Re: Here we go again...with dapoxetine hydrochloride!!!

September 14, 2006

Here is another thought. Is Dapoxetine is a weak SSRI, then it would be a lot better than let say something powerful like Paxil. Right now, Drs prescribe Paxil and Zoloft for PE, which in my opinion is too powerful. Something less powerful may do less damage. So, maybe this is not a bad news.

-Steve

TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed prototype drugfor tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and effectivein a large-scale trial among American men, investigators report in The

Lancet.The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first pharmeceuticaltreatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation if the USFood and Drog Administration and other licensors give their approval.

The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and generallywell-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation " significantly. " - AFPAnyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on your side

of the border, but I recommend further investigation and possible roadblocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT THE ANSWER!We are all here because they are the problem!Regards.

September 14, 2006

Approving an SSRI, fast acting or not, for premature ejaculation is

absolutely ridiculous. Everyone has different tolerance levels for

these drugs, so even if it is a " weak " SSRI, it could still do some

damage. Prozac and Celexa were also deemed " safe " in clinical

trials. This *could* harm perfectly normal people, when there are

plenty of other alternatives to solve this problem.

Luther

> >

> > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed

prototype drug

> > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and

effective

> > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators report

in The

> > Lancet.

> > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first

pharmeceutical

> > treatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation if the

US

> > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their

approval.

> > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and generally

> > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > " significantly. " - AFP

> >

> > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on your

side

> > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and

possible road

> > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT THE

ANSWER!

> > We are all here because they are the problem!

> >

> > Regards.

> >

>

September 14, 2006

Hi Luther:

I think if I had a choice between Paxil or a weaker SSRI, I would not have gone with Paxil. The point is some of these drugs last a long time in our body, and if our body,as you indicated, react badly to these medication, then we are doomed. Perhaps, if the medication is weaker, they don't boost the serotonin as much, or they don't stay in the body for a long period time, it would be safer for problem like PE. I agree there are other methods, speaking out of experience, many times they just don't work.

Approving an SSRI, fast acting or not, for premature ejaculation is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone has different tolerance levels for these drugs, so even if it is a " weak " SSRI, it could still do some damage. Prozac and Celexa were also deemed " safe " in clinical trials. This *could* harm perfectly normal people, when there are plenty of other alternatives to solve this problem. Luther

> >> > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed prototype drug> > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and effective> > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators report in The> > Lancet.> > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first pharmeceutical> > treatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation if the US> > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their approval.> > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and generally> > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > " significantly. " - AFP> >> > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on your side> > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and possible road

> > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT THE ANSWER!> > We are all here because they are the problem!> >> > Regards.> >> > > >

>

September 14, 2006

Hey Steve -

Using myself as an example - back in my pre-Celexa days, I would

have bouts of PE due for obvious reasons...my sex drive was high and

I got overly excited when coming in contact with a woman. But I

found on days when I was heavily caffeinated (due to coffee,

mountain dew, etc.) the problem got worse. When I cut back the

problem wasn't so bad. So my PE was partially caused by being

too " hopped up " on caffeine, not low serotonin.

So I guess my point is doctors *should* explore natural reasons

these problems as opposed to quickly writing a script for a

potentially hazardous drug like Dapoxetine. But everyone wants a

quick fix (which I understand to a point), hence all these drugs for

every little problem.

Luther

> > > >

> > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed

> > prototype drug

> > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and

> > effective

> > > > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators

report

> > in The

> > > > Lancet.

> > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first

> > pharmeceutical

> > > > treatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation if

the

> > US

> > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their

> > approval.

> > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and

generally

> > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > >

> > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on

your

> > side

> > > > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and

> > possible road

> > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT THE

> > ANSWER!

> > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > >

> > > > Regards.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 15, 2006

I agree with Luther on this. Dapoxetine is a " failed " SSRI. It was

orginially developed as an antidepressant, and when they found out

it was crap in the clinical trials, they tried to save their

development costs by marketing it as PE drug. It's a dirty drug,

and if it is approved by the FDA (so far they have not approved it)

I bet any money that five years from now we'll be hearing countless

stories of young men being messed up by it.

Vornan

> > > > >

> > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed

> > > prototype drug

> > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and

> > > effective

> > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators

> report

> > > in The

> > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first

> > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation

if

> the

> > > US

> > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their

> > > approval.

> > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and

> generally

> > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on

> your

> > > side

> > > > > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and

> > > possible road

> > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT

THE

> > > ANSWER!

> > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 15, 2006

I think the fact that it was a " failed SSRI " is good news. :-)

When I talked to my Dr. about PE, we talked about other remedies, And I believed he gave me another medication first before Paxil. I think more choices for Dr the better specially when Dr. are using off-lable drugs.

During my young years, I was exposed to people using opiom. I know opiom is adictive and I am not a fan of it. I never used it. My father was saying, in many countries in the past, only the rich were taking opiom and there was no problem with adiction or junkies. People learned to use it properly and even for headache and other medical needs. One of the remedies I heard about was PE. They use it to last longer. Obviously, if you start abusing the opiom, as many tend to do, or if you start using much stronger derivative like herioin, you are set on a path to destroy your brain, and forget about your life.

I guess the point I am trying to make it the fact the a drug or suplement has SSRI characteristic does not make it bad. St. is also an SSRI. Some compare it to be as effective as 70mg of Prozac. However, we tend to believe the St. is less problematic and in some cases helped people here in this group.

-Steve

I agree with Luther on this. Dapoxetine is a " failed " SSRI. It was orginially developed as an antidepressant, and when they found out it was crap in the clinical trials, they tried to save their

development costs by marketing it as PE drug. It's a dirty drug, and if it is approved by the FDA (so far they have not approved it) I bet any money that five years from now we'll be hearing countless stories of young men being messed up by it.

Vornan> > > > >

> > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed> > > prototype drug> > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and> > > effective

> > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators > report> > > in The> > > > > Lancet.> > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first

> > > pharmeceutical> > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature ejaculation if > the> > > US> > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their

> > > approval.> > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and > generally> > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > > > > " significantly. " - AFP> > > > >> > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on > your> > > side> > > > > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and

> > > possible road> > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT THE> > > ANSWER!> > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > >> > > > > Regards.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >

> >>

September 15, 2006

Are you going to try it?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed

> > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be

safe and

> > > > > effective

> > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

investigators

> > > report

> > > > > in The

> > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first

> > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature

ejaculation

> > if

> > > the

> > > > > US

> > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give

their

> > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and

> > > generally

> > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to

ejaculation

> > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no

say on

> > > your

> > > > > side

> > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further investigation

and

> > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE

NOT

> > THE

> > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 15, 2006

Thanks to Paxil, while it has effected my sex drive, my PE is much under control. I don't think I need the medication. However, two years ago if the Dr. would have told me, I have a weaker SSRI, I would start with that, instead of Paxil. I am not saying this because of my experience with Paxil. This purely because it would be safer to start from weaker, lower dose, medication.

-Steve

Are you going to try it?

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely followed> > > > > prototype drug> > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be safe and> > > > > effective> > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men, investigators> > > report> > > > > in The> > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the first> > > > > pharmeceutical> > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature

ejaculation> > if> > > the> > > > > US> > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors give their> > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective and> > > generally> > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to ejaculation

> > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no say on> > > your

> > > > > side> > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further investigation and> > > > > possible road> > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS ARE NOT> > THE> > > > > ANSWER!> > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

September 15, 2006

Any time a new SSRI hits the market, it is bad news. Especially

because our problem hasn't really hit the mainstream yet, and these

potential long-term problems are found nowhere in the literature. I

doubt many people would want Dapoxetine if they knew of our cases. A

mind-altering drug for PE is ridiculous.

Luther

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely

followed

> > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be

> > safe and

> > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > investigators

> > > > > report

> > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the

first

> > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature

> > ejaculation

> > > > if

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors

give

> > their

> > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective

and

> > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to

> > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no

> > say on

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

investigation

> > and

> > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. DRUGS

ARE

> > NOT

> > > > THE

> > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

I could not agree with you more. And I think that is big hurdle we have. If we were dealing with cocain, heroin, LSD, every one would see the danger of messing around with neutransmitters. But the fact that many peope get well, or benefit from the drug, and after stopping it the side effect goes away within few months, make it tougher to prove and show there is a problem.

