Guest guest Posted August 26, 2010 Report Share Posted August 26, 2010 is this caused by edema. 2 cases of : baby less than a week old. mom very large breasted. everything appears normal maybe with a bit of tongue clumsiness, nothing a great latch won't fix... when I try to help the mom shape the breast " sandwich " / " mother led with exaggerated breast shaping " as in Supporting Sucking Skills. the nipple completely inverts and retracts back into the chest wall. This was 2 moms right in a row. The nipple appears flattish but definitely not inverted when left in a natural position. one baby acted blind to the nipple when it is left natural. refusing to even try to latch on. with the other mom, the baby was a few days older and fussed and cried. Both moms are using nipple shields with good success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2010 Report Share Posted August 26, 2010 The teacup hold might help. I've had good success with it for moms with large soft breasts and nipples that don't evert well. Pinch some skin beside the areola. There's a picture of it in Counseling the Nursing Mother, by Judith Lauwers and Swisher. - Subject: retracting nipplesTo: Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 9:39 PM is this caused by edema.2 cases of :baby less than a week old.mom very large breasted. everything appears normal maybe with a bit of tongue clumsiness, nothing a great latch won't fix...when I try to help the mom shape the breast "sandwich"/"mother led with exaggerated breast shaping" as in Supporting Sucking Skills. the nipple completely inverts and retracts back into the chest wall. This was 2 moms right in a row. The nipple appears flattish but definitely not inverted when left in a natural position. one baby acted blind to the nipple when it is left natural. refusing to even try to latch on. with the other mom, the baby was a few days older and fussed and cried. Both moms are using nipple shields with good success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2010 Report Share Posted August 26, 2010 Barbara, Thank you for sharing this video. I am having a hard time picturing the baby in this process. Is baby in clutch/football hold or cradle hold? Thanks! Dee Kassing Subject: retracting nipplesTo: Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 11:11 AM Below is a link my dd sent me earlier today and I watched the you tube video on it, quite good. Basically it's a combo of teacup hold and Glover's tipping nipple away. Also, some time ago, Genna showed me how to use a scissor hold and push the fatty tissue back for latch, which could help. With scissor hold mom just needs to not block area where mandible/lower lip of baby goes. I have use this with success with large-breasted women. Barbara Latterner Blog: peaceful parenting Post: Breastfeeding Latch Trick Link: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2010 Report Share Posted August 27, 2010 So, straight-on clutch hold then. Thank you. DeeLanding the top lip and nose at the 12:00 position. So you perform the tuck, bring the baby to the breast (gaping I presume) then release the tuck and the tissue falls further into the mouth.> > > From: latternerb@... > Subject: retracting nipples> To: > Date: Thursday, August 26, 2010, 11:11 AM> > >  > > > > > Below is a link my dd sent me earlier today and I watched the you tube video on it, quite good. Basically it's a combo of teacup hold and Glover's tipping nipple away. Also, some time ago, Genna showed me how to use a scissor hold and push the fatty tissue back for latch, which could help. With scissor hold mom just needs to not block area where mandible/lower lip of baby goes. I have use this with success with large-breasted women.> Barbara Latterner>  > Blog: peaceful parenting > Post: Breastfeeding Latch Trick > Link: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 Saw one of the two moms and her baby on day 14, original visit was day 4. Edema is gone, breasts still large but soooo much more pliable and squishable. Baby got on several times and nursed to satiety. What a difference. The other mom sent a note that her BF relationship is on track and baby is doing great. I am not sure if they are still using the NS. probably is my guess. Before they were sort of an indescribable texture, like a brand new firm pillow that just won't smoosh the way you want it to, they were not engorged and firm with that milk full feeling. they were just stuffed looked like breast implants moved as one large unit. when we tried to form a narrower cone with the aereola, the nipple retracted and wrinkled inward. This was the second mom I saw in one week like this. RVP helped her get baby on a few times, but otherwise baby needed a nipple sheild to have something to grasp onto. I thought baby's tongue mobility might have been part of the issue. both babies latched on well day one and did great it was betwn day 2-6 that this problem arose. In our area birth is highly intervened upon, both moms got lots3/4 bags of IV fluids. I'd heard about edema being an issue at conferences. I saw a thread in here about suggesting or not suggesting moms try various fruits and veggies or other dietary things for edema. I know there are some things midwives suggest that seem to help some moms. What can it hurt to tell a mom that " some mothers find that eating.... can decrease postpartum swelling " ? The edema was really an insurmountable challenge for these babies for several days. > > Below is a link my dd sent me earlier today and I watched the you tube > video on it, quite good. Basically it's a combo of teacup hold and Glover's > tipping nipple away. Also, some time ago, Genna showed me how to use > a scissor hold and push the fatty tissue back for latch, which could help. > With scissor hold mom just needs to not block area where mandible/lower > lip of baby goes. I have use this with success with large-breasted women. > Barbara Latterner > > Blog: peaceful parenting > Post: Breastfeeding Latch Trick > Link: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 sometimes it's just a waiting game! But watermelon is a great diuretic. I ate some before going to bed the other night and I was sorry! up several times to pee! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From: olliemi2005 Subject: Re: retracting nipplesTo: Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 4:56 PM Saw one of the two moms and her baby on day 14, original visit was day 4. Edema is gone, breasts still large but soooo much more pliable and squishable. Baby got on several times and nursed to satiety. What a difference. The other mom sent a note that her BF relationship is on track and baby is doing great. I am not sure if they are still using the NS. probably is my guess. Before they were sort of an indescribable texture, like a brand new firm pillow that just won't smoosh the way you want it to, they were not engorged and firm with that milk full feeling. they were just stuffed looked like breast implants moved as one large unit. when we tried to form a narrower cone with the aereola, the nipple retracted and wrinkled inward. This was the second mom I saw in one week like this. RVP helped her get baby on a few times, but otherwise baby needed a nipple sheild to have something to grasp onto. I thought baby's tongue mobility might have been part of the issue. both babies latched on well day one and did great it was betwn day 2-6 that this problem arose. In our area birth is highly intervened upon, both moms got lots3/4 bags of IV fluids. I'd heard about edema being an issue at conferences. I saw a thread in here about suggesting or not suggesting moms try various fruits and veggies or other dietary things for edema. I know there are some things midwives suggest that seem to help some moms. What can it hurt to tell a mom that "some mothers find that eating.... can decrease postpartum swelling"? The edema was really an insurmountable challenge for these babies for several days. > > Below is a link my dd sent me earlier today and I watched the you tube > video on it, quite good. Basically it's a combo of teacup hold and Glover's > tipping nipple away. Also, some time ago, Genna showed me how to use > a scissor hold and push the fatty tissue back for latch, which could help. > With scissor hold mom just needs to not block area where mandible/lower > lip of baby goes. I have use this with success with large-breasted women. > Barbara Latterner > > Blog: peaceful parenting > Post: Breastfeeding Latch Trick > Link: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/breastfeeding-latch-trick.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 This is just one of the reasons why I am so reluctant to join the 'band wagon' so to speak of people criticizing the assessment of a previous clinician, things change and this is very evident when you get the opportunity to work with clients immediate postpartum and then follow them over the subsequent days and weeks. The appearance and function of the nipple and areolar tissue on day 5 can be considerably different than what was happening on day 1. Mothers will lose the prenatal tissue fluid they retained during pregnancy over the subsequent postpartum weeks through urination and sweating and so forth. And of course the fluids she may receive from various interventions during birth can so contribute to areolar edema. She can try diuretic foods, and watching her sodium consumption, just maintain good hydration and it should naturally resolve. For mothers with PIH or HELLP they seem to retain the fluid longer in some cases in my experience. Did you mean reverse pressure softening? Which I think can be very beneficial in cases like this. > > > Saw one of the two moms and her baby on day 14, original visit was day 4. Edema is gone, breasts still large but soooo much more pliable and squishable. Baby got on several times and nursed to satiety. What a difference. The other mom sent a note that her BF relationship is on track and baby is doing great. I am not sure if they are still using the NS. probably is my guess. > > Before they were sort of an indescribable texture, like a brand new firm pillow that just won't smoosh the way you want it to, they were not engorged and firm with that milk full feeling. they were just stuffed looked like breast implants moved as one large unit. when we tried to form a narrower cone with the aereola, the nipple retracted and wrinkled inward. This was the second mom I saw in one week like this. > > RVP helped her get baby on a few times, but otherwise baby needed a nipple sheild to have something to grasp onto. I thought baby's tongue mobility might have been part of the issue. both babies latched on well day one and did great it was betwn day 2-6 that this problem arose. > > In our area birth is highly intervened upon, both moms got lots3/4 bags of IV fluids. I'd heard about edema being an issue at conferences. > > I saw a thread in here about suggesting or not suggesting moms try various fruits and veggies or other dietary things for edema. I know there are some things midwives suggest that seem to help some moms. What can it hurt to tell a mom that " some mothers find that eating.... can decrease postpartum swelling " ? The edema was really an insurmountable challenge for these babies for several days. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 yes, Reverse pressure softening (in my haste i mistyped:)). without RPS the nipple was completely flat then as i mentioned retracted when we " squeezed " the breast. on day 14 the nipple shaft was back! not a long shaft but it was there! yay. I didn't charge for a follow up apt, even though my fee is super low...I was really wanting to see the progress so I offered to visit for free. Now I feel stupid that I didn't get paid but will know for next time. After all, the edema which truly prevented the baby from latching on day 4 was not my fault, even though I felt like I failed the client:( > > > > > > Saw one of the two moms and her baby on day 14, original visit was day 4. Edema is gone, breasts still large but soooo much more pliable and squishable. Baby got on several times and nursed to satiety. What a difference. The other mom sent a note that her BF relationship is on track and baby is doing great. I am not sure if they are still using the NS. probably is my guess. > > > > Before they were sort of an indescribable texture, like a brand new firm pillow that just won't smoosh the way you want it to, they were not engorged and firm with that milk full feeling. they were just stuffed looked like breast implants moved as one large unit. when we tried to form a narrower cone with the aereola, the nipple retracted and wrinkled inward. This was the second mom I saw in one week like this. > > > > RVP helped her get baby on a few times, but otherwise baby needed a nipple sheild to have something to grasp onto. I thought baby's tongue mobility might have been part of the issue. both babies latched on well day one and did great it was betwn day 2-6 that this problem arose. > > > > In our area birth is highly intervened upon, both moms got lots3/4 bags of IV fluids. I'd heard about edema being an issue at conferences. > > > > I saw a thread in here about suggesting or not suggesting moms try various fruits and veggies or other dietary things for edema. I know there are some things midwives suggest that seem to help some moms. What can it hurt to tell a mom that " some mothers find that eating.... can decrease postpartum swelling " ? The edema was really an insurmountable challenge for these babies for several days. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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