Guest guest Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Ulf, greetings from the other side of the gulf! Finland and Sweden will have an interesting Eurovision battle this Saturday:) Yesterday on Yahoo's hypogonadism group, one user reported that Stablon had given him " a marked increase in desire for sex " after switching to it from a SSRI. I wonder if you tried Stablon (tianeptine) and did you find it effective? -Cx > > Persistent SSRI sexual side effectsDoes anyone have an on-line pharmacy with Stablon (tianeptine) to recommend? I want to try this SSRI-alternative, but where I live (Sweden) it is not available so my doc told me to find and visit a doc in the producing country (France). It would obviously be easier to order it on-line and it's easy enough to find such pharmacies, but I'm a bit weary of ordering it from someone I don't know. So I hope somebody can point me to a trustworthy on-line supplier that he or she has a good experience of. I know people on this list living in the U.S, where Stablon also not is available, have used the substance. // Ulf > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Cx: Yes, I´m on Stablon now, since eleven days back. I got no indiccation of any reputable Internet seller of it, so after calling 50 doctors in Paris I found one where language problems and availability was no problem, flew there and got a prescription. Tentatively and surprisingly, with some encouraging results. There are signs of partial reemerging libido, but it´s too early to tell the strength and sustainability of it. There are so many instances on this list of people reporting advances, only to a little later say that the thing was no good anymore, or even turned into a nightmare. So I had decided to delay reporting until I have something more definite to say, and I will stick to that. I'll come in with a detailed report in perhaps a few weeks time, or even sooner. Yep, my daughter will be waching us battle over the Eurovision festival, and I will hardly be unaffected... For me I'm just as happy if Finland wins as Sweden, although with Finns winning last or second last time perhaps you would get too big heads if you win again! // Ulf Ulf, greetings from the other side of the gulf! Finland and Sweden will have an interesting Eurovision battle this Saturday:)Yesterday on Yahoo's hypogonadism group, one user reported that Stablon had given him "a marked increase in desire for sex" after switching to it from a SSRI. I wonder if you tried Stablon (tianeptine) and did you find it effective? -Cx>> Persistent SSRI sexual side effectsDoes anyone have an on-line pharmacy with Stablon (tianeptine) to recommend? I want to try this SSRI-alternative, but where I live (Sweden) it is not available so my doc told me to find and visit a doc in the producing country (France). It would obviously be easier to order it on-line and it's easy enough to find such pharmacies, but I'm a bit weary of ordering it from someone I don't know. So I hope somebody can point me to a trustworthy on-line supplier that he or she has a good experience of. I know people on this list living in the U.S, where Stablon also not is available, have used the substance. // Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Vornan, I gradually weaned off Effexor, being on a low dose by day 10 when insomnia struck. A few days later I was off Effexor entirely, and insomnia continued. I'm fine-tuning the Mianserin dose now. Ulf Hi Ulf,Thanks very much for your very interesting and detailed report. I have a question: were you still taking the effexor, even a small dose, at the same time you were taking the Stablon? If so, I could imagine that that could contribute to the insomnia, since the two drugs have opposing actions on serotonin reuptake. I'm not even sure it's safe to take both at once...Vornan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I was on 150mg of Trazadone for a few years to help with sleep problems that were being triggered by other medications. It did not help with sexual functioning at all and the side effects are horrible. I used to get very dizzy shortly after taking it and I always woke up with a " hung over " type of feeling that would last a few hours into the morning. > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a jolt and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my concentration ability. > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect at 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the last 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, was due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, libido came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I still have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When I open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty like it was before. > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; each extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The next few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the insomnia from Stablon. > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that a fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from PSSD is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable side- effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few days. As I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone (40mg or so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 mg, but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of libido enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 mg of oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days even after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that level. // Ulf > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Why not try something different for sleep like ambien, lunesta. I have also had soem success with a combination of chamomile tea and velerian(drips from a bottle). These drugs and herbs may be easier on your system. > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon-derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a jolt and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my concentration ability. > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect at 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the last 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, was due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, libido came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I still have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When I open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty like it was before. > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; each extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The next few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the insomnia from Stablon. > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that a fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from PSSD is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break- through with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable side-effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few days. As I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone (40mg or so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 mg, but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of libido enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 mg of oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days even after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that level. // Ulf > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 I alternate between Benadryl and Melatonin with fairly good results, although after a while my body builds up a tolerance to the Melatonin. I lay off the Melatonin for a while and then