Re: Therapy for my daughter

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sandy. Are you new? I don't recognize your name. If so, welcome to the

group. )

My opinion. . . I would suggest trying to confront the issues at home, using

ERP, where the worst of the problems are. She can learn to overcome them in a

environment that is most comfortable to her where she has your constant, loving

support. If she is incapable, then you can try something else. Although it

sounds like she has things she can work on there.

You could be describing our son, Josh, too. Gifted, strong willed,

argumentative, can talk circles around others, etc. He will sometimes argue on

the side that he does not particularly agree with, just to argue. <rolling

eyes> (Hubby, with OCD, does the same). I've learned to just not engage when

they are like that. Nobody wins. Not easy, but more peaceful.

What helped me in evaluating a therapist, was reading about and learning exactly

what CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy)/ERP (exposure and response prevention)

is, and how it's used with OCD, so they can improve. That helped me to know

what my expectations of a therapist should be.

March has a book called, Talking Back to OCD, which explains the therapy

well. It is what you should expect a therapist to be doing in therapy.

You want someone who truly understands OCD. Someone that adheres to the ()

March protocol. It would be helpful if they used his book for therapists (OCD

in Children and Adolescents - A Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment Manual). Ask

them if they've used CBT/ERP before, successfully. It's a must that they know

and use CBT/ERP. The CBT needs to be specific to OCD, because CBT is used to

treat other things too, but used differently depending on what is being treated.

The ERP is key. If they don't know what that is, or how to use it,. . Move on

to someone who does. It would be ideal, but not necessary, if they treated

other anxiety disorders too, since often OCD is not the only anxiety issue they

are dealing with.

They should be willing to let your daughter choose the pace. She should be in

control of what to work on, and for how long. Although, we found our son

sometimes needed a little encouragement to move forward. He was encouraged,

never forced.

After the initial first few appointments of evaluation, they should work on a

hierarchy list. That is where they make a list of all the thoughts/rituals/fears

she is dealing with. She then would rate them from worst to least bothersome.

Typically, they start working on the easiest, least bothersome thing and she

should gain confidence as she goes, to eventually overcome the larger things.

When CBT/ERP is done right, it helps them to overcome the OCD. Right now the

OCD has control, but doing the correct therapy, gives them the control. As they

confront the obsessions/compulsions, they gain control as the OCs lose power.

Eventually, the thoughts become less, sometimes even going completely away,

which makes them no longer feel the need to do the rituals (whether mental or

physical).

It's the OCD making her fear that if she confronts it, it will punish her. With

CBT/ERP, they learn to recognize the " irrational " thoughts that OCD feeds them.

They learn which thoughts are important, and which thoughts are bogus. They

learn how to disregard thoughts that aren't important, and are even lying to

them to feed their anxiety.

Hopefully, she can do the therapy without meds. That is ideal, and recommended.

But, for some, if the anxiety is too high, it needs to be brought down so they

can confront the OCD. Have you tried any other med besides Zoloft? You can get

a different response from a different medication/SSRIs. They all tend to have

side effects, but for us, we needed to decide if the benefit outweighed the side

effects. For us, they did. Our son also dealt with insomnia from the meds, but

that eventually passed and he doesn't suffer with it anymore. He took Benadryl

(earlier) and Melatonin (later, when the Benadryl stopped working) to help

combat the insomnia. Some of the side effects can disappear after being on the

med for a while. The depression, you explained, is one that is a bit concerning

though. Did that start only after she started the meds? Quite often they are

depressed trying to deal with the OCD. But, if you notice it gets worse on

meds, or even starts only after starting meds, that is a concern.

Have you tried any natural things? Inositol? Or Native Remedies products?

Some in here have had good results with those.

Therapy, sometimes coupled with meds (for those who need it), are their best

chance at improving. It gave our son his life back.

Hope something I said was helpful. )

BJ

>

> Hi,

>

> I am mom to , 15, who has severe OCD right now. She has been very afraid

of therapy and does not respond well to medication. Just yesterday she actually

said that she might be willing to do the ERP therapy and even said she might be

willing to do a residential program.

