Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Would Elie understand, and not be confused, if you told him that some

people believe *Santa* is God's helper and that it has nothing to do with

material

gifts and that it has to do with helping other people? I think it's

wonderful that Elie is aware of the different holiday. He has grown so much.

Gail :-)

Now here is a problem I have not had before. This year Elie suddenly

realizes that there is a Santa as something more than a song one sings. He

keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His class is going tomorrow to

" visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home. This is not our holiday

.. Normally, I would protest anyone going - what part of school and in whose

IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with Elie, that I really don't

want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also do not want Elie to be

part of the Snata myth.

Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate Hanukah - and that has

NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah bush, sing songs that

sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies - none of that. With

our now grown children, we did give little token gifts on each night of the

holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah games, their own Hanuka

menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small as that is not the reason

for this season!!!

Elie has never recognized any of this except that he always has had his own

candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that has been his thrill.

Now that all the siblings are grown and only return home en masse at

Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other little gifts when we are

together - just because we are together. Usually this is something handmade

or a specialty food only available where each one lives or the best - a new

batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2006 12:10:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

absull@... writes:

.. You can explain to him that it is a

tradition and a myth(if he can understand that).

Just to clarify, Santa is a secular version of St. who was a holy

and generous " real " man. He did in fact live and bestow gifts on the less

fortunate. If anyone is interested I would be happy to share how this Santa

character came about but he does stem from a wonderful person who did indeed

live.

That said, while Christmas is unbelievably secularized, it does in fact have

everything to do with the birth of Jesus. It is a very holy time for many

of us. It saddens me to see what others make of it but do not mistake the

secular celebration with the true religious one.

I know many families who celebrate the birth of Christ without having Santa

in the picture. We begin with Advent, 4 weeks prior to Dec. 25th and

prepare our families to celebrate the day Christ was born. We may exchange

gifts

(many do that on St. 's feast day earlier in Dec or wait until the

Epiphany of Jan 6th). We give gifts not to have more stuff but to imitate the

generosity of Christ that began with the example set by St. .

As to the school celebration of Santa, well, as I said it is not a religious

one. When I was teaching the 5th grade students learned about Chanukah,

and Kwanzaa. Then someone WAS going to talk about Santa as if that was the

Christian celebration. I explained that Santa was not the reason for Christmas

and ultimately, I was the one to talk to the students about what the

Christmas celebration was about. Oddly enough the only complaint was that

Christ was

discussed????

I am surprised that Santa is even allowed in schools these days. I would bet

that other parents (non Christian and Christian) would object to the whole

Santa thing. If it

does bother you than I would say something. Explain that by going with the

Santa idea the school is deliberately excluded others and even offending

some! Of course, if this teacher is wonderful, as you say, she did not mean to

exclude or offend. She just wanted to do something fun. Perhaps if they

still go ahead with the visit you may wish to keep your child home. Or let him

go with the understanding of how Santa came about in this country and that

people all have different beliefs. This is not one of yours.

God luck, these situations are not easy to deal with.

Blessings, W

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2006 2:34:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stamtorch@... writes:

God luck, these situations are not easy to deal with.

Freudian slip??? I really did mean to type out Good Luck!

[Guest guest]

At the risk of ticking some people off, there is nothing offensive about the

Xmas spelling, if you know where the X came from. It did not start out as a

way to cross out Christ from Christmas. X has long been a symbol of Christs

name.

Europeans in the 16th century started using X in place of Christ's name as

shorthand for writing Christ. The Christian monks and scholars were

knowledgeable of the Greek letter X, - Chi or Khi - which is the first letter in

the

Greek word " Christos " or " Kristos " (Greek: CristoV) The Greek and Hebrew word

" Christos " comes out " Messiah " and mean the same thing: " The anointed One. "

For many years the X was understood by Christian clergy and as time passed,

many Christians, educated and not, were not aware of the meaning. Over time the

meaning became lost and was later of perceived as a sign disrespect.

I guess it all depends on where you stand on the subject, but from my point

of view, *I* prefer spelling it out but am also not offended by someone who

does not.

Blessings, W

in CT

homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

(just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age 3,

adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol

Syndrome, SID )

[Guest guest]

IT IS NOT SPELLED XMAS THIS HOLIDAY SEASON IS SPELLED

CHRISTMAS.

--- sara cohen wrote:

> Now here is a problem I have not had before. This

> year Elie suddenly

> realizes that there is a Santa as something more

> than a song one sings. He

> keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His

> class is going tomorrow to

> " visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home.

> This is not our holiday

> . Normally, I would protest anyone going - what

> part of school and in whose

> IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with

> Elie, that I really don't

> want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also

> do not want Elie to be

> part of the Snata myth.

