Re: Introversion, extroversion, and recovery

[Guest guest]

Vornan You have a point as I alluded to in a previous post about lightening up. I am a bit of a rogue, even though I am 47, I still do my rounds, not big into the party scene, however, don't mind having a few people over for drinks and karaoke. I live in Kuwait, so there is a good bit of house parties going on since alcohol is forbidden. I am a mid level manager in an American company (no name) and I have spent the last 10 years overseas. Most of it in the Air Force until I retired the other year. So instead of pondering existential reasons and the devil in the details why having trouble getting a hard-on, try a little comedy and party as medicine. My lifestyle does not alleviate depression, but I believe it contributes to only getting a marginal side effect of retrograde ejaculation from SSRIs. As far as libido goes, a slight breeze will do. Just my

thought"Vornan-19 (moderator)" wrote: I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or, puttingit another way, I don't see many people in the group who are going outto parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some guys onthe finasteride group who have become total recluses from civilizationsince they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing too muchcan influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to recover? Onthe other

hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as possible,perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.Vornan

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[Guest guest]

Hi Vornan,

I would have thought that, if engagement helps (which

I would expect it will), it wouldn't make a big

difference whether this is spiritual (introvert) or

social engagement, or a combo.

In my case the onset of PSSD coincided with a big

increase in both types of engagement though (ongoing),

but as you read in the previous paragraph, I stay

optimistic! (cos I'm a born optimist, I guess).

JR

--- " Vornan-19 (moderator) "

wrote:

>

> I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be

> introverted. Or, putting

> it another way, I don't see many people in the group

> who are going out

> to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even

> seen some guys on

> the finasteride group who have become total recluses

> from civilization

> since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if

> withdrawing too much

> can influence brain chemistry and make it even

> harder to recover? On

> the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a

> life as possible,

> perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

>

> Vornan

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Vornan, I do go out in an effort to feel better I have become a regular at a local bar. It can be difficult as sex is so important to everyone and always one of the main topics of conversation. I actually confided in one fellow, and he has similar problems due to diabetes. Sort of weird, but I guess misery loves company. Mostly I have to listen to healthy young people talk about their exploits, so it can be very alienating. I just really wish I had never resorted to anti-depressants, they really have messed me up. riomaxblue"Vornan-19 (moderator)" wrote: I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or, puttingit another way, I don't see many people in the group who are going outto parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some guys onthe finasteride group who have become total recluses from civilizationsince they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing too muchcan influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to recover? Onthe other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as possible,perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.Vornan

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[Guest guest]

Vornan,

I don't really think that withdrawing does anything to your brain

chemistry. However, it is important to at least try and immerse

yourself back into your old life.

I got my issues with sexual dysfunction when I was a senior in high

school and it persisted through college and to this day. I did go

out to parties and such. However, at most of those parties I

couldn't enjoy myself unless I was completely wasted. Everyone was

into hip hop then and grinding with a girl is of course the style of

dancing. I didn't want to do this after a while because I didn't

get much pleasure from doing that.

I didn't try and persue many girls for a relationship because I did

not want them to find out about my problem. A lot of these girls

were ones that I liked at the time and even had the courage to ask

me out. There were some one night stands where I didn't care if the

girl knew I was limp...I just had to try and see the true extent of

the damage that Prozac did to me. It was very bad! As time went

on, I stopped caring about parties and stopped drinking because it

was making my depression / bipolar disorder worse.

The worst part about it is that everyone wonders why I don't have a

girlfriend because I am fortunately a decent looking guy with a good

personality. I have to give them all sorts of lame excuses and I

don't even remember what excuse I told to which person. I am 25

years old now and I see my friends getting into more serious

relationships and even getting married and this makes me jealous. I

still go out and try my best to have fun. I will still go to bars

and clubs and I do a lot of other activities too. I am old enough

now to not have any peer pressure.

Going on and off SSRIs, benzodiazapines, anti-convulsants and

atypical anti-psychotic medications for the last nine years makes

living a normal life impossible. This is not only because of the

sexual dysfunction, but the lack of feeling any real emotion. My

emotional level is either sad or neutral. I wish I never took

Prozac in the first place. I am a lot worse now than I was before

taking it.

>

>

> I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or,

putting

> it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are going

out

> to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some

guys on

> the finasteride group who have become total recluses from

civilization

> since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing too

much

> can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to recover?

On

> the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as possible,

> perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

>

> Vornan

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting perspectives.