>

> I am always kind of confused with her, because this whole journey started with

stomach problems, then sensory problems, then we thought she had aspergers

syndrome and now the OCD is the dominant symptom. But she always does present

with physical symptoms - headaches, stomach pain, gas, eczema. And when she

takes supplements (as she has been because we were more focused on the

aspergers/sensory/toxicity problems), she reacts very strongly and appears to go

into a detox mode even with something as simple as vitamin d.

>

> But I am digressing. I have come to the conclusion that even if the OCD is

caused by viral or bacterial problems, she still needs to learn how to live with

it.

>

> I looked on the OC Foundation website and found that there is a therapist who

is local who does ERP and has a support group as well. The other option would be

Remuda Ranch. I am just wondering if anyone has any insight on whether it would

be better to try to address things locally as her issues revolve around home

(she is cyber schooled) or whether it is better to have to her get out of her

surroundings that trigger her so much and learn skills elsewhere and then come

back home and try to apply those skills.

>

> I would say that she is a tough cookie. She is extremely gifted and tends to

talk circles around a therapist and can be very irrational. She is also

extremely strong willed and stubborn. Also does have some aspergers traits and

is adopted so may have some issues there. And I am very reluctant to put her on

medication. We tried Zoloft and it made her very depressed and exacerbated her

already very bad sleep problems.

>

> Also wondering how to evaluate whether the local therapist is a good one. I

would like to make an appointment with him myself to see what he is like. What

kind of things would I be looking for? I sense that will need to go very

slowly as she has so much fear about confronting her OCD. She thinks it will

punish her by making her do more rituals if she confronts it.

>

> Thanks for any help, Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy. My dd was at Remuda Ranch for 60 days. It is a wonderful program. My

dd had 5 therapists prior to that and she fired them all. The psychologist at

Remuda told me that she believed my dd needed residential to get better. She had

to be taken out of the environment where she was so unsuccessful day after day.

Mine truly wasn't living her life. Most days she wouldn't even get out of bed.

Her anxiety was so overwhelming that she no longer could face any part of the

day. She hadn't been to school for 2 1/2 years. Have you already tried ERP at

home? Have you already looked into Remuda? It is very expensive and most

insurances need substantial evidence that residential is necessary before they

will agree to pay it. My dd was actually diagnosed with Asperger's also while

she was in residential. The psychologist there feels it is something she is

really good at identifying, so if your dd went there, you may get more answers

than you were expecting. Let

me know if you have specific questions about Remuda. Stormy

________________________________

To:

Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:48:24 AM

Subject: Therapy for my daughter

Hi,

I am mom to , 15, who has severe OCD right now. She has been very afraid of

therapy and does not respond well to medication. Just yesterday she actually

said that she might be willing to do the ERP therapy and even said she might be

willing to do a residential program.

I am always kind of confused with her, because this whole journey started with

stomach problems, then sensory problems, then we thought she had aspergers

syndrome and now the OCD is the dominant symptom. But she always does present

with physical symptoms - headaches, stomach pain, gas, eczema. And when she

takes supplements (as she has been because we were more focused on the

aspergers/sensory/ toxicity problems), she reacts very strongly and appears to

go into a detox mode even with something as simple as vitamin d.

But I am digressing. I have come to the conclusion that even if the OCD is

caused by viral or bacterial problems, she still needs to learn how to live with

it.

I looked on the OC Foundation website and found that there is a therapist who is

local who does ERP and has a support group as well. The other option would be

Remuda Ranch. I am just wondering if anyone has any insight on whether it would

be better to try to address things locally as her issues revolve around home

(she is cyber schooled) or whether it is better to have to her get out of her

surroundings that trigger her so much and learn skills elsewhere and then come

back home and try to apply those skills.

I would say that she is a tough cookie. She is extremely gifted and tends to

talk circles around a therapist and can be very irrational. She is also

extremely strong willed and stubborn. Also does have some aspergers traits and

is adopted so may have some issues there. And I am very reluctant to put her on

medication. We tried Zoloft and it made her very depressed and exacerbated her

already very bad sleep problems.

Also wondering how to evaluate whether the local therapist is a good one. I

would like to make an appointment with him myself to see what he is like. What

kind of things would I be looking for? I sense that will need to go very

slowly as she has so much fear about confronting her OCD. She thinks it will

punish her by making her do more rituals if she confronts it.

