Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think the anger and oppositional behavior you see may be a defense mechanism. This is what I see in my son and after years of the wrong therapy and med trials, I am convinced that he is acting out because he feels powerless over his intrusive thoughts and is afraid to face his anxieties and fears. We tried many mood stabilizers ect for his anger and oppositional behavior and it didn't help, some meds made him much worse. The only thing that is helping is the ERP in my opinion. I don't think that some practitioners realize how hard it is for kids (who have few coping skills and may not be not be adept at describing feelings or solving problems) to confront the issues that cause them suffering every day. You can compare it to a toddler who is hungry or tired, but cannot use words or tools to get his needs met - a toddler tantrums. I would ask the therapist if this could be the case. See how she responds. While it's true to some extent that the child has to be ready to do ERP, I think a therapist who uses this as an excuse is not going to be able to help. I think that a good therapist would do talk therapy and work on getting the child ready for ERP. I will share how my son's therapist handles his resistance and will be interested to know how you fare. Bonnie > > My daughter, (15) and I, went to see her new therapist who specializes in OCD/ERP. This was our second visit and he and I got to talk alone for a bit before she went in. Well - I am now completely confused. He said that he suspects that she does not have OCD. That he sees depression, anger, manipulativeness and oppositional behavior. We have seen a DAN Dr., a homeopath, a functional neurologist, another psychologist and they all tell me different things and I am just so frustrated. > > The last psychologist diagnosed her with OCD although she felt there were sensory issues mixed with it. She recommended intensive CBT/ERP. Now when I finally get to agree to it, we are off in another direction. The first bunch of professionals felt she was very toxic from heavy metals and chronic viral/bacterial stuff. The functional neurologist says the same and wants to balance the right/left brain and continue to with supplements to detox her. > > The new therapist wants to take some time to get to know and establish a relationship with her and then we will go from there. I sense that he is good at what he does and he certainly is very experienced with OCD as it is his specialty. He said that because true OCD is anxiety-based, if she does not have anxiety, the ERP will not work. > > When I told my husband, he said what about the hand washing, what about not being able to touch anything? I wonder too. I do know that I have always felt that she does not have the obsessive thoughts. Her issues have always been tied up with sensory/feelings. She washes her hands because she feels a film on them that she has to get off. If she touches things other than her own stuff, she feels this film and has to wash. She is now spitting and she says it is a feeling in her mouth that she has to spit to get rid of. > > Well, anyway, that's where we are now.... > > Sandy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Hi, Sandy. How frustrating for you. ( I have just a few thoughts here . . . . First of all, many therapists say they treat OCD, yet really don't know how. And SOME therapists I called (while we were searching for a therapist) on the ocfoundation.org list said they were specialists, but when I started questioning them further, I realized they didn't really know OCD. One literally got off on a tangent about aliens from outer space. He was so out there that I didn't want to ask him what he thought the connection between OCD and aliens was. lol It's funny. . NOW! Yet another on that list, was on probation, for an inappropriate situation, sexual in nature, with a patient. Yikes! Yet, still he was posted there. But, our son's current therapist is also listed there, and he is excellent. He REALLY gets OCD, and has helped our son so much. I don't know if that is where you got this therapist, and I'm not even saying he is not a good therapist, but just saying if they are listed there, it does not necessarily mean they are good at treating OCD, since nobody screens them before they list there. So, even there you have to be informed about the correct treatment to be able to discern if they know what they are talking about. Secondly, I don't completely agree with your therapist's assessment. OCD is an anxiety disorder, but some OCD does not neccesarily have anxiety attached to it. Some OCD causes them to feel like things have to be " just right " . Our son had many OCD rituals he did based on it needing things to feel " just right " . He did not feel anxious about those specific things, he just kept doing them until it felt the way his OCD needed, before he would be able to move on. Those were the easiest things for him to conquer once he started CBT/ERP therapy. And the ERP worked wonderfully on those things. Sensory stuff often goes hand in hand with OCD. That is very common. Some with OCD do not experience what one would refer to as " intrusive thoughts " . And some OCD does not necessarily have a thought that provokes it as much as a feeling. Anyway, that was the case with our son. With his OCD that needed to feel " just right " , it wasn't about a thought the initiated the ritual, but rather, a feeling that needed to be addressed, or it wouldn't go away. He would get stuck, on a feeling, driven by his OCD, that " whatever it was at the moment " needed to be addressed, until it felt right. If the therapist you went to does not understand this, you might consider looking elsewhere. I'm tending to agree with the first psychologist, from what you've shared. Another good place to search