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<< need to vent a little. Hope you guys don't mind. =(>>

I for one don't mind at all. This is what's going on with too the past few

weeks and it's driving me nuts. I'm feeling for ya!

Sherry

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Hi Liz,

I share your frustration. Zeb has not had the best week at school. Did the

school show you the behavior data sheets? It may give you a better look as to

what she is doing, times etc during what activites to help you with answers to

work out a solution. It's not always meds.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 13 DS/OCD/ASD?

Liz D wrote:

I need to vent a little. Hope you guys don't mind. =(

I received a call today from the school nurse at Tori's school. Apparently, her

behaviors have increased to a point where people are really noticing them. I

stopped by there after work, and spoke with her T/A and the IU coordinator. She

has become more aggressive, and is doing ALOT of stop-drop-flop. Is also

becoming more non-compliant. What the heck??? They said they have seen the

changes happening over the past few weeks, this week only getting more intense.

I first thought it was because of the 1/2 days, and time off for Turkey Day, but

they said this started about 2 weeks prior. I just emailed her Dev. Ped.-don't

know what to do.

Liz

" Success manifests in small daily events, not only in accomplishing great

things " - Remez Sasson

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Hi Liz,

I share your frustration. Zeb has not had the best week at school. Did the

school show you the behavior data sheets? It may give you a better look as to

what she is doing, times etc during what activites to help you with answers to

work out a solution. It's not always meds.

Charlyne

Mom to Zeb 13 DS/OCD/ASD?

Liz D wrote:

I need to vent a little. Hope you guys don't mind. =(

I received a call today from the school nurse at Tori's school. Apparently, her

behaviors have increased to a point where people are really noticing them. I

stopped by there after work, and spoke with her T/A and the IU coordinator. She

has become more aggressive, and is doing ALOT of stop-drop-flop. Is also

becoming more non-compliant. What the heck??? They said they have seen the

changes happening over the past few weeks, this week only getting more intense.

I first thought it was because of the 1/2 days, and time off for Turkey Day, but

they said this started about 2 weeks prior. I just emailed her Dev. Ped.-don't

know what to do.

Liz

" Success manifests in small daily events, not only in accomplishing great

things " - Remez Sasson

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Hi Everyone,

Not meaning to sound dumb, but what is a behavior data sheet? I can't

get Janie's teacher to communicate with me about her behavior. She

claims she can only record her aggressive behaviors for a 10 minute

time period each day. I never get the 10 minute reports even. It is

really important to know what her behavior is doing while we are

trying new meds to find out if they have a positive effect or not.

Her behavior at home doesn't tell much because the aggression comes

out much more around her peers. Any suggetions where I start getting

the feedback I need so I can pass it on to the docs? Also, I am

really unhappy with the whole classroom setup because Janie does not

have a one-on-one aide and I really believe she would learn better

with someone who could draw her out. I haven't even been able to find

out if she is getting OT and she isn't able to hold a pencil right so

how can she write? I can get a referral for OT elsewhere, but she

should be getting some at school. Her K-1st grade teacher was so

helpful I am really distressed about this year's situation. Our

district has different schools designated for different grades for

high needs classes. Can I make the district pay for a different

school? Who would I contact about this? Sorry to whine. You all have

such good ideas and experiences to share. Thanks!

P. (Mom of Janie 7 DS/PDD-NOS/ADHD and Katelyn 10 ADHD/ODD)

> I need to vent a little. Hope you guys don't mind. =(

>

> I received a call today from the school nurse at Tori's school.

Apparently, her behaviors have increased to a point where people are

really noticing them. I stopped by there after work, and spoke with

her T/A and the IU coordinator. She has become more aggressive, and

is doing ALOT of stop-drop-flop. Is also becoming more non-compliant.

What the heck??? They said they have seen the changes happening over

the past few weeks, this week only getting more intense. I first

thought it was because of the 1/2 days, and time off for Turkey Day,

but they said this started about 2 weeks prior. I just emailed her

Dev. Ped.-don't know what to do.

