: Court Decision - Placing Tape Recorder on Disabled Child Going to School Found NOT Legal

[Guest guest]

Sara, Thanks so much for bringing this to the forefront. Police can video in a

public place, so what is different. I am sure you heard the case of kids on a

school bus putting a condom on a kids head. The school district did not do

anything to the kids that put the condom on the disabled kids head. The parent

of the disabled kid got on the bus and wanted to know who put the condom on his

kids head. The media kept showing the video of the parent on the bus demanding

to know who put the condom oh his kids head but the district would not release

the tape of the kids putting the condom on his kids head. Something is wrong

with that picture. The parent was not in the wrong. We have to speak for the

children that cannot speak. Cyndi B

>

> Permission to reprint and disseminate as needed is given by the author,

> attorney Vance reporting on a federal lawsuit.

>

> > > > The attached case finds in a civil matter (the Stefan case) that it is

> > a

> > > > felony for a parent of a disabled, 10-year old child who is non-verbal

> > to

> > > > place a tape recording on her child (see pages 16-17).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > While I do not agree with the decision, everyone needs to know this

> > federal

> > > > court decision regarding state law is contrary to parents being able to

> > > > legally place a tape recorder on their children with disabilities in

> > the

> > > > public school setting. Perhaps it would be different if the parents

> > told

> > > > the school district and all personnel in advance. However, in one of my

> > > > cases, the parents told the school attorney in writing that the child

> > would

> > > > come to school with a tape recording, asking the school attorney to

> > tell

> > > > everyone involved, but an ALJ nevertheless ruled it still was a secret

> > > > recording and was thus not admissible. At least in that case, it should

> > not

> > > > be an alleged felony, because everyone was put on notice through their

> > > > attorney they had no right of privacy, for they had been told in

> > advance the

> > > > child would be taping his day at school.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I do not know if the decision is going to be appealed by counsel in

> > Stefan's

> > > > case, but I hope so, yet this may not result in the decision being

> > > > overturned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I believe we need to set up a committee (maybe the GAO and other state

> > > > organizations could help, since they have the people and counsel on

> > staff)

> > > > to try to get the law regarding recordings changed when it involves

> > disabled

> > > > children (given how it is being interpreted). It is the ONLY way to

> > protect

> > > > disabled children and for parents to really know what goes on during

> > their

> > > > day. Neurotypical children can come home and tell their parents, but

> > many

> > > > children with more significant disabilities cannot accurately relate or

> > > > relate at all what happens to them when they are at school.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We thought for years and years we were facing a brick wall stopping

> > > > seclusion, yet concerted efforts prevailed. Maybe we can change the law

> > in

> > > > this regard.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We could enlist police officers, psychologists, pediatricians,

> > > > psychiatrists, educators, child abuse experts, counselors, social

> > workers,

> > > > parents of children with disabilities, attorneys, advocates, ministers,

> > > > state organizations, national organizations, perhaps hospitals, nurses,

> > > > school nurses, and more to write letters about the absolute need for a

> > law

> > > > allowing parents of children with special needs to have the right to

> > place

> > > > tape recorders on their children during their school day as long as

> > they

> > > > inform district personnel (the principal, teacher, and therapists).

> > This is

> > > > more than fair, and it is very much needed to proactively protect these

> > > > children. We also need lobbyists - I know one lobbyist who is a mom of

> > a

> > > > child with special needs. Perhaps corporations which generously donate

> > to

> > > > elected officials might back the cause. It would be a LARGE

> > undertaking,

> > > > but I'm willing to donate some time. Please feel free to send this

> > email to

> > > > others.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To me, it should be a crime to not allow a parent to tape record her

> > > > disabled child's day, regardless of where that child is. The law should

> > not

> > > > prevent parents from protecting their children, and a school building

> > is a

> > > > PUBLIC setting, not a private setting. No one in a public setting with

> > a

> > > > child (disabled or not) present should have any right to privacy.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > CHRIS E. VANCE, P.C.