>

> Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate

> Hanukah - and that has

> NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah

> bush, sing songs that

> sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies

> - none of that. With

> our now grown children, we did give little token

> gifts on each night of the

> holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah

> games, their own Hanuka

> menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small

> as that is not the reason

> for this season!!!

>

> Elie has never recognized any of this except that he

> always has had his own

> candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that

> has been his thrill.

>

> Now that all the siblings are grown and only return

> home en masse at

> Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other

> little gifts when we are

> together - just because we are together. Usually

> this is something handmade

> or a specialty food only available where each one

> lives or the best - a new

> batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

>

> So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

>

>

>

> Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about

> the lemons.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To:

> >To: < >

> >Subject: Re: not getting a dx..cause ??

> >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:27:13 -0600

> >

> >I sometimes wonder if the " Trauma " of their

> illnesses and all involved with

> >it doesn't have an impact on their diagnosis of

> " autism spectrum " . My son

> >Andy seemed to be developing normally for a child

> with Down syndrome until

> >he had his heart surgery which went terribly around

> 15 months.He went

> >through a terrible ordeal with it..needing to be

> " revived " several times

> >during and after surgery, getting a staph aurous

> infection and being cut

> >open without any anesthesia 7 days after his

> surgery. And healing from the

> >inside out as he was never stitched up again. His

> behavior completely

> >changed after surgery. From his perspective it must

> have seemed like child

> >abuse...and I was helping. I regret how I handled

> it all ..now 23 years

> >ago. I wanted to be with him at all times and now I

> wonder what he through

> >about that. Like why are you letting them do this

> to me mommy? He was and

> >is still a very loving fellow, but with all of the

> markers of autism.

> >Little speech.(much of it echolalia) Takes our

> hand,and brings us to what

> >he wants. Lines up his " toys " (things) Very upset if

> a change in routine. Of

> >course others would say that autism may just be

> starting to show at around

> >14 months...but I always associate it with his

> surgery.

> >Brigid

> > [sPAM] Re: Re: not getting

> a dx

> >

> > I am new to the group too. My son is 14 &

> wasn't diagnosed until he

> >was

> > 9 1/2. He did not have many of the classic

> symptoms of arm flapping,

> > head-banging, and so forth. The main thing to

> remember is that they are

> >all

> > unique. My son doesn't have a lot of behavioral

> issues, he just doesn't

> >know

> > how to relate to others or play very well. He is

> also not on any

> >medicines.

> >

> > He does have issues with eating foods with

> texture and will not bite

> >and/or

> > chew his food. He is also very developmentally

> delayed and is in the MO

> > state school.

> >

> > How old is your daughter now?

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Wow! , you are a fountain of knowledge. I never knew that, and I

always thought it was just a quick way to spell Christmas -- because we are all

in such a hurry. I have always taken the time to spell it out because I for

one like to be reminded of why we are celebrating the day. For Christ. But

now I will not feel so guilty if I do write X-mas.

PS. My son's school also celebrates and teaches about all the holidays.

Just as diverse as each child is in the classroom, so are all the traditions

each one brings. I think it's wonderful that they learn about all cultures and

beliefs. I don't know how much my will ever understand about any of

it -- but he is amazed at all the lights and beautiful music.

Happy (whatever) Holiday to each and everyone of you and your families.

Patty

[Guest guest]

Well, " Christmas " is so commercialized...it also doesn't really have anything

to do with the birth of Christ either! That said, you could keep him

home...or let him enjoy the " Santa " part of Christmas as part of the school

experience..a trip out to the mall(or store) or where ever " Santa " is..but

explaining to Elie taht it really isn't a part of " your " culture...but

something other people experience. You can explain to him that it is a

tradition and a myth(if he can understand that). Like a bedtime

story...which some people belive to be true.

Brigid

not getting a dx

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > So why is it so many " professionals " do not want to recognize or

>> admit

>> > > there may be more than just DS? It seems to me that that attitude

>> is

>> > > not very professional! At our IEP, they just keep saying how

>> Angie is

>> > > just very low functioning and not testable and it seems lots of

>> > > parents hear this. Isn't autism more than just social " delays " ? I

>> > > thought autism included behaviors like spinning, flicking, dropping

>> > > etc. And most parents with a DS child report this these autistic

>> type

>> > > of behaviors, so why are these DS kids not getting a dual dx? I am

>> > > confused I guess. I know it is more than just a label, but, in some

>> > > cases, you need that label, if you know what I mean. We're going to

>> > > see a neuro in a couple weeks. What kind of data can I bring to

>> him on

>> > > the dual dx? I hear he specializes in DS, so, perhands he'd be

>> aware

>> > > of the dual dx?

