Re: Help wanted Down Under

[Guest guest]

Thankyou to any of you who respond, love and

thanks, Chaise.

the first step it seems is getting clear with your mother about your difficulty, your dilemma

let her know that you may decide to not play the game, that you may not be able to play the game, that you cannot fake it.

i get the feeling that so far she has a spoken or unspoken pact with you, that you will continue the secret.

what ever you do choose to do, it seems you have to get this straight with your mother, and yourself.

but the yourself part seems to be hinged on this pact with your mother which you may not feel free in.

it does come down to honoring yourself, opening your way of dealing with this, but there is the additional burden that you have made a point of honor of sorts with your mother.

if you cannot stay in the secret, i think you should tell her now.

then it the rest of your choices will open from that point.

she will either allow you, or forbid you, or what ever, but you should, for your own sake, honor her relationship with you, by giving her your truth.

not very katieish advise, but i get the sense of you bound in a dual problem with this situation, your own, and your mothers.

you have got to free yourself of the one to deal with the other, i think.

fwiw i do not believe in secrets. lies are for the purpose or ease of those who tell them, or allow them, no matter what they tell themselves. no matter who they say they are protecting, they are protecting them selves, to their own detriment.

steve

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Recently my mother was visiting, and

revealed to me a dark family secret that her father

had sexually abused her and her sister for years when

they were children. She had never spoken about it to

anyone before, even her sister, so it was a great

release for her and she has since spoken to her sister

and my father and recieves much support from them.

She asked me to keep her secret, not share it with

even my sisters or partner. Since then I have chosen

to talk to a few 'safe' people for my own sanity, but

it remains that she and her sister do not want to

confront my grandfather(they never have). My

grandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of true

honour, my role model for what was good and true in

life, someone to aspire to. I felt my world crumble

when Mum told me what he had done, a large sense of my

self, the basis for my bellief system pulled out from

under me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now rebuilding

my own set of beliefs!) I experienced a huge

shock/grief response that lasted several weeks. Then

I numbed up and went through a denial phase. Now I

realise I have work to do to get through this, brought

about by the fact that I will be visiting the area my

grandfather lives in a few weeks, and the family

expectation is that I will see him as per normal.

I have a certain amount of intellectual clarity,

ie it's essentially her story not mine, it explains so

much about my own upbringing, can see the positives of

her having told me etc. But getting to the crunch, I

have a decision to make regarding seeing/speaking to

him. To live in honesty for myself, or to do the

usual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep my

mouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that I know

anything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I did

the work, some great insights and peace of mind came

out of it, but I still feel totally undecided as to

whether to see him and be honest, see him and say

nothing, never spaek to him again without expaination.

So I could do with some help! Have a look at these

turn arounds.

I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth.

-I'm angry that I won't bring out the truth...OR

-I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.

I want her to stand up to my gandfather.

-I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR

-I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.

She shouldn't make excuses for what he did.

-I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR

-I should make excuses for what he did.

She should scream and yell at him.

-I should scream and yell at him.,,OR

-I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my head

(yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at me in

my head!)

She should face him

-I should face him...OR

-I shouldn't face him

I need her to be honest to him so I am free from this

stress.

-I need me to be honest to him so I am free from

this stress...OR

-I do not need to be honest with him. I am free.

She is not honouring herself in her silence.

-I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR

-I am honouring myself in my silence...OR

-I am honourng him in my silence(a rather horrifying

and confusing thought to me in this moment)

Soooo...if anyone can help me out there I'd greatly

appreciate it. I just don't know which way to go. Just

prior to this whole revelation I had resolved to break

the cycle of pretense in my family, to live in honesty

and truth, to face my fears and work through it etc

etc. My life was changing incredibly and I was loving

life's joys and challenges equally for the first time

in my life. Then I learn this great secret and am

asked to keep it for someone else, a concept my body

and mind are revolting against after my recently

discovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep the

family secret and code of dishonesty, or live true to

my beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief about

honesty, go back to pretending and withholding my

truths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love and

thanks, Chaise.

--- honoku@... wrote: > In a message dated

12/25/2001 7:16:26 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> mramsey@... writes:

>

>

> > thank you to all for all your lovely messages love

>

> > martha

> >

> >

>

> i glad it brought you some warmth, and i appreciate

> your sharing your day's

> feelings with me.

> merry is our nature, but it is not the whole story

> of who we are.

> love, peace, understanding,

> steve

>

http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!

- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

[Guest guest]

hi chris-

i love that you see that nothing has changed except your story about your grandfather....and if the story you had made you happy, why not keep that story. why change to your mother's story? ( which story is truer? one is true for you and one for her) and you could ask to see your grandfather alone and say- "grandfather, i know what happened between you and my mother-it has helped me to understand a lot about my life. and i love you." and let it go. you may be one of the few people in his life who saw him so whole and beautifully which he is ----and he was confused. if god is everything and god is good then your grandfather can not be otherwise.

my "story" was that i was the abused one....until i realized i didn't have to keep that story. ( thanks to katie) and i have nothing but love now and it is so much freer (course it only took me 40 yrs to get there!) and so much more truthful. i am sorry i don't know how to write to just you on this group- so i guess it will go to everyone. i am at lshuman@... love to you, laurie

Re: Help wanted Down Under

Dear all, Recently my mother was visiting, andrevealed to me a dark family secret that her fatherhad sexually abused her and her sister for years whenthey were children. She had never spoken about it toanyone before, even her sister, so it was a greatrelease for her and she has since spoken to her sisterand my father and recieves much support from them. She asked me to keep her secret, not share it witheven my sisters or partner. Since then I have chosento talk to a few 'safe' people for my own sanity, butit remains that she and her sister do not want toconfront my grandfather(they never have). Mygrandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of truehonour, my role model for what was good and true inlife, someone to aspire to. I felt my world crumblewhen Mum told me what he had done, a large sense of myself, the basis for my bellief system pulled out fromunder me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now rebuildingmy own set of beliefs!) I experienced a hugeshock/grief response that lasted several weeks. ThenI numbed up and went through a denial phase. Now Irealise I have work to do to get through this, broughtabout by the fact that I will be visiting the area mygrandfather lives in a few weeks, and the familyexpectation is that I will see him as per normal. I have a certain amount of intellectual clarity,ie it's essentially her story not mine, it explains somuch about my own upbringing, can see the positives ofher having told me etc. But getting to the crunch, Ihave a decision to make regarding seeing/speaking tohim. To live in honesty for myself, or to do theusual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep mymouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that I knowanything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I didthe work, some great insights and peace of mind cameout of it, but I still feel totally undecided as towhether to see him and be honest, see him and saynothing, never spaek to him again without expaination.So I could do with some help! Have a look at theseturn arounds. I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth. -I'm angry that I won't bring out the truth...OR -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.I want her to stand up to my gandfather. -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.She shouldn't make excuses for what he did. -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR -I should make excuses for what he did.She should scream and yell at him. -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my head (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at me inmy head!)She should face him -I should face him...OR -I shouldn't face himI need her to be honest to him so I am free from thisstress. -I need me to be honest to him so I am free fromthis stress...OR -I do not need to be honest with him. I am free.She is not honouring herself in her silence. -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honourng him in my silence(a rather horrifyingand confusing thought to me in this moment)Soooo...if anyone can help me out there I'd greatlyappreciate it. I just don't know which way to go. Justprior to this whole revelation I had resolved to breakthe cycle of pretense in my family, to live in honestyand truth, to face my fears and work through it etcetc. My life was changing incredibly and I was lovinglife's joys and challenges equally for the first timein my life. Then I learn this great secret and amasked to keep it for someone else, a concept my bodyand mind are revolting against after my recentlydiscovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep thefamily secret and code of dishonesty, or live true tomy beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief abouthonesty, go back to pretending and withholding mytruths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love andthanks, Chaise.--- honoku@... wrote: > In a message dated12/25/2001 7:16:26 PM Eastern> Standard Time, > mramsey@... writes:> > > > thank you to all for all your lovely messages love> > > martha > > > > > > i glad it brought you some warmth, and i appreciate> your sharing your day's > feelings with me.> merry is our nature, but it is not the whole story> of who we are.> love, peace, understanding, > steve> http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

[Guest guest]

I like what has to say. I want to add a few words. Try not deciding in advance what you will do or say. See what happens in the moment, if you can.

I love doing The Work, especially on family. I see that these early stories have shaped all of my interactions. I think that perhaps I lived for 16 years and then just replayed the same tapes, changing the names and faces. Now that I can do The Work, the unraveling is making it possible for me to live in the moment (have some new experiences) and be free of the past.

Anyway, I would simply suggest that you don't decide in advance and then ask yourself . . . from the heart . . . if you want to see your Grandfather or not. Also, ask your heart if you want to say something to him, or your mother, or not.

Can I add more . . . I have found myself very uncomfortable bringing up certain subjects with my husband (ridiculous things like discussing buying a toy for our daughter). If I am uncomfortable talking to him about anything, I simply do The Work and forget planning when I will talk to him and what I will say. Then I watch to see what unfolds. I've experienced, time and time again, that there comes a moment when I can say something in total peace and without attachment. My sense of peace seems to make him very open to listening to me and the interaction is pleasant and productive. This type of communication is something I could never achieve by planning. The spontaneity . . . the surprise . . . of the discussion is really fun.

