Re: spanking & spitting

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/2004 9:12:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, autism-aspergers writes:

I am very opposed to this type of "discipline" as it teaches

nothing but to "get back" at the person who wrongs you.

I swore I'd never spank my kids (ok, that was before I had any, but my mom beat us to a pulp sometimes). But, when my aspie son was little & constantly bugging people to death (self-stim beh???) & I couldn't get him to stop, I tried spanking him. It only modelled hitting & he began hitting others as well. So, he replaced the bugging behavior with hitting. ugh. If I only knew then what I know now. It took forever to get him to stop hitting!

Alison

[Guest guest]

I am very opposed to this type of "discipline" as it teaches

nothing but to "get back" at the person who wrongs you.

I swore I'd never spank my kids (ok, that was before I had any, but my mom beat us to a pulp sometimes). But, when my aspie son was little & constantly bugging people to death (self-stim beh???) & I couldn't get him to stop, I tried spanking him. It only modelled hitting & he began hitting others as well. So, he replaced the bugging behavior with hitting. ugh. If I only knew then what I know now. It took forever to get him to stop hitting!Alison

When did this come up? I don't remember it. On my kids when I spank them it has never resorted in them hitting back. Maybe mine are the only ones who don't. They all know that "IF" they chose to hit then their punishment is 1 spank on the bottom. We sat down and discussed it with (13), Geoffrey (12) & Jabari (8). With I ahve let him know that if he hits his brothers that there are consequences and those consequences are 1 spank on the bottom. I even ask him if he remembered me telling him not to he says yes. I also ask him if he remembers what the punishment was and he says yes a spanking. I don't beat my kids. But I don't let them become bullies either. I never spanked them because of bugging people. I would however put them in a time out. tended to do the bugging. I would also call out his name and get his attention and tell him to calm down and I then would talk to him and tell him he needs to stop. Most of the time this would stop. There were times when I would have to cover his mouth and remind him to be quiet. either a finger to the lips or the whole hand. Not a slap just cover like you would when teaching them to cover their mouth when coughing. When it came to spitting I would give a little spat on the lips (with the 3 middle fingers). Just enough to let them know that it was not appropriate. Our neighbor's daughter has been spitting and her brothers have been saying she does not know any better. She starts kindergarten this year. And she is still doing it. I don't allow the kids to play with the neighbors anymore. I have mentioned this only to have her parent say she does not know that it is wrong. She is a normal child. She even tears up plants in my garden as well as the ones in her yard. She is now threatening to hit our kids. I firmly believe there needs to be consequences for actions that are out right disobedience. With Aspie kids it is a little more difficult. But, If you correct in love and explain it in a way that they understand then they are able to learn. It does get frustrating alot when those not so good behaviors come out. I don't claim to know everything about spanking or not. I usually use whatever works at the time. And it is not always a spank. Well I have rambled too much. Have a good week.

Dawn.....Mom of 4

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I don't think there is anything wrong with one spank on the bottom. I used it with my four kids and use with my grandkids when they need it which is when they willfully choose to not obey a command from me to them. I back up what I want with my authority to enforce what I want. This is the only time that I use it, and never to vent my anger or anything.

So to me it is training them to obey me. I am the authority figure, and I will enforce my direct commands. Commands sounds funny, but can't think of a better word. haha

Well I did it with both my dogs. I took them to dog training school, and we were taught to give a command, and then enforce it with a little pain. With them of course I did not spank, but gave a little yank on the leash so that they could feel it.

Our trainer said many people did not agree with this type of training, but said that dog bites from vicious dogs are a very serious problem, and that dogs needed to be trained to obey authority. And also that children needed to be trained to obey authority, because if they are not then they can become quite destructive to themselves and to society in general.

Yes, sometimes the kids will hit back, but if they are taught correctly they will soon learn not to rebel, will learn that they don't have authority and so they might as well submit. So it is not about hitting, but about who has the authority. And if they want to fight it they will get hurt, kind of like when teenagers have to go to jail for this and that, when they have no respect for the police, etc.

I will admit, I am old fashioned, but very proud of my grown adult children. Not a criminal among them. And even Marty with all of his serious behavior problems, I really do believe that my firm stance towards him helped him more than anything. He so tried to push me around, and I refused to back down. This was long after the training stage when a child is young, that his rebellious streak hit him.

He had been taught who I was in his life, and yet he rebelled against me thinking he could run me and my world, so I stood against him. And guess who won. We are both still here and our lives have Peace!

Just my opinions here you understand, haha

Carolyn in Oregon

Re: spanking & spitting

I am very opposed to this type of "discipline" as it teaches

nothing but to "get back" at the person who wrongs you.

I swore I'd never spank my kids (ok, that was before I had any, but my mom beat us to a pulp sometimes). But, when my aspie son was little & constantly bugging people to death (self-stim beh???) & I couldn't get him to stop, I tried spanking him. It only modelled hitting & he began hitting others as well. So, he replaced the bugging behavior with hitting. ugh. If I only knew then what I know now. It took forever to get him to stop hitting!Alison

[Guest guest]

Carolyn the top part was from another person. Not me. I was just wondering when the message was sent cause I had not seen it before or I may have missed something. I then started to ramble. I too believe in punishments when needed. I have been so busy around here trying to get the end of year assessments for & Geoffrey and other things that I thought I had missed something. Thanks for the message. Lets me know I am not alone. 8O) Have a good week.