Thanks for any help, Sandy

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy! BJ seems to have answered all your questions, but wanted to ask what

type OC behaviors is having? You mentioned they revolve around home.

Does she do well when she's out somewhere else then? My OCD son (20) also has

Aspergers, is smart. Had to smile at your comment " talks circles " around the

therapist. doesn't have good insight into his OCD. Although right now

his OCD is the religious/scrupulosity kind, with bad thoughts, trying to be a

good Christian, etc., etc., and I think that makes it harder for him to see it

as " OCD " and not him as to the type person he is. His OCD used to be more

compulsions, rituals, and that was easier for him to see those as OCD.

>

> Hi,

>

> I am mom to , 15, who has severe OCD right now. She has been very afraid

of therapy and does not respond well to medication. Just yesterday she actually

said that she might be willing to do the ERP therapy and even said she might be

willing to do a residential program.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, you guys, for taking the time to answer. I have been lurking about here

for a while but have only posted once, I think. I did make an appointment

locally. I found the therapist from the OC Foundation website and he specializes

in CBT/ERP so I am hoping he is good. and I are going to go together for

an evaluation. He emphasized that needs to be on-board with this or it

will not go anywhere. I think I realized that Remuda Ranch might be

prohibitively expensive and that would be a last resort for us.

We have tried 5-HTP and inositol. We actually arrived here after two years of

biomedical supplements (focusing more on sensory/toxicity issues). has

been extremely sensitive to supplements and reacts strongly to things as simple

as vitamin d. It seems that anything that acts on serotonin gives her a non-stop

headache and she seems to withdraw more - into her computer, no talking, no

interacting. When we weaned her off the Zoloft (which, I think was a very small

dose) she became really weepy and depressed. She is often very down about her

situation and depressed about it but I had not seen this kind of depression

before so I am very wary of anything that acts on serotonin for her. I am sure

there are other neurotransmitters that are out of whack (she does take gaba) but

I am tired of giving her things (and she is tired of taking things), having her

react badly, removing them. For now, I would like to see if she can do the

therapy without medication.

's OC centers around touch. She says that she feels a film on her hands

when she touches things that are contaminated (most things) and has to wash her

hands to get rid of the feeling. She says if other people touch her things she

can feel the residue from their hands. She has broken things of hers that other

people have touched. But now she has stopped that and has started spitting on

things that have become contaminated. Just in the last month, she has started

spitting a lot. She says her mouth feels weird and she has to spit. She has had

a lot of sensory sensivities so the OCD, too, seems to be tied up with sensory

things. She opens doors with her feet, won't sit on chairs other than her own.

Has a long ritual in the bathroom and I am not sure what that involves

completely. She has trouble going to bed and trouble getting up - seems tied up

with OCD as well as some sleep problems. When she was doing school (she is on a

medical leave of absence from a cyber school) she was having trouble typing as

the letters on the screen didn't look right (some looked closer to her and some

looked further back) and she had to erase them over and over. Strangely enough,

she is OK with having a massage or having cranial sacral work done on her.

The therapist said he would try to figure out whether her sensory issues are

really OCD issues or if they are a separate thing. We did some sensory

integration therapy with and it was not very successful. She actually did

not have any touch sensitivities that she was aware of when she started the

therapy but they did a lot of education and explained all the different types of

sensory problems and she came out of it having picked up on the touch thing -

not what I was looking for(:

Sorry so long - Sandy

[Guest guest]

I'm not wanting to sound negative, but I am wary of anyone who puts a condition

on the service they provide, i.e., " needs to be on-board with this or it

will not go anywhere " . That kind of lets them off the hook. It's true that

they have to want to do this, but in my opinion, it is also the therapist's job

(and not just that of the parents or the child) to help the child get ready. I

say this for 2 reasons....my sister is a psychologist and suggested that to me

and secondly because I spent almost 3 yrs with the wrong therapist who

supposedly did CBT, but actually did not help us.

Bonnie

>

> Thanks, you guys, for taking the time to answer. I have been lurking about

here for a while but have only posted once, I think. I did make an appointment

locally. I found the therapist from the OC Foundation website and he specializes

in CBT/ERP so I am hoping he is good. and I are going to go together for

an evaluation. He emphasized that needs to be on-board with this or it

will not go anywhere. I think I realized that Remuda Ranch might be

prohibitively expensive and that would be a last resort for us.

