Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 hi carol- i did check out your web site- love it AND the article by katharine- thanks for sharing that... love, laurie An author among us (Katharine) Dear Family,If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will see a lovely article—which had it's roots here in a post to Loving-what—is—penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, Katharine .It's called "To Love (and Be) a Tree"...and it's a must-read!Enjoy.Love,Carol S.www.EclecticSpirituality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 On Sunday 17th February pashyantnick wrote: Dear Family, If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will see a lovely article—which had it's roots here in a post to Loving-what—is—penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, Katharine . It's called "To Love (and Be) a Tree"...and it's a must-read! Enjoy. Love, Carol S. www.EclecticSpirituality. Whoah! Dear everyone… Please may I share with you my story about this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say 'share'…) So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts like: people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, and they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going to think I'm spiritually superior… YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work. I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of me. Is it true? Well, no. People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway. How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived experience of pleasure, followed by anxiety. (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is that true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How do I treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become a little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming….) Who would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am happy to feel insecure.) How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh puh-lease!) Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one. Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free. Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the false picture of me. I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make a fuss of other people. Certainly. I don't need people to appreciate me, praise me etc. True. People should ignore me - if they want to. Of course - they're busy. And it's not my business. I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I often ignore the moment when I could investigate or learn something. I put it off, or treat other things as more important. Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to the bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming. The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although these hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. But the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind of guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully to see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false and uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind of greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone to throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it leads me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it invades many areas of life. I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of you, for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite a shock. And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciate them. Love you all Katharine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 LOL!!!! I think it's FABULOUS that you got a piece out of this, Katharine! It's almost better than the article!!!! Don't we all want that Love, Approval, Appreciation? And where does it ultimately come from anyhow? <---- It's a lovely piece of writing IMHO AND you don't need us to tell you whether it is or it isn't. What do you think about it, whether or not " you " wrote it? Do you like it? Is there anything wrong with saying so? Wanting LAA is that limited ego thing, but so is self-deprecation. I've been practicing, when I remember, taking in compliments without " thank you " and without negating them either. Interesting how uncomfortable that can feel. Except once: at the cleanse, someone I didn't know, but who had been watching me share I guess, came up to me at the end, threw her arms around me and said, " Oh, I just love you! " I said, " We have a lot in common! " -- in that moment it was true, I was just so tickled with myself -- and we both cracked up! It felt audacious and wonderful to say it. I wonder if we could try an experiment here. Everyone who wants to can say one nice thing about themselves that others may or may not agree with, and without caring about what anyone thinks. Shall I start? Love, Carol S. www.EclecticSpirituality.com > > > Dear Family, > > > > If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will see a > > lovely article—which had it's roots here in a post to > > Loving-what—is—penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, > > Katharine . > > > > It's called " To Love (and Be) a Tree " ...and it's a must-read! > > > > Enjoy. > > > > Love, > > Carol S. > > www.EclecticSpirituality. > > Whoah! Dear everyone… Please may I share with you my story about > this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say > 'share'…) > So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And > then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts like: > people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, and > they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going to > think I'm spiritually superior… > YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work. > I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of > me. Is it true? Well, no. > People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway. > How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived experience > of pleasure, followed by anxiety. > > (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is that > true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How do I > treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become a > little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming….) Who > would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more > generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am happy > to feel insecure.) > > How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I > feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh > puh-lease!) > Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one. > Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free. > Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the > false picture of me. > I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make a > fuss of other people. Certainly. > I don't need people to appreciate me, praise me > etc. True. > People should ignore me - if they want to. Of > course - they're busy. And it's > not my business. > I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I often > ignore the moment when I could > investigate or learn something. I put it off, or > treat other things as more important. > > Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to the > bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming. > The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although these > hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. But > the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind of > guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully to > see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false and > uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind of > greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone to > throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a > thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it leads > me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it invades > many areas of life. > > I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of you, > for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite a > shock. > > And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for > yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 That is a wonderful Idea! Please do! > > > > > Dear Family, > > > > > > If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will > see a > > > lovely article?which had it's roots here in a post to > > > Loving-what?is?penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, > > > Katharine . > > > > > > It's called " To Love (and Be) a Tree " ...and it's a must-read! > > > > > > Enjoy. > > > > > > Love, > > > Carol S. > > > www.EclecticSpirituality. > > > > Whoah! Dear everyone? Please may I share with you my story about > > this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say > > 'share'?) > > So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And > > then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts > like: > > people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, > and > > they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going > to > > think I'm spiritually superior? > > YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work. > > I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of > > me. Is it true? Well, no. > > People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway. > > How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived > experience > > of pleasure, followed by anxiety. > > > > (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is > that > > true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How > do I > > treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become > a > > little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming?.) Who > > would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more > > generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am > happy > > to feel insecure.) > > > > How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I > > feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh > > puh-lease!) > > Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one. > > Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free. > > Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the > > false picture of me. > > I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make > a > > fuss of other people. Certainly. > > I don't need people to appreciate me, praise > me > > etc. True. > > People should ignore me - if they want to. Of > > course - they're busy. And it's > > not my business. > > I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I > often > > ignore the moment when I could > > investigate or learn something. I put it > off, or > > treat other things as more important. > > > > Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to > the > > bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming. > > The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although > these > > hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. > But > > the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind > of > > guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully > to > > see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false > and > > uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind > of > > greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone > to > > throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a > > thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it > leads > > me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it > invades > > many areas of life. > > > > I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of > you, > > for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite > a > > shock. > > > > And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for > > yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 That is a wonderful Idea! Please do! > > > > > Dear Family, > > > > > > If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will > see a > > > lovely article?which had it's roots here in a post to > > > Loving-what?is?penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, > > > Katharine . > > > > > > It's called " To Love (and Be) a Tree " ...and it's a must-read! > > > > > > Enjoy. > > > > > > Love, > > > Carol S. > > > www.EclecticSpirituality. > > > > Whoah! Dear everyone? Please may I share with you my story about > > this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say > > 'share'?) > > So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And > > then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts > like: > > people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, > and > > they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going > to > > think I'm spiritually superior? > > YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work. > > I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of > > me. Is it true? Well, no. > > People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway. > > How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived > experience > > of pleasure, followed by anxiety. > > > > (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is > that > > true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How > do I > > treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become > a > > little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming?.) Who > > would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more > > generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am > happy > > to feel insecure.) > > > > How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I > > feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh > > puh-lease!) > > Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one. > > Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free. > > Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the > > false picture of me. > > I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make > a > > fuss of other people. Certainly. > > I don't need people to appreciate me, praise > me > > etc. True. > > People should ignore me - if they want to. Of > > course - they're busy. And it's > > not my business. > > I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I > often > > ignore the moment when I could > > investigate or learn something. I put it > off, or > > treat other things as more important. > > > > Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to > the > > bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming. > > The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although > these > > hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. > But > > the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind > of > > guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully > to > > see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false > and > > uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind > of > > greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone > to > > throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a > > thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it > leads > > me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it > invades > > many areas of life. > > > > I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of > you, > > for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite > a > > shock. > > > > And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for > > yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 sure - go ahead Re: An author among us (Katharine) LOL!!!! I think it's FABULOUS that you got a piece out of this, Katharine! It's almost better than the article!!!! Don't we all want that Love, Approval, Appreciation? And where does it ultimately come from anyhow? <---- :)It's a lovely piece of writing IMHO AND you don't need us to tell you whether it is or it isn't. What do you think about it, whether or not "you" wrote it? Do you like it? Is there anything wrong with saying so?Wanting LAA is that limited ego thing, but so is self-deprecation.I've been practicing, when I remember, taking in compliments without "thank you" and without negating them either. Interesting how uncomfortable that can feel. Except once: at the cleanse, someone I didn't know, but who had been watching me share I guess, came up to me at the end, threw her arms around me and said, "Oh, I just love you!" I said, "We have a lot in common!" -- in that moment it was true, I was just so tickled with myself -- and we both cracked up! It felt audacious and wonderful to say it.I wonder if we could try an experiment here. Everyone who wants to can say one nice thing about themselves that others may or may not agree with, and without caring about what anyone thinks.Shall I start?Love,Carol S.www.EclecticSpirituality.com--- In Loving-what-is@y..., Katharine <katharine@w...> wrote:> > > > Dear Family,> >> > If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will see a> > lovely article—which had it's roots here in a post to> > Loving-what—is—penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin,> > Katharine .> >> > It's called "To Love (and Be) a Tree"...and it's a must-read!> >> > Enjoy.> >> > Love,> > Carol S.> > www.EclecticSpirituality.> > Whoah! Dear everyone… Please may I share with you my story about> this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say> 'share'…)> So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And> then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts like:> people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, and> they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going to> think I'm spiritually superior…> YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work.> I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of> me. Is it true? Well, no.