Aren't social withdrawal, introversion and a somewhat reclusive

lifestyle part and parcel of the whole 'depression' experience? How

many of us have gotten it into our minds that all we need to do is

just STOP ACTING DEPRESSED, and our depression will go away. We get

up in the morning with a feeling of determination, go into work,

greeting our co-workers with smiles, put on some happy music, and just

tell ourselves that we're not going to be sad anymore. Not anymore.

Maybe it works this one day. Maybe one or two more. But soon you

realize that this false happiness is just that- false. This

realization usually comes when a real challenge to your buoyancy comes

along- trouble at work, an argument with a friend or loved one, a

traffic accident, an unexpected bill- and suddenly your lungs feel

tired of trying to inflate your own hot air balloon, and you realize

you'd never even gotten off the ground, and were only standing on your

tip-toes. Then you sit back down onto the ground and feel that its

hopeless, this is just the way you are, you can't do anything about it.

Isn't this the cycle that we find ourselves stuck in before we turn to

medication?

Isn't telling a depressed person to get out and have fun like telling

someone who's paralyzed to get up and walk? Or something like that,

excuse the bad analogy.

I understand that we influence our brain chemistry through our

actions, but the brain chemistry is a sypmtom, its not the source.

Rather than trying to 'live a normal life' (whatever 'normal' means.

people who aren't 'depressed' find happiness in varied lifestyles,

which are we to emulate?), or trying to 'correct' our brain chemistry,

we need to understand the cause.

Our lifestyle is a symptom. It is not the cause.

What is the cause?

Some of us may recognize that events/experiences in our lives have

lead us to a depressed state, some of us may be foggy about how we got

here, some of us may feel that there has been nothing wrong with our

lives and that there is no 'reason' for our depression. Unless your

parents told you everyday when you were a child that you are an

amazing, beautiful being with limitless potential, deserving of

unconditional love, and allowed to make mistakes to learn and grow,

and followed this up by being examples of functional, expressive,

loving, compassionate beings, there are wounds you carry with you to

this day. Ultimately, until we understand and are able to heal the

things that are bringing us down, we will stay down.

Many of us are realizing that the more drugs we take, the more foggy

we become, and it becomes more difficult for us to feel. Our feelings

are our connection to our lives, and the link that will allow us to

reconnect with the ancient pain that brought about our depression.

Our feelings are our path to TRUE HEALING. We are numbing them out,

and we allow THEM (pharmaceutical companies, psychiatrists) to

encourage us to do so, slowly numbing out the rest of our senses.

Blurred vision, loss of sexual appetite and pleasure, dulled emotions.

When we realize that our depression, our brain chemistry and our

willingness to take numbing drugs are all symptoms of our fear of

feeling hurt, we see that we have arrived at a root from which all

branches emanate.

Heal your wounds, my friends. This is our path to freedom.

>

>

> I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or, putting

> it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are going out

> to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some guys on

> the finasteride group who have become total recluses from civilization

> since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing too much

> can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to recover? On

> the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as possible,

> perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

>

> Vornan

>

[Guest guest]

Good post. You make some strong points, eloquently expressed.

Though I still stand by my post that turning away or " inwards " may

be counterproductive. You can only solve so much by insight and

introspection, even if it is learning to heal your wounds. At some

point you have to act. And I think the best way to act is to get

out, do things, and be among people. A lot of people with

depression or PSSD seem to withdraw (and I'm not claimimg to be

different), and I think it makes things worse, or less likely that

your brain will return to normal. By normal I mean the state it was

in before drugs, more or less.

Vornan

> >

> >

> > I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or,

putting

> > it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are

going out

> > to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some

guys on

> > the finasteride group who have become total recluses from

civilization

> > since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing

too much

> > can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to

recover? On

> > the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as

possible,

> > perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

> >

> > Vornan

> >

>

[Guest guest]

One disareement: I don't agree that lifestyle is a symptom rather

than a cause of depression. At least, I know for sure that in my

case my lifestyle was definitely unhealthy and causing my anxiety (I

never really had depression). It may not be the case for everyone,

but there is no doubt about for me. If I could talk to myself five

years ago, and I could have convinced myself to change my lifestyle,

I'm sure I could have cured myself of the anxieties. But I didn't

get the proper advice and was pushed onto drugs.

Vornan

-- In SSRIsex , " visuddha108 " wrote:

>

> Interesting perspectives.