And make it a point to talk with yourself about this . . . as you are . . . You're the one that matters here. The others are fine and don't need rescuing or protecting (in my opinion).

I love that you have The Work to help you. Amazing that you learn about this other story after you have a way of inquiring. You are fortunate (and the turn around: I am fortunate).

Heidi

Re: Help wanted Down Under

Dear all, Recently my mother was visiting, andrevealed to me a dark family secret that her fatherhad sexually abused her and her sister for years whenthey were children. She had never spoken about it toanyone before, even her sister, so it was a greatrelease for her and she has since spoken to her sisterand my father and recieves much support from them. She asked me to keep her secret, not share it witheven my sisters or partner. Since then I have chosento talk to a few 'safe' people for my own sanity, butit remains that she and her sister do not want toconfront my grandfather(they never have). Mygrandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of truehonour, my role model for what was good and true inlife, someone to aspire to. I felt my world crumblewhen Mum told me what he had done, a large sense of myself, the basis for my bellief system pulled out fromunder me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now rebuildingmy own set of beliefs!) I experienced a hugeshock/grief response that lasted several weeks. ThenI numbed up and went through a denial phase. Now Irealise I have work to do to get through this, broughtabout by the fact that I will be visiting the area mygrandfather lives in a few weeks, and the familyexpectation is that I will see him as per normal. I have a certain amount of intellectual clarity,ie it's essentially her story not mine, it explains somuch about my own upbringing, can see the positives ofher having told me etc. But getting to the crunch, Ihave a decision to make regarding seeing/speaking tohim. To live in honesty for myself, or to do theusual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep mymouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that I knowanything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I didthe work, some great insights and peace of mind cameout of it, but I still feel totally undecided as towhether to see him and be honest, see him and saynothing, never spaek to him again without expaination.So I could do with some help! Have a look at theseturn arounds. I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth. -I'm angry that I won't bring out the truth...OR -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.I want her to stand up to my gandfather. -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.She shouldn't make excuses for what he did. -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR -I should make excuses for what he did.She should scream and yell at him. -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my head (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at me inmy head!)She should face him -I should face him...OR -I shouldn't face himI need her to be honest to him so I am free from thisstress. -I need me to be honest to him so I am free fromthis stress...OR -I do not need to be honest with him. I am free.She is not honouring herself in her silence. -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honourng him in my silence(a rather horrifyingand confusing thought to me in this moment)Soooo...if anyone can help me out there I'd greatlyappreciate it. I just don't know which way to go. Justprior to this whole revelation I had resolved to breakthe cycle of pretense in my family, to live in honestyand truth, to face my fears and work through it etcetc. My life was changing incredibly and I was lovinglife's joys and challenges equally for the first timein my life. Then I learn this great secret and amasked to keep it for someone else, a concept my bodyand mind are revolting against after my recentlydiscovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep thefamily secret and code of dishonesty, or live true tomy beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief abouthonesty, go back to pretending and withholding mytruths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love andthanks, Chaise.--- honoku@... wrote: > In a message dated12/25/2001 7:16:26 PM Eastern> Standard Time, > mramsey@... writes:> > > > thank you to all for all your lovely messages love> > > martha > > > > > > i glad it brought you some warmth, and i appreciate> your sharing your day's > feelings with me.> merry is our nature, but it is not the whole story> of who we are.> love, peace, understanding, > steve> http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

[Guest guest]

> Then I learn this great secret and am

> asked to keep it for someone else, a concept my body

> and mind are revolting against after my recently

> discovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep the

> family secret and code of dishonesty, or live true to

> my beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief about

> honesty, go back to pretending and withholding my

> truths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love and

> thanks, Chaise.

Chaise: I can hear that you are feeling a whirlwind of emotions. I think

that you may be feeling a very real and genuine anger towards your mother

for burdening you with this secret. The natural order of things is that the

mother would protect the child, not ask the child to carry her rightful

burdens, and so it is a good possiblility that you are feeling this anger

towards your mother. And since you love your mom, what follows after that

is guilt for feeling the anger since she is the injured party and you

'should' be feeling compassion for her and, at the same time, you would have

a natural urge to defend her. Then there would be your own feelings of

helpless about the situation, confusion about what to think and what to

do.........and this is not even touching on the mixed feelings you have

towards your grandfather.

