Re: love and need revisited

[Guest guest]

Heidi wrote:

> I want a connected kind of freedom. Even as I say that I feel like

> I'm asking for too much.

This reminds me of a guy who says he wants a woman who's independent

and know her own mind, but who wants his advice and does everything

he says. :-)

Heidi, you can have " a connected kind of freedom. " But you can't get

it by NEEDING a connection. Because when you NEED anything, then you

aren't free; you're a slave to whatever it is you need.

When I advised you to give up relationships for awhile, it was so you

can get over your NEED. You can't do that when you're in a

relationship. It's like the smoker who thinks he can give up smoking

any time he chooses, but finds out he can't when he tries.

Without a relationship, you can learn to be happy by yourself. This

won't mean that you won't also be happy in a relationship. It just

means you don't NEED a relationship to be happy. Once you've gained

that level of self-sufficiency, then you'll make a good partner for

someone who is also looking for " a connected kind of freedom. "

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

Dear Warren,

Oh my God, this is the man I'm having extreme difficulty letting go

of right now, or it's my story of him:

You wrote: > This reminds me of a guy who says he wants a woman

who's independent and know her own mind, but who wants his advice and

does everything he says. :-)>

And I will add - and who doesn't tell you that's what he wants and

when you don't do it he becomes very indignant. Passive-aggressive

behaviour I have heard it described, but that's just another story I

like - I love psycho-babel. I have a history of attracting men like

this.

What the Work has helped me to find is how I do the same thing in my

own way. My guy must know how to please me without my telling him -

that just sooo spoils the spontaneity of it all, ya know ;-). Then

when he doesn't produce the correct behaviour (how do I react when I

hold the belief he should do such-and-such) I contract inside, block

out his innocence, & reject his behaviour - so painfully separating.

So he and I have much in common and my current understanding is that

my need for him has been just like a drug habit - going back for a

fix of (my own) arrogance and power - when he is not living up to my

beliefs. Busted!

It is a painful realization in a sweet way - as many truths often

are. And I try to be more gentle and more open now, saying what I

would like and would not like to do. I feel like I'm learning a

foreign language, though, when I go to speak after a lifetime of not

speaking my truth. Truth is a foreign language. That's a keeper.

LOL - Oh God, I crack me up sometimes. And it feels good to laugh.

For now, Heidi, I am learning to appreciate how the Work works for me

and after 3 years I can honestly say that the story of needing a man

has weakened considerably. And I see very clearly that my sex drive

is what seems to be a leading cause of the story creation about

needing a partner and I have alot of Work to do there yet.

This has been good work today in this area and I love everyone's

input - the synchronicity of subject matter we go into is always

astounding. It really pulls me out of the " why me, Lord " place to

know we are really all having the same experience and is humbling.

[Guest guest]

I was unaware that I didn't sign off on the previous posting and it

seems incomplete for me not to do that.

Lovingly,

> This reminds me of a guy who says he wants a woman

> who's independent and know her own mind, but who wants his advice

and

> does everything he says. :-)>

>

> And I will add - and who doesn't tell you that's what he wants and

> when you don't do it he becomes very indignant. Passive-aggressive

> behaviour I have heard it described, but that's just another story

I

> like - I love psycho-babel. I have a history of attracting men

like

> this.

>

> What the Work has helped me to find is how I do the same thing in

my

> own way. My guy must know how to please me without my telling him -

> that just sooo spoils the spontaneity of it all, ya know ;-). Then

> when he doesn't produce the correct behaviour (how do I react when

I

> hold the belief he should do such-and-such) I contract inside,

block

> out his innocence, & reject his behaviour - so painfully

separating.

> So he and I have much in common and my current understanding is

that

> my need for him has been just like a drug habit - going back for a

> fix of (my own) arrogance and power - when he is not living up to

my

> beliefs. Busted!

>

> It is a painful realization in a sweet way - as many truths often

> are. And I try to be more gentle and more open now, saying what I

> would like and would not like to do. I feel like I'm learning a

> foreign language, though, when I go to speak after a lifetime of

not

> speaking my truth. Truth is a foreign language. That's a keeper.

> LOL - Oh God, I crack me up sometimes. And it feels good to laugh.

>

> For now, Heidi, I am learning to appreciate how the Work works for

me

> and after 3 years I can honestly say that the story of needing a

man

> has weakened considerably. And I see very clearly that my sex

drive

> is what seems to be a leading cause of the story creation about

> needing a partner and I have alot of Work to do there yet.

>

> This has been good work today in this area and I love everyone's

> input - the synchronicity of subject matter we go into is always

> astounding. It really pulls me out of the " why me, Lord " place to

> know we are really all having the same experience and is humbling.

[Guest guest]

>>It just means you don't NEED a relationship to be happy.

Once you've gained that level of self-sufficiency, then you'll make a good

partner for someone who is also looking for " a connected kind of freedom. " <<

Maybe what you say is true or even ideal, but who says one must find it

while being alone? Maybe it's also true that Heidi (or anyone) can find that

person and her self-sufficiency while in a relationship?

Not to be a killjoy to your wisdom, but it appears to me that anyone can

find truth in any situation. There are no conditions or formulas.