>

> Aren't social withdrawal, introversion and a somewhat reclusive

> lifestyle part and parcel of the whole 'depression' experience?

How

> many of us have gotten it into our minds that all we need to do is

> just STOP ACTING DEPRESSED, and our depression will go away. We

get

> up in the morning with a feeling of determination, go into work,

> greeting our co-workers with smiles, put on some happy music, and

just

> tell ourselves that we're not going to be sad anymore. Not

anymore.

>

> Maybe it works this one day. Maybe one or two more. But soon you

> realize that this false happiness is just that- false. This

> realization usually comes when a real challenge to your buoyancy

comes

> along- trouble at work, an argument with a friend or loved one, a

> traffic accident, an unexpected bill- and suddenly your lungs feel

> tired of trying to inflate your own hot air balloon, and you

realize

> you'd never even gotten off the ground, and were only standing on

your

> tip-toes. Then you sit back down onto the ground and feel that its

> hopeless, this is just the way you are, you can't do anything

about it.

>

> Isn't this the cycle that we find ourselves stuck in before we

turn to

> medication?

>

> Isn't telling a depressed person to get out and have fun like

telling

> someone who's paralyzed to get up and walk? Or something like

that,

> excuse the bad analogy.

>

> I understand that we influence our brain chemistry through our

> actions, but the brain chemistry is a sypmtom, its not the source.

> Rather than trying to 'live a normal life' (whatever 'normal'

means.

> people who aren't 'depressed' find happiness in varied lifestyles,

> which are we to emulate?), or trying to 'correct' our brain

chemistry,

> we need to understand the cause.

>

> Our lifestyle is a symptom. It is not the cause.

>

> What is the cause?

>

> Some of us may recognize that events/experiences in our lives have

> lead us to a depressed state, some of us may be foggy about how we

got

> here, some of us may feel that there has been nothing wrong with

our

> lives and that there is no 'reason' for our depression. Unless your

> parents told you everyday when you were a child that you are an

> amazing, beautiful being with limitless potential, deserving of

> unconditional love, and allowed to make mistakes to learn and grow,

> and followed this up by being examples of functional, expressive,

> loving, compassionate beings, there are wounds you carry with you

to

> this day. Ultimately, until we understand and are able to heal the

> things that are bringing us down, we will stay down.

>

> Many of us are realizing that the more drugs we take, the more

foggy

> we become, and it becomes more difficult for us to feel. Our

feelings

> are our connection to our lives, and the link that will allow us to

> reconnect with the ancient pain that brought about our depression.

> Our feelings are our path to TRUE HEALING. We are numbing them

out,

> and we allow THEM (pharmaceutical companies, psychiatrists) to

> encourage us to do so, slowly numbing out the rest of our senses.

> Blurred vision, loss of sexual appetite and pleasure, dulled

emotions.

>

> When we realize that our depression, our brain chemistry and our

> willingness to take numbing drugs are all symptoms of our fear of

> feeling hurt, we see that we have arrived at a root from which all

> branches emanate.

>

> Heal your wounds, my friends. This is our path to freedom.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or,

putting

> > it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are

going out

> > to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some

guys on

> > the finasteride group who have become total recluses from

civilization

> > since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing

too much

> > can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to

recover? On

> > the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as

possible,

> > perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

> >

> > Vornan

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree one of the paradoxes of depression is that what you need

most to get you through is love and support from others. But other

people do not always understand depression and think you just want

to be left alone or do not know what to say to help. At the same

time when you are depressed you just want to be alone. So you have a

horrible catch-22. You do not want to go out and when you do people

think you are pushing them away.

Although my depression has been unremitting the happiest ive felt

was when I felt part of a group and with people who care about me. I

do not think partying would have helped as you can feel alone in a

crowd of people. But you do have to get out there to meet people.

What depressed people need is proper friendships not just endless

acquaintances.

Ironically too the best antidepressant Ive ever been on was called

infatuation. While I have no sex drive I am still capable of

romantic feelings for women. And when reciprocated I smile a lot and

just feel on a cloud. Of course dating while depressed is inherently

difficult not least for us because of our er problems downstairs.

In fact my main motivation for joining this website is I have a

stunning new girlfriend who any red-blooded male WITHOUT post SSRI

sexual dysfunction would want to whisk off to a hotel room and never

leave. The irony being she ends up with me and has made it clear she

wants me.