> > > >

> > > > Suite 100

> > > >

> > > > 2415 Oak Grove Valley Road, N.E.

> > > >

> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30345

> > > >

> > > > - Tel

> > > >

> > > > - Fax

> > > >

> > > > - Cell

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Sara- different pathways lead to Nirvana.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The shame of this court issue is that a FEDERAL JUDGE ruled on the

inadmisability of the tapes and then CHARGED the parents!! It happened in

GA but federal judges carry over huge regions.

This is BAD LAW IMHO - and according to Vance who is the attorney who

forwarded this to us to spread out there in either land.

We need to be very careful. Notify people that at times your child will

have a recording device. Warn them that they are subject to being aped -

and I am not sure that even that will protect the parent. MEanwhile, kids

are being abused.

>

>

> It was my understanding that in a school which is public property that no

> one had the presumption of privacy. At least this was what we were told when

> we were researching getting the school vidoe survaillance when a child was

> left in the school for 2 hours before anyone realized he was missing. The

> school refused to give the family the video that showed what their child was

> doing during these hours stating " privacy laws " with regard to others who

> might have been in the video. Maybe this varies by state. I know in PA you

> can absoutely not record anyone in anyway if they are not aware of the

> recording. Interesting.....

>

> Holly

>

>

[Guest guest]

Totally agree. I think anyone should be able to tape record in a school or

daycare environment. I never worried about being taped when I worked with kids

because I knew I was not doing anything wrong. So they tape me and see that I

am sweet and happy and postiive with their kids. I know that when dealing with

difficult kids, things can also be taken out of context but still, if I thought

someone was abusing my kids, I would chance the federal charges to protect my

child.

Holly

[Guest guest]

Just using the tape to put pressure on the school should help. these

parents tried to use the tapes to prove in court that their child was being

abused. +And you should have seen the pictures they took of the marks on

this sweet boy!!!

>

>

> Totally agree. I think anyone should be able to tape record in a school or

> daycare environment. I never worried about being taped when I worked with

> kids because I knew I was not doing anything wrong. So they tape me and see

> that I am sweet and happy and postiive with their kids. I know that when

> dealing with difficult kids, things can also be taken out of context but

> still, if I thought someone was abusing my kids, I would chance the federal

> charges to protect my child.

>

>

> Holly

>

>

[Guest guest]

More on this crazy ruling!! * BEWARE!!!! *Understand that is NOT

giving legal advice - only her opinion.

This ruling is insane. I sent a tape recorder to school with my disabled son

and learned a lot about his needs. I guess you could still tape record it

and use it outside of the courts to negotiate.

>

> You might be turned into the police/DA’s office/sheriff’s office for

> committing a felony if you tape.

>

>

>

> I’ve never heard of one parent being charged for this, as I do not believe

> the law supports such, and I do think it would cause an outrage. Many

> attorneys I’ve consulted with on this issue do not find it a crime for a

> parent of a disabled child to consent to the child taping his or her

> conversations in GA and other states where consent by the person being taped

> is not required.

>

>

>

> If a disabled child cannot give consent due to disabilities, then who can –

> his or her parents. So it makes no sense for a parent to be alleged to have

> committed a crime for giving consent for his disabled child to tape his

> rercordings.

>

>

>

> The decision makes no sense to me, but it is there and every parent should

> be aware of it.

>

>

>

> Hopefully when the time is ripe, the decision will be appealed and

> hopefully a favorable decision will be rendered.

>

>

>

> I still believe, however, we truly need to change the law so this issue

> never arises.

>

>

>

> No doubt, schools systems all over the state will vigorously fight a law

> that allows disabled children to tape record their day at school, even when

> notice is given. Why, one must ask.

>

>

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>

>

> *CHRIS E. VANCE, P.C.*

>

> Suite 100

>

> 2415 Oak Grove Valley Road, N.E.

