Re: What I found out....

[Guest guest]

I'm very interested in this Judi. Please do keep me posted.

Thanks,

Gail :-)

For those that wish, I can keep you posted. Whether or not our children are

in inclusion, this is a situation we all need to be aware of.

Judi

[Guest guest]

We have two places that I sign, one is the attendance and on the attendance

sheet and there is also a separate place where if I do not agree with the

IEP there is a place on that page for me to sign. Then on the Prior

Notice/Consent page of the IEP is where I sign that I give consent to

implement the IEP and placement.

-- What I found out....

Question for everyone....

How many of you with IEP's for your children, have ever been told that the

signature page that signifies ATTENDANCE will be also used to signify

AGREEMENT? Or... how many of you have been told that " there doesn't need to

be a signature page for team agreement. " ? Seems to me, that this is an

issue for me. Quite possibly, this will become a nationwide issue, because

most LEA's don't know what the laws are surrounding this sort of thing. I

was initially told that we would use the SAME page for BOTH purposes.

Three " professional educators " today, in my child's school, did not have an

answer to this situation. Sad, very sad. Aren't they supposed to know the

procedures regarding IEP's?

I made some phone calls today and ended up talking to someone down in

Washington DC about this very issue. I spoke to an Education specialist with

Congressman Platts office. The woman seems to take the position that a

signature page for agreement, is required - this ensures that the IEP is

properly implemented and enforceable. After spending a significant amount of

time with the person on the phone, she is going to get some research done to

see if there is any provision anywhere in IDEA that calls for the signatures

of all IEP team members to sign an acknowledgement of agreement. I also said

to her, if there isn't any provision, then this makes every single IEP in

the United States null and void because of the lack of an agreement

signature page. I also said to her that if this proves to be the case, then

our legislators need to call an emergency session to make an amendment to

IDEA to have this requirement implemented into IDEA. From my understanding,

an IEP is a Legally binding " contract " . So, going on this - anytime someone

has a legally binding contract for whatever, it's usually signed, thus

making it legal. No agreement signature for and IEP makes the contents of

the IEP null and void.

I am having this issue with my child's school. I have been told that there

is NO signature page for agreement and that there isn't one needed. What an

insult. The woman in Congressman's Platts office in DC is sending me copies

of the 2004 CFR as well as a copy of IDEA itself. I have a formal IEP

meeting scheduled for November 1st. I plan on letting them know that they

are in violation of IDEA regulations and that everyone MUST sign a signature

page indicating agreement with my child's IEP. The School District will also

be hearing about this as well.

For those that wish, I can keep you posted. Whether or not our children are

in inclusion, this is a situation we all need to be aware of.

Judi

[Guest guest]

Because this issue arises again and again (I've been in 3 states and 5

school districts) and no one seems to agree on this issue. Therefore, I

NEVER sign ANYTHING - even that I am present- until I have approved the IEP

and placement. Inconvenient for the sd - yes. Do I really care- NO!

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: Re: What I found out....

>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:01:21 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)

>

>We have two places that I sign, one is the attendance and on the attendance

>sheet and there is also a separate place where if I do not agree with the

>IEP there is a place on that page for me to sign. Then on the Prior

>Notice/Consent page of the IEP is where I sign that I give consent to

>implement the IEP and placement.

>

>

>

>-- What I found out....

>

>

>

>Question for everyone....

>

>

>

>How many of you with IEP's for your children, have ever been told that the

>signature page that signifies ATTENDANCE will be also used to signify

>AGREEMENT? Or... how many of you have been told that " there doesn't need to

>be a signature page for team agreement. " ? Seems to me, that this is an

>issue for me. Quite possibly, this will become a nationwide issue, because

>most LEA's don't know what the laws are surrounding this sort of thing. I

>was initially told that we would use the SAME page for BOTH purposes.

>

>

>

>Three " professional educators " today, in my child's school, did not have an

>answer to this situation. Sad, very sad. Aren't they supposed to know the

>procedures regarding IEP's?