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara,

Zeb went to a Jewish preschool for 3 years. We are Christain and celebrate

Christmas. Zeb learned all the Jewish holidays. We embraced both holidays,

Hanakuh and Christmas. The preschool did not recognize Christmas. The preschool

was a private school. It was my choice to send him to that school fully aware

that he would participate in Jewish customs. Zeb benefited from this experience

as well as myself. I work in a public school that also embraces the Christain

traditions but they also recognize the Jewish students. One class in particular

with a Jewish student displays a menorah and the Star of . The students

also are learning about Hanukah. I think Elie's teacher should recognize Elie's

Jewish tradition by visiting a Jewish cultural center to learn about Hanakuh or

having someone come into the class to learn about it, playing Hanakuh games and

singing songs etc. What benefits one stufdent can benefit all.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 13 (almost 14) DS/OCD/ASD?

sara cohen wrote:

Now here is a problem I have not had before. This year Elie suddenly

realizes that there is a Santa as something more than a song one sings. He

keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His class is going tomorrow to

" visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home. This is not our holiday

.. Normally, I would protest anyone going - what part of school and in whose

IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with Elie, that I really don't

want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also do not want Elie to be

part of the Snata myth.

Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate Hanukah - and that has

NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah bush, sing songs that

sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies - none of that. With

our now grown children, we did give little token gifts on each night of the

holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah games, their own Hanuka

menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small as that is not the reason

for this season!!!

Elie has never recognized any of this except that he always has had his own

candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that has been his thrill.

Now that all the siblings are grown and only return home en masse at

Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other little gifts when we are

together - just because we are together. Usually this is something handmade

or a specialty food only available where each one lives or the best - a new

batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>From: " brigid sullivan "

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: not getting a dx..cause ??

>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:27:13 -0600

>

>I sometimes wonder if the " Trauma " of their illnesses and all involved with

>it doesn't have an impact on their diagnosis of " autism spectrum " . My son

>Andy seemed to be developing normally for a child with Down syndrome until

>he had his heart surgery which went terribly around 15 months.He went

>through a terrible ordeal with it..needing to be " revived " several times

>during and after surgery, getting a staph aurous infection and being cut

>open without any anesthesia 7 days after his surgery. And healing from the

>inside out as he was never stitched up again. His behavior completely

>changed after surgery. From his perspective it must have seemed like child

>abuse...and I was helping. I regret how I handled it all ..now 23 years

>ago. I wanted to be with him at all times and now I wonder what he through

>about that. Like why are you letting them do this to me mommy? He was and

>is still a very loving fellow, but with all of the markers of autism.

>Little speech.(much of it echolalia) Takes our hand,and brings us to what

>he wants. Lines up his " toys " (things) Very upset if a change in routine. Of

>course others would say that autism may just be starting to show at around

>14 months...but I always associate it with his surgery.

>Brigid

> not getting a dx

> > >

> > >

> > > So why is it so many " professionals " do not want to recognize or

> admit

> > > there may be more than just DS? It seems to me that that attitude is

> > > not very professional! At our IEP, they just keep saying how

> Angie is

> > > just very low functioning and not testable and it seems lots of

> > > parents hear this. Isn't autism more than just social " delays " ? I

> > > thought autism included behaviors like spinning, flicking, dropping

> > > etc. And most parents with a DS child report this these autistic

> type

> > > of behaviors, so why are these DS kids not getting a dual dx? I am

> > > confused I guess. I know it is more than just a label, but, in some

> > > cases, you need that label, if you know what I mean. We're going to

> > > see a neuro in a couple weeks. What kind of data can I bring to

> him on

> > > the dual dx? I hear he specializes in DS, so, perhands he'd be aware

> > > of the dual dx?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In defense of Sara, no disrespect was intended to her fellow Christains. The

group prides itself on kindness and sharing not political correctness in posts.

Let's extend every member that kindness and compassion in this holiday season

and throughout the year.

Charlyne

dean schafer wrote:

IT IS NOT SPELLED XMAS THIS HOLIDAY SEASON IS SPELLED

CHRISTMAS.

--- sara cohen wrote:

> Now here is a problem I have not had before. This

> year Elie suddenly

> realizes that there is a Santa as something more

> than a song one sings. He

> keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His

> class is going tomorrow to

> " visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home.

> This is not our holiday

> . Normally, I would protest anyone going - what

> part of school and in whose

> IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with

> Elie, that I really don't

> want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also

> do not want Elie to be

> part of the Snata myth.

>

> Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate

> Hanukah - and that has

> NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah

> bush, sing songs that

> sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies

> - none of that. With

> our now grown children, we did give little token

> gifts on each night of the

> holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah

> games, their own Hanuka

> menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small

> as that is not the reason

> for this season!!!

>

> Elie has never recognized any of this except that he

> always has had his own

> candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that

> has been his thrill.

>

> Now that all the siblings are grown and only return

> home en masse at

> Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other

> little gifts when we are

> together - just because we are together. Usually

> this is something handmade

> or a specialty food only available where each one

> lives or the best - a new

> batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

>

> So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

>

>

>

> Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about

> the lemons.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To:

> >To: < >

> >Subject: Re: not getting a dx..cause ??