Dawn.....Mom of 4

dstar39@...

Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: spanking & spitting

I am very opposed to this type of "discipline" as it teaches

nothing but to "get back" at the person who wrongs you.

I swore I'd never spank my kids (ok, that was before I had any, but my mom beat us to a pulp sometimes). But, when my aspie son was little & constantly bugging people to death (self-stim beh???) & I couldn't get him to stop, I tried spanking him. It only modelled hitting & he began hitting others as well. So, he replaced the bugging behavior with hitting. ugh. If I only knew then what I know now. It took forever to get him to stop hitting!Alison

[Guest guest]

I am not saying that spanking is right or wrong or even getting into

that dilemma, but that it really needs to be kept in check. If

someone is going to start using corporal punishment for stimming and

other uncontrollable behavior, it is a real danger.

My kids are not out of control, and I learned early on that some kids

just do not do well with corporal punishment. One son needed it for

extreme behaviors, but it just seemed to agitate others and make the

situation worse. I had to find alternative methods of teaching and

demanding respect.

I have raised not only my two step sons, but also a permanent foster

daughter, a biological son, and an adopted daughter. Three out of the

five are now fully grown, are not on drugs, are self-sufficient and

independent, and are happy/healthy. My biological son is not

aggressive and is very respectful to authority figures and

classmates. My adopted daughter, who is 6, received the class award

for being best " classroom moderator " . Out of the five children, four

of them have special needs, yet two have gone on to 4-year

universities and one of the two has already graduated...

Again, I am not saying spanking is wrong... but when I hear of a

father that is using it to try to stop a child from stimming, I am

leery and quite frankly have seen it go too far with some special

needs kids that I have had to piece back together once they have

entered the system...

Rabecca

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

The original post delt with a mother that was worried about her

daughter (age 4) who currently is stemming due to an oral fixation.

Her husband is hitting the child, trying to get the child to stop and

has even hit the child's tongue, which only seemed to stimulate the

child's oral fixation even more. Though I have spanked some of my

kids, and they have really needed it on occasion, I do not believe it

is a cure-all for all activities or that stimming can be stopped by

spanking. If it could, would any of us have kids that still flapped

hands, turned in circles, made animal noises, or licked things? If it

would cure my son of his difficulties with AS, I would use it... but

to spank over stimming is something that I think really needs to be

thought and talked about!!!

Rabecca

[Guest guest]

Hi Rabecca,

I agree with you, the father should not be hitting the child for behaviors that come from the autism. This kind of thing cannot be stopped by hitting.

What was hard for us as our son, Marty, was growing up was that it was very hard to tell when he was deliberately being disobedient to us, from when he was lost in his own world. We figured we still had to train him to obey us even with his problems. It was not an easy job and I am sure we made many mistakes, as all parents do, but we got through it.

His adolescent years were the worst, from about age 13 to 23. He was just really crazy and violent a lot. I didn't know what to do with him, just mostly held the ground I had already established that I was his authority figure, by then his father was pretty much out of the picture which was kind of good in a way as men tend to think brute force is best. Sigh.

It is kind of funny too, because the schools figured "compliance training" was the key to taming him. They made him stand up and sit down hundreds of times in a row. It was supposed to make him "give in" to them. They even proposed I let them do it in a swimming pool so that when my son threw himself down in anger then he would drown! I said no way.

To this day I believe that their treatment made him worse, I really do. Yes, maybe I spank once in awhile, when my command is clearly understood and disobeyed, but at least I did not play with their minds and try to manipulate them into compliance. And anyway when their methods all failed they gave up, and I single handedly brought him under control at home. It took awhile, and I have a few scars, but we did it.

I think Love was the power that worked. Marty knew I loved him, he just knew and finally he gave in. I remember once I told him if he didn't quit fighting me so hard they were going to take him away and lock him up and he wouldn't get to see us anymore, and I think that finally helped him.

What a trial it was!

So today I have to take him to his throat specialist to be scoped. He has had some serious congestion in his throat for about a week now and we took him to ER and they put him on antibiotic, but I am really worried about his trachea. He has had some problems in there during seizures, doesn't seem like he is getting enough air, and I don't know what is going on so want it looked at. He has scar tissue in there from being sick and having to be on a plastic trach for nine months.

Always something around here! Did I tell you we have a new baby. My daughter Tara had him on July 27th and she has brought him over a couple of times. I gave him his bottle yesterday. He is such a little sweetie pie. Lucas Montara is his name.

Onward we go into the battle set before us!

Best wishes and salutations to you all!

Carolyn

Re: spanking & spitting

Dawn,The original post delt with a mother that was worried about her daughter (age 4) who currently is stemming due to an oral fixation. Her husband is hitting the child, trying to get the child to stop and has even hit the child's tongue, which only seemed to stimulate the child's oral fixation even more. Though I have spanked some of my kids, and they have really needed it on occasion, I do not believe it is a cure-all for all activities or that stimming can be stopped by spanking. If it could, would any of us have kids that still flapped hands, turned in circles, made animal noises, or licked things? If it would cure my son of his difficulties with AS, I would use it... but to spank over stimming is something that I think really needs to be thought and talked about!!!Rabecca