Re:shoe musings and other questions

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 10:36:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

stolzfamily@... writes:

<< Hi everyone,

I think we have discussed this before, but I am bringing it up again. How

many kids out there WILL NOT leave their shoes on? >>

Seth always takes his shoes off. I buy high-top sneakers and double knot

them and he unties them, takes them off and starts dangling! LOL He too

craves sensory things with his feet. It's not a problem in school, because

between his aide and all the other adults in the class, he never gets a

chance to take them off. Put him in his car seat and the shoes are off in 2

seconds and out the window! LOL He also wears a weighted vest at school

and at home. We use it 20 minutes BEFORE he needs to focus on something.

The effects do seem to last about an hour, then it's time for some active

play. We use the vest about every two hours. On 20 minutes, off for 2

hours, all day long. We also use the brushing and joint compression

in-between vest times. Your reward system sounds good if is into

rewards!

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 11:37:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

okieleah@... writes:

<< as for the shoes, this is a battle i chose not to fight. her private ot

and

school ot got together and made the conclusion that ashton needs to have her

shoes off...she craves textures, touch, coldness and weird stuff on the

bottom of her feet. the first three months of school the old bitch teacher

used to physically try to wrestle her over the damn shoes....NOT

ANYMORE...her autism teacher and the ots let it go.... >>

You do choose your battles well Leah!

Gail

[Guest guest]

,

Shoes!!! I understand what you are going through. the bus driver

complains, the teacher complains, I just leave them off. No one can figure

how he gets them off. They are always still tied or velcro'd. Sorry I am

no help, I know.

We have not used the weighted vest, only talked about it. I think they are

to be used for only 10 to 20 minutes them taken off for a while. I think

that is what the SI teacher said. but I could be wrong.

& Garry, parents of (10 ds), (9 ds/g-tube), JJ (7

ds/autism/celiac), (6 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (3 ds). All adopted.

[Guest guest]

' " ' MARY,

ashton uses a weighted vest at school and at home...she does much better

with the flannel one that the denim one....she wears it for about ten

minutes right before she goes to the reg ed class and if she starts getting

antsy its an option for her to put back on if she request it...we are

working on a sensory plan where she is learning to be independent and make

her own sensory choices if appropriate...it does increase her attention and

helps the itchy feeling subside.

as for the shoes, this is a battle i chose not to fight. her private ot and

school ot got together and made the conclusion that ashton needs to have her

shoes off...she craves textures, touch, coldness and weird stuff on the

bottom of her feet. the first three months of school the old bitch teacher

used to physically try to wrestle her over the damn shoes....NOT

ANYMORE...her autism teacher and the ots let it go.... so ashton wears socks

and shoes to school. on her shelf is a bin labeled " ashtons shoes " she is

allowed to take her shoes off while in the autism class, but when she goes

to regular ed or outside she knows she has to put her shoes on...this system

is very successful with her. noone has to tell her when to put them on, she

knows by looking at her picture schedule. they have rugs with weird textures

scattered all over the room and she has a garden rug that is her

favorite...its made of that hard green plastic and has a ugly yellow flower

in the middle..that is her favorite and she loves to rub her feet up

against it..... maybe this is not reality, but it works for us...she has

gone from being a pain in my butt to being the light of my day...i look

forward to her getting off the bus and i don't mind when school is cancelled

for the most part.....she is doing so good, yes i want her to wear shoes all

the time, but hell i even like my feet to air out.....why should i expect

any different from her....... sorry for rambling.....

as for the blood pressure med, ashton took clonidine for threeyears, which

is a blood pressure med....it helped but nothing significant...now the

seroquel is a blessing to us......we are still seeing the wow affect after

two months.... good luck in your med search and hang in there.....take

care,leah

>

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Re:shoe musings and other questions

>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:28:02 -0700

>

>Hi everyone,

>I think we have discussed this before, but I am bringing it up again. How

>many kids out there WILL NOT leave their shoes on? Matt never has left

>his shoes on, despite me seeing that there is no redness, no soreness

>caused by them. I got a call from the teacher today, complaining that he

>will not leave his shoes on and asking for suggestions. Here is what I

>can gather is happening in the regular classroom.

