Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 We did teach Elie baby sign first because I hadn't heard of PECS> So by age 3 when he had few words beyond Mom and DAD and bunny, he could 'say' I want food, I want drink. LAter he learned his favorite sign which he has used on occasion even now - Mom is crazy'. BUT long term - PECS was much more useful. As you said - many people do not know sign and approximated signs (which is all Elie could learn) as my deaf friend told me is like me speaking with mashed potatoes in my mouth! Pecs for us were and are used for planning a day - This is what we are doing.... For helping get ready in the morning - series of pix in the bathroom for toileting, washing hands and face, brushing teeth, getting dressed. In his room, order of clothes to get dressed. On his dresser for where clothes were , on the fridge for foods he wanted, lined up on the wall near his toys so he could ask for a toy (we kept them put away so he HAD to ask for a toy), even PECS for which book he wanted read to him. We had PECS on the table so he would know how wto set his place at the table .. And then as he got older, we had social stories - in PECS and words. I found that PECS were much more useful. No, we did not and do not carry them around with us, becasue now Elie talks. But when he was younger, I kept what I thought were necessary ones on an endless ring attached to the stroller and then the w/c for outings - things like bathroom, foods, . Thought you were coming back to the states???? Sara, Mom to Elie, age 25 ds/asd, and 5 others wothout visible labels. Plus 4 grands! > > > Hi all! > > I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy > over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be > four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly > qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France > right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for > two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for > " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was > just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) > before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has > forgotten how to do that, too! > > I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to > implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just > using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if > he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty > training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a > picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 > minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. > > My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be > more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. > So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages > for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you > everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the > picture speaks for itself. > > I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have > others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? > > Many thanks, > Kathy > > > -- Sara- different pathways lead to Nirvana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Hi Kathy, In my experience, every parent will give you a different opinion! The handy thing with signing is you don't have to carry anything with you. The trouble with signing is it can be difficult for a child to do and only people who know signs can communicate with your child. The handy thing with PECS is you have clear cut pictures that are mostly universal so your child can communicate with anyone once they're learned how. The trouble with PECS is it's often very bulky to carry...and if you don't know how to implement, you're stuck. BUT, there are now iPhone Apps which make this much easier (Grace App is JUST pecs for iPhone, no frills which is nice) and much less bulky. It SOUNDS like your child responds better to PECS, so maybe if you can afford to go to a PECS 2 day training, that'd be ideal. I went to mine in Glasgow and the PECS website www.pecs.org.uk lists upcoming workshops. You could also contact the UK PECS group to see if there are any trainers/trainings in France. It helps if you, the parent, know the PECS program, so that you can keep it going while your SLT is away. And if you can get your child on to Stage 2, you don't NEED a second person to help you do PECS anymore. Best, Jen (SLP now in Dublin) > > > Hi all! > > I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy > over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be > four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly > qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France > right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for > two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for > " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was > just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) > before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has > forgotten how to do that, too! > > I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to > implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just > using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if > he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty > training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a > picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 > minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. > > My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be > more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. > So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages > for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you > everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the > picture speaks for itself. > > I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have > others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? > > Many thanks, > Kathy > > > -- Grundulis www.fatpregnant.blogspot.com " I've always wanted to have a life someone would want to live vicariously through. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 > > Hi Again, Just looking and found the French PECS Website: >> > http://www.pecs-france.fr/ I use google and so it translated it for me, which is great, so I can read what it says. But there are trainings in France going on. I don't know if you speak French, but if you do, this would be ideal for you... and usually the cost of the 2 day workshop is cheaper for parents than therapists. Happy days! Best, Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Hi Kathy, IMHO, there should be no controversy:) " over what method of communication is best to teach " .... As stated in her post-you will get different responses from diff parents. I want to add that the same will happen with therapists and/or teachers. My personal preference was to use a total communication approach with DJ (DS/asd unknown/hearing & speach impaired) Beginning around 27 months, I started teaching him ASL (American Sign Language-I was trained in this & SEE). I also took polaroid photos of every toy & objects used in ADL, labeled & paired with object/activity. One set was also put into a photo album. A bit later on, pre-school therapist from area school for the deaf did home therapy & introduced pecs. Private speech therapy focused on articulation. When DJ entered public school, all of this was carried over as well as introduction to augmentative communication devices. All of these techniques-whether sophisticated or low tech (my photos)- provided DJ will opportunities to communicate, increase his vocabulary AND motor/cognition/receptive-expressive language skills. I believe it helped him learn to read as well. Today DJ uses a combo of speech, sign, written word, gesture & ACD. (Rarely uses sign though unless all else fails) Interestingly, my spouse today asked the ST & the ACD tech their opinion of teaching DJ further signs & promoting this as means to communicate more effectively. Here is synopsis of their educated response: " There is alot of motor planning involved with learning sign language " Then there is the cognitive connection that is required to think of the word & then relay it to motor planning " " Unfortunately, the general population on this planet does not know sign language, so those using sign are virtually locked into a small niche population that has the ability to understand them " All of these things I personally feel but hubby did not " get it " until today. Sign language had it's place in my son's life for years, but he is now 15 & needs a better way to communicate with the world at large. For us, this will be in the form of a device that has multiple functions. Which, in my personal opinion, DJ would not be able to functionally use IF he HAD NOT been exposed to the total communication approach for the past 13 years. Just so you know, you will not " mess anything up " if you try different approaches or not religiously follow the PECS system to a T. The key is being patient and consistent-and finding what is do-able for you & your child. " Baby " signs or approximations are ok-not everyone with special needs has the dexterity needed. Just make sure you always model the sign correctly as you say the word. (Dexterity will come with practise & over time-honest!) I understand how you feel-I've been there! It just takes time for everything to click & when it does, the child will astonish. Hope this has helped some & given you some ideas on how to surround your child with language. Hugs, Kris PS: I forgot to add that I also supplied DJ with videos & children's books on sign to help reinforce. There came a time in elementry school that I had to actually look up signs in my manuals that he was using-lol.... " > > Hi all! > > I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has forgotten how to do that, too! > > I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. > > My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the picture speaks for itself. > > I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? > > Many thanks, > Kathy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Parlez vous francais? Je parle francais un peu. Which sign language are you using? There is a huge difference between ASL, SEE, BSL, and French Signed language. We use SEE (Signed Exact English), which is like ASL in english order with all the modifiers. PECS are good for schedules (first, then type things) and for educational learning. We have used sign language along with verbage (hence why the sign language has to be in order so what you say matches the sign you use) for 7 years. Now, we are starting PECS for educational purposes and to give my son a sense of *schedules* and *routines*. There are many free links I posted over in the files section (or was it the links section?) to the left of this message. Look for my email address and you will see the links for FREE PECS. Ca va? > > Hi all! > > I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has forgotten how to do that, too! > > I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. > > My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the picture speaks for itself. > > I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? > > Many thanks, > Kathy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Kathy, We used both PECS and sign for most of Jake's life. When he regresses, we go back to the basics. I always thought he would not really be able to do signs because of his nubby fingers but he is now 11 and can even make the I love you sign with his hand. They start with an approximation and then as he gets older and more agile, the signs come around. Someone using ASL may not be able to know exactly what he is signing, but anyone in his daily life knows and when you know the sign you can hear his approximation in speech. I truly think all of it worked together. The PECS, the Sign, and the oral words. As for the PECS system. I found that instead of trying to have a book that he carries with him or a " communication center " somewhere in the house, it worked best for us if the PECS he needed were where the object or activity took place. For example: On our refrigerator we had a sign that said " I want ...........to drink. I want.........to eat. " We then had the PECS for Milk and Juice since that was the only thing he drank at the time. They were right on the refrigerator. On our pantry we had a small bulletin board that all the PECS for all the things he could or did eat. Our refrigerator and pantry were locked or he would get everything out of it. He had to use the pecs if he wanted to eat or drink. At the table, we only had the PECS we needed for the dinner we were eating. " More, hotdogs, chicken, etc " Only the PECS he would need and not too many. Just enough to have him be successful. I found that after he initially used the PECS a bunch, he decreased the use once he was understood and could sign or say part of the word. Now, let's also know that this did not happen over night. It took years. He had ups and down. There were times we did not think he was getting it. Times we thought he just couldn't physically do it. But, then one day he would surprise us. I say listen to the speech and OT and take their suggestions to heart. Then make the system work for you in your environment. Oh, I made a manila folder with " I want to EAT_______ and I want to drink_______________ " I had the few pecs for our dining out drive through items and a PEC for the places we ate. Chick Fil A, 's and at one time Mcs. I left it in my visor so when I needed it there it was. Honestly, my best communication moment with Jake was when I first used it at Mcdonalds. I said " we are at Mcdonald's (showed him the PEC) do you want chicken nuggets (showed PEC) or hamburger (showed him PEC). Do you know he picked hamburger and never again ordered chicken nuggets. I always got him chicken nuggets. When he had a choice, he picked. It was great. Holly PECS vs. signs Hi all! I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has forgotten how to do that, too! I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the picture speaks for itself. I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? Many