>

>

>

>I made some phone calls today and ended up talking to someone down in

>Washington DC about this very issue. I spoke to an Education specialist

>with

>Congressman Platts office. The woman seems to take the position that a

>signature page for agreement, is required - this ensures that the IEP is

>properly implemented and enforceable. After spending a significant amount

>of

>time with the person on the phone, she is going to get some research done

>to

>see if there is any provision anywhere in IDEA that calls for the

>signatures

>of all IEP team members to sign an acknowledgement of agreement. I also

>said

>to her, if there isn't any provision, then this makes every single IEP in

>the United States null and void because of the lack of an agreement

>signature page. I also said to her that if this proves to be the case, then

>our legislators need to call an emergency session to make an amendment to

>IDEA to have this requirement implemented into IDEA. From my understanding,

>an IEP is a Legally binding " contract " . So, going on this - anytime someone

>has a legally binding contract for whatever, it's usually signed, thus

>making it legal. No agreement signature for and IEP makes the contents of

>the IEP null and void.

>

>

>

>I am having this issue with my child's school. I have been told that there

>is NO signature page for agreement and that there isn't one needed. What an

>insult. The woman in Congressman's Platts office in DC is sending me copies

>of the 2004 CFR as well as a copy of IDEA itself. I have a formal IEP

>meeting scheduled for November 1st. I plan on letting them know that they

>are in violation of IDEA regulations and that everyone MUST sign a

>signature

>page indicating agreement with my child's IEP. The School District will

>also

>be hearing about this as well.

>

>

>

>For those that wish, I can keep you posted. Whether or not our children are

>in inclusion, this is a situation we all need to be aware of.

>

>

>

>Judi

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/19/2006 8:58:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jams1995@... writes:

And the fact that my school district does not require

signatures of this kind, really makes my blood boil.

check this site out and see if it helps you any.

_http://64.233.161.104/custom?q=cache:WjL-LV-OfJsJ:www.wrightslaw.com/idea/law

/idea.regs.subpartd.pdf+can+an+IEP+be+implemented+without+parent+consent%3F & hl

=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=7 & client=pub-4630897488592702

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

_

(http://64.233.161.104/custom?q=cache:WjL-LV-OfJsJ:www.wrightslaw.com/idea/law/i\

dea.regs.subpartd.pdf+can+an+IEP+be+implemented+without+parent+consent? & hl

=en & gl=us & ct=clnk & cd=7 & client=pub-4630897488592702)

[Guest guest]

Judi,

to be honest, even if you did have a signature requirement in place that

still would not mean the IEP would always be followed. As for a signature page

I have always had to sign not only that we attended the meeting but that I

agree to implementing the IEP or placement. But an IEP is a binding legal

document and I guess you could apply the same rule as the verbal contracts

except

that you do have it in writing. I know when I refuse to sign the IEP for

various reasons in the past, they would get worried and I have had them go so

far as emotional blackmail to try and get me to sign them.

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

[Guest guest]

Well, I received an email from the woman that I spoke with in DC today. She

did some research and there isn't anything anywhere either in IDEA or the

CFR that specifically states that team members or parents MUST sign an

agreement sheet indicating they either agree or disagree with the contents

of the IEP. This is scary because by NOT having to sign anything other than

the attendance sheet, it pretty much leaves it up to the school to determine

whether or not they comply with the IEP. Serious accountability issues here

if you ask me. And the fact that my school district does not require

signatures of this kind, really makes my blood boil. I'm quite sure there

are other states that DO have a sheet that gets signed by parents and other

IEP team members to signify agreement (or disagreement), but so far, not

here and not on a federal level.

If someone knows more than I do and can specifically point out the

requirement for this within the contents of IDEA or the CFR, please let me

know. Thanks!

Judi

[Guest guest]

Carol,

Thank you for the link. I did a search on that and all of the relevant

wording was highlighted in the text provided. Unfortunately, where consent

is concerned, it only refers to the initial evaluation and the

re-evaluations. I didn't find anything about requiring all parties to sign

any sort of paper signifying agreement with the IEP.

I am going to contact Becky Braunstein in Congressman Platts DC office and

inquire about setting up a meeting with Mr. Platts. Once I have the meeting

scheduled, I plan on discussing with him, how an amendment can be made to

IDEA to reflect accountability for the school district by implementing some

form of acceptable signature sheet that would indicate either agreement or

disagreement of the IEP. If he agrees that an amendment should be made, I

would be more than willing to testify based on my own experience with this.

I honestly don't see why congress didn't see this sort of issue sooner,

given that IDEA IS a Federal Law. Furthermore, since an IEP becomes a

legally binding contract once it has been written, a signature page should

be signed signifying agreement or disagreement by the parent(s). If it

isn't, what reassurances does a parent in my situation have to really know

that the contents of the IEP are being implemented properly?