> >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:27:13 -0600

> >

> >I sometimes wonder if the " Trauma " of their

> illnesses and all involved with

> >it doesn't have an impact on their diagnosis of

> " autism spectrum " . My son

> >Andy seemed to be developing normally for a child

> with Down syndrome until

> >he had his heart surgery which went terribly around

> 15 months.He went

> >through a terrible ordeal with it..needing to be

> " revived " several times

> >during and after surgery, getting a staph aurous

> infection and being cut

> >open without any anesthesia 7 days after his

> surgery. And healing from the

> >inside out as he was never stitched up again. His

> behavior completely

> >changed after surgery. From his perspective it must

> have seemed like child

> >abuse...and I was helping. I regret how I handled

> it all ..now 23 years

> >ago. I wanted to be with him at all times and now I

> wonder what he through

> >about that. Like why are you letting them do this

> to me mommy? He was and

> >is still a very loving fellow, but with all of the

> markers of autism.

> >Little speech.(much of it echolalia) Takes our

> hand,and brings us to what

> >he wants. Lines up his " toys " (things) Very upset if

> a change in routine. Of

> >course others would say that autism may just be

> starting to show at around

> >14 months...but I always associate it with his

> surgery.

> >Brigid

> > [sPAM] Re: Re: not getting

> a dx

> >

> > I am new to the group too. My son is 14 &

> wasn't diagnosed until he

> >was

> > 9 1/2. He did not have many of the classic

> symptoms of arm flapping,

> > head-banging, and so forth. The main thing to

> remember is that they are

> >all

> > unique. My son doesn't have a lot of behavioral

> issues, he just doesn't

> >know

> > how to relate to others or play very well. He is

> also not on any

> >medicines.

> >

> > He does have issues with eating foods with

> texture and will not bite

> >and/or

> > chew his food. He is also very developmentally

> delayed and is in the MO

> > state school.

> >

> > How old is your daughter now?

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________________

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

That's correct Sara. It was used as code in the first century, I believe.

It's not taking the Christ out of Christmas at all.

Gail :-)

BTW - I was taught that " X " is the Greek letter for the word Christ. Thus

Xmas is also correct and not a dimunition of Christian's holy holiday.

[Guest guest]

<<His class is going tomorrow to

" visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home. This is not our holiday >>

Is this a public school? There's no way they could get away with that down here.

It's illegal.

That said I'm a sucker for Santa and for happy kids so I'm not the best one to

advise. I was so thrilled that finally recognized Christmas and

Santa...not till she was 7 or 8 really. It's just now getting to be a big thing

with her. She sure as heck doesn't want to visit that fat old guy in the red

suit though....on videos, ok, but not in the flesh as it were. And she doesn't

really get the true meaning of Christmas, tho we keep trying. She loves

Christmas songs and she absolutely adores Jewish songs and dancing. I've always

said she should have been raised Jewish. Her favorite videos and songs are still

the old old Sharon Lois and bram stuff where they do alot of Jewish music and

dance.

I hope if he does go he doesn't have nightmares:-)

Sherry

[Guest guest]

that is very true, he was a bishop i do believe. I thought i read he gave

toys to orphans--My youngest knows of both, he understands that there was a

santa clause and many carry on giving gifts as he did but he also undestands

it

as Jesus' birthday, and nathan understands if i remind him of jesus

birthday, he just figured out this year to ask about presents, he knows of

santa from

videos and majorly loves christmas songs, this year he even sat on santas

lap at christmas land didnt say anything really but a first. I dont think he

has any idea of santa bringing gifts as weve never really done that, santa has

only ever braought a small gift for his stocking, that way they understand we

have to spend our money of gifts for them. My youngest has asked me about

hanukah but i havent been able to answer many questions growing up christain-- i

knew of the candles and a gift each day duirng but am unsure of much of

anything else. All these years of youth groups and he didnt een realize jesus

was

jewish, now he is like oohhh, butnow he is like " why arnt we jewish, or our

ancestors at least then if he was " he asks many complicated questions, of

many topics--one would think he would do better in school, lol , Anyways i

think

you should stick to your traditions and upbringing, there isnt anything the

school can do about it, they should have to get permission from each of the

parents first -- and if they are all young, i agree they are all most likely

to be scared of him. shawna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2006 8:18:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

sewshawna@... writes:

that is very true, he was a bishop i do believe. I thought I read he gave

toys to orphans

Yes, he was a Catholic bishop and a very good and holy man. The bishop

miter (hat) is what came to be the stocking cap we now see. The Bishops also

wore red (thus the red suit) and his crosier (staff) became the candy cane.

North American children mispronounced the Dutch name " Sinter Klass " which means

Saint and that is how we started calling him Santa Claus.The famous

1822 poem by Clement C. (Night Before Chrsitmas) political cartoonist

Nast from Harpers Weekly as well Haddon Sundblom's Coca Cola Santa

combined to create the American image of an elf like St. Nicolas living in the

North Pole.