thanks, Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Holly these are all such great (and do-able) tips you've given!! I had forgotten that we used similar to you on the fridge & other activity areas at home. Ours was a simple set of velcro strips that eventually grew to accomondate whole sentences on the fridge with other strips around the house. Actually, now that you've triggered my memory bank, we never used one formal communication center at home but like you, just at key places in the house. The only " chart " I had up was the potty chart that I made with pecs for going potty & with both happy & sad smiley faces. (DJ earned a reward or money based on the number of happy faces at weeks end-and yes, I bribed my child into being potty trained...) I really like your innovative tip about keeping some pecs in the car! I wish there was a way to compile all these great tips everyone contributes by category & add to the files. What a godsend for others! Oh,I just remembered that all his countless little " pecs notebooks " are out in the garage somewhere to be boxed. Ahem, been waiting out there now for 4 plus years for me to " put away " .... The faint marks of velcro tracks are still here & there around the house. Echoes. Like this post thread. And a needed reminder of how very very far DJ has come. Hugs, Kris > > Kathy, > We used both PECS and sign for most of Jake's life. When he regresses, we go back to the basics. I always thought he would not really be able to do signs because of his nubby fingers but he is now 11 and can even make the I love you sign with his hand. They start with an approximation and then as he gets older and more agile, the signs come around. Someone using ASL may not be able to know exactly what he is signing, but anyone in his daily life knows and when you know the sign you can hear his approximation in speech. I truly think all of it worked together. The PECS, the Sign, and the oral words. > > As for the PECS system. I found that instead of trying to have a book that he carries with him or a " communication center " somewhere in the house, it worked best for us if the PECS he needed were where the object or activity took place. For example: > On our refrigerator we had a sign that said " I want ...........to drink. I want.........to eat. " We then had the PECS for Milk and Juice since that was the only thing he drank at the time. They were right on the refrigerator. On our pantry we had a small bulletin board that all the PECS for all the things he could or did eat. Our refrigerator and pantry were locked or he would get everything out of it. He had to use the pecs if he wanted to eat or drink. At the table, we only had the PECS we needed for the dinner we were eating. " More, hotdogs, chicken, etc " Only the PECS he would need and not too many. Just enough to have him be successful. > > I found that after he initially used the PECS a bunch, he decreased the use once he was understood and could sign or say part of the word. > > Now, let's also know that this did not happen over night. It took years. He had ups and down. There were times we did not think he was getting it. Times we thought he just couldn't physically do it. But, then one day he would surprise us. > > I say listen to the speech and OT and take their suggestions to heart. Then make the system work for you in your environment. > > Oh, I made a manila folder with " I want to EAT_______ and I want to drink_______________ " I had the few pecs for our dining out drive through items and a PEC for the places we ate. Chick Fil A, 's and at one time Mcs. I left it in my visor so when I needed it there it was. Honestly, my best communication moment with Jake was when I first used it at Mcdonalds. I said " we are at Mcdonald's (showed him the PEC) do you want chicken nuggets (showed PEC) or hamburger (showed him PEC). Do you know he picked hamburger and never again ordered chicken nuggets. I always got him chicken nuggets. When he had a choice, he picked. It was great. > > Holly > PECS vs. signs > > > > Hi all! > > I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has forgotten how to do that, too! > > I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. > > My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the picture speaks for itself. > > I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? > > Many thanks, > Kathy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Kathy, I agree with Holly. We use them all as they can reinforce each other, but for Darwyn PECs is now a better long term goal to focus on. He knows a lot of signs, but he does them in his own almost incomprehensible way so sometimes I can't even figure it out. All the kids in his kindergarten class learned very basic signs - his teacher knew quite a few signs and I took in the Signing Times books and Darwyn would read them every day (often with another child and he had an aide to help), so socially the signing was something these kids thought was fun , but then we started PECs (exactly a year ago at age 5) and we had someone who was trained work with him. When Darwyn was almost 4 we had tried PEcs and failed as we focused on what motivated ME (toilet and toothbrushing and putting on shoes pictures). Darwyn ignored them or threw them on the ground. At age 5, our interventionist started with chocolate ice cream and trampoline PECs and he got it so quickly. So start with PECs that are motivating for your child (which is just not the toilet unfortunately) and when he gets the whole idea of PECs then work towards what motivates you. Best of luck, Re: PECS vs. signs Kathy, We used both PECS and sign for most of Jake's life. When he regresses, we go back to the basics. I always thought he would not really be able to do signs because of his nubby fingers but he is now 11 and can even make the I love you sign with his hand. They start with an approximation and then as he gets older and more agile, the signs come around. Someone using ASL may not be able to know exactly what he is signing, but anyone in his daily life knows and when you know the sign you can hear his approximation in speech. I truly think all of it worked together. The PECS, the Sign, and the oral words. As for the PECS system. I found that instead of trying to have a book that he carries with him or a " communication center " somewhere in the house, it worked best for us if the PECS he needed were where the object or activity took place. For example: On our refrigerator we had a sign that said " I want ...........to drink. I want.........to eat. " We then had the PECS for Milk and Juice since that was the only thing he drank at the time. They were right on the refrigerator. On our pantry we had a small bulletin board that all the PECS for all the things he could or did eat. Our refrigerator and pantry were locked or he would get everything out of it. He had to use the pecs if he wanted to eat or drink. At the table, we only had the PECS we needed for the dinner we were eating. " More, hotdogs, chicken, etc " Only the PECS he would need and not too many. Just enough to have him be successful. I found that after he initially used the PECS a