RE: Dyke wall height

[Guest guest]

Dear Ravi,

Please refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for

dyke capaciy and minimum height requirements.

M.Balachandran.

ravi safety

Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals

26/12/06 05:19 PM

To

indiansafetyprofessionals

cc

Subject

Dyke wall

height

Dear all

Normally dyke wall are constructed to hold 120% of the

capcity of largest tank. I want know what is minimum height of the wall.

Also request you send related standards

regards

ravi

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[Guest guest]

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is it should

take normally 110% volume of the tank. Example if u r storing 100liters of

water the dyke should have the capacity to hold 110 liters of water.

With Regards

Dinesh

Re:

Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please

refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Dinesh,

A fine tuned version, " It should

be 110 % of of the largest tank after deducting hold up area of that

particular tank " .

Regards.

M.Balachandran.

" M, DINESH [AG/8016] "

27/12/06 11:50 AM

To

,

" ravi safety "

cc

<indiansafetyprofessionals >

Subject

RE: Dyke

wall height

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is

it should take normally 110% volume of the tank. Example if u r storing

100liters of water the dyke should have the capacity to hold 110 liters

of water.

With Regards

Dinesh

Re: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height

requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged

and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by

persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this

e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it

and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other

use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited.

All e-mails and attachments sent and received

are subject to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient

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attachment.

Disclaimer :

Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

Since gone through the three-four

mails & all are giving about the largest tank capacity volume will be the dyke

wall capacity, but the question arises what is the capacity of the dykewall if

there are 3 tanks of same capacity & if there is an potential of getting bursting

of all three tanks??

The maximum dyke wall height is 1.2 m

Regards

Nilesh A Bhayani

Safety Officer

Indian Rayon.

From: indiansafetyprofessionals

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006

12:54 PM

To:

balachandran.m@...; ravi safety

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: RE:

Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is it should take normally 110% volume of

the tank. Example if u r storing 100liters of water the dyke should have the

capacity to hold 110 liters of water.

With Regards

Dinesh

-----Original

Message-----

From: indiansafetyprofessionals

[mailto:indiansafetyprofessionals ]

On Behalf Of balachandran.m@...elf.co.in

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006

10:09 AM

To: ravi safety

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: Re:

Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please

refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or confidential

information, and is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive

such information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the

sender immediately. Please delete it and all attachments from any servers, hard

drives or any other media. Other use of this e-mail by you is strictly

prohibited.

All e-mails and attachments sent and received are subject to monitoring,

reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient of this e-mail is solely

responsible for checking for the presence of " Viruses " or other

" Malware " . Monsanto accepts no liability for any damage caused by any

such code transmitted by or accompanying this e-mail or any attachment.

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

Generally and even in HAZOP study multiple

failures are not considered to establish " Operation Control - Engineering " .

Please consider one of the largest capacity of tank (though you have more

of same size) for dyke wall construction .

System to take of multiple failure may

be " Emergency or Disaster Management Plan "

Please validate my statement through

some renowned consultants or statutory authority before taking it granted.

My understanding may not fully

right.

Regards.

M.Balachandran.

" Safety Deptt. "

Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals

27/12/06 02:22 PM

To

" M, DINESH [AG/8016] "

cc

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject

RE: Dyke

wall height

Dear Sir,

Since gone through the three-four mails & all are giving about

the largest tank capacity volume will be the dyke wall capacity, but the

question arises what is the capacity of the dykewall if there are 3 tanks

of same capacity & if there is an potential of getting bursting of

all three tanks??

The maximum dyke wall height

is 1.2 m

Regards

Nilesh A Bhayani

Safety Officer

Indian Rayon.

From: indiansafetyprofessionals

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:54 PM

To: balachandran.m@...; ravi safety

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: RE: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is

it should take normally 110% volume of the tank. Example if u r storing

100liters of water the dyke should have the capacity to hold 110 liters

of water.

With Regards

Dinesh

Re: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height

requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged

and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by

persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this

e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it

and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other

use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited.

All e-mails and attachments sent and received

are subject to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient

of this e-mail is solely responsible for checking for the presence of " Viruses "

or other " Malware " . Monsanto accepts no liability for any damage

caused by any such code transmitted by or accompanying this e-mail or any

attachment.

Disclaimer :

Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to

TotalFinaElf India Limited and is intended for use only by the individual

or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is

privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.

If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have

been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended

recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for

delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that

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[Guest guest]

Gentlemen,

When you work out the probability of a failure of a tank.............it

would be a very minimum.

Because it has its own design features, factor of safety etc.... which

will ensure that the failure probability is very minimum.

Many a times it will be in fractions ( ie less than

1)

When you consider the probability of all tanks failure at a given

time, the probability will be very very

less...........................

( Because the probability all tanks failure at a given time would

be.................... Probability of tank 1

X probability 2 X Prabobality of tank3...................which

would be very very less...............For eg...If you multiply a fraction

with another fraction you get much lesser value

....................0.5X0.5=0.25) You can see the probability of two tanks

at a time is reduced.....When more tanks are there, the probability still

gets reduced.....more & more as the multiplication with fraction

increases)

Hence it would be more appropriate to plan for a high probability

event ie the probability of failure of the biggest tank in a cluster of

tanks.

Hence the secondary containment for the biggest tank would be a

technoeconomical consideration.

However a word of caution.......................................The

tanks should have minimum distance maintained in between them as per the

relevant standards .

regards

Balaji

SCHLUMBERGER

At 15:41 27-12-06, balachandran.m@...

wrote:

Dear All,

Generally and even in HAZOP study multiple failures are not

considered to establish " Operation Control - Engineering " .

Please consider one of the largest capacity of tank (though you have more

of same size) for dyke wall construction .