> People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway.> How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived experience> of pleasure, followed by anxiety.> > (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is that> true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How do I> treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become a> little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming….) Who> would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more> generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am happy> to feel insecure.)> > How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I> feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh> puh-lease!)> Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one.> Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free.> Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the> false picture of me.> I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make a> fuss of other people. Certainly.> I don't need people to appreciate me, praise me> etc. True.> People should ignore me - if they want to. Of> course - they're busy. And it's> not my business.> I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I often> ignore the moment when I could> investigate or learn something. I put it off, or> treat other things as more important.> > Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to the> bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming.> The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although these> hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. But> the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind of> guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully to> see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false and> uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind of> greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone to> throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a> thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it leads> me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it invades> many areas of life.> > I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of you,> for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite a> shock.> > And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for> yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Dear Katharine, Thank you for sharing this work with us. I loved your article. I especially loved this part: 'Because only THAT particular person, with its particular nature, has the job of manifesting just exactly that quality. And so I want to laugh and dance and hug myself with the sheer joy of it. Hello, it's you! It's you again! What are you doing here? It's so lovely to see you. And I can say it's love, or it's God, or it's myself; it's all the same.' This touched me a lot, stayed with me. I wrote it out in my special journal for favorite, helpful readings, read it to my husband and longed to know this state more frequently. And I did admire you and think you were spiritually superior and wanted to run to your side and ask you to teach me how to get there! My writing this may be pushing your buttons again and you know would say 'Good!' I, too, am 'horribly familiar' with this need for admiration, validation or specialness as it's called in " A Course in Miracles'. It knows no boundaries in this mind. At different times I want to be the wisest, the most compassionate, the most aware, the most honest, the happiest etc. I am learning not to be ashamed of this but to be honest about it, look at it and see how it keeps the whole ego system intact, keeps me separate from others and from myself. It is very painful at moments. These words from help me: 'The ego is a child that has been shut down and never allowed out to play. If the most vile thought comes through me, I want to play with it. Now it's time to play. We have a key, it's called The Work. Eventually the grandiosity and specialness of the ego is accepted like an innocent child, so the ego just gets kinder and kinder. It's a beginning.' Good to be able to air some of this 'vile' stuff. Love, Margaret > > > Dear Family, > > > > If you visit my website, www.EclecticSpirituality.com, you will see a > > lovely article—which had it's roots here in a post to > > Loving-what—is—penned (keyboarded?) by our own resident advaitin, > > Katharine . > > > > It's called " To Love (and Be) a Tree " ...and it's a must-read! > > > > Enjoy. > > > > Love, > > Carol S. > > www.EclecticSpirituality. > > Whoah! Dear everyone… Please may I share with you my story about > this. (Help! I'm morphing into an American! Only Americans say > 'share'…) > So - first up - a little thrill - oh so innocent - of pleasure. And > then, a feeling, horribly familiar, which translates into thoughts like: > people are going to think well of me - I'm clever and successful, and > they're going to see that and admire me - they're even (maybe) going to > think I'm spiritually superior… > YEUCHHHHH! So - we do the Work. > I need people to appreciate me, praise me, admire me, make a fuss of > me. Is it true? Well, no. > People should do all this? Of course not. Not my business anyway. > How do I react when they do? Adrenaline rush. Short-lived experience > of pleasure, followed by anxiety. > > (So then I'm insecure? Evidently. I should not be insecure? Is that > true? Not necessarily. How do I react when I feel this way? How do I > treat people? I subtly put them down. I create a threat. I become a > little too loud. I talk too much, and too fast. (Charming….) Who > would I be without this concept? Nicer. More forgiving, more > generous. Turnaround. My thinking should not be insecure. I am happy > to feel insecure.) > > How do I react when they fail to appreciate, praise, admire etc.? I > feel disappointed, 'put down', insulted even, a failure. (Oh > puh-lease!) > Reason to let go? Lots. Reason to keep? Nary a one. > Who would I be without that thought? Strong. True. Free. > Turnaround: I need me to appreciate me. Yes. The real me, not the > false picture of me. > I need me to appreciate, praise, admire, make a > fuss of other people. Certainly. > I don't need people to appreciate me, praise me > etc. True. > People should ignore me - if they want to. Of > course - they're busy. And it's > not my business. > I should not ignore myself. True. I do. I often > ignore the moment when I could > investigate or learn something. I put it off, or > treat other things as more important. > > Well that feels a bit better - though I'm still not sure I've got to the > bottom of this one. It seems to be about pride, and about claiming. > The truth is, I know I did not really write that article, although these > hands typed it out, and this mind heard the words as they arose. But > the words themselves just came. All I did - if anything - was kind of > guide them onto the page - just a matter of watching them carefully to > see they don't get out of line. Maybe that's why it feels so false and > uncomfortable when I find I'm wanting admiration. It's like a kind of > greedy, rather squalid, scrabbling - like a dog waiting for someone to > throw it scraps of food. I've never really noticed before what a > thoroughly unpleasant taste it has - and how very unpleasantly it leads > me to behave. And the more I consider this, the more I find it invades > many areas of life. > > I think I've got a lot more work to do on this. Thank you, all of you, > for helping me to notice what's going on. ly, it's been quite a > shock. > > And thank you Carol, for your kind words - and Laurie, thank you for > yours. Really. The bit of me that is sane does truly appreciate them. > > Love you all > > Katharine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 The ego is a child that has been shut down and never allowed out to play. Oh my God that is so true! Boy does that bring up some stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Dear Margaret, Thank you for your very sweet and generous response. Youwrote: 'At different times I want to be the wisest, the most compassionate, the most aware, the most honest, the happiest etc. I am learning not to be ashamed of this but to be honest about it, look at it and see how it keeps the whole ego system intact, keeps me separate from others and from myself. It is very painful at moments. These words from help me:'The ego is a child that has been shut down and never allowed out to play. If the most vile thought comes through me, I want to play with it. Now it's time to play. We have a key, it's called The Work. Eventually the grandiosity and specialness of the ego is accepted like an innocent child, so the ego just gets kinder and kinder. It's a beginning.' Good to be able to air some of this 'vile' stuff.' Isn't it just? And thank you for that. 's wisdom is extraordinary. Love Katharine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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