go back on it. Bill zant808 wrote: > I was on 150mg of Trazadone for a few years to help with sleep > problems that were being triggered by other medications. It did not > help with sexual functioning at all and the side effects are > horrible. I used to get very dizzy shortly after taking it and I > always woke up with a " hung over " type of feeling that would last a > few hours into the morning. > > > > > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- > derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a jolt > and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with > approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a > drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my > concentration ability. > > > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a > linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect at > 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the last > 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier > post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, was > due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had > reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, libido > came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and > after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by > occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I still > have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI > days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When I > open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty > like it was before. > > > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; each > extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged > feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The next > few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as > precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. > Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the insomnia > from Stablon. > > > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but > confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible > agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the > drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that a > fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from PSSD > is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not > permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through > with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable side- > effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few days. As > I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin > agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse > that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a > treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone (40mg or > so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on > this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 mg, > but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much > lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with > anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of libido > enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified > pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits > serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of > Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from > persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 mg of > oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved > sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days even > after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience > indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, > although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that > level. // Ulf > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 One thing about Benadryl (diphenydramine): it is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor as well as an antihistamine, and was used as the molecular backbone to develop Prozac. So it could cause sexual dysfunction with chronic use. In fact ED is a known side effect. Vornan > > > > > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- > > derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a jolt > > and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with > > approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a > > drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my > > concentration ability. > > > > > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a > > linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect at > > 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the last > > 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier > > post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, was > > due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had > > reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, libido > > came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and > > after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by > > occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I still > > have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI > > days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When I > > open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty > > like it was before. > > > > > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; each > > extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged > > feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The next > > few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as > > precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. > > Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the insomnia > > from Stablon. > > > > > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but > > confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible > > agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the > > drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > > > > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that a > > fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from PSSD > > is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not > > permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through > > with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable side- > > effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few days. As > > I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin > > agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse > > that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a > > treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone (40mg or > > so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on > > this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 mg, > > but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much > > lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with > > anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of libido > > enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified > > pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits > > serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > > > > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of > > Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from > > persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 mg of > > oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved > > sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days even > > after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience > > indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, > > although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that > > level. // Ulf > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Thank you Vornan, I did