for a good therapist is anxiety clinics. Because OCD falls in that category of " anxiety disorder " , they often understand OCD and how to treat it correctly. Another tip, interview the therapist over the phone before you decide to make an appointment for a visit. Talk to them for a bit, and ask them questions to see if they truly understand OCD and how to treat it. Ask them if they treated people successfully before, who have suffered from OCD. And if they say yes, ask them for specifics on how they did it. They should explain ERP to you in describing how they applied treatment. If not, move on and find someone who does. Sorry, it's become so complicated for you. I remember well what that was like. So many have different opinions and different approaches. But, the only proven, evidence based treatment for OCD, is CBT/ERP. It doesn't mean other things cannot be researched and tried, but CBT/ERP should be tried first. Hugs, BJ > > My daughter, (15) and I, went to see her new therapist who specializes in OCD/ERP. This was our second visit and he and I got to talk alone for a bit before she went in. Well - I am now completely confused. He said that he suspects that she does not have OCD. That he sees depression, anger, manipulativeness and oppositional behavior. We have seen a DAN Dr., a homeopath, a functional neurologist, another psychologist and they all tell me different things and I am just so frustrated. > > The last psychologist diagnosed her with OCD although she felt there were sensory issues mixed with it. She recommended intensive CBT/ERP. Now when I finally get to agree to it, we are off in another direction. The first bunch of professionals felt she was very toxic from heavy metals and chronic viral/bacterial stuff. The functional neurologist says the same and wants to balance the right/left brain and continue to with supplements to detox her. > > The new therapist wants to take some time to get to know and establish a relationship with her and then we will go from there. I sense that he is good at what he does and he certainly is very experienced with OCD as it is his specialty. He said that because true OCD is anxiety-based, if she does not have anxiety, the ERP will not work. > > When I told my husband, he said what about the hand washing, what about not being able to touch anything? I wonder too. I do know that I have always felt that she does not have the obsessive thoughts. Her issues have always been tied up with sensory/feelings. She washes her hands because she feels a film on them that she has to get off. If she touches things other than her own stuff, she feels this film and has to wash. She is now spitting and she says it is a feeling in her mouth that she has to spit to get rid of. > > Well, anyway, that's where we are now.... > > Sandy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sandy, has to be frustrating but go with your gut feeling on this. LOL, if you don't have a gut feeling yet, just give it time, observe. She doesn't have to have any obsessive thoughts for it to be OCD. And just to confuse you more, OCD can bring out manipulativeness and opposition...and depression and anger! The new therapist sounds pretty good though, nice he wants to spend some time with her, that will give HIM time to see " what is what " hopefully. Anxiety can be hard to " see " with OCD sometimes. If couldn't wash her hands when she wanted to, would she get upset or anxious?? If she just had to spit but couldn't (not in a good location to spit), could she just swallow the spit or would she get all upset and hold it until she could spit it out? There may be some sensory issues that she could use help with, like occupational therapy. Quick thoughts. Hang in there, see how things go with the new therapist at the next couple of appts. > > My daughter, (15) and I, went to see her new therapist who specializes in OCD/ERP. This was our second visit and he and I got to talk alone for a bit before she went in. Well - I am now completely confused. He said that he suspects that she does not have OCD. That he sees depression, anger, manipulativeness and oppositional behavior. We have seen a DAN Dr., a homeopath, a functional neurologist, another psychologist and they all tell me different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well, this man does seem to know OCD. His website (http://overcomeocd.net/) is all about CBT and ERP and he has a support group running for his patients and their families so he does appear to have a good background in treating OCD. I think he is seeing something in that doesn't fit with what he would define as OCD. On his website he has a list of things that look like OCD but are not and I am thinking that is what he sees in . It is on this page (http://overcomeocd.net/phenom.html). What do you think? Sandy > > > > My daughter, (15) and I, went to see her new therapist who specializes in OCD/ERP. This was our second visit and he and I got to talk alone for a bit before she went in. Well - I am now completely confused. He said that he suspects that she does not have OCD. That he sees depression, anger, manipulativeness and oppositional behavior. We have seen a DAN Dr., a homeopath, a functional neurologist, another psychologist and they all tell me different things and I am just so frustrated. > > > > The last psychologist diagnosed her with OCD although she felt there were sensory issues mixed with it. She recommended intensive CBT/ERP. Now when I finally get to agree to it, we are off in another direction. The first bunch of professionals felt she was very toxic from heavy metals and chronic viral/bacterial stuff. The functional neurologist says the same and wants to balance the right/left brain and continue to with supplements to detox her. > > > > The new therapist wants to take some time to get to know and establish a relationship