Re: Grip Assistance Apparatus

[Guest guest]

Hobman may also be able to give some pointers on the hook grip as he has

done both OL and PL competitions.

While it diminishes the bicep tear potential, you are putting other structures

at risk.  The lesser control of the bar position by not using a mixed grip also

means you may have other strains and concerns if you do not properly manage the

lift off from the floor.  That is, if the bar drifts out, you can face

increased potential for lower back strains and other stresses you would not

normally get with a mixed grip and more control of the bar overall.  The more

usual tendency though is to slam your shins harder with the bar lol. 

The position can seem more natural to rowers for example, a similar levering

back feeling on take off...

You also get more strain to the AC joints (front of shoulders) due to the

overhand grip.  The lifter also needs to properly position shoulders and arms

in order to make sure you can properly lock your shoulders.  Experiment with a

bar and you may understand what I'm saying here.  Depending on foot position

and other biomechanical things, you may find the proper locked out shoulder

position more difficult to get with a double overhand.  Part of the stress also

may come by way of heavy bench presses too fyi...

Experiment and see what works best for you.   I do some of my rack pulls with

straps and a double overhand if my left shoulder is a bit tired.  (Since I'm

right handed, sometimes my L shoulder ends up a bit more fatigued through a

program and I have to be careful of it.)  It's also easier for me to get the

straps on there for a double overhand, bit more fun doing it with the mixed

handle.

Try it with a light weight and see if your shoulders and other parts are ok with

using it first.  The thumb is easily injured and you should see if you can use

the grip.  those who type a lot for a living may find it isn't a good option

for them.  The surgery to fix a blown Carpal-Metacarpal joint in the thumb is

very painful and I have a friend who had to quit PL due to the injury and

pain. 

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing drug free powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

============================

Re: Grip Assistance Apparatus

>

> Hi Damon,

>

> I agree that apparatus is not a substitute for grip training. I don't use

> straps for singles or for 2s or 3s. However, my guess is that even someone

> who has a grip that is more than sufficient to hold the heaviest DL he/she

> is capable of for 1s, 2s, or 3s, will have problems with a lesser weight

> that he tries to hold for 10s or 12s with true maximum effort. Of course,

> most competitive powerlifters--at least to the extent of my

> knowledge--seldom do sets of 10 or 12. I train for general strength, mass,

> and fitness, and I feel they work well in that context. I suppose,

> theoretically, it would be possible to develop a grip that could meet any

> challenge (i.e., if the body can pull the weight, the grip can hold it).

> But that would take additional training time that I just don't have.

>

> I would also like to find a set of leather wrist straps--the kind with two

> buckles per. My current pair--30+ years old--is nearing the end.

>

> Thanks for your response.

>

> Pitruzzello, Ph.D.

> Chicago, IL

>

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:20 AM, and Damon

> < muscle_couple@... <muscle_couple%40yahoo.com> >wrote:

>

> > Tony, why not train to increase your grip strength? Seems like the more

> > " help " you use, the weaker your grip will become. I train my clients to

> stop

> > using straps for the deadlift, even though they cannot hold teh same

> amount

> > they can deadlift. Usually, after 4-6 weeks, the grip has caught up.

> Straps

> > should work fine, if you really must use them. If they do not provide

> enough

> > support, you may be using them improperly.

> >

> > MAJ Damon Wells, M.S.

> > West Point, NY

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Sometimes, I want to do deadlifts or partials for maximum load (max

> > weight +

> > > relatively high reps). Especially given that I have relatively small

> > hands,

> > > I usually lose my grip before I'm fully out of steam. I've used straps

> > and

> > > Grizzly " claws. " Neither is fully satisfactory. Has anyone tried Versa

> > > Grips, Haulin Hooks, or any of the other devices?

> > >

> > > --

> > > J. Pitruzzello, Ph.D.

> > > Chicago, Illinois

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

--

J. Pitruzzello, Ph.D.

Chicago, Illinois

[Guest guest]

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned rope climbing as a workout that could

benefit grip strength. It can be difficult to find a climbing rope, especially

differing sizes (thickness) of rope, but I distinctly remember the discomfort of

a 30ft rope climb!

Lewin

[Mod: Please don't forget to sign your posts with your full name, country and

city of residence]

>

>

> Hobman may also be able to give some pointers on the hook grip as he has

done both OL and PL competitions.

>

> While it diminishes the bicep tear potential, you are putting other structures

at risk. The lesser control of the bar position by not using a mixed grip also

means you may have other strains and concerns if you do not properly manage the

lift off from the floor. That is, if the bar drifts out, you can face

increased potential for lower back strains and other stresses you would not

normally get with a mixed grip and more control of the bar overall. The more

usual tendency though is to slam your shins harder with the bar lol.Â

>

> The position can seem more natural to rowers for example, a similar levering

back feeling on take off...

>

> You also get more strain to the AC joints (front of shoulders) due to the

overhand grip. The lifter also needs to properly position shoulders and arms

in order to make sure you can properly lock your shoulders. Experiment with a

bar and you may understand what I'm saying here. Depending on foot position

and other biomechanical things, you may find the proper locked out shoulder

position more difficult to get with a double overhand. Part of the stress also

may come by way of heavy bench presses too fyi...

>

> Experiment and see what works best for you.  I do some of my rack pulls

with straps and a double overhand if my left shoulder is a bit tired. (Since

I'm right handed, sometimes my L shoulder ends up a bit more fatigued through a

program and I have to be careful of it.)Â It's also easier for me to get the

straps on there for a double overhand, bit more fun doing it with the mixed

handle.