I think you need time to sort all of this out. It is so painful and

disillusioning to have the rug pulled out from underneath you like that and

you need to take whatever time you need to sort it out. You may want to

talk to a trusted advisor, mentor, minister or counsellor, an uninvolved

person who can be a sounding board for you. In the meantime, find a

plausible reason not to visit your grandfather and defy the " family

expectations that you will see him as normal " until you have come to a

personal resolution regarding the matter, so that whatever action you decide

to take will be the one that you know, in your heart of hearts, is one you

can live with. Best wishes....

Lynne

Re: Help wanted Down Under

> Dear all,

> Recently my mother was visiting, and

> revealed to me a dark family secret that her father

> had sexually abused her and her sister for years when

> they were children. She had never spoken about it to

> anyone before, even her sister, so it was a great

> release for her and she has since spoken to her sister

> and my father and recieves much support from them.

> She asked me to keep her secret, not share it with

> even my sisters or partner. Since then I have chosen

> to talk to a few 'safe' people for my own sanity, but

> it remains that she and her sister do not want to

> confront my grandfather(they never have). My

> grandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of true

> honour, my role model for what was good and true in

> life, someone to aspire to. I felt my world crumble

> when Mum told me what he had done, a large sense of my

> self, the basis for my bellief system pulled out from

> under me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now rebuilding

> my own set of beliefs!) I experienced a huge

> shock/grief response that lasted several weeks. Then

> I numbed up and went through a denial phase. Now I

> realise I have work to do to get through this, brought

> about by the fact that I will be visiting the area my

> grandfather lives in a few weeks, and the family

> expectation is that I will see him as per normal.

> I have a certain amount of intellectual clarity,

> ie it's essentially her story not mine, it explains so

> much about my own upbringing, can see the positives of

> her having told me etc. But getting to the crunch, I

> have a decision to make regarding seeing/speaking to

> him. To live in honesty for myself, or to do the

> usual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep my

> mouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that I know

> anything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I did

> the work, some great insights and peace of mind came

> out of it, but I still feel totally undecided as to

> whether to see him and be honest, see him and say

> nothing, never spaek to him again without expaination.

> So I could do with some help! Have a look at these

> turn arounds.

>

> I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth.

> -I'm angry that I won't bring out the truth...OR

> -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.

>

> I want her to stand up to my gandfather.

> -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR

> -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.

>

> She shouldn't make excuses for what he did.

> -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR

> -I should make excuses for what he did.

>

> She should scream and yell at him.

> -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR

> -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my head

> (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at me in

> my head!)

>

> She should face him

> -I should face him...OR

> -I shouldn't face him

>

> I need her to be honest to him so I am free from this

> stress.

> -I need me to be honest to him so I am free from

> this stress...OR

> -I do not need to be honest with him. I am free.

>

> She is not honouring herself in her silence.

> -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR

> -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR

> -I am honourng him in my silence(a rather horrifying

> and confusing thought to me in this moment)

>

> Soooo...if anyone can help me out there I'd greatly

> appreciate it. I just don't know which way to go. Just

> prior to this whole revelation I had resolved to break

> the cycle of pretense in my family, to live in honesty

> and truth, to face my fears and work through it etc

> etc. My life was changing incredibly and I was loving

> life's joys and challenges equally for the first time

> in my life. Then I learn this great secret and am

> asked to keep it for someone else, a concept my body

> and mind are revolting against after my recently

> discovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep the

> family secret and code of dishonesty, or live true to

> my beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief about

> honesty, go back to pretending and withholding my

> truths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love and

> thanks, Chaise.

>

>

> --- honoku@... wrote: > In a message dated

> 12/25/2001 7:16:26 PM Eastern

> > Standard Time,

> > mramsey@... writes:

> >

> >

> > > thank you to all for all your lovely messages love

> >

> > > martha

> > >

> > >

> >

> > i glad it brought you some warmth, and i appreciate

> > your sharing your day's

> > feelings with me.

> > merry is our nature, but it is not the whole story

> > of who we are.

> > love, peace, understanding,

> > steve

> >

>

> http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!

> - It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Laurie, Heidi, Steve & Lynne,

I humbly thankyou

each and all for your support, clarity, insights and

practical advice. Words cannot fully express my

feeling of gratitude. The giving I have received from

you and others in this group has astonished me, I feel

humbly grateful. What a fantastic thing to have such

a group of people via email, there for the purpose of

good, to support each other. I love how each of you

offered a totally different response, and how those

responses to my problem can help all those who are

reading. And i have drawn upon each response and

gained something from each to make a collective whole.