bunch, he decreased the use once he was understood and could sign or say part of the word. Now, let's also know that this did not happen over night. It took years. He had ups and down. There were times we did not think he was getting it. Times we thought he just couldn't physically do it. But, then one day he would surprise us. I say listen to the speech and OT and take their suggestions to heart. Then make the system work for you in your environment. Oh, I made a manila folder with " I want to EAT_______ and I want to drink_______________ " I had the few pecs for our dining out drive through items and a PEC for the places we ate. Chick Fil A, 's and at one time Mcs. I left it in my visor so when I needed it there it was. Honestly, my best communication moment with Jake was when I first used it at Mcdonalds. I said " we are at Mcdonald's (showed him the PEC) do you want chicken nuggets (showed PEC) or hamburger (showed him PEC). Do you know he picked hamburger and never again ordered chicken nuggets. I always got him chicken nuggets. When he had a choice, he picked. It was great. Holly PECS vs. signs Hi all! I think I am getting sucked into what is perhaps an age-old controversy over what method of communication is best to teach (our son, who will be four next month, who has DS/ASD). We were fortunate to find a highly qualified ABA instructor out here who speaks some English (we live in France right now) however, she has been trying to teach signs. Even for two highly motivating things, it has been slow. He can do the sign for " chips " (dehydrated carrot chips) but can't do the sign for " music " . He was just getting the hang of the Picture Exchange Communication program (PECS) before his speech therapist went on vacation for 7 weeks, now he has forgotten how to do that, too! I was frustrated with the PECS program because I wasn't sure how to implement it here at home without a second person to help me - was just using the pictures so show him what we're doing yet and sometimes, to see if he'd point to what he'd want if I wasn't sure. Now, however, we're potty training him (yay!) so it'd be REALLY handy if he could come up to me with a picture of the potty when he needs to go. Right now we take him every 30 minutes just to cover our (and his) butts. My hunch is that manipulating his fingers and remembering signs will be more difficult for him than picking up a picture and handing it to someone. So, right now, I'm leaning in favor of PECS vs. the signs. I see advantages for signs too, however, in that you don't have to lug the pictures with you everywhere. On the other hand, not everyone would understand a sign but the picture speaks for itself. I'm still hoping he'll actually speak someday, but until then - what have others found works best for your son/daughter with DS/ASD? Many thanks, Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Great info . Just wanted to add that our CBA who runs 's VB program says that AAC is really just a picture communication system on steroids. I like that. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I disagree that Signed English is difficult to learn. As with any language system, even spoken english, if you do not know a word then you have to look it up. Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with autism are, then sign language is easy. I looked into cued speech, but found it complicated and difficult because it is very limted. They make a device (handheld) to look up signs in a jiffy. Krown makes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable to coordinate her fine motor movements. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Sherry I agree that sign is not easy to learn. I took " formal " classess for several years. In my last class, no one was allowed to speak-only use sign-or they had to instantly leave the class. Everything from presentation to tests was in sign. The instructor could sign so fast that her hands were a blur. 50% of the class dropped out. I used to have nightmares that I was surrounded by people that signed & I could not keep up... That being said, it is somewhat easier with constant use. With kiddos-especially those with multiple disabilities-it takes alot of time, hand over hand/modeling & not having the expectation of perfection or instantly " getting it " . And frankly, it is not for everyone-including NT beings. Finding what fits the child is best in my opinion. Kris > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable to coordinate her fine motor movements. > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Since the goal is communication, what works sfor some doesn't work for ALL. So we all try different things. One thing I learned was that Elie wanted to speak, was able to speak but poor motor control in his mouth and tongue made it way too hard. So we starteed (with the advice of a wise SLP) mouth exercises with no pressure to speak. Lots of rubbing with various textures and funny faces in mirroras and tongue stretching - Elie has the LONGEST TONGUE - we used to call him snake tongue to get him to laugh (another good muscle exercise. Then we learned to cue him to speak (not cued speech) by putting one finger under our lip (like you wnated to say quiet but UNDER the lip) so that he would look at our face (mouth) and we would tell him - Look at my mouth so that he culd mimmic the shapae of the word he needed/wanted (or I wanted him to say). We still do that part to get him to pronounce words correctly. We do not let him approximate peoples names for example - he practices until he says it the way they do. We work on clarity - even sacrificing longer sentances to get the few words very clear. And he still speaks sino-chinese sometimes when he gets on a roll - complete with inflection and arm gestures we get a full blast lecture of which we understand NOTHING!!!! Sara mom to Elie, age 25yo - home for this long w/e and we go to the dentist and then to I-Hop - what more could we want. > > > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most > with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't > make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for > my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable > to coordinate her fine motor movements. > Sherry > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Signing is dependant on fine motor skills. Many of our kids could never speak with sign . My kid can't turn a door knob yet or hold a pen. years and years of fine-motor work and not one bit of improvement.  Kezia can't point with her index finger nor isolate her fingers and she  still points with thumb down and palm open. She hasn't mastered a pincer grasp at the age of thirteen. She can't do action songs like eensy spider even though they are high interest.     your device sounds very handy. thanks. I will explore.  I found learning conversational sign hopelessly difficult.  Sadly, I can't co ordinate my body, hands and face.    Nor can i decipher it when i see it spoken.    Such a beautiful expressive language/culture.      On the bright side,  Kezia and I can both sign " LOOSER " on our foreheads.    