And on top of that this is $40b business. The business itself will fuel it to not be questioned at any level. Drs, FDA, researcher, companies, all benefits in some ways by not looking into small group where they suffer from PSSD.

~steve

Steve -You bring up good points, however the big problem I have with SSRIs is that *potential* problems such as PSSD are not common knowledge with doctors and aren't mentioned at all with the literature that comes with these drugs. Don't you think enough people are having long-term, life altering problems from these drugs that it should be noted as a risk?Sure, it's ultimately up to the patient to decide whether they want to go down the SSRI road to treat problems such as PE and depression, but they should know the facts first, shouldn't they?Yes, there are folks out there that have severe (or moderate)problems and SSRIs give them relief. I understand that. But should it be a first line treatment or should other options be explored first? SSRIs many times are needlessly prescribed, and send people in the wrong direction...Luther> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely> > followed> > > > > > > > > prototype drug> > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found to be> > > > safe and> > > > > > > > > effective> > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,> > > > investigators

> > > > > > > report> > > > > > > > > in The> > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.> > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the

> > first> > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical> > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature> > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > if> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > US> > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other licensors> > give> > > > their> > > > > > > > > approval.> > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an effective> > and> > > > > > > generally> > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to> > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and have no> > > > say on> > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > side> > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > investigation> > > > and> > > > > > > > > possible road> > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

DRUGS> > ARE> > > > NOT> > > > > > THE> > > > > > > > > ANSWER!> > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

September 28, 2006

Ken:

I must disagree with you at some level. Sex is a big part of me and most men and women. If you take that from me, I would feel I am dead. I am not exadurating. Take my leg, my arm, I would feel bad and sad about it, but sex and sexual feeling is a core nature for me. When I feel OK, perhaps when my free T is up enough, I feel alive. I feel it when I see women, good looking women. When I look at my wife, I feel happy and close to her and I feel the attraction. On the other hand when I down, and I see my self with no feeling even when I watch porn, or look at my wife naked, or in the middle of the sex I lose the erection and feeling, I feel like dead.

Have you tried reading some book about PE. I read these books:

How To Overcome Premature Ejaculation Coping With Premature Ejaculation: How to Overcome PE, Please Your Partner & Have Great Sex

They were great help and one tip I can give you in my case, had to do with PC muscle. I was not too aware of that before reading the book. But excecises help. Another tip, on the 2nd book you need to get to the middle of the book. Don't get discourage by reading the 1st half.

I believe Prozac is not a very good drug for PE. Perhaps too strong and side effect themselves could be depressing and frustrating, and in some cases may last a long time.

Good luck,

-Steve

I think what Steve and I are saying is simply that if we have aproblem, and if SSRI COULD help, then it is simple - yes let the drugbe on the market. I don't think a hypothetical scenario is helpful,because we don't know what the other potential hypothetical details

are involved in the hypothetical world.I have always felt that if one is going to start a drug that can havepowerful effects, then any patient should be smart enough to start outat very very low dosages first, and build up over time, regardless of

what the doctor may say. This automatically reduces the number ofproblems.Finally, I'm not sure I've read too many people on this list say thatthese SSRIs have " destroyed " their lives. It's a big jump from

" ruining or degrading my sex life " to " it has ruined my life " or evencaused me to die.We all know that any drug can have risks, very serious risks, and eventhough SSRIs need more warning than they do currently have, and docs

should be better informed and trained in how to prescribe them (ornot), I don't think they should be taken off the market unless it canbe proven they are more harmful than helpful.I take prozac now for PE (10mg and now 20mg) for several months, it is

the first SSRI I've taken, and to be honest, it hasn't done a thing tome. Virtually zero. Worst I can say is that once in a while I mighthave a nightmare from it, maybe. The doc says he might refer me to a

urologist if my 20mg dose isn't working out, in which case they mightconsider some other options (other SSRI, maybe). But living with PEcan really suck because my wife is quite frustrated and somewhatuninterested (not totally) in sex with me because of my PE. I really

don't blame her, I can imagine being teased to near climax most ofthem time and then being let down because of a PE problem. It's likewhy even start anything? But if some SSRI would help me with thesituation, and if I don't have any real side effects from it, then why

should it not be available to me? It's either take that, or the bothof us live with PE?It's like having a spouse and not having sex with them hardly ever,and when you finally do, it last 1 minute.