>

> We have tried 5-HTP and inositol. We actually arrived here after two years of

biomedical supplements (focusing more on sensory/toxicity issues). has

been extremely sensitive to supplements and reacts strongly to things as simple

as vitamin d. It seems that anything that acts on serotonin gives her a non-stop

headache and she seems to withdraw more - into her computer, no talking, no

interacting. When we weaned her off the Zoloft (which, I think was a very small

dose) she became really weepy and depressed. She is often very down about her

situation and depressed about it but I had not seen this kind of depression

before so I am very wary of anything that acts on serotonin for her. I am sure

there are other neurotransmitters that are out of whack (she does take gaba) but

I am tired of giving her things (and she is tired of taking things), having her

react badly, removing them. For now, I would like to see if she can do the

therapy without medication.

>

> 's OC centers around touch. She says that she feels a film on her hands

when she touches things that are contaminated (most things) and has to wash her

hands to get rid of the feeling. She says if other people touch her things she

can feel the residue from their hands. She has broken things of hers that other

people have touched. But now she has stopped that and has started spitting on

things that have become contaminated. Just in the last month, she has started

spitting a lot. She says her mouth feels weird and she has to spit. She has had

a lot of sensory sensivities so the OCD, too, seems to be tied up with sensory

things. She opens doors with her feet, won't sit on chairs other than her own.

Has a long ritual in the bathroom and I am not sure what that involves

completely. She has trouble going to bed and trouble getting up - seems tied up

with OCD as well as some sleep problems. When she was doing school (she is on a

medical leave of absence from a cyber school) she was having trouble typing as

the letters on the screen didn't look right (some looked closer to her and some

looked further back) and she had to erase them over and over. Strangely enough,

she is OK with having a massage or having cranial sacral work done on her.

>

> The therapist said he would try to figure out whether her sensory issues are

really OCD issues or if they are a separate thing. We did some sensory

integration therapy with and it was not very successful. She actually did

not have any touch sensitivities that she was aware of when she started the

therapy but they did a lot of education and explained all the different types of

sensory problems and she came out of it having picked up on the touch thing -

not what I was looking for(:

>

> Sorry so long - Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Sandy. How does your feel about doing the CBT/ERP therapy? Does she

want to do it? Is she willing? If not, can she be encouraged to try? I know

sometimes they are so overwhelmed with the OCD that even trying sounds too

scary. (

Josh went into it with such a willing heart. He was willing to do just about

anything at that point. By the time I had finally found a good therapist, who

would take him, which took about 3 months of searching (not many good, qualified

therapists here), he had been suffering pretty badly. We were also trying to get

his meds up to a level that would help too, since he was pretty much sofa bound

(for about 6 months), being completely overwhelmed by his OCD and GAD. I think

his severity, partly, gave him the incentive to try.

But, I also found he was more willing to do this type of therapy. He was never

willing to do the talk therapy, we tried that for years prior to finding someone

who truly understood how to treat OCD correctly. He has told me the reason he

was more willing to do the CBT/ERP therapy with his current (qualified)

therapist, is because this therapist made sense from the very beginning. Josh

" got " that the therapist understood OCD, so was willing to try what was

suggested, to try to get better. He has told me that from the first

appointment, he realized this guy was different and he felt we'd found someone

who understood it and could possibly help.

Maybe once she gets in there and see the therapist knows what she is suffering

with, she will get on board, like Josh did. Anyway, that is my hope and prayer

for you. Let us know how it goes. )

Hugs,

BJ

>

> Thanks, you guys, for taking the time to answer. I have been lurking about

here for a while but have only posted once, I think. I did make an appointment

locally. I found the therapist from the OC Foundation website and he specializes

in CBT/ERP so I am hoping he is good. and I are going to go together for

an evaluation. He emphasized that needs to be on-board with this or it

will not go anywhere. I think I realized that Remuda Ranch might be

prohibitively expensive and that would be a last resort for us.