jay, mom to Kezia 12 ________________________________ To: Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 11:28:46 PM Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs  I disagree that Signed English is difficult to learn. As with any language system, even spoken english, if you do not know a word then you have to look it up. Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with autism are, then sign language is easy. I looked into cued speech, but found it complicated and difficult because it is very limted. They make a device (handheld) to look up signs in a jiffy. Krown makes it. is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Regarding signing--- I taught Aubrey (12, PDDNOS, Down syndrome trisomy 21, and mildly hearing impaired-Aubrey wears hearing aids) simple " Baby Signs " just like I did her older NT sister from about 5 months as that was popular at the time... With  Aubrey, because of her initial extreme hypotonia, the fine motor issues made signing so very much harder for her. She has always had her own ideas about what a certain sign should look like-but that's fine with me. I, still to this day, play " sign charades " a few times every day with her as her signs are often not produced anyway like they should look. There are many times that she must lead us to what she wants-the key has been teaching her to be patient until she can get her needs across. The most potent two signs we use these days are " please " " wait! " As a voice teacher who has spent countless hours with Aubrey for years in front of the mirror and elsewhere working on her artic, it was extremely difficult to accept that Aubrey was going to have to rely on sign primarily because her speech has little discernability. Again though, the high frequency words like " hi " , " bye " , " mommy " , etc are quite clear but without signing I would not know what Aubrey's needs are. Though the DOE has essentially given up on her artic, I haven't and had to fight hard to keep artic therapy. She still has speech artic with SLP 3X20min/week...Sign has empowered her over the past few years-as she did not have the small fine motor to work a stylus on an AAC device. As fine motor has gotten better at 12, she is now using her AAC device for people that do not understand her sign. Regarding learning sign language, we took them as a family for a couple of years. I was really intimidated in the beginning. We, too encountered difficulty with deaf ASL sign instructors who got upset when we would sign/say in our classes, but we advocated through our school that this was essential for our family. of " Signing Time " has been a blessing to our home with her videos (she is a personal friend now) as we have all loved and learned from them over the years, and for a time she had a weekly program on our local PBS affiliate that Aubrey's family and friends watched, too...and " isign " on our itouch has been a lifesaver for us in a pinch... If signing is an option for your child, what you must remember, is that you can learn new signs faster than your child will, so take your time learning them. At one time, I committed to learning just one new sign a day. Now I cannot believe the extent of my vocabulary after 6 years...My chorus students are taught to sign, too in our classes and we sign at least one song in our performances now and we all enjoy creating the visuals...I would never have imagined being able to do that seven years ago! These days we learn a lot of signs from Aubrey as she is immersed in a total communication program where she is signed/spoken to in all of her classes; and has interpreters in all mainstream setting she attends. Sometimes her 1:1 will call me and we'll work together to figure out what she's signing...it can be frustrating sometimes, but with the right attitude-really fun! Communication is the most essential skill we can teach our children. I cannot imagine having so many thoughts in my head and never being able to share them. Somehow, we have to give our kids the ability to set their thoughts free and to let them know that we value what they have to " say! " We just have to find the best way! IMUA! (Go forward!) Desi I thank God every day that we were led to total communication for Aubrey. ________________________________ To: Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 3:18:56 AM Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs  Sherry I agree that sign is not easy to learn. I took " formal " classess for several years. In my last class, no one was allowed to speak-only use sign-or they had to instantly leave the class. Everything from presentation to tests was in sign. The instructor could sign so fast that her hands were a blur. 50% of the class dropped out. I used to have nightmares that I was surrounded by people that signed & I could not keep up... That being said, it is somewhat easier with constant use. With kiddos-especially those with multiple disabilities-it takes alot of time, hand over hand/modeling & not having the expectation of perfection or instantly " getting it " . And frankly, it is not for everyone-including NT beings. Finding what fits the child is best in my opinion. Kris > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most >with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't make it >easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for my child >who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable to coordinate >her fine motor movements. > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Desi, you know ??? And Leah, too???!!! still loves Signing Time. Totally! Sent from my iPhone Regarding signing--- I taught Aubrey (12, PDDNOS, Down syndrome trisomy 21, and mildly hearing impaired-Aubrey wears hearing aids) simple " Baby Signs " just like I did her older NT sister from about 5 months as that was popular at the time... With Aubrey, because of her initial extreme hypotonia, the fine motor issues made signing so very much harder for her. She has always had her own ideas about what a certain sign should look like-but that's fine with me. I, still to this day, play " sign charades " a few times every day with her as her signs are often not produced anyway like they should look. There are many times that she must lead us to what she wants-the key has been teaching her to be patient until she can get her needs across. The most potent two signs we use these days are " please " " wait! " As a voice teacher who has spent countless hours with Aubrey for years in front of the mirror and elsewhere working on her artic, it was extremely difficult to accept that Aubrey was going to have to rely on sign primarily because her speech has little discernability. Again though, the high frequency words like " hi " , " bye " , " mommy " , etc are quite clear but without signing I would not know what Aubrey's needs are. Though the DOE has essentially given up on her artic, I haven't and had to fight hard to keep artic therapy. She still has speech artic with SLP 3X20min/week...Sign has empowered her over the past few years-as she did not have the small fine motor to work a stylus on an AAC device. As fine motor has gotten better