The reason why I'm making such a big deal out of this:

My daughter's IEP wasn't signed (for agreement purposes), by me or by anyone

else present at the annual meeting. I would have remembered if I did sign it

and I would have received a copy of it along with the IEP. I know some of

the things in her IEP are not being followed through with because I was told

so, this morning. Perfect example: She is supposed to use a slant board

for all writing assignments. This isn't being done except for in her

learning support classroom. That slant board improves her writing skills

and is an essential part of her IEP. That's why I asked for it to be

included on her IEP. It is supposed to be used ANY TIME she has to write

ANY THING. And this is exactly why I asked to see a signature page that

didn't have anything to do with attendance. They are not following through

with this part of her IEP. And if they aren't following through with this,

then that seriously makes me wonder what else that are out of compliance

with. When a signature page regarding agreement, couldn't be produced, I

started asking tougher questions as to why there wasn't one. No one had any

answers for me, other than, " let's talk to the Special Ed Director and find

out. " Well, after numerous messages to her via email and phone, I still

have no answer from her office or anyone else.

I know IDEA somewhat touches on consent for the initial evals and the

re-evals, but that's not what concerns me since it's already covered in

IDEA. What is not covered is this whole requirement of an additional

signature sheet signifying agreement, NOT attendance and that is what

concerns me. I think you all see the point I am trying to make, in that

without having this actually written into IDEA, there really is no way of

enforcing an IEP because it isn't " technically " required to be signed by a

parent. Too many times, the school district will attempt to reason with the

parents that in the interest of " time " or whatever, the attendance sheet,

should be used to signify agreement as well as attendance. A parent who

either doesn't understand what the law is, or who just wants to end a

stressful meeting, might just agree to that very thing. There is little

protection being offered to the child and the parents if the IEP isn't

signed the right way, with a clause or a statement reflecting what the

signatures are for. It's basically useless because without those

signatures, it doesn't mean a thing.

Judi

[Guest guest]

We've lived in two states and both have signature spaces for agreement,

partial rejection, or rejection. Even if your state doesn't have a

signature line, you can write a letter that states which parts of the

IEP you are agreeing to and which parts you are rejecting. That letter

would become part of the official record.

> Well, I received an email from the woman that I spoke with in DC

> today. She

> did some research and there isn't anything anywhere either in IDEA or

> the

> CFR that specifically states that team members or parents MUST sign an

> agreement sheet indicating they either agree or disagree with the

> contents

> of the IEP. This is scary because by NOT having to sign anything

> other than

> the attendance sheet, it pretty much leaves it up to the school to

> determine

> whether or not they comply with the IEP. Serious accountability

> issues here

> if you ask me. And the fact that my school district does not require

> signatures of this kind, really makes my blood boil. I'm quite sure

> there

> are other states that DO have a sheet that gets signed by parents and

> other

> IEP team members to signify agreement (or disagreement), but so far,

> not

> here and not on a federal level.

>

> If someone knows more than I do and can specifically point out the

> requirement for this within the contents of IDEA or the CFR, please

> let me

> know. Thanks!

>

> Judi

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and

> photos of our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other

> information by including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent

> record of the archives for our list.

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/

> --------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

Thank you very much for this. Can you email me privately? Thanks :-)

Judi

Re: What I found out....

> >>

> >>

> >>> Well, I received an email from the woman that I spoke with in DC

today.

> >>> She

> >>> did some research and there isn't anything anywhere either in IDEA or

> >>> the

> >>> CFR that specifically states that team members or parents MUST sign an

> >>> agreement sheet indicating they either agree or disagree with the

> >>> contents

> >>> of the IEP. This is scary because by NOT having to sign anything

other

> >>> than

> >>> the attendance sheet, it pretty much leaves it up to the school to

> >>> determine

> >>> whether or not they comply with the IEP. Serious accountability

issues

> >>> here

> >>> if you ask me. And the fact that my school district does not require

> >>> signatures of this kind, really makes my blood boil. I'm quite sure

> >>> there

> >>> are other states that DO have a sheet that gets signed by parents and

> >>> other

> >>> IEP team members to signify agreement (or disagreement), but so far,

not

> >>> here and not on a federal level.

> >>>

> >>> If someone knows more than I do and can specifically point out the

> >>> requirement for this within the contents of IDEA or the CFR, please

let

> >>> me

> >>> know. Thanks!