-Ken> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely

> > > followed> > > > > > > > > > prototype drug> > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found > to be

> > > > > safe and> > > > > > > > > > effective> > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,> > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > report> > > > > > > > > > in The> > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.> > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the

> > > first> > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical> > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature> > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > US> > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other > licensors> > > give> > > > > their> > > > > > > > > > approval.> > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an > effective> > > and> > > > > > > > generally> > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to> > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and > have no> > > > > say on> > > > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > > side> > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > investigation> > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > possible road> > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market. > DRUGS> > > ARE> > > > > NOT> > > > > > > THE> > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!> > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >

> >>

September 28, 2006

Why are you defending SSRIs? I don't understand where you're coming

from. I can only assume that it's becasue you got better. If your

life was ruined like some people have confided to me off-list, you

would be singuing a different tune. I guarantee it.

Vornan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > to be

> > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors

> > > > give

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and

> > have no

> > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > investigation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > DRUGS

> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

You say that if you lost sexuality you would feel dead. Some people

lose their sexuality forever after taking SSRIs. And yet you defend

the drugs?

??????

Vornan

-- In SSRIsex , " Steve "

wrote:

>

> Ken:

>

> I must disagree with you at some level. Sex is a big part of me

and most

> men and women. If you take that from me, I would feel I am dead.

I am not

> exadurating. Take my leg, my arm, I would feel bad and sad about

it, but

> sex and sexual feeling is a core nature for me. When I feel OK,

perhaps

> when my free T is up enough, I feel alive. I feel it when I see

women, good

> looking women. When I look at my wife, I feel happy and close to

her and I

> feel the attraction. On the other hand when I down, and I see my

self with

> no feeling even when I watch porn, or look at my wife naked, or in

the

> middle of the sex I lose the erection and feeling, I feel like

dead.

>

> Have you tried reading some book about PE. I read these books:

>

> - How To Overcome Premature Ejaculation

> - Coping With Premature Ejaculation: How to Overcome PE, Please

Your

> Partner & Have Great Sex

>

> They were great help and one tip I can give you in my case, had to

do with

> PC muscle. I was not too aware of that before reading the book.

But

> excecises help. Another tip, on the 2nd book you need to get to

the middle

> of the book. Don't get discourage by reading the 1st half.

>

> I believe Prozac is not a very good drug for PE. Perhaps too

strong and

> side effect themselves could be depressing and frustrating, and in

some

> cases may last a long time.

>

> Good luck,

> -Steve

>

> >

> > I think what Steve and I are saying is simply that if we have a

> > problem, and if SSRI COULD help, then it is simple - yes let the

drug

> > be on the market. I don't think a hypothetical scenario is

helpful,

> > because we don't know what the other potential hypothetical

details

> > are involved in the hypothetical world.

> >

> > I have always felt that if one is going to start a drug that can

have

> > powerful effects, then any patient should be smart enough to

start out

> > at very very low dosages first, and build up over time,

regardless of

> > what the doctor may say. This automatically reduces the number of

> > problems.

> >

> > Finally, I'm not sure I've read too many people on this list say

that

> > these SSRIs have " destroyed " their lives. It's a big jump from

> > " ruining or degrading my sex life " to " it has ruined my life " or

even

> > caused me to die.

> >

> > We all know that any drug can have risks, very serious risks,

and even

> > though SSRIs need more warning than they do currently have, and

docs

> > should be better informed and trained in how to prescribe them

(or

> > not), I don't think they should be taken off the market unless

it can

> > be proven they are more harmful than helpful.

> >

> > I take prozac now for PE (10mg and now 20mg) for several months,

it is

> > the first SSRI I've taken, and to be honest, it hasn't done a

thing to

> > me. Virtually zero. Worst I can say is that once in a while I

might

> > have a nightmare from it, maybe. The doc says he might refer me

to a

> > urologist if my 20mg dose isn't working out, in which case they

might

> > consider some other options (other SSRI, maybe). But living with

PE

> > can really suck because my wife is quite frustrated and somewhat

> > uninterested (not totally) in sex with me because of my PE. I

really

> > don't blame her, I can imagine being teased to near climax most

of

> > them time and then being let down because of a PE problem. It's

like

> > why even start anything? But if some SSRI would help me with the

> > situation, and if I don't have any real side effects from it,

then why

> > should it not be available to me? It's either take that, or the

both

> > of us live with PE?