>

>Matt is seated in the classroom, and takes his shoes off. This happens at

>his desk, while sitting in a circle for teacher reading time, or really

>just about any time. the teacher tells Matt to put his shoes back on and

>leave them on. He has to be excused from what he is doing (DUH- could he

>maybe want to get out of doing something and has found a way????) to go

>put on his shoes-takes sometimes up to 10 minutes. He has the springy

>shoe laces so he can " tie " them himself. these also make it more

>difficult to keep them on his feet. High tops dont' help either. I have

>thought about all one piece shoes/pants, but have been unable to find

>themLOL. If he takes them off again, which is guaranteed, he goes for 2

>minutes to " time out " at which time he gets the teacher there talking to

>him about how everyone else leaves their shoes on and how he is to leave

>his shoes on. So, 2 minutes of one on one time with the teacher, can we

>say " positive reinforcment? " This goes on, she says, up to 6 times per

>hour! NOt terriblly productive. I think there are some sensory issues

>going on-he gets a great deal of sensory input through his feet. Also,

>the positive reinforcement of attention, plus getting out of whatever is

>going on, are both very rewarding. Is anyone else going through this,

>or has anyone else done this?

>

>I was thinking of visual cues, maybe some positive reinforcement for

>leaving them on, for certain times of the day at first. Then work up to

>all day. SOmething like, for every 10 minutes he keep his shoes on (With

>a visual cue taped to his desk), he gets a sticker. At the end of the

>day, or at the end of the morning and the end of the day at first for two

>chances per day to get the reward, if he has a pre-determined number of

>stickers for leaving his shoes on, he gets something. I dont' know what,

>just something. If he takes them off, no verbal re-inforcement, no time

>out, just someone quickly, quietly, puts them back on, and resets the

>time so that he needs another 10 minutes or what ever time, to earn

>another sticker. At first, we would have to allow him to earn the reward

>with some slip ups, but then, once he gets the idea, the time could be

>lengthened so that if he takes them off, he misses the reward. To me,

>this would be much more powerful, as the rewards are based on actually

>doing the target behavior, rather than " rewarding " by attention and

>delaying work, for the thing we want to change. Does this make sense??

>Any input??

>

>Also, who out there has used weighted vests with any success? Or even

>with out? We have been messign with so many big time meds, and attention

>is still a big problem> We are beginning to see some rhythmic tongue

>moving from the risperdal, so I took him off of it. These meds scare me.

>The next one they want to try is a blood pressure med. He has to have a

>baseline EKG and repeated EKG's every year or so. Seems to me that if we

>can get increased attention from using a weight vest, that would be

>better. He is still on Naltrexone, and I am ok with that one. i see such

>a huge difference in his behavior on and off of that, and a small

>difference on the risperdal, but not enough to mess with tartive

>diskonesia. It did help to get more verbal stuff from him, but at what

>price??? I'm not willing to have him pay that! The OT at schools says we

>have to use the vest for almost a month to really see the results, but

>the teachers keep saying after 20 minutes of it being on him that they

>dont' see any use in continueing it! Any input on this??

>

>Sorryt his was so long. We have had many people going through some really

>tough times, and I just want to say that even though I dont' reply all

>the time, I read everything, and certain everyone on here is in my

>prayers. I understand, totally, the feeling of wanting to look for out of

>home placement, and the horror that those thoughts bring. Prayers and

>hugs to everyone.

> S

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[Guest guest]

At 07:46 PM 1/9/01 -0800, you wrote:

>Shoes!!! I understand what you are going through. the bus driver

>complains, the teacher complains, I just leave them off. No one can figure

>how he gets them off. They are always still tied or velcro'd. Sorry I am

>no help, I know.

You mean....I " m not alone?

I remember last year I'd find his shoes in quadruple knots. Now tell

me....if he can get them off without untying them, why would quadruple

knots help??? They only frustrated me when I had to put the shoe back ON!

Sometimes (more often than not)....I wonder......

j

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/01 11:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jmedlen@... writes:

<<

You mean....I " m not alone?

I remember last year I'd find his shoes in quadruple knots. Now tell

me....if he can get them off without untying them, why would quadruple

knots help??? They only frustrated me when I had to put the shoe back ON!

Sometimes (more often than not)....I wonder...... >>

Maddie NEVER keeps shoes on. Or socks. Socks are for sucking and dangling,

after all. Her cab driver and cab aide asked me to put her in her little

black slip ons because they were untying and tying her sneakers back on every

time she took them off.............which was not a countable thing, since

it's a long car ride in to school...LOL I told them to just leave them off

til they get there, but they couldn't comprehend that, so Maddie wears her

little dressy shoes every day....I pack her sneakers in her school bag for

gym and such.