He actually lived in Turkey and died in 350 a.d. He was of a wealthy family

and his parents left him everything upon their deaths. He gave away his

entire inheritance to the poor and dedicated his life to Christ.

There are a few stories told of his generosity. He knew of a man who did

not have money for his debts or daughters dowry. His 3 daughters were to be

sold into slavery (prostitution). was a very holy man and did not

want that to happen. He snuck into the families house and left 3 large bags of

gold into the window. The man was able to pay off his debts and save his

daughters from slavery.

There are a few other stories that have been handed down associated with his

generosity and children.

Now he is known by many names, Kris Kringle, Pere Noel, Grandfather Frost,

Father Christmas etc. Whatever you call him, his spirit is still the same-

share what you have, give and be generous, love each other as Christ loves us!

Enough of my history lesson, I just have been learning much of this myself

and thought I would share!

Blessings, W

in CT

homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

(just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age 3,

adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol

Syndrome, SID )

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2006 4:16:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

hamburgpatti@... writes:

Wow! , you are a fountain of knowledge

Ha, hardly. I have just decided to educate myself more on my faith and am

showing off a bit!

Blessings, W

in CT

homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

(just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age 3,

adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol

Syndrome, SID )

[Guest guest]

Thank you ! This is terrific information about which I have always been

curious- just never took time to look it up. Thank you very much.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2006 9:40:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stamtorch@... writes:

Ha, hardly. I have just decided to educate myself more on my faith and am

showing off a bit!

No, not at all. I love learning about the origin of things. I think you

are explaining it all very eloquently. I knew much of the story of Saint

, but you added so much more. Thank you. I'm going to share that

with

my girls. Mikey doesn't have a clue, but he teaches us so much about faith

and love that one can't ever learn from books.

take care, Patty

[Guest guest]

Chrlyn - I would not have a problem with that at all - in faact that is what

was done in all his other schools. One year I even came and made a Hanukah

paarty - complete with foods and games - but not gifts.

One of the things that concerns me is the taking of a christian religious

festival and turning it into a " gimme gift " fest.

BTW - I was taught that " X " is the Greek letter for the word Christ. Thus

Xmas is also correct and not a dimunition of Christian's holy holiday.

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:22:30 -0800 (PST)

>

>Hi Sara,

> Zeb went to a Jewish preschool for 3 years. We are Christain and

>celebrate Christmas. Zeb learned all the Jewish holidays. We embraced both

>holidays, Hanakuh and Christmas. The preschool did not recognize

>Christmas. The preschool was a private school. It was my choice to send him

>to that school fully aware that he would participate in Jewish customs. Zeb

>benefited from this experience as well as myself. I work in a public school

>that also embraces the Christain traditions but they also recognize the

>Jewish students. One class in particular with a Jewish student displays a

>menorah and the Star of . The students also are learning about

>Hanukah. I think Elie's teacher should recognize Elie's Jewish tradition by

>visiting a Jewish cultural center to learn about Hanakuh or having someone

>come into the class to learn about it, playing Hanakuh games and singing

>songs etc. What benefits one stufdent can benefit all.

> Charlyne

> Mom to Zeb 13 (almost 14) DS/OCD/ASD?

>

>sara cohen wrote:

> Now here is a problem I have not had before. This year Elie suddenly

>realizes that there is a Santa as something more than a song one sings. He

>keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His class is going tomorrow to

> " visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home. This is not our holiday

>. Normally, I would protest anyone going - what part of school and in whose

>IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with Elie, that I really don't

>want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also do not want Elie to be

>part of the Snata myth.

>

>Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate Hanukah - and that has

>NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah bush, sing songs that

>sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies - none of that. With

>our now grown children, we did give little token gifts on each night of the

>holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah games, their own Hanuka

>menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small as that is not the

>reason

>for this season!!!

>

>Elie has never recognized any of this except that he always has had his own

>candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that has been his thrill.

>

>Now that all the siblings are grown and only return home en masse at

>Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other little gifts when we are

>together - just because we are together. Usually this is something handmade

>or a specialty food only available where each one lives or the best - a new

>batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

>

>So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

>

>

>

>Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>

>

>

>

> >From: " brigid sullivan "

> >Reply-To:

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: not getting a dx..cause ??