Tonight I rang my mother and told her my truth that

keeping her 'secret' was no longer something I am

willing to do. (Thankyou Steve) I already feel such

relief in knowing that I am free of that. And how

easy it was! Her response was fearful and angry, but

I came from a place of love without attachment so all

is well. I explained myself without over

justification. I talked also about the effect her

'telling' me has had on me, and the part she played in

it for me. She felt I was blaming her, but this is ok

also, I think she blames herself. Lynne your insights

about anger towards my mother are so right, when I

read it I felt a relief, like I was admitting it out

loud. Recognise my feelings of guilt there, great.

It's also helpful for me to remember that yes there's

several different issues going on at once, it has

tended to all blur into one. Steve I love your 'not

very kateyish' response. A very 'Steve' response is

just as valid! I was also thinking my response to my

problem was not very kateyish...crazy really as I am

me. Your support of honesty and truth is how I also

feel, and it was great to read that from you in my

moment of selfdoubt.

Laurie I am intrigued at how you have changed your

story. Where I am right now that sounds highly

appealing and unattainable...could I actually change

my story? Would this mean leaving certain

people/family behind? Interesting. I find it hard to

think of keeping my story about my grandfather when it

was built around bullshit. I guess what that is is

that I want the true story, not a fantasy. Because

hiding the truth has damaged so much over

generations...And Heidi your advice was also relevant.

The thought of not forcing a decision and just going

with the flow is a relief, and feels right.

I feel now much clearer in a way, and more

peaceful about the next couple of weeks. I have no

decision as to what 'to do' about my grandfather, but

it is always true that when I let go the answer will

come. I can see my issues with my mother more

seperately. I feel that is something I can actively

work on, without controlling. There are things to be

said there, truths to be told, and sometimes stands to

be taken. Thankyou thankyou all. xxxChaise

--- Heidi Sewall wrote: > I

like what has to say. I want to add a few

> words. Try not deciding in advance what you will do

> or say. See what happens in the moment, if you can.

>

> I love doing The Work, especially on family. I see

> that these early stories have shaped all of my

> interactions. I think that perhaps I lived for 16

> years and then just replayed the same tapes,

> changing the names and faces. Now that I can do The

> Work, the unraveling is making it possible for me to

> live in the moment (have some new experiences) and

> be free of the past.

>

> Anyway, I would simply suggest that you don't decide

> in advance and then ask yourself . . . from the

> heart . . . if you want to see your Grandfather or

> not. Also, ask your heart if you want to say

> something to him, or your mother, or not.

>

> Can I add more . . . I have found myself very

> uncomfortable bringing up certain subjects with my

> husband (ridiculous things like discussing buying a

> toy for our daughter). If I am uncomfortable talking

> to him about anything, I simply do The Work and

> forget planning when I will talk to him and what I

> will say. Then I watch to see what unfolds. I've

> experienced, time and time again, that there comes a

> moment when I can say something in total peace and

> without attachment. My sense of peace seems to make

> him very open to listening to me and the interaction

> is pleasant and productive. This type of

> communication is something I could never achieve by

> planning. The spontaneity . . . the surprise . . .

> of the discussion is really fun.

>

> And make it a point to talk with yourself about this

> . . . as you are . . . You're the one that matters

> here. The others are fine and don't need rescuing or

> protecting (in my opinion).

>

> I love that you have The Work to help you. Amazing

> that you learn about this other story after you have

> a way of inquiring. You are fortunate (and the turn

> around: I am fortunate).

>

> Heidi

>

> Re: Help wanted Down

> Under

>

>

> Dear all,

> Recently my mother was visiting, and

> revealed to me a dark family secret that her

> father

> had sexually abused her and her sister for years

> when

> they were children. She had never spoken about

> it to

> anyone before, even her sister, so it was a

> great

> release for her and she has since spoken to her

> sister

> and my father and recieves much support from

> them.

> She asked me to keep her secret, not share it

> with

> even my sisters or partner. Since then I have

> chosen

> to talk to a few 'safe' people for my own

> sanity, but

> it remains that she and her sister do not want

> to

> confront my grandfather(they never have). My

> grandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of

> true

> honour, my role model for what was good and true

> in

> life, someone to aspire to. I felt my world

> crumble

> when Mum told me what he had done, a large sense

> of my

> self, the basis for my bellief system pulled out

> from

> under me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now

> rebuilding

> my own set of beliefs!) I experienced a huge

> shock/grief response that lasted several weeks.

> Then

> I numbed up and went through a denial phase.

> Now I

> realise I have work to do to get through this,

> brought

> about by the fact that I will be visiting the

> area my

> grandfather lives in a few weeks, and the family

> expectation is that I will see him as per

> normal.