> >>>

> >>> Judi

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> --------------------------------------------------

> >>> Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and

photos

> >>> of our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

> >>> including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

> >>> archives for our list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/

> >>> --------------------------------------------

> >>>

[Guest guest]

I live in PA too, York County as well. ALL of Mark's IEP's have NOREPs,

even when he went to an RTF in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure why your school

district would be any different, but I thought it was a law in PA that

they needed one. I hired an attorney last year to go with me when Mark

returned home from the RTF in Pittsburgh and one of the things he

required me to send him were past NOREPs, which I signed each and every

year. This boggles my mind that your school district does not require

you to sign one each year, even if the IEP changes drastically or not.

If you want to call my attorney, I can give you his number. There is a

meeting next Tuesday night in York and representatives from the schools

will be there. It's a good source of free information if not anything

else for you. I hope you can make it. It's next Tuesday night at The

United Way on King St. at 6:30. Free child care and dinner will be provided.

[Guest guest]

A legally binding contract must have the signaatures of the people who are

able to agree. That means that a representative of the s/d, authorized to

represent the s/d needs to sign this agreement - as important as the

parent's agreement. Otherwise, it would be difficult to enforce the

contract. (as in impossible!!!)

Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons.

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: Re: What I found out....

>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:55:40 -0400

>

>Carol,

>Thank you for the link. I did a search on that and all of the relevant

>wording was highlighted in the text provided. Unfortunately, where consent

>is concerned, it only refers to the initial evaluation and the

>re-evaluations. I didn't find anything about requiring all parties to sign

>any sort of paper signifying agreement with the IEP.

>

>I am going to contact Becky Braunstein in Congressman Platts DC office and

>inquire about setting up a meeting with Mr. Platts. Once I have the

>meeting

>scheduled, I plan on discussing with him, how an amendment can be made to

>IDEA to reflect accountability for the school district by implementing some

>form of acceptable signature sheet that would indicate either agreement or

>disagreement of the IEP. If he agrees that an amendment should be made, I

>would be more than willing to testify based on my own experience with this.

>I honestly don't see why congress didn't see this sort of issue sooner,

>given that IDEA IS a Federal Law. Furthermore, since an IEP becomes a

>legally binding contract once it has been written, a signature page should

>be signed signifying agreement or disagreement by the parent(s). If it

>isn't, what reassurances does a parent in my situation have to really know

>that the contents of the IEP are being implemented properly?

>

>The reason why I'm making such a big deal out of this:

>

>My daughter's IEP wasn't signed (for agreement purposes), by me or by

>anyone

>else present at the annual meeting. I would have remembered if I did sign

>it

>and I would have received a copy of it along with the IEP. I know some of

>the things in her IEP are not being followed through with because I was

>told

>so, this morning. Perfect example: She is supposed to use a slant board

>for all writing assignments. This isn't being done except for in her

>learning support classroom. That slant board improves her writing skills

>and is an essential part of her IEP. That's why I asked for it to be

>included on her IEP. It is supposed to be used ANY TIME she has to write

>ANY THING. And this is exactly why I asked to see a signature page that

>didn't have anything to do with attendance. They are not following through

>with this part of her IEP. And if they aren't following through with this,

>then that seriously makes me wonder what else that are out of compliance

>with. When a signature page regarding agreement, couldn't be produced, I

>started asking tougher questions as to why there wasn't one. No one had

>any

>answers for me, other than, " let's talk to the Special Ed Director and find

>out. " Well, after numerous messages to her via email and phone, I still

>have no answer from her office or anyone else.

>

>

>I know IDEA somewhat touches on consent for the initial evals and the

>re-evals, but that's not what concerns me since it's already covered in

>IDEA. What is not covered is this whole requirement of an additional

>signature sheet signifying agreement, NOT attendance and that is what

>concerns me. I think you all see the point I am trying to make, in that

>without having this actually written into IDEA, there really is no way of

>enforcing an IEP because it isn't " technically " required to be signed by a

>parent. Too many times, the school district will attempt to reason with

>the

>parents that in the interest of " time " or whatever, the attendance sheet,

>should be used to signify agreement as well as attendance. A parent who

>either doesn't understand what the law is, or who just wants to end a

>stressful meeting, might just agree to that very thing. There is little

>protection being offered to the child and the parents if the IEP isn't

>signed the right way, with a clause or a statement reflecting what the

>signatures are for. It's basically useless because without those

>signatures, it doesn't mean a thing.

>

>

>Judi

>

>

>

>--------------------------------------------------

>Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and photos of

>our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by

>including them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the

>archives for our list. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/

>--------------------------------------------

>