> >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:27:13 -0600

> >

> >I sometimes wonder if the " Trauma " of their illnesses and all involved

>with

> >it doesn't have an impact on their diagnosis of " autism spectrum " . My son

> >Andy seemed to be developing normally for a child with Down syndrome

>until

> >he had his heart surgery which went terribly around 15 months.He went

> >through a terrible ordeal with it..needing to be " revived " several times

> >during and after surgery, getting a staph aurous infection and being cut

> >open without any anesthesia 7 days after his surgery. And healing from

>the

> >inside out as he was never stitched up again. His behavior completely

> >changed after surgery. From his perspective it must have seemed like

>child

> >abuse...and I was helping. I regret how I handled it all ..now 23 years

> >ago. I wanted to be with him at all times and now I wonder what he

>through

> >about that. Like why are you letting them do this to me mommy? He was and

> >is still a very loving fellow, but with all of the markers of autism.

> >Little speech.(much of it echolalia) Takes our hand,and brings us to what

> >he wants. Lines up his " toys " (things) Very upset if a change in routine.

>Of

> >course others would say that autism may just be starting to show at

>around

> >14 months...but I always associate it with his surgery.

> >Brigid

> > not getting a dx

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So why is it so many " professionals " do not want to recognize or

> > admit

> > > > there may be more than just DS? It seems to me that that attitude is

> > > > not very professional! At our IEP, they just keep saying how

> > Angie is

> > > > just very low functioning and not testable and it seems lots of

> > > > parents hear this. Isn't autism more than just social " delays " ? I

> > > > thought autism included behaviors like spinning, flicking, dropping

> > > > etc. And most parents with a DS child report this these autistic

> > type

> > > > of behaviors, so why are these DS kids not getting a dual dx? I am

> > > > confused I guess. I know it is more than just a label, but, in some

> > > > cases, you need that label, if you know what I mean. We're going to

> > > > see a neuro in a couple weeks. What kind of data can I bring to

> > him on

> > > > the dual dx? I hear he specializes in DS, so, perhands he'd be aware

> > > > of the dual dx?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

We are talking about it - I have finally got him to stop with the MERY XMAS

- HO_HO_HO. He is now saying Happy Hanuka,and Merry Xmas to all.

Elie is signing cards to all his classmates, teachers, and bus driver (2 a

day) and I have knitted gifts for him to give everyone - as we want people

to be warm at the winter holidays.

i am not opposed to anyones holiday. The more the merrier. I do object to

children being taught that they deserve to be gifted. We have tried to

teach our children to GIVE GIFTS to others - and I mean people with less

than they have day to day. Elie goes to the Community Helping Place with us

to take food and clothes. To me this is much more important.

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>From: smilinggail@...

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:07:53 EST

>

>

>Sara,

>

>Would Elie understand, and not be confused, if you told him that some

>people believe *Santa* is God's helper and that it has nothing to do with

>material

>gifts and that it has to do with helping other people? I think it's

>wonderful that Elie is aware of the different holiday. He has grown so

>much.

>Gail :-)

>

>Now here is a problem I have not had before. This year Elie suddenly

>realizes that there is a Santa as something more than a song one sings.

>He

>keeps telling me that Santa brings presents. His class is going tomorrow

>to

> " visit Santa " . My inclination is to keep him home. This is not our

>holiday

>. Normally, I would protest anyone going - what part of school and in

>whose

>IEP is THAT???? But this teacher is so geat with Elie, that I really

>don't

>want to rain on her parade over Santa - but I also do not want Elie to be

>part of the Snata myth.

>

>Well, Santa is not in our house. We celebrate Hanukah - and that has

>NOTHING to do with presents. We donot have a Hanukah bush, sing songs that

>sound like Xmas songs but call them Hanukah melodies - none of that.

>With

>our now grown children, we did give little token gifts on each night of

>the

>holiday - things like candy money to play Hannukah games, their own Hanuka

>menorah, a book of movie tickets - something small as that is not the

>reason

>for this season!!!

>

>Elie has never recognized any of this except that he always has had his

>own

>candles which he is permitted to blow out - as that has been his thrill.

>

>Now that all the siblings are grown and only return home en masse at

>Thanksgiving, we have taken to giving each other little gifts when we are

>together - just because we are together. Usually this is something

>handmade

>or a specialty food only available where each one lives or the best - a

>new

>batch of pix of each of them in their lives.

>

>So now, any ideas on how to handle this?

>

>

>

>Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Decision made: Elie is not going to school tomorrow. The trip is to the

middle school where the principal is playing Santa and giving gifts.

My objections too numerous to count but start with:A. IN

SCHOOL????Especially where we have removed arts and recess for more direct

instruction.

B> Middle school kids are really too old for this (imho) I know there are

some really poverty stricken families in our county, but I do not think

school is the place to give out gifts thru Santa.

C. The school is sponsoring this?????

D> I know I have moved south and that to many people here this holiday is

more important than voting, but still - in the school????

E. It is not the teacher's fault. She was told to bring her kids to this

celebration. Elie graduates this year. Some other parent will have to tilt

this windmill. I am too tired.

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>From: stamtorch@...

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:18:54 EST

>

>

>In a message dated 12/11/2006 12:10:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

>absull@... writes:

>

>. You can explain to him that it is a

>tradition and a myth(if he can understand that).