>

> Atlanta, Georgia 30345

>

> - Tel

>

> - Fax

>

> - Cell

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Appalling and OUTRAGEOUS!!! Here is another government attempt to cover-up abuse

given to our children at public schools by public officials. Are you kidding

me?????????????

I see a fast downfall of the mass government education system. Public school

will soon be nonexistent if they keep up crap like this that tends to undermine

accountability of teachers and aides.

Just one more reason that MY children do not attend public schools.

susan

>

> Permission to reprint and disseminate as needed is given by the author,

> attorney Vance reporting on a federal lawsuit.

>

> > > > The attached case finds in a civil matter (the Stefan case) that it is

> > a

> > > > felony for a parent of a disabled, 10-year old child who is non-verbal

> > to

> > > > place a tape recording on her child (see pages 16-17).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > While I do not agree with the decision, everyone needs to know this

> > federal

> > > > court decision regarding state law is contrary to parents being able to

> > > > legally place a tape recorder on their children with disabilities in

> > the

> > > > public school setting. Perhaps it would be different if the parents

> > told

> > > > the school district and all personnel in advance. However, in one of my

> > > > cases, the parents told the school attorney in writing that the child

> > would

> > > > come to school with a tape recording, asking the school attorney to

> > tell

> > > > everyone involved, but an ALJ nevertheless ruled it still was a secret

> > > > recording and was thus not admissible. At least in that case, it should

> > not

> > > > be an alleged felony, because everyone was put on notice through their

> > > > attorney they had no right of privacy, for they had been told in

> > advance the

> > > > child would be taping his day at school.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I do not know if the decision is going to be appealed by counsel in

> > Stefan's

> > > > case, but I hope so, yet this may not result in the decision being

> > > > overturned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I believe we need to set up a committee (maybe the GAO and other state

> > > > organizations could help, since they have the people and counsel on

> > staff)

> > > > to try to get the law regarding recordings changed when it involves

> > disabled

> > > > children (given how it is being interpreted). It is the ONLY way to

> > protect

> > > > disabled children and for parents to really know what goes on during

> > their

> > > > day. Neurotypical children can come home and tell their parents, but

> > many

> > > > children with more significant disabilities cannot accurately relate or

> > > > relate at all what happens to them when they are at school.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We thought for years and years we were facing a brick wall stopping

> > > > seclusion, yet concerted efforts prevailed. Maybe we can change the law

> > in

> > > > this regard.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We could enlist police officers, psychologists, pediatricians,

> > > > psychiatrists, educators, child abuse experts, counselors, social

> > workers,

> > > > parents of children with disabilities, attorneys, advocates, ministers,

> > > > state organizations, national organizations, perhaps hospitals, nurses,

> > > > school nurses, and more to write letters about the absolute need for a

> > law

> > > > allowing parents of children with special needs to have the right to

> > place

> > > > tape recorders on their children during their school day as long as

> > they

> > > > inform district personnel (the principal, teacher, and therapists).

> > This is

> > > > more than fair, and it is very much needed to proactively protect these

> > > > children. We also need lobbyists - I know one lobbyist who is a mom of

> > a

> > > > child with special needs. Perhaps corporations which generously donate

> > to

> > > > elected officials might back the cause. It would be a LARGE

> > undertaking,

> > > > but I'm willing to donate some time. Please feel free to send this

> > email to

> > > > others.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To me, it should be a crime to not allow a parent to tape record her

> > > > disabled child's day, regardless of where that child is. The law should

> > not

> > > > prevent parents from protecting their children, and a school building

> > is a

> > > > PUBLIC setting, not a private setting. No one in a public setting with

> > a

> > > > child (disabled or not) present should have any right to privacy.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > CHRIS E. VANCE, P.C.

> > > >

> > > > Suite 100

> > > >

> > > > 2415 Oak Grove Valley Road, N.E.