>

> Liz

>

> " Success manifests in small daily events, not only in accomplishing

great things " - Remez Sasson

>

>

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vent away!! we are all here for you!! I know how you feel!!! nicholas was

hospitalized again, thankfully for only 3days this time, DH and nathan both

spent a day puking, and i had to miss more work, christmas is looking pretty

thin around here :(, at least my boys seem to understand and are more than happy

to receive evne only 1 gift, but they will each get around 3-5. dvd's are

inexspensive and using DH's bonus for the more expsensive gifts, they each get

one. shawna

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In a message dated 12/1/2006 11:58:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

absull@... writes:

Many Drs and professionals do not want to see a child who has Down syndrome

as a " dually diagnosed " child.

Our geneticist doesn't seem to have an issue with this. Obviously genetic

tests confirmed what we know re: Down's Syndrome but he was the one who put

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome down on paper for us. From what I understand, from

others, is so difficult to get DR's to confirm that diagnosis.

We recently went to see him and now he has said he sees autistic tendencies

in her. He put it under the umbrella of Pervasive Developmental Spectrum

Disorder.

Blessings, W

in CT

homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

(just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age 3,

adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol

Syndrome, SID, PDSD )

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Hi all I need to express my frusturation. I feel lost right now and I know that

some of you can give me some good advice. Has anyone ever heard of Dr.

McGreevy, Certified Behavior Analyst? He is out of Orlando. Well he came into

my daughters classroom yesterday to observe all the students and to give the

teachers some insight. I was told by her teacher that Dr. McGreevy does not see

Autism in Haylee! Im not saying I want my child to be Autistic, I just want a

proper diagnosis so that we can have " closure " . My daughter does not do the

things that other Downs children do. I see more Autistic behavior. She is so

low functioning also. My daughters ABA therapist have actually gone to Dr.

McGreevys seminars and they see Autism in Haylee. My daughter was diagnosed

with this last April by a Dr. Hagerott, Ph.D, LIcensed Psychologist,

Clinical Neuropsychologist in Pensacola. I felt this woman really knew her

stuff so I called her office to let them know whats going on and to see what she

had to say. I really dont think she would remember Haylee but I just had to

call. I guess I was hoping that this Dr. McGreevy would confirm this also, I

heard lots of great things about him. What do you all think? Her teacher keeps

telling me to get involved with a Downs Support Group, but I actually know a few

people that have Downs children and they are nothing like Haylee, they are doing

so much more. Thanks for your time :)

Re: Here we go again...

vent away!! we are all here for you!! I know how you feel!!! nicholas was

hospitalized again, thankfully for only 3days this time, DH and nathan both

spent a day puking, and i had to miss more work, christmas is looking pretty

thin around here :(, at least my boys seem to understand and are more than

happy

to receive evne only 1 gift, but they will each get around 3-5. dvd's are

inexspensive and using DH's bonus for the more expsensive gifts, they each get

one. shawna

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In my experience kids who have Down syndrome are usually diagnosed much later.

In my own daughters case, it was at 13 years of age. I knew that she was on the

spectrum at around 3....it took that long to get someone to agree with me. I

didn't push that hard until I felt she needed additional services.Many Drs and

professionals do not want to see a child who has Down syndrome as a " dually

diagnosed " child. Don't let them " push you around " , you know your child better

than anyone. They can't " write off " the original Doctor's official diagnosis..

good luck.

Brigid

Re: Here we go again...

vent away!! we are all here for you!! I know how you feel!!! nicholas was

hospitalized again, thankfully for only 3days this time, DH and nathan both

spent a day puking, and i had to miss more work, christmas is looking pretty

thin around here :(, at least my boys seem to understand and are more than

happy

to receive evne only 1 gift, but they will each get around 3-5. dvd's are

inexspensive and using DH's bonus for the more expsensive gifts, they each get

one. shawna

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Well Haylee turned Five in August, I didnt suspect anything until about 4yrs. I

just thought she was really, really slow and would eventually catch on, maybe

shes just really low functioning. Who knows, its all frusturating and it doesnt

really get to me until someone outside the family starts questioning it. Thanks

for your time.