at 12, she is now using her AAC device for people that do not understand her sign. Regarding learning sign language, we took them as a family for a couple of years. I was really intimidated in the beginning. We, too encountered difficulty with deaf ASL sign instructors who got upset when we would sign/say in our classes, but we advocated through our school that this was essential for our family. of " Signing Time " has been a blessing to our home with her videos (she is a personal friend now) as we have all loved and learned from them over the years, and for a time she had a weekly program on our local PBS affiliate that Aubrey's family and friends watched, too...and " isign " on our itouch has been a lifesaver for us in a pinch... If signing is an option for your child, what you must remember, is that you can learn new signs faster than your child will, so take your time learning them. At one time, I committed to learning just one new sign a day. Now I cannot believe the extent of my vocabulary after 6 years...My chorus students are taught to sign, too in our classes and we sign at least one song in our performances now and we all enjoy creating the visuals...I would never have imagined being able to do that seven years ago! These days we learn a lot of signs from Aubrey as she is immersed in a total communication program where she is signed/spoken to in all of her classes; and has interpreters in all mainstream setting she attends. Sometimes her 1:1 will call me and we'll work together to figure out what she's signing...it can be frustrating sometimes, but with the right attitude-really fun! Communication is the most essential skill we can teach our children. I cannot imagine having so many thoughts in my head and never being able to share them. Somehow, we have to give our kids the ability to set their thoughts free and to let them know that we value what they have to " say! " We just have to find the best way! IMUA! (Go forward!) Desi I thank God every day that we were led to total communication for Aubrey. ________________________________ To: Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 3:18:56 AM Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs Sherry I agree that sign is not easy to learn. I took " formal " classess for several years. In my last class, no one was allowed to speak-only use sign-or they had to instantly leave the class. Everything from presentation to tests was in sign. The instructor could sign so fast that her hands were a blur. 50% of the class dropped out. I used to have nightmares that I was surrounded by people that signed & I could not keep up... That being said, it is somewhat easier with constant use. With kiddos-especially those with multiple disabilities-it takes alot of time, hand over hand/modeling & not having the expectation of perfection or instantly " getting it " . And frankly, it is not for everyone-including NT beings. Finding what fits the child is best in my opinion. Kris > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most >with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't make it >easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for my child >who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable to coordinate >her fine motor movements. > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 There's an IHOP not far from me...I think of Elie now when I drive by. loves Cakesters, ketchup, and Dunkin' Donuts munchkins. I got the kids munchkins yesterday and he climbed onto the counter to get them...once. I reminded him that big boys don't do that...he stopped. He can eat munchkins nonstop, though! Sent from my iPhone Since the goal is communication, what works sfor some doesn't work for ALL. So we all try different things. One thing I learned was that Elie wanted to speak, was able to speak but poor motor control in his mouth and tongue made it way too hard. So we starteed (with the advice of a wise SLP) mouth exercises with no pressure to speak. Lots of rubbing with various textures and funny faces in mirroras and tongue stretching - Elie has the LONGEST TONGUE - we used to call him snake tongue to get him to laugh (another good muscle exercise. Then we learned to cue him to speak (not cued speech) by putting one finger under our lip (like you wnated to say quiet but UNDER the lip) so that he would look at our face (mouth) and we would tell him - Look at my mouth so that he culd mimmic the shapae of the word he needed/wanted (or I wanted him to say). We still do that part to get him to pronounce words correctly. We do not let him approximate peoples names for example - he practices until he says it the way they do. We work on clarity - even sacrificing longer sentances to get the few words very clear. And he still speaks sino-chinese sometimes when he gets on a roll - complete with inflection and arm gestures we get a full blast lecture of which we understand NOTHING!!!! Sara mom to Elie, age 25yo - home for this long w/e and we go to the dentist and then to I-Hop - what more could we want. > > > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most > with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't > make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult for > my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and unable > to coordinate her fine motor movements. > Sherry > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Elie isn't into cake or cookie much. But he goes to IHOP because they formerly sang happy birthday when ever he came. New franchisee forbids the song now. But he still wants to go - for H'Bgrs and FF. > > > There's an IHOP not far from me...I think of Elie now when I drive by. > > loves Cakesters, ketchup, and Dunkin' Donuts munchkins. I got the > kids munchkins yesterday and he climbed onto the counter to get them...once. > I reminded him that big boys don't do that...he stopped. He can eat > munchkins nonstop, though! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 2, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Sara Cohen <pastmidvale@...<pastmidvale%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > Since the goal is communication, what works sfor some doesn't work for ALL. > So we all try different things. One thing I learned was that Elie wanted to > speak, was able to speak but poor motor control in his mouth and tongue > made > it way too hard. So we starteed (with the advice of a wise SLP) mouth > exercises with no pressure to speak. Lots of rubbing with various textures > and funny faces in mirroras and tongue stretching - Elie has the LONGEST > TONGUE - we used to call him snake tongue to get him to laugh (another good > muscle exercise. > > Then we learned to cue him to speak (not cued speech) by putting one finger > under our lip (like you wnated to say quiet but UNDER the lip) so that he > would look at our face (mouth) and we would tell him - Look at my mouth so > that he culd mimmic the shapae of the word he needed/wanted (or I wanted > him > to say). We still do that part to get him to pronounce words correctly. We > do not let him approximate peoples names for example - he practices until > he > says it the way they do. We work on clarity - even sacrificing longer > sentances to get the few words very clear. > > And he still speaks sino-chinese sometimes when he gets on a roll - > complete > with inflection and arm gestures we get a full blast lecture of which we > understand NOTHING!!!! > > Sara mom to Elie, age 25yo - home for this long w/e and we go to the > dentist > and then to I-Hop - what more could we want. > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:40 PM, gldcst <gldcst@...