> > > >

> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30345

> > > >

> > > > - Tel

> > > >

> > > > - Fax

> > > >

> > > > - Cell

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Sara- different pathways lead to Nirvana.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Where in Georgia did this happen (I live in GA)??? Is this the case where the

boy with autism was physically beaten and made to eat out of trashcans because

he was hungry, laughed at and austracized by the teachers and aides as they

talked of their sexual encounters of the previous nights and the same child who

was told by teachers to shut-up or he would get another " shut-up hit " (hearing a

thump in the background)???

GEORGIA DOES NOT TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS AND THEY ALLOW

TEACHERS AND AIDES TO ABUSE CHILDREN AND DFCS BLAMES THE PARENTS. GEORGIA IS A

DO-NOTHING NETWORK OF FEDERALLY PROTECTED FELONS WHO ABUSE CHILDREN. Strong

words? Yes! But I have LIVED this trauma (my family and I) and I refuse to sit

by and allow ANYONE to get away with abuse of any child, especially a child with

special needs who cannot defend themselves.

MORE THAN ANGERED!

>

> >

> >

> > It was my understanding that in a school which is public property that no

> > one had the presumption of privacy. At least this was what we were told when

> > we were researching getting the school vidoe survaillance when a child was

> > left in the school for 2 hours before anyone realized he was missing. The

> > school refused to give the family the video that showed what their child was

> > doing during these hours stating " privacy laws " with regard to others who

> > might have been in the video. Maybe this varies by state. I know in PA you

> > can absoutely not record anyone in anyway if they are not aware of the

> > recording. Interesting.....

> >

> > Holly

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

NO. If I read correctly, you can be charged with a FELONY(A FELONY!!!)

if you send your child to school with a hidden tape recorder.

WHAT THE H***!! Talk about a massive cover-up! Who is this federal judge? I want

to make sure I dig up dirt on him or her and that if a voted position, they get

voted out IMMEDIATELY.

>

> More on this crazy ruling!! * BEWARE!!!! *Understand that is NOT

> giving legal advice - only her opinion.

> This ruling is insane. I sent a tape recorder to school with my disabled son

> and learned a lot about his needs. I guess you could still tape record it

> and use it outside of the courts to negotiate.

>

>

>

> >

> > You might be turned into the police/DA’s office/sheriff’s office for

> > committing a felony if you tape.

> >

> >

> >

> > I’ve never heard of one parent being charged for this, as I do not believe

> > the law supports such, and I do think it would cause an outrage. Many

> > attorneys I’ve consulted with on this issue do not find it a crime for a

> > parent of a disabled child to consent to the child taping his or her

> > conversations in GA and other states where consent by the person being taped

> > is not required.

> >

> >

> >

> > If a disabled child cannot give consent due to disabilities, then who can

†"

> > his or her parents. So it makes no sense for a parent to be alleged to have

> > committed a crime for giving consent for his disabled child to tape his

> > rercordings.

> >

> >

> >

> > The decision makes no sense to me, but it is there and every parent should

> > be aware of it.

> >

> >

> >

> > Hopefully when the time is ripe, the decision will be appealed and

> > hopefully a favorable decision will be rendered.

> >

> >

> >

> > I still believe, however, we truly need to change the law so this issue

> > never arises.

> >

> >

> >

> > No doubt, schools systems all over the state will vigorously fight a law

> > that allows disabled children to tape record their day at school, even when

> > notice is given. Why, one must ask.

> >

> >

> >

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > *CHRIS E. VANCE, P.C.*

> >

> > Suite 100

> >

> > 2415 Oak Grove Valley Road, N.E.

> >

> > Atlanta, Georgia 30345

> >

> > - Tel

> >

> > - Fax

> >

> > - Cell

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I responded to this court decision on another group. Needless to say, I was

livid about it. It is a felony for a parent to place the recording device on the

child, but get this, it is legal in GA for only party on a telephone call to be

aware of tape recording if one party chooses to record.