Re: Here we go again...

vent away!! we are all here for you!! I know how you feel!!! nicholas was

hospitalized again, thankfully for only 3days this time, DH and nathan both

spent a day puking, and i had to miss more work, christmas is looking pretty

thin around here :(, at least my boys seem to understand and are more than

happy

to receive evne only 1 gift, but they will each get around 3-5. dvd's are

inexspensive and using DH's bonus for the more expsensive gifts, they each get

one. shawna

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, I don’t know about Dr McGreevy. Did you get a feel if the

school was going to change anything they were currently doing since you

already have the autism diagnosis from a psychologist? If nothing is

changing and Haylee’s ABA therapists are working with her on what she

needs from recommendations of the psychologist, who gave her the autism

diagnosis, I wouldn’t be as concerned by Dr G’s comments. Remember he

only saw her for a short time. I think that was a good idea for you to

contact the psychologist that did test her, to get her input. Keep in

mind if there are any comments from the school about changing anything

you can ask Haylee’s doctor to write a note to the school to impress on

them the need to follow her recommendations.

We went through a similar situation when was diagnosed with autism

three years ago at age 41. I chose a psychologist I had worked with and

knew was considered a good diagnostician, who signed and understood

deafness. Within a month of observing him he began to question if

anyone had ever mentioned that had autism. After additional

observations at his home and vocational program where he talked with his

staff at both places and did testing with he did give the autism

diagnosis. Then other medical doctors did not agree with the diagnosis

but did agree with the recommendations. At that time we arranged for

to have an evaluation with a clinician whose expertise was in

deafness and autism. She agreed with the psychologist. So we decided

it didn’t matter what we called it if all agreed this is how

responded to others and his environment and these are the strategies to

use to help him that is what we would do.

For being an adult the strategies were the most important. For you

though having to deal with the school district you have the diagnosis

and that should be sufficient to get the services Haylee requires. From

listening over the years to what others on the list have said and what

they had to go through with the school districts that is not always the

case. No matter if a child and in school or an adult with adult

services we always have to vigilant to advocate for the services they

need.

Hang in there, take a deep breath, and tomorrow will be another day.

Louise, Mom to 44, DS, Deaf, ASD in IL

Re: Here we go again...

Hi all I need to express my frusturation. I feel lost right now and I

know that some of you can give me some good advice. Has anyone ever

heard of Dr. McGreevy, Certified Behavior Analyst? He is out of

Orlando. Well he came into my daughters classroom yesterday to observe

all the students and to give the teachers some insight. I was told by

her teacher that Dr. McGreevy does not see Autism in Haylee! Im not

saying I want my child to be Autistic, I just want a proper diagnosis so

that we can have " closure " . My daughter does not do the things that

other Downs children do. I see more Autistic behavior. She is so low

functioning also. My daughters ABA therapist have actually gone to Dr.

McGreevys seminars and they see Autism in Haylee. My daughter was

diagnosed with this last April by a Dr. Hagerott, Ph.D, LIcensed

Psychologist, Clinical Neuropsychologist in Pensacola. I felt this woman

really knew her stuff so I called her office to let them know whats

going on and to see what she had to say. I really dont think she would

remember Haylee but I just had to call. I guess I was hoping that this

Dr. McGreevy would confirm this also, I heard lots of great things about

him. What do you all think? Her teacher keeps telling me to get involved

with a Downs Support Group, but I actually know a few people that have

Downs children and they are nothing like Haylee, they are doing so much

more. Thanks for your time :)

--

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Hi all--

I agree with you, Charlyne, if behaviors are increasing it would be

helpful to know WHAT is happening before (antecedent) and what is

coming after (consequence) the behaviors. If the school or district

has a Behavior Specialist then that would be the person to talk to

about setting up a Functional Analysis Assessment (the assessment that

comes before a behavior plan is set up). It really helps to put your

requests in writing and submit them to the special ed. director. If a

behavior plan is already in place then the teacher should know how to

collect the data needed. If she doesn't then she/he should go back to

the person who helped set up the behavior plan in the first place for

direction.

BUT I agree, it is SO frustrating when you are only told of their

frustrations after several weeks. It makes you feel like you should

have known, like a bad mom. None of us are bad moms. We care deeply

and look high and low for help with our special little (or not so

little) ones. BUT we can only rely on the information we are given.

If they don't tell you that's THEIR fault, not yours. And it will

take about as much time to address the issue as it would have if they

had told you at the onset of the problem instead of waiting until they

were frustrated.