> I have a certain amount of intellectual

> clarity,

> ie it's essentially her story not mine, it

> explains so

> much about my own upbringing, can see the

> positives of

> her having told me etc. But getting to the

> crunch, I

> have a decision to make regarding

> seeing/speaking to

> him. To live in honesty for myself, or to do

> the

> usual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep

> my

> mouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that

> I know

> anything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I

> did

> the work, some great insights and peace of mind

> came

> out of it, but I still feel totally undecided as

> to

> whether to see him and be honest, see him and

> say

> nothing, never spaek to him again without

> expaination.

> So I could do with some help! Have a look at

> these

> turn arounds.

>

> I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth.

> -I'm angry that I won't bring out the

> truth...OR

> -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.

>

> I want her to stand up to my gandfather.

> -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR

> -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.

>

> She shouldn't make excuses for what he did.

> -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR

> -I should make excuses for what he did.

>

> She should scream and yell at him.

> -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR

> -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my

> head

> (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at

> me in

> my head!)

>

> She should face him

> -I should face him...OR

> -I shouldn't face him

>

> I need her to be honest to him so I am free from

> this

> stress.

> -I need me to be honest to him so I am free

> from

> this stress...OR

> -I do not need to be honest with him. I am

> free.

>

> She is not honouring herself in her silence.

> -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR

> -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR

>

=== message truncated ===

http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!

- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

[Guest guest]

Chris

I think that investigating one thought after the other,

is a good way of dealing with your sudden problem.

It takes some time, to undo them all.

And all are coming up at once, and makes it very complicate.

It seems this problem is to big. And its not, if you do the work

on one thought, undo that one good, say to the other thoughts

that they must wait, to meet you- in dept- later.

The one that hurts most, is the one you investigate now,

the others can wait.

There are also tapes, (do you have them or a list?) that can help.

Michiel

[Guest guest]

Dear Chaise,

I think Steve is right. Secrets are no good to anyone. You have been

brilliant so far, the way you have been dealing with this. I really

honour your courage.

I've just been trying to think about the whole thing from the point of

view of the welfare of all those concerned. I mean the souls' welfare.

That your mother has been able to speak about it - surely to the good.

That you are dealing with the shock and all the mixed emotions

intelligently, lovingly and reasonably - excellent. But what about your

grandfather? Is it better for him to go on living a lie - perhaps even

taking the deception with him to his death? Or would it be better for

him - even though intensely painful - that it be brought out into the

open, for him to acknowledge and admit to himself ? It seems to me that

being honest with oneself is always in the end a relief. (My father's

work brought him into regular contact with people who were imprisoned

for sometimes heinous crimes. He said they were, on their own

admission, always relieved and grateful to receive justice, even in the

form of punishment - in fact they didn't like it if they felt their

sentences weren't long enough. It seems the worst thing in the end is

keeping a guilty secret hidden.) What you refer to as the family's

'usual dysfunctional pattern' serves nobody. Maybe you can be the one

to help your grandfather step free and become his genuinely beautiful

self. Maybe it could free your mother too. 'One word of truth can

change the whole world' - so said Solzhenitsyn.

It seems to be that if you do decide to let your grandfather know that

you know, it needn't be done in any dramatic way. Maybe you could

simply let him quietly realise. Anyway, as you have said, knowing what

to 'do' will only come in the moment - there's no need to 'rehearse'

anything. You'll know precisely what's right for the situation when it

actually arises. Whatever happens - it's obvious from the way you write

- love will be the governing factor. And if you do in the end decide to

let sleeping dogs lie - that will be OK too.

With love,

Katharine

[Guest guest]

Dear

I just returned, last night, from the New Year's cleanse with and received this e-mail dated 12-25. You may already have resolved it for yourself.

Your turn arounds were good, you're doing the work. Here are some other possibilities: "I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth." - She already did, to herself and to you. "I want her to stand up to my grandfather." - What does she want?... it's her story "She shouldn't make excuses for what he did." "She should scream and yell at him." "She should face him." -She should do what she does.