[Guest guest]

For me after SSRI, interacting with people is very stressful for

somereason, Recently I went on totaling 3 trips with different friends

but usually I would have enjoyed it but throughout all 3 trips I could

not have fun at all, instead I got so agitated and angry I wanted beat

them up instead. They prob knew something was wrong with me, I became

very antisocial during th trip. Nowdays even my mom just saying hi to

me irritate the hell out of me. I have been trying though to relive my

old pattern life hoping something with click back together but right

now people seems to sense my anger a lot and tends to runaway from me

but on the other side some people are actually attracted towards my

angry behavior.

[Guest guest]

Hi Vornan,

I agree with you that we must take action. However, taking action

without healing is like tossing seeds for beautiful flowers over a

garden that is over grown with weeds. In order for the flowers to

grow, we have to pull the weeds up by the root.

I understand your objection to the hypothesis that our lifestyles are

symptoms. I suspect, however, that your behavior during the period

before you went on medications was driven by certain core beliefs that

you have carried subconsciously. Did you at the time feel that you

always needed to be 'doing' something? Did you feel that your self-

worth was based on your productivity or success? Did you feel a

desire to prove to yourself and others that you were capable? Did you

simultaneously doubt, fear or distrust your self-worth or capability?

In general, our actions are driven by our subconscious beliefs about

ourselves and the world that we live in.

Forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know.

When you were growing up, did you feel pressure to succeed? Did you

believe that 'idle hands are the devil's tools'? Were your parents

successful, anxious or fearful about their responsibilities, or

constantly striving to prove themselves?

If any of these things ring true, it is most likely the case that your

lifestyle was a symptom. If not, I'm sorry to project my own beliefs

upon your experience.

Visuddha

> > >

> > >

> > > I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted. Or,

> putting

> > > it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are

> going out

> > > to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen some

> guys on

> > > the finasteride group who have become total recluses from

> civilization

> > > since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if withdrawing

> too much

> > > can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to

> recover? On

> > > the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as

> possible,

> > > perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

> > >

> > > Vornan

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Visuddha,

Sorry for the late reply. From this post and your other one, it's

obvious that you've thought about this very deeply, and I don't

disagree with anything. You're pretty much spot-on with.

I still think an unhealthy lifestyle can lead to depression, and

also maintain it. But perhaps you are right that psychological

issues are usually what lead to the lifestyle problems in the first

place.

Perhaps we can find a middle ground. Taking action and being

proactive about lifestyle changes can help cure depression as long

as one adresses underlying psychological problems as well. I mean,

perhaps a combined approach is best?

Vornan

SSRIsex , " visuddha108 " wrote:

>

> Hi Vornan,

>

> I agree with you that we must take action. However, taking action

> without healing is like tossing seeds for beautiful flowers over a

> garden that is over grown with weeds. In order for the flowers to

> grow, we have to pull the weeds up by the root.

>

> I understand your objection to the hypothesis that our lifestyles

are

> symptoms. I suspect, however, that your behavior during the period

> before you went on medications was driven by certain core beliefs

that

> you have carried subconsciously. Did you at the time feel that you

> always needed to be 'doing' something? Did you feel that your

self-

> worth was based on your productivity or success? Did you feel a

> desire to prove to yourself and others that you were capable? Did

you

> simultaneously doubt, fear or distrust your self-worth or

capability?

> In general, our actions are driven by our subconscious beliefs

about

> ourselves and the world that we live in.

>

> Forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know.

>

> When you were growing up, did you feel pressure to succeed? Did

you

> believe that 'idle hands are the devil's tools'? Were your parents

> successful, anxious or fearful about their responsibilities, or

> constantly striving to prove themselves?

>

> If any of these things ring true, it is most likely the case that

your

> lifestyle was a symptom. If not, I'm sorry to project my own

beliefs

> upon your experience.

>

> Visuddha

>

>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I've noticed that quite a lot of us seem to be introverted.

Or,

> > putting

> > > > it another way, I don't see many people in the group who are

> > going out

> > > > to parties and tearing it up every night. I've even seen

some

> > guys on

> > > > the finasteride group who have become total recluses from

> > civilization

> > > > since they got their sexual problems. I wonder if

withdrawing

> > too much

> > > > can influence brain chemistry and make it even harder to

> > recover? On

> > > > the other hand, if one tried to lead as normal a life as

> > possible,

> > > > perhaps it would speed recovery. Just a thought.

> > > >

> > > > Vornan

> > > >

> > >

> >

>