Laurie O.

-- Re: love and need revisited

Heidi wrote:

> I want a connected kind of freedom. Even as I say that I feel like

> I'm asking for too much.

This reminds me of a guy who says he wants a woman who's independent

and know her own mind, but who wants his advice and does everything

he says. :-)

Heidi, you can have " a connected kind of freedom. " But you can't get

it by NEEDING a connection. Because when you NEED anything, then you

aren't free; you're a slave to whatever it is you need.

When I advised you to give up relationships for awhile, it was so you

can get over your NEED. You can't do that when you're in a

relationship. It's like the smoker who thinks he can give up smoking

any time he chooses, but finds out he can't when he tries.

Without a relationship, you can learn to be happy by yourself. This

won't mean that you won't also be happy in a relationship. It just

means you don't NEED a relationship to be happy. Once you've gained

that level of self-sufficiency, then you'll make a good partner for

someone who is also looking for " a connected kind of freedom. "

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

Laurie O. wrote:

> ...who says one must find it while being alone? Maybe it's also

> true that Heidi (or anyone) can find that person and her self-

> sufficiency while in a relationship?

It isn't impossible, I suppose, but it's very difficult. Generally, a

person who needs to be needed is going to pair up with another person

who needs to be needed. That's the Law of Attraction. And developing

self-sufficiency while you're in a needy relationship is nearly

impossible.

If you stumble across someone who isn't needy, why would you pair up

with him? If he's self-sufficient, then you won't feel needed, and

thus you won't feel loved, because needy people equate love with need.

If you're already in a needy relationship, and you try to develop

self-sufficiency, then for the same reason your partner will no

longer feel loved and keep trying to drag you back.

I'm not talking hypotheticals here, I'm talking experience.

Hypotheticals are useless.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

" It isn't impossible, I suppose, but it's very difficult. Generally, a

person who needs to be needed is going to pair up with another person

who needs to be needed. That's the Law of Attraction. And developing

self-sufficiency while you're in a needy relationship is nearly

impossible.

If you stumble across someone who isn't needy, why would you pair up

with him? If he's self-sufficient, then you won't feel needed, and

thus you won't feel loved, because needy people equate love with need. "

Warren, I tend to agree with you as it's been my experience as well and it

intuitively makes sense...But situations evolve...One partner can use the

relationship to learn self-sufficiency and the other tolerance for example...

[Guest guest]

Warren,

I debate this point with you because I have heard so many people in life say

things to this effect: it works this way or that way only and/or I tried it

other ways and it doesn't work. End of story, give up. Life can work in so

many ways and the possibilities are enormous. When the mind is clear the

focus and ideas can flow - with or without another person. I've also seen

circumstances present themselves as alternatives when I thought I had no

choices.

From my experience, on some levels of security I was needy when I met my

husband and he was not. In other ways, he was needy and I wasn't. Do you

suppose you are assuming what the laws of attraction are doing? There are

too many factors involved to make any assumptions for another person. I

think only that person can decide if and what could work for her/him.

Others can only offer them alternative ideas and let their mind work for

them.

Anyway, only through time did I learn that insecurity/neediness wasn't

conducive to our relationship, or myself. I learned to be more

self-sufficient. I wanted that. This did not cause any major damage to our

relationship....the neediness was the cause of our problems. My husband may

have tried to pull me back but only for a moment. He was actually relieved

to see my changes. There are no hard and fast rules on how to live life and

learn from it.

Your experience isn't necessarily true for everyone and mine not true for

everyone either. Everyone learns from their own experience and can only

glean ideas for learning from those who have come before them. Ultimately,

the simple question, is it true seems to cut to the heart of it all. Is it

true that a needy person will always attract another needy person; and that

person will pull them back? Is it true that one can only find

self-sufficiency by being alone? Is it true that it will be easier?

And, just so you know...I'm not stressed over this or upset at all. I've

liked your input in this group and I enjoy the input of differing of ideas.

Also, I don't discount that I may be misunderstanding your position.

Continue to feel free to express yourself.

Laurie O.

-- Re: love and need revisited

Laurie O. wrote:

> ...who says one must find it while being alone? Maybe it's also

> true that Heidi (or anyone) can find that person and her self-

> sufficiency while in a relationship?

It isn't impossible, I suppose, but it's very difficult. Generally, a

person who needs to be needed is going to pair up with another person

who needs to be needed. That's the Law of Attraction. And developing

self-sufficiency while you're in a needy relationship is nearly

impossible.

If you stumble across someone who isn't needy, why would you pair up

with him? If he's self-sufficient, then you won't feel needed, and

thus you won't feel loved, because needy people equate love with need.

If you're already in a needy relationship, and you try to develop

self-sufficiency, then for the same reason your partner will no

longer feel loved and keep trying to drag you back.

I'm not talking hypotheticals here, I'm talking experience.

Hypotheticals are useless.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

Laurie wrote:

> Is it true that a needy person will always attract another needy

> person...

No, not always, but it's likely.

> ...and that person will pull them back?

No, not always, but it's likely.

> Is it true that one can only find self-sufficiency by being alone?