System to take of multiple failure may be " Emergency

or Disaster Management Plan "

Please validate my statement through some renowned

consultants or statutory authority before taking it granted.

My understanding may not fully right.

Regards.

M.Balachandran.

" Safety Deptt. "

Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals

27/12/06 02:22 PM

To

" M, DINESH [AG/8016] "

cc

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject

RE: Dyke wall height

Dear Sir,

Since gone through the

three-four mails & all are giving about the largest tank capacity

volume will be the dyke wall capacity, but the question arises what is

the capacity of the dykewall if there are 3 tanks of same capacity &

if there is an potential of getting bursting of all three tanks??

The maximum dyke wall height is 1.2 m

Regards

Nilesh A Bhayani

Safety Officer

Indian Rayon.

From:

indiansafetyprofessionals

[

mailto:dinesh.m@...]

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:54 PM

To: balachandran.m@...; ravi safety

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: RE: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is it should take

normally 110% volume of the tank. Example if u r storing 100liters of

water the dyke should have the capacity to hold 110 liters of

water.

With Regards

Dinesh

Re: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height

requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or

confidential information, and is intended to be received only by persons

entitled to receive such information. If you have received this e-mail in

error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it and all

attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other use

of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited.

All e-mails and attachments sent and received are subject

to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient of this

e-mail is solely responsible for checking for the presence of

" Viruses " or other " Malware " . Monsanto accepts no

liability for any damage caused by any such code transmitted by or

accompanying this e-mail or any attachment.

Disclaimer :

Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to

TotalFinaElf India Limited and is intended for use only by the individual

or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is

privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.

If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have

been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended

recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for

delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that

any use, distribution, transmission, printing, copying or dissemination

of this information in any way or in any manner is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this communication in error, please delete this mail

& notify us immediately at notes@...

[Guest guest]

Mr Balaji's statement on dyke wall is correct with further fine tuning

Normally 110% of largest tank is considered adequate with all other precautions as stated by Mr Balaji

Further the volatility rate, cryogenic conditions are also to be considered whether it is superheated/subcooled or not etc and allowance to be given accordingly.

Balaji Muthukrishnan

Balaji Muthukrishnan

Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals

27/12/2006 04:38 PM

To

balachandran.m@..., " Safety Deptt. "

cc

" M, DINESH [AG/8016] " , indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject

RE: Dyke wall height

Gentlemen,

When you work out the probability of a failure of a tank.............it would be a very minimum.

Because it has its own design features, factor of safety etc.... which will ensure that the failure probability is very minimum.

Many a times it will be in fractions ( ie less than 1)

When you consider the probability of all tanks failure at a given time, the probability will be very very less...........................

( Because the probability all tanks failure at a given time would be.................... Probability of tank 1 X probability 2 X Prabobality of tank3...................which would be very very less...............For eg...If you multiply a fraction with another fraction you get much lesser value ...................0.5X0.5=0.25) You can see the probability of two tanks at a time is reduced.....When more tanks are there, the probability still gets reduced.....more & more as the multiplication with fraction increases)

Hence it would be more appropriate to plan for a high probability event ie the probability of failure of the biggest tank in a cluster of tanks.

Hence the secondary containment for the biggest tank would be a technoeconomical consideration.

However a word of caution.......................................The tanks should have minimum distance maintained in between them as per the relevant standards .

regards

Balaji

SCHLUMBERGER

At 15:41 27-12-06, balachandran.m@... wrote:

Dear All,

Generally and even in HAZOP study multiple failures are not considered to establish " Operation Control - Engineering " . Please consider one of the largest capacity of tank (though you have more of same size) for dyke wall construction .

System to take of multiple failure may be " Emergency or Disaster Management Plan "

Please validate my statement through some renowned consultants or statutory authority before taking it granted.

My understanding may not fully right.

Regards.

M.Balachandran.

" Safety Deptt. "

Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals

27/12/06 02:22 PM

To

" M, DINESH [AG/8016] "

cc

indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject

RE: Dyke wall height

Dear Sir,

Since gone through the three-four mails & all are giving about the largest tank capacity volume will be the dyke wall capacity, but the question arises what is the capacity of the dykewall if there are 3 tanks of same capacity & if there is an potential of getting bursting of all three tanks??

The maximum dyke wall height is 1.2 m

Regards

Nilesh A Bhayani

Safety Officer

Indian Rayon.

From: indiansafetyprofessionals [ mailto:dinesh.m@...]

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:54 PM

To: balachandran.m@...; ravi safety

Cc: indiansafetyprofessionals

Subject: RE: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

The general rule for Dyke is it should take normally 110% volume of the tank. Example if u r storing 100liters of water the dyke should have the capacity to hold 110 liters of water.

With Regards

Dinesh

Re: Dyke wall height

Dear Ravi,

Please refer OISD 118 point no 7.0 for dyke capaciy and minimum height requirements.

M.Balachandran.

This e-mail message may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive such information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. Please delete it and all attachments from any servers, hard drives or any other media. Other use of this e-mail by you is strictly prohibited.

All e-mails and attachments sent and received are subject to monitoring, reading and archival by Monsanto. The recipient of this e-mail is solely responsible for checking for the presence of " Viruses " or other " Malware " . Monsanto accepts no liability for any damage caused by any such code transmitted by or accompanying this e-mail or any attachment.

Disclaimer :

Information contained and transmitted by this E-MAIL is proprietary to TotalFinaElf India Limited and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If this is a forwarded message, the content of this E-MAIL may not have been sent with the authority of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, an agent of the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named recipient, you are notified that any use, distribution, transmission, printing, copying or dissemination of this information in any way or in any manner is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete this mail & notify us immediately at notes@...

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