> >

> > It's like having a spouse and not having sex with them hardly

ever,

> > and when you finally do, it last 1 minute.

> >

> > -Ken

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > > to be

> > > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American

men,

> > > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > > licensors

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > > effective

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

and

> > > have no

> > > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > > investigation

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the

market.

> > > DRUGS

> > > > > ARE

> > > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

I created an exaggerated scenario in the hope of bringing things

into sharper perspective for you. I see that I failed. From your

point of view, SSRIs are fine because you got no side effects from

them. If your life had been ruined, you would have a different

perspective. BTW, if you get no side effects from Prozac, what are

you doing here?

Vornan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > to be

> > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors

> > > > give

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

and

> > have no

> > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > investigation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > DRUGS

> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

what makes you so sure that PSSD is a small percentage? Shipko

thinks that half of his patients get PSSD after taking SSRIs.

Vornan

-- In SSRIsex , " Steve "

wrote:

>

> I could not agree with you more. And I think that is big hurdle

we have.

> If we were dealing with cocain, heroin, LSD, every one would see

the danger

> of messing around with neutransmitters. But the fact that many

peope get

> well, or benefit from the drug, and after stopping it the side

effect goes

> away within few months, make it tougher to prove and show there is

a

> problem.

>

> And on top of that this is $40b business. The business itself

will fuel it

> to not be questioned at any level. Drs, FDA, researcher,

companies, all

> benefits in some ways by not looking into small group where they

suffer from

> PSSD.

>

> ~steve

>

> >

> > Steve -

> >

> > You bring up good points, however the big problem I have with

SSRIs

> > is that *potential* problems such as PSSD are not common

knowledge

> > with doctors and aren't mentioned at all with the literature that

> > comes with these drugs. Don't you think enough people are having

> > long-term, life altering problems from these drugs that it

should be

> > noted as a risk?

> >

> > Sure, it's ultimately up to the patient to decide whether they

want

> > to go down the SSRI road to treat problems such as PE and

> > depression, but they should know the facts first, shouldn't they?

> >

> > Yes, there are folks out there that have severe (or moderate)

> > problems and SSRIs give them relief. I understand that. But

should

> > it be a first line treatment or should other options be explored

> > first? SSRIs many times are needlessly prescribed, and send

people

> > in the wrong direction...

> >

> > Luther

> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > to be

> > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors

> > > > give

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and

> > have no

> > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > investigation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > DRUGS

> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

I don't think SSRIs should be taken off the market, but they should

be much more strictly controlled. You can't walk into a doctor's

office and get a script for cocaine or Extacy. But their mechanism

of action is very similar to SSRIs.

Vornan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > to be

> > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors

> > > > give

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

and

> > have no

> > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > investigation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > DRUGS

> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

If you want to " cure " your PE, why not try a very high dose of Paxil

for a few months? I guarantee you that it will work. But don't ask

me about the side effects...

Vornan

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

closely

> > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

found

> > to be

> > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

be the

> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

premature

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors

> > > > give

> > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

time to

> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

and

> > have no

> > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > investigation

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > DRUGS

> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

If that is true...wow. I always figured it was something like 5-8%,

which is still obviously statistically significant. Does Shipko

still prescribe them?

Luther

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

> closely

> > > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

> found

> > > to be

> > > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American

men,

> > > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

> be the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

> premature

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > > licensors

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > > effective

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

> time to

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

and

> > > have no

> > > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > > investigation

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the

market.

> > > DRUGS

> > > > > ARE

> > > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

> problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 28, 2006

Yeah, I think he might exaggerate a bit in the other direction, but

I would guess around 25-30% if you inlcude milder forms of it. In

some cases it tends to be an isolated symptom, like muted orgasm, so

people are less likely to report it than loss of libido. But he asks

all of his patients.

He uses them much less frequently than in the past, probably only

for severe cases of depression and anxiety when other thinsg haven't

worked.

Vornan

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

> > closely

> > > > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

> > found

> > > > to be

> > > > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American

> men,

> > > > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride,

will

> > be the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

> > premature

> > > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > > > licensors

> > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine

as " an

> > > > effective

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that

improved

> > time to

> > > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a

Canadian

> and

> > > > have no

> > > > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > > > investigation

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the

> market.