, is OT in Janie's IEP? If not, you need to ask for an OT

assesment, again in writing. If OT is in her IEP then the school is

in non-compliance and you are within your rights to file a compliance

complaint with the state. Help yourself to ask for information in

wrting with a copy sent to the sp.ed. dir. and to yourself, so you can

prove when you asked if you need to. You can certainly ask that

reporting practices be included in the IEP, exactly how you want them

to report to you and how frequently.

Even if they don't have data collection sheets you can request in

writing, with a copy to the sped. dir., that they write down the

behavior they are concerned about (observations-not speculation about

what the child is thinking), what time of day it occurred, what was

happening before it occurred and with whom, what happened after it

occurred, how many times the behavior occurred (frequency), how long

the behavior lasted (duration) and what seemed to reason for the

behavior (escape, attention, etc.). This is the information a behavior

specialist needs to analyze the behaviors. It will also give you a

pro-active way to take charge of the situation and lead your child's

classroom teacher/aides to a positive solution. Of course, everyone

wants the behavior fixed NOW, but that's unrealistic.;)

- Another thought: If Dr. McGreevy is a Board Certified

Behavior Analyst,what is he doing diagnosing or making comments like

that about your child? Sounds pretty irresponsible to me. Use a good

old behavior modification technique on him: planned ignoring - just

ignore him. Unless, of course, it makes any difference in the

services your child receives, then I might print out Glen

Vatter's " diagnosis of autism in children with down syndrome " and go

and hand it to him and ask him to read it before you address this

issue at a later time with him. Just know that you are not going to

change every doctors previous prejudices against certain diagnoses.

You already have a diagnosis with the other doctor - you can't nullify

that. One diagnosis doesn't somehow " trump " another in this

instance.

Don't let the school back you into doing their job for them - it is

their responsibility to let you know what is happening, what needs to

happen for your child to participate in their class. Ask them, " What

do you want to do about this situation? " and put it back into their

court. If you agree with what they plan, then encourage them. If you

don't agree, let them know they need to come up with a better plan.

You are PART of the team. Make them do their jobs or make them ask

for help from their higher ups. Just monitor their progress.

Thanks for all the support YOU give ME!

Hugs-

Donnell (mom to DJ-age 11)

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Thanks Louise! I dont think anything will change as far as how everyone is

working with Haylee and meeting her needs. It doesnt change anything, I

just dont like the fact that one person says one thing and I feel like now

her teacher doesnt think Haylee has Autism. As long as Haylee is taught the

best way that she can handle then there is no problem. Its just hard to

deal with people doubting what you believe is the case with your own child.

Thanks again.

Re: Here we go again...

Hi all I need to express my frusturation. I feel lost right now and I

know that some of you can give me some good advice. Has anyone ever

heard of Dr. McGreevy, Certified Behavior Analyst? He is out of

Orlando. Well he came into my daughters classroom yesterday to observe

all the students and to give the teachers some insight. I was told by

her teacher that Dr. McGreevy does not see Autism in Haylee! Im not

saying I want my child to be Autistic, I just want a proper diagnosis so

that we can have " closure " . My daughter does not do the things that

other Downs children do. I see more Autistic behavior. She is so low

functioning also. My daughters ABA therapist have actually gone to Dr.

McGreevys seminars and they see Autism in Haylee. My daughter was

diagnosed with this last April by a Dr. Hagerott, Ph.D, LIcensed

Psychologist, Clinical Neuropsychologist in Pensacola. I felt this woman

really knew her stuff so I called her office to let them know whats

going on and to see what she had to say. I really dont think she would

remember Haylee but I just had to call. I guess I was hoping that this

Dr. McGreevy would confirm this also, I heard lots of great things about

him. What do you all think? Her teacher keeps telling me to get involved

with a Downs Support Group, but I actually know a few people that have

Downs children and they are nothing like Haylee, they are doing so much

more. Thanks for your time :)

--

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Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.3/562 - Release Date:

12/1/2006 1:12 PM

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Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.3/562 - Release Date:

12/1/2006 1:12 PM

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We are also seeing a great increase in behaviors over the last month.

Wonder if it is the weird weaather with strange barometric drops?? PA and

GA and Maine and NY and Mich - to name a few I have heard about have had

very unseasonable weather with different barometer readings.

I am beginning to think about a new psych eval if things aren't better

before the Xmas break.