> >

> > Permission to reprint and disseminate as needed is given by the author,

> > attorney Vance reporting on a federal lawsuit.

> >

> > > > > The attached case finds in a civil matter (the Stefan case) that it is

> > > a

> > > > > felony for a parent of a disabled, 10-year old child who is non-verbal

> > > to

> > > > > place a tape recording on her child (see pages 16-17).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > While I do not agree with the decision, everyone needs to know this

> > > federal

> > > > > court decision regarding state law is contrary to parents being able

to

> > > > > legally place a tape recorder on their children with disabilities in

> > > the

> > > > > public school setting. Perhaps it would be different if the parents

> > > told

> > > > > the school district and all personnel in advance. However, in one of

my

> > > > > cases, the parents told the school attorney in writing that the child

> > > would

> > > > > come to school with a tape recording, asking the school attorney to

> > > tell

> > > > > everyone involved, but an ALJ nevertheless ruled it still was a secret

> > > > > recording and was thus not admissible. At least in that case, it

should

> > > not

> > > > > be an alleged felony, because everyone was put on notice through their

> > > > > attorney they had no right of privacy, for they had been told in

> > > advance the

> > > > > child would be taping his day at school.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not know if the decision is going to be appealed by counsel in

> > > Stefan's

> > > > > case, but I hope so, yet this may not result in the decision being

> > > > > overturned.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe we need to set up a committee (maybe the GAO and other state

> > > > > organizations could help, since they have the people and counsel on

> > > staff)

> > > > > to try to get the law regarding recordings changed when it involves

> > > disabled

> > > > > children (given how it is being interpreted). It is the ONLY way to

> > > protect

> > > > > disabled children and for parents to really know what goes on during

> > > their

> > > > > day. Neurotypical children can come home and tell their parents, but

> > > many

> > > > > children with more significant disabilities cannot accurately relate

or

> > > > > relate at all what happens to them when they are at school.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > We thought for years and years we were facing a brick wall stopping

> > > > > seclusion, yet concerted efforts prevailed. Maybe we can change the

law

> > > in

> > > > > this regard.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > We could enlist police officers, psychologists, pediatricians,

> > > > > psychiatrists, educators, child abuse experts, counselors, social

> > > workers,

> > > > > parents of children with disabilities, attorneys, advocates,

ministers,

> > > > > state organizations, national organizations, perhaps hospitals,

nurses,

> > > > > school nurses, and more to write letters about the absolute need for a

> > > law

> > > > > allowing parents of children with special needs to have the right to

> > > place

> > > > > tape recorders on their children during their school day as long as

> > > they

> > > > > inform district personnel (the principal, teacher, and therapists).

> > > This is

> > > > > more than fair, and it is very much needed to proactively protect

these

> > > > > children. We also need lobbyists - I know one lobbyist who is a mom of

> > > a

> > > > > child with special needs. Perhaps corporations which generously donate

> > > to

> > > > > elected officials might back the cause. It would be a LARGE

> > > undertaking,

> > > > > but I'm willing to donate some time. Please feel free to send this

> > > email to

> > > > > others.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > To me, it should be a crime to not allow a parent to tape record her

> > > > > disabled child's day, regardless of where that child is. The law

should

> > > not

> > > > > prevent parents from protecting their children, and a school building

> > > is a

> > > > > PUBLIC setting, not a private setting. No one in a public setting with

> > > a

> > > > > child (disabled or not) present should have any right to privacy.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Chris

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > CHRIS E. VANCE, P.C.

> > > > >

> > > > > Suite 100

> > > > >

> > > > > 2415 Oak Grove Valley Road, N.E.

> > > > >

> > > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30345

> > > > >

> > > > > - Tel

> > > > >

> > > > > - Fax

> > > > >

> > > > > - Cell

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Sara- different pathways lead to Nirvana.

> >

> >

> >