not realize that. I had never heard of ED being a side effect. I heard that the stucture of Prozac was derived from an antihistamine, but I had never knew it was Benadryl. Guess its going in the trash can immediately. Bill Vornan-19 (moderator) wrote: > One thing about Benadryl (diphenydramine): it is a serotonin reuptake > inhibitor as well as an antihistamine, and was used as the molecular > backbone to develop Prozac. So it could cause sexual dysfunction with > chronic use. In fact ED is a known side effect. > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- > > > derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a > jolt > > > and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with > > > approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a > > > drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my > > > concentration ability. > > > > > > > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a > > > linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect > at > > > 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the > last > > > 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier > > > post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, > was > > > due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had > > > reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, > libido > > > came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and > > > after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by > > > occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I > still > > > have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI > > > days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When > I > > > open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty > > > like it was before. > > > > > > > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; > each > > > extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged > > > feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The > next > > > few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as > > > precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. > > > Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the > insomnia > > > from Stablon. > > > > > > > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but > > > confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible > > > agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the > > > drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > > > > > > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that > a > > > fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from > PSSD > > > is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not > > > permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through > > > with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable > side- > > > effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few > days. As > > > I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin > > > agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse > > > that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a > > > treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone > (40mg or > > > so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on > > > this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 > mg, > > > but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much > > > lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with > > > anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of > libido > > > enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified > > > pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits > > > serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > > > > > > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of > > > Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from > > > persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 > mg of > > > oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved > > > sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days > even > > > after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience > > > indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, > > > although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that > > > level. // Ulf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 I tried Stablon for a week or two about a year ago. It absolutely killed my libido - just like the SSRI-type ad i'd taken before. It seems, though, that it works for some people. > > > > > > > > > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- > > > > derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a > > jolt > > > > and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with > > > > approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a > > > > drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my > > > > concentration ability. > > > > > > > > > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a > > > > linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect > > at > > > > 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the > > last > > > > 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier > > > > post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, > > was > > > > due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had > > > > reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, > > libido > > > > came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and > > > > after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by > > > > occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I > > still > > > > have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI > > > > days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When > > I > > > > open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty > > > > like it was before. > > > > > > > > > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; > > each > > > > extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged > > > > feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The > > next > > > > few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as > > > > precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. > > > > Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the > > insomnia > > > > from Stablon. > > > > > > > > > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but > > > > confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible > > > > agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the > > > > drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > > > > > > > > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that > > a > > > > fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from > > PSSD > > > > is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not > > > > permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through > > > > with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable > > side- > > > > effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few > > days. As > > > > I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin > > > > agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse > > > > that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a > > > > treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone > > (40mg or > > > > so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on > > > > this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 > > mg, > > > > but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much > > > > lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with > > > > anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of > > libido > > > > enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified > > > > pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits > > > > serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of > > > > Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from > > > > persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 > > mg of > > > > oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved > > > > sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days > > even > > > > after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience > > > > indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, > > > > although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that > > > > level. // Ulf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2007 Report Share Posted June 4, 2007 Ulf, How do you know that the low dose mianserin is not contributing to the PSSD? On it's own, maybe it's not enough to cause serious sexual dysfunction, but maybe it can block recovery. Vornan > > I have been on Stablon/Mianserin for 34 days now. The Stablon- derived vivid, intricate dreams that cause me to wake up with a jolt and loose hours of sleep are countered successfully with approximately 25 mg of Mianserin night-time, but at the cost of a drugged feeling the next morning that significantly lowers my concentration ability. > > The libido-enhancing effect I get from Stablon does not have a linear dose-response curve; it seems there is no or little effect at 25 mg, with most or the entire effect probably coming from the last 12.5 mg when I am at a 37.5 mg dose. IIRC, I wrote in an earlier post that the disapperance of libido on my 15th day of Stablon, was due to to sleep deprivation but I was wrong: it was because I had reduced the dose to 25 mg. When I upped the dose to 37.5 mg, libido came back quickly. Even now, on day 34 and at a 37.5 mg dose, and after close to 25 days of severe sleep deprivation complemented by occasional days of drugged feelings from high-dose Mianserin, I still have a distinct libido, although weakened, at say 15 % of pre-SSRI days. It's still a major difference indeed from zero libido. When I open for it, there IS a desire there, it's not just totally empty like it was before. > > The effects of Mianserin seem to be extremely dose-sensitive; each extra mg above 20 mg contributes both significantly to the drugged feeling and to the countering of the insomnia from Stablon. The next few nights I will be cutting up 10 mg Mianserin tablets into as precise fractions of miligrams as possible, aiming for 23-24 mg. Around 22 mg is on most nights not sufficient to counter the insomnia from Stablon. > > In addition, there may be a an agitation effect of Stablon, but confounding factors make this observation uncertain. A possible agitation effect is also masked by the effects of insomnia and the drugged feeling from high-dose Mianserin respectively. > > My experience from Stablon has been a rich one, showing me that a fairly sustained, although not strong, libido reemergence from PSSD is possible. The havoc caused by the SSRI:s on my sexuality is not permanent. However, although I am still hoping for a break-through with further dosage adjustments that would result in tolerable side- effects, I am getting prepared to call it quits within a few days. As I check the gamut of alternatives ranging from TRT to dopamin agonists and on-off cycling of low-dose stimulants, one dark horse that I heard anecdotal evidence of for regaining libido is a treatment of 10 mg selegiline morning and low-dose Trazodone (40mg or so evenings) for regaining libido. Would anyone care to comment on this treatment? Trazodone is an AD with a normal dose of 150-600 mg, but with anecdotal evidence of AD effects for some people at much lower dosages, with sleep-enhancing effects at 25-100 mg and with anecdotal evidence (I´ve not found any significant studies) of libido enhancing effects. Trazodone (Desyrel) is classified pharmacologically as a triazolopyridine and, although it inhibits serotonin reuptake, is not an SSRI. > > Ánother question I hope somebody can comment on is the dosage of Selegiline. I´ve seen dosages from 1.25 to 10 mg and more from persons on this list. I recall Velden, who wrote that just 1.25 mg of oral Selegiline gav him mild pro-sexual effects and much improved sleep. When he upped to 2.5 mg, he was unable to sleep for days even after stopping the medication. I suppose that kind of experience indicates one should be cautious when starting the medication, although I guess AD effects would not be significant at that level. // Ulf > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I held on to Stablon despite the side-effects and have been on it for 44 days now. I think it was Luther who wrote that the brain takes weeks or more to adjust to a medication and that you need to give it the time. My experience with Stablon appears to be a case in point. After about 35 days, I was able to slowly reduce Mianserin enough so that the worst side-effects of it left me but still delivering enough punch to counter the insomnia effects of Stablon. Mianserin is weirdly dose-sensitive, I take it down gram by gram every few nights, cutting up the tiny 10 mg tab in tenths of fractions to the best of my ability. I'm at around 18 mg now, enough to counter the wake-up jolts most nights, but without whacking me out during the day. If I take it down to 16 mg, the night is lost to the wake-up jolts of those vivid Stablon-derived dreams. I´m still at 37.5 mg of Stablon. AD effect is roughly comparable to an SSRI. I´m not quite in top shape, having a certain feeling of agitation during the day. I don´t know if this is caused by the Stablon, by the Mianserin or by external stressors. A disappointment is that libido, for some reason, is weaker than when I first started Stablon. Even if libido were to disappear entirely, I assume the odds are better in being on a non-SSRI than an SSRI in terms of prospects of recovering from PSSD. This appears obvious but I wouldn´t mind getting some reassurance on it. Having gone through those first 35 days, I will stick to Stablon for the time being and see what happens. Perhaps further changes will come. It´s really an advanced game to be experimenting with one´s brain i.e. with oneself. // Ulf .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Vornan wrote: Ulf,How do you know that the low dose mianserin is not contributing to the PSSD? On it's own, maybe it's not enough to cause serious sexual dysfunction, but maybe it can block recovery. Vornan: I thought that if there were any sexual effect of Mianserin, it would be positive, which has been an added incentive for me to be on it. The little I had seen pointed in that way, such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12073168 & dopt=Abstract the conclusion of which is: Conclusions: The use of low-dose mianserin as an add-on treatment to SSRIs appears to be an effective and well tolerated intervention for sexual dysfunction caused by SSRIs. A similar message is found in http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/430614_5 When I saw your message, I started looking more and then I found a study showing the opposite - that Mianserin can be negative for sexuality: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/147/4/413 What could an over-all assessment be of this? // Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 A few people have posted messages on Stablon recently. Is there anybody else with experience of the substance? In particular, I am thinking about long-term effects on sexuality and sleep. After being 49 days on Stablon, side-effects are slowly diminishing but, unfortunately, so are the prosexual effects which were considerable when starting but are now very small, although not zero. // Ulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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