No, but it's the simplest way.

> Is it true that it will be easier?

It may not be 'easier', because it can be scary for a needy person,

but it's certainly simpler.

Laurie, I didn't say it was impossible to become self-sufficient

while in a relationship; I said it was very difficult. Certainly, as

in your case, it can happen when both are open to it. But do you

think you're helping Heidi by encouraging her to do so? To me, it's

akin to telling an addict, " Oh, go ahead, you can quit any time you

want. I did. "

Heidi has said that she is afraid of being without a primary

relationship. She can do Inquiry on her fearful thoughts to discover

her truth about them, but I don't know any way to know that I've

really conquered my fear of something other than to do it. If I'm

afraid of being alone, how can I really know that I'm no longer

afraid unless I spend some time alone? How can I know that I'm self-

sufficient unless I face successfully by myself situations that I

formerly needed a partner to face?

And I don't see how I can claim to have gained self-sufficiency while

I'm involved in a relationship. How can I know? What's the test? It's

too easy for me to fool myself when I say, " Oh, I don't need anyone

else, even though I have someone else. "

It's easy to trade a painful story for a happier story. But unless

it's passed the test of experience, it's still just a story.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

Is this becoming a battle of beliefs?

OOPs more Work for me!!

Re: love and need revisited

Laurie wrote:

> Is it true that a needy person will always attract another needy

> person...

No, not always, but it's likely.

> ...and that person will pull them back?

No, not always, but it's likely.

> Is it true that one can only find self-sufficiency by being alone?

No, but it's the simplest way.

> Is it true that it will be easier?

It may not be 'easier', because it can be scary for a needy person,

but it's certainly simpler.

Laurie, I didn't say it was impossible to become self-sufficient

while in a relationship; I said it was very difficult. Certainly, as

in your case, it can happen when both are open to it. But do you

think you're helping Heidi by encouraging her to do so? To me, it's

akin to telling an addict, " Oh, go ahead, you can quit any time you

want. I did. "

Heidi has said that she is afraid of being without a primary

relationship. She can do Inquiry on her fearful thoughts to discover

her truth about them, but I don't know any way to know that I've

really conquered my fear of something other than to do it. If I'm

afraid of being alone, how can I really know that I'm no longer

afraid unless I spend some time alone? How can I know that I'm self-

sufficient unless I face successfully by myself situations that I

formerly needed a partner to face?

And I don't see how I can claim to have gained self-sufficiency while

I'm involved in a relationship. How can I know? What's the test? It's

too easy for me to fool myself when I say, " Oh, I don't need anyone

else, even though I have someone else. "

It's easy to trade a painful story for a happier story. But unless

it's passed the test of experience, it's still just a story.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

You make some good points Warren. Especially about the test. Good point..

I don't agree for everyone in every life situation, but it really doesn't

matter anyway. <smile>

I'm not telling anyone to do anything, by the way....just to keep one's mind

open to possibilities/ideas. It's all in our thinking. Ultimately, Heidi

has to decide what is best for her. I can't make an alcoholic drink if they

don't want to, no matter what I say. It's not my decision.

It's not about simple or difficult anyway, but about learning to be free

from the stories and live now, being open to the truth no matter how we

judge it to be - when the desire arises. Just facing whatever comes up

inside. Once you get the truth, you don't look back and lament about how

hard it was but feel the freedom of that truth. When we judge what is

simpler or not beforehand, we start new stories and conditions about

learning. Just do it, baby. This is what I live and this is what I teach

my children.

I trust Heidi will find her way with or without either one of us. Don't you

feel special Heidi being the topic of our debate? haha

Thanks for your part in this discussion Warren....I feel better now. ;-)

Laurie O.

-- Re: love and need revisited

Laurie wrote:

> Is it true that a needy person will always attract another needy

> person...

No, not always, but it's likely.

> ...and that person will pull them back?

No, not always, but it's likely.

> Is it true that one can only find self-sufficiency by being alone?

No, but it's the simplest way.

> Is it true that it will be easier?

It may not be 'easier', because it can be scary for a needy person,

but it's certainly simpler.

Laurie, I didn't say it was impossible to become self-sufficient

while in a relationship; I said it was very difficult. Certainly, as

in your case, it can happen when both are open to it. But do you

think you're helping Heidi by encouraging her to do so? To me, it's

akin to telling an addict, " Oh, go ahead, you can quit any time you

want. I did. "

Heidi has said that she is afraid of being without a primary

relationship. She can do Inquiry on her fearful thoughts to discover

her truth about them, but I don't know any way to know that I've

really conquered my fear of something other than to do it. If I'm

afraid of being alone, how can I really know that I'm no longer

afraid unless I spend some time alone? How can I know that I'm self-

sufficient unless I face successfully by myself situations that I

formerly needed a partner to face?

And I don't see how I can claim to have gained self-sufficiency while

I'm involved in a relationship. How can I know? What's the test? It's

too easy for me to fool myself when I say, " Oh, I don't need anyone

else, even though I have someone else. "

It's easy to trade a painful story for a happier story. But unless

it's passed the test of experience, it's still just a story.

Peace and love,

Warren