> > > > DRUGS

> > > > > > ARE

> > > > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

> > problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Hi Vornan,

Since I'm a first time user of SSRI, I felt it would be a good idea to

familiarize myself with the advantage and disadvantages of these

drugs. This group is a good source of information regarding the

negative side, which I agree is not mentioned nearly as much as it

should be.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that SSRIs are fine because I didn't

receive a negative side effect. I wanted to say that if there are

people who are benefitted from them, why should they not be available

to those whom are either willing to trade a greater problem for a

lesser one, or perhaps don't suffer many side effects (like me, thus far).

Believe me, I'm not trying to take away from anything you do here.

-Ken

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

> closely

> > > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

> found

> > > to be

> > > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

> be the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

> premature

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > > licensors

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > > effective

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

> time to

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

> and

> > > have no

> > > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > > investigation

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > > DRUGS

> > > > > ARE

> > > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

> problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Hi Vornan,

Well, then we are both pretty much in agreement then.

-Ken

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A

> closely

> > > > > followed

> > > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was

> found

> > > to be

> > > > > > > safe and

> > > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,

> > > > > > > investigators

> > > > > > > > > > report

> > > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will

> be the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for

> premature

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > US

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > > licensors

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > their

> > > > > > > > > > > > approval.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > > effective

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > generally

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved

> time to

> > > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian

> and

> > > have no

> > > > > > > say on

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > side

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further

> > > > > investigation

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > possible road

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.

> > > DRUGS

> > > > > ARE

> > > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > > > THE

> > > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the

> problem!

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Hi Vornan:

In some ways, I wished what you said were true and half of the people get PSSD after quiting SSRI. Maybe in that case we would have more exposure and people had already found a cure or found remedies that works. Like you said, these number seems so high (your estimate is around 20% or so) Searching over the Internet I have seen only couple of places, once here and one in Wikipedia, which I think the source is from here too. There are some paper out there, about PSSD, but like we all know, these are few and only few patient. Prozac has been on the market for over 20 years, and SSRI has a $40b market. I have talked to 10 Dr. in past year or so, and many on this group have talked to many Dr and the overall sense is no one had seen this problem. Couple of my Dr. had open mind and said their might be some link, and did not rule SSRI out, but they said they had not seen it.

Please, don't get wrong here. I am not saying PSSD does not exist, I have it and feel it time to time. I could not possibly deny that. I am just trying to explain why I think we are small percentage.

Another source I have looked into in the past, even before PPSD, is webMD. Most people I talked to believe it is a good source. They have articles, Drs to ask for advise, and patient to patient support group. If you search the whole site and message board, and look for SSRI and sexual dysfunction, you find few posts there and all are from me. How can I explain that, and at the same time believe 50% of people quitting SSRI have PSSD?

I don't think people under report PSSD problem, because they are embarrassed or not an easy subject to report to their Dr. As you know, and some one recently said in one the of post, SSRI does not only have effect on sexual function. It does something else to the brain too. Many, including me where suffering from, foggy head, hangover, fatigue, insomnia few months after SSRI. (till I started the effexor). While I may understand people may not complain to their Dr. about ED, they are more likely to complain about fatigue and foggy head. How do we explain the low percentage of reporting.

I could be wrong, but maybe, the key to our " cure " or remedy is the fact that we are small percentage. Maybe we can find, what is common between all of us and find an explanation. Maybe we all are poor metabolizer of these SSRI. Some with no D26 pathways, I believe I am one of them. Maybe quitting cold turkey is another factor, I am guilty of that one too.

I do understand the frustration all of us go through. I work hard, I exercise every day, I eat healthy by many standards, I am not over weight, don't have blood pressure, don't smoke, don't have any other illness and all of these started by taking 5-10mg of Paxil, where most people could eat like candy. (Ok, I may be exaggerating here :-)) On psychiatric I went through, although he was sympathetic to my problem and were not fond of SSRI, said 5mg of Paxil is considered at the no therapeutic dosage. He was surprised has how my body was reacting to Paxil. But at the same time, we should not force ourselves to believe this problem is more spread that it really is. I don't think it helps.