Donna

[Guest guest]

,

>

Y'all know I babysitt. I would say that most of the kids that I babysitt

don't like having their shoes on. This one in particular he's in 3rd grade

now he's so sensitive that he doesn't like wearing clothing. I have no clue

how any type of kid can stand having their shoes on, etc. when their at

school, etc.

But when I was helping in the autistic classroom last year at an elementry

school, about all the kids liked having their shoes on. So I guess it

depends on how autistic they are, and how sensitive they are.

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[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I think we have discussed this before, but I am bringing it up again. How

many kids out there WILL NOT leave their shoes on? Matt never has left

his shoes on, despite me seeing that there is no redness, no soreness

caused by them. I got a call from the teacher today, complaining that he

will not leave his shoes on and asking for suggestions. Here is what I

can gather is happening in the regular classroom.

Matt is seated in the classroom, and takes his shoes off. This happens at

his desk, while sitting in a circle for teacher reading time, or really

just about any time. the teacher tells Matt to put his shoes back on and

leave them on. He has to be excused from what he is doing (DUH- could he

maybe want to get out of doing something and has found a way????) to go

put on his shoes-takes sometimes up to 10 minutes. He has the springy

shoe laces so he can " tie " them himself. these also make it more

difficult to keep them on his feet. High tops dont' help either. I have

thought about all one piece shoes/pants, but have been unable to find

themLOL. If he takes them off again, which is guaranteed, he goes for 2

minutes to " time out " at which time he gets the teacher there talking to

him about how everyone else leaves their shoes on and how he is to leave

his shoes on. So, 2 minutes of one on one time with the teacher, can we

say " positive reinforcment? " This goes on, she says, up to 6 times per

hour! NOt terriblly productive. I think there are some sensory issues

going on-he gets a great deal of sensory input through his feet. Also,

the positive reinforcement of attention, plus getting out of whatever is

going on, are both very rewarding. Is anyone else going through this,

or has anyone else done this?

I was thinking of visual cues, maybe some positive reinforcement for

leaving them on, for certain times of the day at first. Then work up to

all day. SOmething like, for every 10 minutes he keep his shoes on (With

a visual cue taped to his desk), he gets a sticker. At the end of the

day, or at the end of the morning and the end of the day at first for two

chances per day to get the reward, if he has a pre-determined number of

stickers for leaving his shoes on, he gets something. I dont' know what,

just something. If he takes them off, no verbal re-inforcement, no time

out, just someone quickly, quietly, puts them back on, and resets the

time so that he needs another 10 minutes or what ever time, to earn

another sticker. At first, we would have to allow him to earn the reward

with some slip ups, but then, once he gets the idea, the time could be

lengthened so that if he takes them off, he misses the reward. To me,

this would be much more powerful, as the rewards are based on actually

doing the target behavior, rather than " rewarding " by attention and

delaying work, for the thing we want to change. Does this make sense??

Any input??

Also, who out there has used weighted vests with any success? Or even

with out? We have been messign with so many big time meds, and attention

is still a big problem> We are beginning to see some rhythmic tongue

moving from the risperdal, so I took him off of it. These meds scare me.

The next one they want to try is a blood pressure med. He has to have a

baseline EKG and repeated EKG's every year or so. Seems to me that if we

can get increased attention from using a weight vest, that would be

better. He is still on Naltrexone, and I am ok with that one. i see such

a huge difference in his behavior on and off of that, and a small

difference on the risperdal, but not enough to mess with tartive

diskonesia. It did help to get more verbal stuff from him, but at what

price??? I'm not willing to have him pay that! The OT at schools says we

have to use the vest for almost a month to really see the results, but

the teachers keep saying after 20 minutes of it being on him that they

dont' see any use in continueing it! Any input on this??

Sorryt his was so long. We have had many people going through some really

tough times, and I just want to say that even though I dont' reply all

the time, I read everything, and certain everyone on here is in my

prayers. I understand, totally, the feeling of wanting to look for out of

home placement, and the horror that those thoughts bring. Prayers and

hugs to everyone.

S

________________________________________________________________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.