Love,

Swandale

Re: Help wanted Down Under

Dear all, Recently my mother was visiting, andrevealed to me a dark family secret that her fatherhad sexually abused her and her sister for years whenthey were children. She had never spoken about it toanyone before, even her sister, so it was a greatrelease for her and she has since spoken to her sisterand my father and recieves much support from them. She asked me to keep her secret, not share it witheven my sisters or partner. Since then I have chosento talk to a few 'safe' people for my own sanity, butit remains that she and her sister do not want toconfront my grandfather(they never have). Mygrandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of truehonour, my role model for what was good and true inlife, someone to aspire to. I felt my world crumblewhen Mum told me what he had done, a large sense of myself, the basis for my bellief system pulled out fromunder me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now rebuildingmy own set of beliefs!) I experienced a hugeshock/grief response that lasted several weeks. ThenI numbed up and went through a denial phase. Now Irealise I have work to do to get through this, broughtabout by the fact that I will be visiting the area mygrandfather lives in a few weeks, and the familyexpectation is that I will see him as per normal. I have a certain amount of intellectual clarity,ie it's essentially her story not mine, it explains somuch about my own upbringing, can see the positives ofher having told me etc. But getting to the crunch, Ihave a decision to make regarding seeing/speaking tohim. To live in honesty for myself, or to do theusual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep mymouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that I knowanything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I didthe work, some great insights and peace of mind cameout of it, but I still feel totally undecided as towhether to see him and be honest, see him and saynothing, never spaek to him again without expaination.So I could do with some help! Have a look at theseturn arounds. I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth. -I'm angry that I won't bring out the truth...OR -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.I want her to stand up to my gandfather. -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.She shouldn't make excuses for what he did. -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR -I should make excuses for what he did.She should scream and yell at him. -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my head (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at me inmy head!)She should face him -I should face him...OR -I shouldn't face himI need her to be honest to him so I am free from thisstress. -I need me to be honest to him so I am free fromthis stress...OR -I do not need to be honest with him. I am free.She is not honouring herself in her silence. -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR -I am honourng him in my silence(a rather horrifyingand confusing thought to me in this moment)Soooo...if anyone can help me out there I'd greatlyappreciate it. I just don't know which way to go. Justprior to this whole revelation I had resolved to breakthe cycle of pretense in my family, to live in honestyand truth, to face my fears and work through it etcetc. My life was changing incredibly and I was lovinglife's joys and challenges equally for the first timein my life. Then I learn this great secret and amasked to keep it for someone else, a concept my bodyand mind are revolting against after my recentlydiscovered freedom in honesty. What to do? Keep thefamily secret and code of dishonesty, or live true tomy beliefs of honesty. Or change my belief abouthonesty, go back to pretending and withholding mytruths? Thankyou to any of you who respond, love andthanks, Chaise.--- honoku@... wrote: > In a message dated12/25/2001 7:16:26 PM Eastern> Standard Time, > mramsey@... writes:> > > > thank you to all for all your lovely messages love> > > martha > > > > > > i glad it brought you some warmth, and i appreciate> your sharing your day's > feelings with me.> merry is our nature, but it is not the whole story> of who we are.> love, peace, understanding, > steve> http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!- It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . I loved reading your message. I've been disturbed by

sexual abuse all of my life, although it has never happened to me or (as far

as I know) even been a possibility. Something I heard, or knew intuitively

about someone else has made me very uncomfortable with the thoughts of

sexual abuse. I've listened to a lot of tapes of people doing The Work with

on abuse. Hard to listen to at first, then easier, and finally a clear

sense of " oh yes . . . love confused for a moment " . I like hearing stories

again to investigate what hasn't been seen within me.

Now I am thinking about the story behind " What parents should tell their

children about family members. " We all have secrets of one kind or another.

Our daughter is very young (5) and we simply try to refrain from negative

talk about anyone . . . in other words, if we wouldn't say it to the

person's face, we don't say it at the dinner table. I am finding it

interesting to consider what my story is about telling her things or not

telling her things.

Anyway, thanks.

Heidi

Re: Help wanted Down

> > Under

> >

> >

> > Dear all,

> > Recently my mother was visiting, and

> > revealed to me a dark family secret that her

> > father

> > had sexually abused her and her sister for years

> > when

> > they were children. She had never spoken about

> > it to

> > anyone before, even her sister, so it was a

> > great

> > release for her and she has since spoken to her

> > sister

> > and my father and recieves much support from

> > them.

> > She asked me to keep her secret, not share it

> > with

> > even my sisters or partner. Since then I have

> > chosen

> > to talk to a few 'safe' people for my own

> > sanity, but

> > it remains that she and her sister do not want

> > to

> > confront my grandfather(they never have). My

> > grandfather was always my hero, war hero, man of

> > true

> > honour, my role model for what was good and true

> > in

> > life, someone to aspire to. I felt my world

> > crumble

> > when Mum told me what he had done, a large sense

> > of my

> > self, the basis for my bellief system pulled out

> > from

> > under me. (Extremely cleansing! I am now

> > rebuilding

> > my own set of beliefs!) I experienced a huge

> > shock/grief response that lasted several weeks.

> > Then

> > I numbed up and went through a denial phase.

> > Now I

> > realise I have work to do to get through this,

> > brought

> > about by the fact that I will be visiting the

> > area my

> > grandfather lives in a few weeks, and the family

> > expectation is that I will see him as per

> > normal.