>

>

>Just to clarify, Santa is a secular version of St. who was a holy

>and generous " real " man. He did in fact live and bestow gifts on the less

>fortunate. If anyone is interested I would be happy to share how this

>Santa

>character came about but he does stem from a wonderful person who did

>indeed

>live.

>

>That said, while Christmas is unbelievably secularized, it does in fact

>have

>everything to do with the birth of Jesus. It is a very holy time for

>many

>of us. It saddens me to see what others make of it but do not mistake the

>secular celebration with the true religious one.

>I know many families who celebrate the birth of Christ without having Santa

>in the picture. We begin with Advent, 4 weeks prior to Dec. 25th and

>prepare our families to celebrate the day Christ was born. We may

>exchange gifts

>(many do that on St. 's feast day earlier in Dec or wait until the

>Epiphany of Jan 6th). We give gifts not to have more stuff but to imitate

>the

>generosity of Christ that began with the example set by St. .

>

>As to the school celebration of Santa, well, as I said it is not a

>religious

>one. When I was teaching the 5th grade students learned about Chanukah,

>and Kwanzaa. Then someone WAS going to talk about Santa as if that was

>the

>Christian celebration. I explained that Santa was not the reason for

>Christmas

>and ultimately, I was the one to talk to the students about what the

>Christmas celebration was about. Oddly enough the only complaint was that

>Christ was

>discussed????

>

>I am surprised that Santa is even allowed in schools these days. I would

>bet

>that other parents (non Christian and Christian) would object to the whole

>Santa thing. If it

>does bother you than I would say something. Explain that by going with

>the

>Santa idea the school is deliberately excluded others and even offending

>some! Of course, if this teacher is wonderful, as you say, she did not

>mean to

>exclude or offend. She just wanted to do something fun. Perhaps if they

>still go ahead with the visit you may wish to keep your child home. Or

>let him

>go with the understanding of how Santa came about in this country and that

>people all have different beliefs. This is not one of yours.

>God luck, these situations are not easy to deal with.

>

>Blessings, W

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<My objections too numerous to count but start with:A. IN

SCHOOL????Especially where we have removed arts and recess for more direct

instruction.>>

Sara, South Florida has a heavy Jewish population and the schools would never

dare even hang up Xmas decorations anymore...used to be they tried to accomodate

both but no longer. And I can't even imagine a school trip to see Santa; it

would make the headlines in our paper and someone's head would roll.

Sherry

(gotta go is requesting an old Barney CD-rom)

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for sharing that great history! I'm all for learning and I wasn't

aware of where the " x " came from. I do use it in posts as well as in chat

because it's quicker, but I don't use it out of disrespect.

Everyone,

We are all here to learn from each other and sadly, nit-picking over the use

of an " X " in Christmas, really, is the least of some of the issues I've seen

on this list. Don't we have larger things to worry about? I know I do and

I'm not going to get bent out of shape because of the way someone

abbreviated the word Christmas.

Spelling Xmas is not stereotyping any one or any thing. It's not dismissing

any religion or making it less important, so it really shouldn't offend

anyone. It's simply a different way of spelling Christmas. At least,

that's how I see it. It's not different than if someone named were

to shorten the spelling to Wm. We all know what it means. Xmas or

Christmas, in the end, it means the same thing.

Judi S.

Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

> At the risk of ticking some people off, there is nothing offensive about

the

> Xmas spelling, if you know where the X came from. It did not start out

as a

> way to cross out Christ from Christmas. X has long been a symbol of

Christs

> name.

> Europeans in the 16th century started using X in place of Christ's name

as

> shorthand for writing Christ. The Christian monks and scholars were

> knowledgeable of the Greek letter X, - Chi or Khi - which is the first

letter in the

> Greek word " Christos " or " Kristos " (Greek: CristoV) The Greek and Hebrew

word

> " Christos " comes out " Messiah " and mean the same thing: " The anointed

One. "

> For many years the X was understood by Christian clergy and as time

passed,

> many Christians, educated and not, were not aware of the meaning. Over

time the

> meaning became lost and was later of perceived as a sign disrespect.

> I guess it all depends on where you stand on the subject, but from my

point

> of view, *I* prefer spelling it out but am also not offended by someone

who

> does not.