<gldcst%40comcast.net>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which > most > > with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't > > make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult > for > > my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and > unable > > to coordinate her fine motor movements. > > Sherry > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Too bad Sara, ASCAP most likely tried to collect risiduals for singing the song. It's the reason most chains have their own celebratory song. Charlyne Mom to Zeb 17 DS > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which > most > > with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't > > make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very difficult > for > > my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and > unable > > to coordinate her fine motor movements. > > Sherry > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Yes, sign would be difficult for those who do not have minimal fine motor skills. At age 7, my son still has difficulty being *exact* (like the I love you sign includes the pointer and oinky, but he tries hard to also get the thumb out); however, he is a kid, and I do not expect him to sign like an expert adult...I do not expect myself to sign like an expert and some fingerspells are even difficult for me. But the majority of the signs are so close that a person who is deaf can read them quite well and understand. Here is the link for Krown: http://www.krownmfg.com/us/products/signtranslator.htm It is not *my* device, nor one I created or market, but I did come across it and I hope to get one myself to use with my son (both as a learning tool and a help for us with sign language). Since my son is always looking at my hands when I sign, rather than facial expressions, I usually do not do the whole gesture thing (unless I am getting onto him and mad, then my face shows it). Extreme feelings (happy, mad, etc... are expressed with my face naturally). I find that kids with autism (at least my kids anyway), have a difficult time *reading* expressions anyway....so, why bother with the whole body thing. I hope the Krown device helps if anyone decides to get one. If you get one before me, then let us all know how it works. (I will do the same if I get one first.) :0) > > Signing is dependant on fine motor skills. Many of our kids could never speak > with sign . My kid can't turn a door knob yet or hold a pen. years and years > of fine-motor work and not one bit of improvement.  Kezia can't point with her > index finger nor isolate her fingers and she  still points with thumb down and > palm open. She hasn't mastered a pincer grasp at the age of thirteen. She > can't do action songs like eensy spider even though they are high interest. > >   >   your device sounds very handy. thanks. I will explore. > >  I found learning conversational sign hopelessly difficult.  Sadly, I can't co > ordinate my body, hands and face.    Nor can i decipher it when i see it > spoken.    Such a beautiful expressive language/culture.      On the bright > side,  Kezia and I can both sign " LOOSER " on our foreheads.   > >  jay, mom to Kezia 12 > > > > ________________________________ > > To: > Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 11:28:46 PM > Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs > >  > I disagree that Signed English is difficult to learn. As with any language > system, even spoken english, if you do not know a word then you have to look it > up. Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with > autism are, then sign language is easy. > > I looked into cued speech, but found it complicated and difficult because it is > very limted. > They make a device (handheld) to look up signs in a jiffy. Krown makes it. > > > > is > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 You are right in that SEE/Signed English easy to learn and know/use hundreds of signs (my son approximates many due to fine motor issues and has created his own as well). I guess difficult was not the best word to use. Perhaps tedious or impractical would have been better. In our experience, when my son's langauge explosion occurred at about 5-6 years of age we could not keep up with all the signs. Cognitively he quickly surpassed what we as hearning and native English users could use and we did not want him to have that gap at that crucial time in his development. We also had problems with therapists and teachers using a certain sign for a word and then us either not knowing what he was saying or them using a different sign than we used and then having multiple signs for the same word. We also found that people who did not know sign language could not communicate at all with him. Cued speech is much different than sign lanauge becuase it is sound based. It is not another whole different language to learn like sign language is. I wanted my child to learn English well first. I do not need him to be bilingual at this time when English, his native language, is difficult enough for him! Cued speech is English. You are just having to learn the cues for the English sounds. It takes about 12 hours to learn the entire system and start using immediately, and then about 15 minutes of practice a day to become fluent in a year to cue as fast as you can speak while hardly thinking about it and not have to slow down your speech at all. For those with fine motor issues that makes signing prohibitive, or as an add-on system so that non-cue users can communicate with the individual, there is something called Nu-Vue-Cue that puts cued speech on paper or even on clear plexiglass for those with only eye gaze capabilities. Basically you just point to the sound and make words phonetically. We also have used this method in addition to physical cuing becuase my son has severe oral motor issues that sometimes make him difficult to lip read. Therefore, I would have to disagree that cued speech is limited, especially when compared to sign, unless you are a deaf individual who wants to learn sign in order to be able to socialize better within the deaf community. Cued speech is a tool for speech, language, and communication while sign is solely for communication, and can be adapted for those with fine motor skill issues. I am by no means saying that cued speech is for everyone. I just really believe that it is not well known and is highly underused and can be an excellent tool for many with many advantages over sign for individuals like my son. If sign works for your family that is great, I just have myself done and seen others drop signs as the child got older not becuase it was not needed or helpful, but becuase it was inconvenient. It can help, is a great system for some, and definitely is better than nothing. > > I disagree that Signed English is difficult to learn. As with any language system, even spoken english, if you do not know a word then you have to look it up. Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which most with autism are, then sign language is easy. > I looked into cued speech, but found it complicated and difficult because it is very limted. > They make a device (handheld) to look up signs in a jiffy. Krown makes it. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 **Since my son is always looking at my hands when I sign, rather than facial expressions...** This is another advantage of cued speech for many individuals with communication issues and autism. Whereas with signs you get accustomed to looking at the hands, but with cued speech the main focus is on the face, mouth, and articulators with the hands as secondary cues next to the mouth. Handshapes are done in combination with placements directly next to the mouth, 4 inches to the side of the mouth, the throat, and the chin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 Nope - they had their own song - he just has a large round object in a large opening in his body - and he doesn't care for people with disabilites coming to his franchise. A real not nice guy. But Elie loves the place and it is the ONLY one in 50 miles. > > > > Too bad Sara, ASCAP most likely tried to collect risiduals for singing the > song. It's the reason most chains have their own celebratory song. > Charlyne > Mom to Zeb 17 DS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Welearned it very easily. If your child is a visual learner, which > > most > > > with autism are, then sign language is easy. <<<< > > > > > > Not really. Sign language was easy for YOU and your child. That doesn't > > > make it easy for *all* or even *most* with Autism. It was very > difficult > > for > > > my child who is definitely a visual learner but unable to mimic and > > unable > > > to coordinate her fine motor movements. > > > Sherry > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 Starting at a very young age we used total communication with (now 14 y/o DS, ASD & Apraxia). We always insisted that he speak and sign the words. His speech was unintelligible for the most part and his signing attempts were more approximations to start with (fine motor issues). Over the years his speech clarity has improved (though still has a long way to go), but his signs are quite good now. We use SEE (Signed Exact English). We started with words of interest to - animals, food etc. As he progressed I took all the Dolche Word List - pre-primary through 3rd grade, made flash cards with the word on one side and the sign on the other and provided a copy for the school to use with . We have him say, sign, read, spell and write the words. So now if I can’t figure out what he is saying/signing, sometimes he can spell it for me. We start with saying and signing the word. After that is mastered we add reading, spelling and writing. I had not heard of the Krown Sign Language Translator but checked out the link you supplied and noted the price $229. Cheaper/free alternatives available are: ASL Video Dictionary & Inflection Guide CD available for $49.95. It has links for similar signs, use of the word in a sentence, and you can watch the sign in normal speed or slow speed. I have this CD and thought it was a good purchase. http://www.ntid.rit.edu/dig/ Free on line ASL dictionaries: http://signingsavvy.com/ http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/browser.htm http://www.aslpro.com/ Sue > > Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs > To: > Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 12:03 AM > > Yes, sign would be difficult for those who do not > have minimal fine motor skills. At age 7, my son still has > difficulty being *exact* (like the I love you sign includes > the pointer and oinky, but he tries hard to also get the > thumb out); however, he is a kid, and I do not expect him to > sign like an expert adult...I do not expect myself to sign > like an expert and some fingerspells are even difficult for > me. But the majority of the signs are so close that a person > who is deaf can read them quite well and understand. > > Here is the link for Krown: http://www.krownmfg.com/us/products/signtranslator.htm > > It is not *my* device, nor one I created or market, but I > did come across it and I hope to get one myself to use with > my son (both as a learning tool and a help for us with sign > language). > > Since my son is always looking at my hands when I sign, > rather than facial expressions, I usually do not do the > whole gesture thing (unless I am getting onto him and mad, > then my face shows it). Extreme feelings (happy, mad, etc... > are expressed with my face naturally). I find that kids with > autism (at least my kids anyway), have a difficult time > *reading* expressions anyway....so, why bother with the > whole body thing. > > I hope the Krown device helps if anyone decides to get one. > If you get one before me, then let us all know how it works. > (I will do the same if I get one first.) > > :0) > > > > > > > > > > > > Signing is dependant on fine motor skills. Many of > our kids could never speak > > > with sign . My kid can't turn a door knob > yet or hold a pen. years and years > > > of fine-motor work and not one bit of > improvement.  Kezia can't point with her > > > index finger nor isolate her fingers and > she  still points with thumb down and > > > palm open. She hasn't mastered a pincer > grasp at the age of thirteen. She > > > can't do action songs like eensy > spider even though they are high interest. > > > > > >   > > >   your device sounds very handy. thanks. > I will explore. > > > > > >  I found learning conversational > sign hopelessly difficult.  Sadly, I can't co > > > ordinate my body, hands and > face.    Nor can i decipher it when i see it > > > spoken.    Such a beautiful > expressive language/culture.      On > the bright > > > side,  Kezia and I can both sign " LOOSER " > on our foreheads.   > > > > > >  jay, mom to Kezia 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 11:28:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: PECS vs. signs > > > > > >  > > > I disagree that Signed English is difficult to learn. > As with any language > > > system, even spoken english, if you do not know a word > then you have to look it > > > up. Welearned it very easily. If your child is a > visual learner, which most with > > > autism are, then sign language is easy. > > > > > > I looked into cued speech, but found it complicated > and difficult because it is > > > very limted. > > > They make a device (handheld) to look up signs in a > jiffy. Krown makes it. > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 There's also a cheap Ipod app for signing (ASL) that I find myself using quite a bit. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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