> > I have a certain amount of intellectual

> > clarity,

> > ie it's essentially her story not mine, it

> > explains so

> > much about my own upbringing, can see the

> > positives of

> > her having told me etc. But getting to the

> > crunch, I

> > have a decision to make regarding

> > seeing/speaking to

> > him. To live in honesty for myself, or to do

> > the

> > usual dysfunctional pattern of my family - keep

> > my

> > mouth shut, smile sweetly and don't let on that

> > I know

> > anything or that I'm emotional about it. So, I

> > did

> > the work, some great insights and peace of mind

> > came

> > out of it, but I still feel totally undecided as

> > to

> > whether to see him and be honest, see him and

> > say

> > nothing, never spaek to him again without

> > expaination.

> > So I could do with some help! Have a look at

> > these

> > turn arounds.

> >

> > I'm angry that Mum won't bring out the truth.

> > -I'm angry that I won't bring out the

> > truth...OR

> > -I'm glad I won't bring out the truth.

> >

> > I want her to stand up to my gandfather.

> > -I want to stand up to my grandfather ...OR

> > -I don't want to stand up to my grandfather.

> >

> > She shouldn't make excuses for what he did.

> > -I shouldn't make excuses for what he did...OR

> > -I should make excuses for what he did.

> >

> > She should scream and yell at him.

> > -I should scream and yell at him.,,OR

> > -I shouldn't scream and yell at him (in my

> > head

> > (yeah, I know, I shouldn't scream and yell at

> > me in

> > my head!)

> >

> > She should face him

> > -I should face him...OR

> > -I shouldn't face him

> >

> > I need her to be honest to him so I am free from

> > this

> > stress.

> > -I need me to be honest to him so I am free

> > from

> > this stress...OR

> > -I do not need to be honest with him. I am

> > free.

> >

> > She is not honouring herself in her silence.

> > -I am not honouring myself in my silence...OR

> > -I am honouring myself in my silence...OR

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

> http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo!

> - It's My Yahoo! Get your own!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support and inspiration to

follow the path of truth, honesty and love.

--- Katharine

wrote:

<HR>

<html><body>

<tt>

Dear Chaise,<BR>

<BR>

I think Steve is right. & nbsp; Secrets are no good to

anyone. & nbsp; You have been<BR>

brilliant so far, the way you have been dealing with

this. & nbsp; I really<BR>

honour your courage.<BR>

<BR>

I've just been trying to think about the whole thing

from the point of<BR>

view of the welfare of all those concerned. & nbsp; I

mean the souls' welfare.<BR>

That your mother has been able to speak about it -

surely to the good.<BR>

That you are dealing with the shock and all the mixed

emotions<BR>

intelligently, lovingly and reasonably -

excellent. & nbsp; But what about your<BR>

grandfather? & nbsp; Is it better for him to go on

living a lie - perhaps even<BR>

taking the deception with him to his death? & nbsp; Or

would it be better for<BR>

him - even though intensely painful - that it be

brought out into the<BR>

open, for him to acknowledge and admit to himself

? & nbsp; It seems to me that<BR>

being honest with oneself is always in the end a

relief. & nbsp; (My father's<BR>

work brought him into regular contact with people who

were imprisoned<BR>

for sometimes heinous crimes. & nbsp; He said they were,

on their own<BR>

admission, always relieved and grateful to receive

justice, even in the<BR>

form of punishment - in fact they didn't like it if

they felt their<BR>

sentences weren't long enough. & nbsp; It seems the

worst thing in the end is<BR>

keeping a guilty secret hidden.) & nbsp; What you refer

to as the family's<BR>

'usual dysfunctional pattern' serves

nobody. & nbsp; & nbsp; Maybe you can be the one<BR>

to help your grandfather step free and become his

genuinely beautiful<BR>

self. & nbsp; Maybe it could free your mother too. & nbsp;

'One word of truth can<BR>

change the whole world' - so said Solzhenitsyn.<BR>

<BR>

It seems to be that if you do decide to let your

grandfather know that<BR>

you know, it needn't be done in any dramatic

way. & nbsp; Maybe you could<BR>

simply let him quietly realise. & nbsp; Anyway, as you

have said, knowing what<BR>

to 'do' will only come in the moment - there's no need

to 'rehearse'<BR>

anything. & nbsp; You'll know precisely what's right for

the situation when it<BR>

actually arises. & nbsp; Whatever happens - it's obvious

from the way you write<BR>

- love will be the governing factor. & nbsp; And if you

do in the end decide to<BR>

let sleeping dogs lie - that will be OK too.<BR>

<BR>

With love,<BR>

<BR>

Katharine<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<br>

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