the school trained in restraint techniques? If so, by whom? Do they have the certificates to prove it? These are some of the questions I think all parents should think about asking - after all your child could get hurt. Also, and I'm not a legal expert here but just quoting an experience - not saying yes does not have to be taken as meaning no. So if you're against having your child restrained, it might be worth telling the school so. BW Patience > >> > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > it's mind boggling. > >> Vicky > >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think it's not juist a question of using humane restraint methods - it's a question of whether they have done a proper functional analysis of the person including the situation around any problem behaviours and whether they have a properly designed behaviour plan. The avoidance of eye contact etc Vicky mentioned seems to mean they have decided not to reward the behaviour by giving attention. However this could be a completely inapprpopriate response if the reason for the behaviour was not to gain attention but some other reason eg distress? not liking the school? sensory problems? needing the lavatory? pain? needing to perform a certain ritual or have a certain possession to feel secure? etc. etc. I think it pretty likely the school doesn't have the skill to be able to differentiate as you would need to be highly trained and skilled to be able to do this properly. Margaret > > >> > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > it's mind boggling. > > >> Vicky > > >> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi Margaret, I agree. My reply was more to saying that Wiltshire have a restraint policy and the need to respond to that. Patience > > > >> > > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was > > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > > to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it > > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > > it's mind boggling. > > > >> Vicky > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I did think you probably knew more than me about all this anyway - but I posted as there is always someone reading the messages to whom this will be relatively new. I remember one (residential) school I visited 18 months ago where I really thought they were far too quick to " get physical " with the children but at the time I didn't know exactly what was wrong about it all - although I did speak to the school the following week about the use of a padded cell, which I witnessed. Margaret > > > > >> > > > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was > > > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > > > to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it > > > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > > > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > > > it's mind boggling. > > > > >> Vicky > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Absolutely, a blanket letter I would suggest is probably illegal Mx Are the staff at the school trained in restraint techniques? If so, by whom? Do they have the certificates to prove it? These are some of the questions I think all parents should think about asking - after all your child could get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 If I saw someone treating Tom like that I would go absolutely mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think you should say something to the parents of the other child! I would want someone to tell me if my child was being treated/handled like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I home ed Sam because of re way he was handled at the school. A member of staff tells me what still today goes on and it is absolutely horrendous. She makes logs of everything. Absolutely shocking. These schools attract bully's. I would make a complaint to the head and tell the parents. Who knows how he was feeling inside. Wankers Kirsty X > > Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others it's mind boggling. > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 absolutely we have thanked so much for some kind souls that have let us know of things with our son in past , and all can say is that schools are very good at hiding the rotten's I think you should say something to the parents of the other child! I would want someone to tell me if my child was being treated/handled like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have no idea who this boy is, attends a school for children with severe learning difficulties, 99% of the children arrive in County buses, parents rarely meet, I wouldn't know them if I walked past them in the street! I'd also like to add that whenever I have tried to get parents together via newsletters or the now defunct local autistic society I did not raise even a flicker of interest, but then I was trying to raise solidarity among other parents for education relevent to our very severe children, now had I been talking respite then no doubt I would have been inundated. Being kind has nothing to do with it, more likely I would get short shrift for sticking my nose in, they do a marvelous job, utter saints, blah, blah Vicky Re: Re: Another strange thing absolutely we have thanked so much for some kind souls that have let us know of things with our son in past , and all can say is that schools are very good at hiding the rotten's I think you should say something to the parents of the other child! I would want someone to tell me if my child was being treated/handled like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 That's what I was tryiing to say Margaret, you put it so well, they are following the Mantra of ignoring bad behaviour but then they assume all distress is bad behaviour and I doubt very much there is any rewarding of good. I really do wonder if this entire special school set up can ever work for the very severe kids, they don't need a special ed teacher and a bunch of TA's what they need is very experienced therapists imho. Vicky Re: Another strange thing I think it's not juist a question of using humane restraint methods - it's a question of whether they have done a proper functional analysis of the person including the situation around any problem behaviours and whether they have a properly designed behaviour plan. The avoidance of eye contact etc Vicky mentioned seems to mean they have decided not to reward the behaviour by giving attention. However this could be a completely inapprpopriate response if the reason for the behaviour was not to gain attention but some other reason eg distress? not liking the school? sensory problems? needing the lavatory? pain? needing to perform a certain ritual or have a certain possession to feel secure? etc. etc. I think it pretty likely the school doesn't have the skill to be able to differentiate as you would need to be highly trained and skilled to be able to do this properly. Margaret > > >> > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > it's mind boggling. > > >> Vicky > > >> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 My friend's son who is pretty challenging was being frequently restrained in his residential setting, Mum then pointed out that he was probably enjoying the sensation of being restrained/hugged by the attractive young female workers trained in this method as he is like any other teenage boy! The school stopped the method and fairly quickly the behaviours have improved significantly, far from perfect but a lot better than before!!!sometimes I think the management in these settings cannot see the wood for the trees.... Anyhow things are a lot better now for her and her son. Ciao > > > >> > > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to " Ask nicely " and was > > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > > to splurt out " Help " and again she said " Ask nicely " . I don't know how it > > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly > > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > > it's mind boggling. > > > >> Vicky > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 My friends son was the same, the school ring in individual circumstances, Matty was throwing chairs round the classroom so his mum said yes restrain him, he loved it so much he went to school day and said restrain please! He is the typical Temple squeeze machine kid, though that's not how they restrain! Mx My friend's son who is pretty challenging was being frequently restrained in his residential setting, Mum then pointed out that he was probably enjoying the sensation of being restrained/hugged by the attractive young female workers trained in this method as he is like any other teenage boy! The school stopped the method and fairly quickly the behaviours have improved significantly, far from perfect but a lot better than before!!!sometimes I think the management in these settings cannot see the wood for the trees....Anyhow things are a lot better now for her and her son.Ciao > > > >>> > > >> Taking into school today we arrived the same time as another > > > youngster who is probably about 17, think he may be quite new to the school. > > > Anyhow Iv'e seen this lad before in quite a distressed state, today he was > > > distressed again, he had just got off the bus and an assistant was trying to > > > control the situation. She kept trying to get him to "Ask nicely" and was > > > kind of restraining him, he was trying to free himself but quite half > > > heartedly, she didn't seem in any danger of being pushed away but the whole > > > spectacle was really upsetting, anyway when I came out of the school after > > > dropping off they were still there, this time he was very teary but managed > > > to splurt out "Help" and again she said "Ask nicely". I don't know how it > > > all ended as I had to leave and didn't want to be gawping but I keep asking > > > myself isn't there a better way of dealing with our very severe kids who > > > just cannot follow the usual rules. Our kids are so incredibly> > > vulnerable, totally dependent on the kindness and intergrity of others > > > it's mind boggling.> > > >> Vicky> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 My son is like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 WTF does ask nicely mean to a child with severe autism. She sounds like a sadist. my thoughts exactly ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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