Regards,

Steve

what makes you so sure that PSSD is a small percentage? Shipko thinks that half of his patients get PSSD after taking SSRIs.Vornan-- In

SSRIsex , " Steve " wrote:>> I could not agree with you more. And I think that is big hurdle we have.> If we were dealing with cocain, heroin, LSD, every one would see the danger> of messing around with neutransmitters. But the fact that many peope get> well, or benefit from the drug, and after stopping it the side effect goes> away within few months, make it tougher to prove and show there is a> problem.> > And on top of that this is $40b business. The business itself will fuel it> to not be questioned at any level. Drs, FDA, researcher, companies, all> benefits in some ways by not looking into small group where they suffer from> PSSD.> > ~steve> > > > >> > Steve -> >> > You bring up good points, however the big problem I have with SSRIs> > is that *potential* problems such as PSSD are not common knowledge> > with doctors and aren't mentioned at all with the literature that> > comes with these drugs. Don't you think enough people are having

> > long-term, life altering problems from these drugs that it should be> > noted as a risk?> >> > Sure, it's ultimately up to the patient to decide whether they want> > to go down the SSRI road to treat problems such as PE and

> > depression, but they should know the facts first, shouldn't they?> >> > Yes, there are folks out there that have severe (or moderate)> > problems and SSRIs give them relief. I understand that. But should> > it be a first line treatment or should other options be explored> > first? SSRIs many times are needlessly prescribed, and send people> > in the wrong direction...> >

> > Luther> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > TRIAL FINDS DRUG TO BE EFFECTIVE - A closely> > > > followed> > > > > > > > > > > prototype drug

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for tackling premature ejaculation was found> > to be> > > > > > safe and> > > > > > > > > > > effective

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a large-scale trial among American men,> > > > > > investigators> > > > > > > > > report> > > > > > > > > > > in The

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lancet.> > > > > > > > > > > > > The drug, dapoxetine hydrochloride, will be the> > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > pharmeceutical> > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment specifically intended for premature> > > > > > ejaculation

> > > > > > > > if> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > US> > > > > > > > > > > > > Food and Drog Administration and other

> > licensors> > > > give> > > > > > their> > > > > > > > > > > approval.> > > > > > > > > > > > > The assessors describe dapoxetine as " an

> > effective> > > > and> > > > > > > > > generally> > > > > > > > > > > > > well-tolerated treatment " that improved time to> > > > > > ejaculation> > > > > > > > > > > > > " significantly. " - AFP> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else here scared? I'm a Canadian and> > have no> > > > > > say on> > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > side> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the border, but I recommend further> > > > investigation> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > possible road> > > > > > > > > > > > > blocks to having this drug hit the market.> > DRUGS> > > > ARE

> > > > > > NOT> > > > > > > > THE> > > > > > > > > > > ANSWER!> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are all here because they are the problem!> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

September 29, 2006

Hi Vornan:

I think you are jumping to a conclusion which is not true. If you, or anyone, feeling that my tone was deffending the SSRI, I am sorry about that and that was not my intention.

I believe, SSRI are over prescribed.

I believe, looking at depression as a sicknes like cold or blood pressure, have given Dr. false authority to treat true casues for depression.

I believe 80~90% of AD prescription are written by Internal Drs who spend only 5 min with the patient.

I believe, the market is so huge, $40b a year, which create a huge momemtum for the drug to to be used widely.

I believe, SSRI cuase sexual dysfunction while taking the drug. This number is on the high side, 80%. Most Dr. I talked to confirm that.

I believe, most people have no problem quitting SSRI and don't have PSSD and we are in minority. Most people may go through withdraw period, from a couple of weeks to a month or two. Not many reported PSSD or other persistant side effect after quitting.

I believe, when people use SSRI, for the sake of PSSD or other problem while being on the drug, they should be on the lowest dosage possible, or perhaps a weeker SSRI might be better choice (this is how this post started). This is specially true when the SSRI is used for its off-lable effect.

I hope above explains where I am comming from.

By way, I am far from being cured, like many people here I go up and down. I have good days and bad days. For you information, this is my bad week. :-(

-Steve

Why are you defending SSRIs? I don't understand where you're coming from. I can only assume that it's becasue you got better. If your life was ruined like some people have confided to me off-list, you would be singuing a different tune. I guarantee it.

Vornan> > > > > > > > > > > > >