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: Here we go again...

>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:12:53 -0500

>

>I need to vent a little. Hope you guys don't mind. =(

>

>I received a call today from the school nurse at Tori's school.

>Apparently, her behaviors have increased to a point where people are really

>noticing them. I stopped by there after work, and spoke with her T/A and

>the IU coordinator. She has become more aggressive, and is doing ALOT of

>stop-drop-flop. Is also becoming more non-compliant. What the heck???

>They said they have seen the changes happening over the past few weeks,

>this week only getting more intense. I first thought it was because of the

>1/2 days, and time off for Turkey Day, but they said this started about 2

>weeks prior. I just emailed her Dev. Ped.-don't know what to do.

>

>Liz

>

> " Success manifests in small daily events, not only in accomplishing great

>things " - Remez Sasson

>

>

>

>

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I find it hard to get a " firm " dx as well. had her IEP Tuesday

this week and 1/2 of the people there, her ABA therapist came too,

thought she had the dual dx and the other 1/2, OT and ST thought she

did not have it. Their reasoning is that she is not testable. Another

psych told us this as well. BUT, an Autism clinic told us she was. We

have an appt Dec 18th with a neuro in hopes of clearing this up. I

would think that if the group you saw has said she's autistic, I'd

stay with that. Is it written into her IEP?

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Re: Here we go again...

I find it hard to get a " firm " dx as well. had her IEP Tuesday

this week and 1/2 of the people there, her ABA therapist came too,

thought she had the dual dx and the other 1/2, OT and ST thought she

did not have it. Their reasoning is that she is not testable. Another

psych told us this as well. BUT, an Autism clinic told us she was. We

have an appt Dec 18th with a neuro in hopes of clearing this up. I

would think that if the group you saw has said she's autistic, I'd

stay with that. Is it written into her IEP?

----------------------------------------------------------

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,

We first started out with the " tendencies " statement. As Jake got older, the

tendencies became more noticeable (he was not growing out of it), and after he

started school, etc the psychologist went with writing down his " quirks " and

then the next eval, he gave us the PDD diagnosis. I had had such a hard time

with schools not believing that he could be autistic that we went the route of

having Autism Center at Kennedy Krieger do he eval and now we feel very

confident when anyone questions. However Jake is now 7 1/2 and our official (as

I call it) diagnosis didn't come until about a year and a half ago. I know you

want to know for sure now, but the psychologist have all told us that it just

gets more obvious as they kids grow up and have the chance to learn and expand

themselves. That is why they say it is easier to diagnosis when the kids get a

little older.

Just my two cents.

Holly

Re: Here we go again...

In a message dated 12/1/2006 11:58:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

absull@... writes:

Many Drs and professionals do not want to see a child who has Down syndrome

as a " dually diagnosed " child.

Our geneticist doesn't seem to have an issue with this. Obviously genetic

tests confirmed what we know re: Down's Syndrome but he was the one who put

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome down on paper for us. From what I understand, from

others, is so difficult to get DR's to confirm that diagnosis.

We recently went to see him and now he has said he sees autistic tendencies

in her. He put it under the umbrella of Pervasive Developmental Spectrum

Disorder.

Blessings, W

in CT

homeschooling mom to AJ (12), (8), ^l^,

(just turned 5, Trisomy 18 mosaic aka syndrome) and Birgitta (age 3,

adoption finalized 2/1/05 !!, Trisomy 21 aka Down's Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol

Syndrome, SID, PDSD )

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I can't believe that even an expert can diagnosis after just a little

observation in a classroom. We went through OT, OT and speech evals that lasted

2 hours with lots of communications between us and the evaluator. Then we met

with the big wig and with all this information they agreed with a PDDdiagnosis.

I think it is irresponsible for him to even voice his option with out all the

facts in hand. Again, just my two cents.

Holly

Re: Here we go again...

vent away!! we are all here for you!! I know how you feel!!! nicholas was

hospitalized again, thankfully for only 3days this time, DH and nathan both

spent a day puking, and i had to miss more work, christmas is looking pretty

thin around here :(, at least my boys seem to understand and are more than

happy

to receive evne only 1 gift, but they will each get around 3-5. dvd's are

inexspensive and using DH's bonus for the more expsensive gifts, they each get

one. shawna

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