>

> Try it with a light weight and see if your shoulders and other parts are ok

with using it first. The thumb is easily injured and you should see if you can

use the grip. those who type a lot for a living may find it isn't a good

option for them. The surgery to fix a blown Carpal-Metacarpal joint in the

thumb is very painful and I have a friend who had to quit PL due to the injury

and pain.Â

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing drug free powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

[Guest guest]

I got my info on Brad Gillingham and hook grip from him, not from a book.  He

couldn't hang onto the weights his body would be moving with the mixed grip.

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with his lower back!!!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing powerlifter

Denver, colorado, USA

==================================

In Supertraining , Yehoshua Zohar wrote:

>

>

>

> As to the hook grip in the deadlift: would it make a difference if one was

pulling conventionally or Sumo style? I am a Sumo guy myself. I grip the bar

slightly closer to center than a conventional lifter. The hook grip is imported

from OL where the grip is wider than in the Sumo DL. So would it be equally

effective for Sumo deadlifting?

>

>

> Yehoshua Zohar

> Karmiel, Israel

>

[Guest guest]

Hi .

Do you think the opposing grip causes one side of the back to develop

more than the other in the DL? If so, do you believe the opposing grip

should be reversed periodically to balance this out?

I personally use the overhand grip until I get to a point where it isn't

as effective, changing to the opposing grip.

Carson Wood

Westbrook, Maine USA.

Re: Grip Assistance Apparatus

I got my info on Brad Gillingham and hook grip from him, not from a book. He

couldn't hang onto the weights his body would be moving with the mixed grip.

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with his lower back!!!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing powerlifter

Denver, colorado, USA

==================================

In Supertraining , Yehoshua Zohar wrote:

>

>

>

> As to the hook grip in the deadlift: would it make a difference if one was

> pulling conventionally or Sumo style? I am a Sumo guy myself. I grip the

> bar slightly closer to center than a conventional lifter. The hook grip is

> imported from OL where the grip is wider than in the Sumo DL. So would it

> be equally effective for Sumo deadlifting?

>

>

> Yehoshua Zohar

> Karmiel, Israel

>

[Guest guest]

Heya Carson -

I'm aware some people have made a point of switching their mixed grip arms

around, but I've never felt the need to switch off my mixed grip for DL.  Not

only does my back development appear even but the overloads I'm doing would show

a deficit quite markedly and cause the lift to list heavily to one side or some

other noticeable problem.  The strength is even, the lift is even, the arms are

not suffering from 1 overhand and 1 underhand, no shoulder problems from this,

all I can say is in my experience it's not a problem so far.  That's in 12

years. 

The lift that has done any damage and had to be backed off was shirted bench. 

After nearly a year off from bench shirts and lifting just raw even up to a near

maximal single on raw bench, the shoulders are now sufficiently good to attempt

to train OL seriously. 

DL with the same mixed grip  has not hurt my shoulders, despite some

allegations from some that it's hard on the shoulders.  I believe that most

people are missing the bench shirt effect on shoulder health.  With the

extremely heavy shrugs I do, farmer's walk, you name it - I should have " no "

shoulders left after all this over the past few years.  My focus on DL should

have ripped my arms off my body according to some lol.

I think part of the key is to be absolutely sure your start is even off the

floor - your form is perfect in all reps to the best of extents.  If a twist

develops or other noticed shoulder activity, stop and strengthen the upper back,

shrug evenly, work on all of that.  If you're benching, work to raise the bar

evenly and honor the weaker shoulder's strength.  Few people are dead even

strong on both sides...but you can work to get them as close as possible.

I should also point out that years ago after whacking my rhomboids on 1

side, I started working them with a fairly specific move, one of the Kelso

shrugs.  I have found that doing that move post dl and post regular shrug with

about 50% of my max shrug weight seems to help correct that and also build a way

to anchor my arched bench.  Bench arch and DL strength do work well together. 

On shrugs I go to a gym that sports some extremely heavy dumbbells (besides

silly guys using them - just kidding ) and other times I use an appatus

that allows me to load to the sides, not in front of me like a barbell.  I

think some of the confusion with grip and shoulder injuries stems from the use

of barbells in shrugging and other moves that stress the AC's inordinately.  

I do some rack pulls with double overhand to help start the partial lift due to

the awkward spot of having bar on rails.  it's very difficult to properly set

up with a mixed grip and you end up technically " over " the bar sometimes in this

exercise, and that's not a good position for the work you're doing.  I always

have to think to square up my shoulders first with a double overhand or face

being " jammed " on takeoff on that rack pull.

I have always worked with my platform grip in the DL because I want to make sure

the underhand grip KNOWS not to ever bend, and the whole form is now

reflexive.  If I'm thinking about " now which hand do i want up today " this is

an opportunity to fail in one of the basics of DL, never EVER bend your arms. 

You never want to find yourself with a max lift and THINKING in the same

instant!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing drug free powerlifter

Denver, Colorado USA

===============================

Re: Grip Assistance Apparatus

I got my info on Brad Gillingham and hook grip from him, not from a book. He

couldn't hang onto the weights his body would be moving with the mixed grip.

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with his lower back!!!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT/LMT, competing powerlifter

Denver, colorado, USA

==================================

In Supertraining , Yehoshua Zohar wrote:

>

>

>

> As to the hook grip in the deadlift: would it make a difference if one was

> pulling conventionally or Sumo style? I am a Sumo guy myself. I grip the

> bar slightly closer to center than a conventional lifter. The hook grip is

> imported from OL where the grip is wider than in the Sumo DL. So would it

> be equally effective for Sumo deadlifting?

>

>

> Yehoshua Zohar

> Karmiel, Israel

>