with her and then we will go from there. I sense that he is good at what he does and he certainly is very experienced with OCD as it is his specialty. He said that because true OCD is anxiety-based, if she does not have anxiety, the ERP will not work. > > > > When I told my husband, he said what about the hand washing, what about not being able to touch anything? I wonder too. I do know that I have always felt that she does not have the obsessive thoughts. Her issues have always been tied up with sensory/feelings. She washes her hands because she feels a film on them that she has to get off. If she touches things other than her own stuff, she feels this film and has to wash. She is now spitting and she says it is a feeling in her mouth that she has to spit to get rid of. > > > > Well, anyway, that's where we are now.... > > > > Sandy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sandy, looked at his website, looks like you found a great therapist. Do keep us updated on 's visits and what he thinks. > > Well, this man does seem to know OCD. His website (http://overcomeocd.net/) is all about CBT and ERP and he has a support group running for his patients and their families so he does appear to have a good background in treating OCD. I think he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 His website does sound like he understands OCD, Sandy. But, what you described of her actions/behaviors also sounds like OCD. Do you know what he thinks she is dealing with instead, from his list? Does any of that, on the list, sound like her behavior instead, to you? I can see why you are confused. So sorry. Hugs, BJ > > > > > > My daughter, (15) and I, went to see her new therapist who specializes in OCD/ERP. This was our second visit and he and I got to talk alone for a bit before she went in. Well - I am now completely confused. He said that he suspects that she does not have OCD. That he sees depression, anger, manipulativeness and oppositional behavior. We have seen a DAN Dr., a homeopath, a functional neurologist, another psychologist and they all tell me different things and I am just so frustrated. > > > > > > The last psychologist diagnosed her with OCD although she felt there were sensory issues mixed with it. She recommended intensive CBT/ERP. Now when I finally get to agree to it, we are off in another direction. The first bunch of professionals felt she was very toxic from heavy metals and chronic viral/bacterial stuff. The functional neurologist says the same and wants to balance the right/left brain and continue to with supplements to detox her. > > > > > > The new therapist wants to take some time to get to know and establish a relationship with her and then we will go from there. I sense that he is good at what he does and he certainly is very experienced with OCD as it is his specialty. He said that because true OCD is anxiety-based, if she does not have anxiety, the ERP will not work. > > > > > > When I told my husband, he said what about the hand washing, what about not being able to touch anything? I wonder too. I do know that I have always felt that she does not have the obsessive thoughts. Her issues have always been tied up with sensory/feelings. She washes her hands because she feels a film on them that she has to get off. If she touches things other than her own stuff, she feels this film and has to wash. She is now spitting and she says it is a feeling in her mouth that she has to spit to get rid of. > > > > > > Well, anyway, that's where we are now.... > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm glad you have something you can do for yourself, Sandy. That is a problem for so many who struggle with their kids OCD, they forget to find time for themselves too, AND that is so important! It's impossible to not be stressed and anxious as we watch our kids suffer. Anything we can do to bring our own stress and anxiety under control, benefits everyone. ) Hugs, BJ > > Thanks, BJ. You are not obnoxious in any way(: I really appreciate the help. I am off this morning to my therapist who is wonderful. She does EFT (tapping) with me and it seems to really help my own anxiety about all this stuff... > > Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Sandy my therapist does eft w/me as well. (my son is the one w/the ocd) and I am wondering if you have used EFT w/your daughter's ocd and if there has been any success. She has recommended it, but I haven't had him try it. It does work with me though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 We tried many different types of therapy, for many years, including EFT and EMDR. We also tried talk therapy, relaxation techniques, visualization, breathing exercises, and other things that are not typically the norm, in desperation to help our son. All of the therapists said they treated OCD, so we tried what they recommended. Nothing helped, until we found someone who used the evidence based treatment of CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and ERP (exposure and response prevention). It was the first time we saw any improvement. Nothing else touched the OCD. Some of the relaxation stuff can help a bit with the anxiety attached to the obsessive thoughts, but the CBT/ERP, along with meds, helped the get the thoughts under control, and in most cases disappear, so that the source of the anxiety (the obsessions) was eliminated. That made the need to do the rituals (the compulsions), mental and physical, to disappear. BJ > > Sandy my therapist does eft w/me as well. (my son is the one w/the ocd) and I am wondering if you have used EFT w/your daughter's ocd and if there has been any success. She has recommended it, but I haven't had him try it. It does work with me though! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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