>

> We have tried 5-HTP and inositol. We actually arrived here after two years of

biomedical supplements (focusing more on sensory/toxicity issues). has

been extremely sensitive to supplements and reacts strongly to things as simple

as vitamin d. It seems that anything that acts on serotonin gives her a non-stop

headache and she seems to withdraw more - into her computer, no talking, no

interacting. When we weaned her off the Zoloft (which, I think was a very small

dose) she became really weepy and depressed. She is often very down about her

situation and depressed about it but I had not seen this kind of depression

before so I am very wary of anything that acts on serotonin for her. I am sure

there are other neurotransmitters that are out of whack (she does take gaba) but

I am tired of giving her things (and she is tired of taking things), having her

react badly, removing them. For now, I would like to see if she can do the

therapy without medication.

>

> 's OC centers around touch. She says that she feels a film on her hands

when she touches things that are contaminated (most things) and has to wash her

hands to get rid of the feeling. She says if other people touch her things she

can feel the residue from their hands. She has broken things of hers that other

people have touched. But now she has stopped that and has started spitting on

things that have become contaminated. Just in the last month, she has started

spitting a lot. She says her mouth feels weird and she has to spit. She has had

a lot of sensory sensivities so the OCD, too, seems to be tied up with sensory

things. She opens doors with her feet, won't sit on chairs other than her own.

Has a long ritual in the bathroom and I am not sure what that involves

completely. She has trouble going to bed and trouble getting up - seems tied up

with OCD as well as some sleep problems. When she was doing school (she is on a

medical leave of absence from a cyber school) she was having trouble typing as

the letters on the screen didn't look right (some looked closer to her and some

looked further back) and she had to erase them over and over. Strangely enough,

she is OK with having a massage or having cranial sacral work done on her.

>

> The therapist said he would try to figure out whether her sensory issues are

really OCD issues or if they are a separate thing. We did some sensory

integration therapy with and it was not very successful. She actually did

not have any touch sensitivities that she was aware of when she started the

therapy but they did a lot of education and explained all the different types of

sensory problems and she came out of it having picked up on the touch thing -

not what I was looking for(:

>

> Sorry so long - Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

Well - I think he might have been responding to my telling him that is

just beginning to be willing to try therapy. She can be very negative and is

very afraid of the therapy. Just a week ago she said she knows it can't help and

won't help. But only this weekend she seemed more willing so I am kind of

jumping on that and hope the therapist can explain so that she will understand

that it can help. I have the March book on OCD and have read myself but she will

not pick it up. Will let you know how it goes. Today we are trying to go to an

interview for a cyber school. So I am having my own anxiety about getting her

there - it is an hour away. Just have to breath!!!

Sandy

>

> I'm not wanting to sound negative, but I am wary of anyone who puts a

condition on the service they provide, i.e., " needs to be on-board with

this or it will not go anywhere " . That kind of lets them off the hook. It's

true that they have to want to do this, but in my opinion, it is also the

therapist's job (and not just that of the parents or the child) to help the

child get ready. I say this for 2 reasons....my sister is a psychologist and

suggested that to me and secondly because I spent almost 3 yrs with the wrong

therapist who supposedly did CBT, but actually did not help us.

>

> Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy, did you & get to the cyber school interview? As to books & info

on OCD, was never interested in reading any of it either, still isn't

today.

>

> Well - I think he might have been responding to my telling him that is

just beginning to be willing to try therapy. She can be very negative and is

very afraid of the therapy. Just a week ago she said she knows it can't help and

won't help. But only this weekend she seemed more willing so I am kind of

jumping on that and hope the therapist can explain so that she will understand

that it can help. I have the March book on OCD and have read myself but she will

not pick

[Guest guest]

We did get to the cyber school interview and she is signed up for next fall. Now

to work on getting her ready to actually do the work. But the day went

remarkably well. She actually got up on time (which is a huge issue for her) and

did well with a crowded room, hot and noisy. We then found a PF Changs and had

dinner. Was wonderful because we are both gluten free and they have a great

gluten free menu. On days like that she seems close to being OK. But then I

remember all the days that are not like that - and those are in the majority.

Sandy

> >

> > Well - I think he might have been responding to my telling him that is

just beginning to be willing to try therapy. She can be very negative and is

very afraid of the therapy. Just a week ago she said she knows it can't help and

won't help. But only this weekend she seemed more willing so I am kind of

jumping on that and hope the therapist can explain so that she will understand

that it can help. I have the March book on OCD and have read myself but she will

not pick

>