>

> Blessings, W

> in CT

> homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

> (just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age

3,

> adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal

Alcohol

> Syndrome, SID )

[Guest guest]

OK this sounds like a really sick cliche but my best friend for 21 years is

Jewish and I love to have her explain all the traditions and holidays of the

Jewish faith. It is so wonderfully family oriented and she, like Sara, also

remarks every year how relatively unimportant in the scheme of true Jewish

celebrations Hanukah is. Now New year's and Passover and others are so rich in

tradition and ceremony. Unfortunately even after all these years I still have to

ask her every year...OK what's Purim again? and which one is the one where you

atone for the whole past year etc. Actually I just like to hear her tell the

stories. I was raised with no religion whatsoever so I have enormous respect for

real followers of their faith.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

kudos!! well said!! shawna

[Guest guest]

It is really funny how distressed this Santa thing haas made me. I had told

the teacher that I no longer got upset if Elie came home with red and green

decorations - we could cope. When my grown children were small, I told them

that we didn't make Xmas trees, wreaths, etc- that these were not

appropriate for our house. But I thought I had mellowed since Elie " really

didn't know the difference " . HA - HA - he knows there is a difference, and

if let to make a choice, he would be Santa Claus and red and green.

So perforce, I am making a bigger deal over Hanukah than my inclination

would be.

And after the blast I got from some one on this list about Xmas - I am

remind again that Hanukah is all about assimilation (thus losing ones

identity) and religious freedom - you do your thing and i will do mine and

we will be understanding of each person's view of the world.

How can we expect the world to accept our children as they are, if we cannot

accept each other as we are??

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: Re: Xmas is a coming - but so is Hanukah

>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 23:34:00 -0500

>

>OK this sounds like a really sick cliche but my best friend for 21 years is

>Jewish and I love to have her explain all the traditions and holidays of

>the Jewish faith. It is so wonderfully family oriented and she, like Sara,

>also remarks every year how relatively unimportant in the scheme of true

>Jewish celebrations Hanukah is. Now New year's and Passover and others are

>so rich in tradition and ceremony. Unfortunately even after all these years

>I still have to ask her every year...OK what's Purim again? and which one

>is the one where you atone for the whole past year etc. Actually I just

>like to hear her tell the stories. I was raised with no religion whatsoever

>so I have enormous respect for real followers of their faith.

>Sherry

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Pete has gone to our local JCC summer camp for years now (Jewsih

Community Center, y'all) and this is the one summer camp in my area

that accepts even the most challenging kids. They have pretty well

trained staff, and always loads of youmg men as junior counselors, so

Pete has always had good peer models around him all summer long.

Now, for most of the typical campers, there has been a lot of Judaica

that is part of the themes, programs, etc. But for the kids with

special needs who haven't been mainstreamed, I felt sad as they began

to drop out more of the Hebrew songs and some of the Shabbat customs,

etc., than when we first started out with them 8 years ago. I was

proud of the fact the Pete would attempt to sing as much as he could

imitate. I know they have challah for Shabbat, but beyond that, about

all he came home singing was " Shabbat, shalom, HEY! " It was actually

pretty cute, and when we attended a friend of his' Bar Mitzvah (this

is a young man with autism) we were very honored to share this special

day with the family and friends. Later on, a few folks came up to us

and said " I didn't realize you were Jewish " . Well, I certainly feel

that Judaism is part of my spiritual ancestry.

But I know what you mean about the issues involved here. You are SO

right about just the issue of going to see Santa. Just not

appropriate at this age!

And then the other horn of the dilemma- I just busted out laughing

when I read moments ago that Elie was determined to go see Santa

today, no matter what. What I love about it is that he knows what he

wants and he is making his decisions known. He has a plan of action!

How cool is that??

Pete is also gaining more understanding of things that were

meaningless in past years. Santa is gaining more weight (sorry bad

pun) is his eyes, and there is no way I can explain to him about the

fairy tale part of it. St. he would " get " maybe as a saint.

He seems to understand about Christmas - the Nativity. But then, we

always emphasized that.

I get burned up when folks at school urge him to cheer for major

professional sports teams that are not " our " family's favorites.

It's just weird- it's like you have to undo the wrong input. And like

Elie, Pete could go on and on repeating the same thing forever, and

then people think that we all love those teams. Pete will cheer for

everybody!

Lovely and lively exchange, everyone. I think it is wonderful that we

can discuss this stuff.

God Bless Us, Every One!

Beth Mum ot Pete (aka Ben) age 16 central Ohio (GO BUCKS!)

>

> It is really funny how distressed this Santa thing haas made me. I

had told

> the teacher that I no longer got upset if Elie came home with red

and green

> decorations - we could cope. When my grown children were small, I

told them

> that we didn't make Xmas trees, wreaths, etc- that these were not

> appropriate for our house. But I thought I had mellowed since Elie

" really

> didn't know the difference " . HA - HA - he knows there is a

difference, and

> if let to make a choice, he would be Santa Claus and red and green.

>

> So perforce, I am making a bigger deal over Hanukah than my inclination

> would be.

>

> And after the blast I got from some one on this list about Xmas - I am

> remind again that Hanukah is all about assimilation (thus losing ones

> identity) and religious freedom - you do your thing and i will do

mine and

> we will be understanding of each person's view of the world.

>

> How can we expect the world to accept our children as they are, if

we cannot

> accept each other as we are??

>

>

>

> Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>

>

>

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>