Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 In a message dated 9/17/2006 6:20:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Caregar@... writes: I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times refuses to do things and would rather run the show. Trisha's (14) school uses tokens and visual schedules, but they do it a little different than everyone else we've seen. They started out with her just having to earn a small amount of tokens to get her choice of reward then as she mastered that they increased the amount of tokens needed to get a reward. So for instance, if they are working on tacting when she finishes that she is able to take a token and put in on her token board, when she finishes X amount of tasks then she gets to chose which reward she wants to do and she gets a short break time to enjoy her reward. Then they go back to her earning more tokens and more breaks. At first they had to hand over hand help her with the token and choice boards but now she is doing it herself. They requested that we send in as many items that she enjoys or likes to use a rewards and that has helped tremendously, occasionally she will decide she is going to test them but her last report said that even at those times she is easily re-directed. They also use a " first " / " then " card which we use at home as well. When she wants to do something at home and it isn't time for it, we use the first/then card, first go to the bathroom and then watch movie. We've had fewer meltdowns using this method. The visual schedule helped a lot because it helps her to know what is coming up next and what she can look forward to. The other thing is if there is a task she just doesn't like they try to have one she likes just before and after the " yucky " task. :-) Carol Trishasmom She isn't typical, She's Trisha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has impeded his learning for years. While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want him to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) to protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with either a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule for the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an 80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF treat day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in school when he told us about his day at home. While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did markedly REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply (eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. The class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, she just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a friend. He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. >From: Caregar@... >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: non compliance advice >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > >Hi, >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience last >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown will >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > >Thanks, >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, >free AOL Mail and more. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Tori is a big compliance nightmare at times. Time outs sometimes work. Food reinforcers sometimes work. Nothing works sometimes. It all depends on her mood. Sorry I can't be of much help. We have the same issues at home & in school. Liz non compliance advice Hi, I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, , who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience last year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown will occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. Thanks, Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) __________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Sue and Sara-- I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching of time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, please. " ) and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with helping him up. I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change that I as hopeful for more. The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him succeed. I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from 0% of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) sara cohen wrote: Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has impeded his learning for years. While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want him to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) to protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with either a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule for the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an 80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF treat day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in school when he told us about his day at home. While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did markedly REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply (eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. The class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, she just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a friend. He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. >From: Caregar@... >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: non compliance advice >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > >Hi, >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience last >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown will >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > >Thanks, >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) >__________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, >free AOL Mail and more. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 We also used a psychologist/behavorist to clarify exactly what and how to make requests of Elie. It was vital that all of us (home and school) request/require that Elie comply over the same issues and the same way. Thus, if I said - " Time to get dressed " and Elie went to turn on his tape player, I told him NO - First you get dressed and THEN you may play the tape. If he continued to try for the tape player, I removed it. I did not repeat what I had said - remember, our kids are not stupid, only retarded - they need time to process not have words dinging at the them. Also, if he started bleating and sat on the floor, I reminded hiim to make good choices to earn a star and then stopped talking. There were differing opinions as to whether to maintain eye contact or to ignor him. I decided over time that eye contact when he was stonewalloing made the situation worse, so our written plan was to used planned ignoring. Issue a directive, make sure he heard me - got his attention FIRST, then saat down or walked to the side and waited. IT has taken him up to an hour to comply at some point. Now he generally does whats asked of him with a small - almost hesitation- and then he does whats asked. DON " T GIVE UP - it doesn't happen over nite - or even over weeks. It has taken us years to get where we are. Of course Saturday nite we went to a blue grass concert where we go every month. Elie got out of the car and then refused to enter the building. Took 30 minutes of my waiting and then a switch to dh telling him to come in. We got in our seats as the first song began. Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: RE: non compliance advice >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:40:05 -0700 (PDT) > >Sue and Sara-- > I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and >let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching of >time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " >card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that >a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior >interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The >Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago >but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply >with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, please. " ) >and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help >you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with >helping him up. > > I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior >Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to >follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change >that I as hopeful for more. > > The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful >with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. >That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any >chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing >distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him >succeed. > > I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal >and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in >it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from 0% >of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by >training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give >reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally >reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. > > Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . > > Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) > > >sara cohen wrote: > Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has >impeded his >learning for years. > >While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want him >to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line >though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) to >protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. > >For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with >either >a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule for >the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an >80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF treat >day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in >school when he told us about his day at home. > >While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did markedly >REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply >(eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). > >This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. The >class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, she >just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She >does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns >in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this >year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a >quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a friend. >He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > >From: Caregar@... > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: non compliance advice > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > > > >Hi, > >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, > >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience >last > >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's > >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. > >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown >will > >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times > >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the > >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule > >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but > >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > > > >Thanks, > >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) > >__________________________________________________________ > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the >web, > >free AOL Mail and more. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Sue, What has worked for who is king of controlling his environment and woe be the soul who pushes him. Actually, he has very high anxiety issues and a history of abuse which affects his ability to form secure bonds. Anyway, he works off of two picture schedules in his classroom. The first is a large schedule on the wall with each of the major events of the day on the schedule. Each of these comes down when complete and goes into an envelope. Then, for each " task " he has a first, next, then schedule. The first is a picture of a preparatory task (i.e. getting out materials, arranging something in the room, etc.), the next is the actual teaching task that is to be completed, the " then " portion is two choices ( has chosen before starting the first task on schedule). These choices consistent of a quiet more soothing sensory activity or a more active gross motor activity. We started this schedule each part taking approximately 5 minutes and gradually move to each schedule lasting a half hour. also has a break card that he can give to his teachers whenever he needs a break. We find that with the choices on the first, next, then schedule and consistency of people not asking too much of him that he is very willing to work, learn, and be cooperative, and likes going to school. If he refuses to engage or cooperate then he takes some quiet time and staff help him with sensory activities without worrying about getting him to work. For the consequence of pushing him to work and comply are just not worth it. Ultimately we can't make him do what we want, just like any 17 year old. That is where we are at after two years at a school who just increased his anxiety and finally got someone who could affect positive change last spring. Karyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I know this may be late, sorry on my lateness of responds, just been very busy as many of you are im sure. anyways, do they break the tasks down to the smallest increment? lWhen nathan was way younger part of his behavior plan was compliance. we started with just doing one item eg:put the peg int he hole---and then gave him lots of cheer and then the choice work or break/play, he knew how to sign each of them. they gradually shortned the amount of break time and increased his work time or items to do--this worked very well for us, and he has built up to 30minutes plus for his work activities. now, unless not feeling well, he will do enitre class/course work for that period and take a quick break, get a drink of water, when he does his vocaional at the local grocery store he gets to get himself an orange pop(his fav) when all done. hope this hleps.shawna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 oh yes we used the " first/then " with nathan, even his little brother picked up on that tactic with nathan a handfull of years ago, this does work very well, if they really want that video they will do most anything. nathan has pretty much outgrwon the need for it, but every once and awhile we catch ourselfves having to pull this back out of our bag of tricks. shawna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 i agree here too we also used a biobehavioral team of psychologists, they use behvior teaching NOT meds, and they were a godsend for us and the school. nathan is nothing like he was in elementry school. i havent seen adrop and flop or wet noodle in years and he is usually very willing to do his chores at home and his school work at school. shawna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Sara, We had an educational consultant come observe last spring at home and in school. The first thing he told my husband and me was that we talk too much. Your email reminds me, once again, of that. I think I should post " talk less " signs all around my house. Telling her to do something only one time is so hard for me, but I will work on it. Thanks, Sue Re: non compliance advice Posted by: " sara cohen " pastmidvale@... pastmidvale Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 am (PST) We also used a psychologist/behavorist to clarify exactly what and how to make requests of Elie. It was vital that all of us (home and school) request/require that Elie comply over the same issues and the same way. Thus, if I said - " Time to get dressed " and Elie went to turn on his tape player, I told him NO - First you get dressed and THEN you may play the tape. If he continued to try for the tape player, I removed it. I did not repeat what I had said - remember, our kids are not stupid, only retarded - they need time to process not have words dinging at the them. Also, if he started bleating and sat on the floor, I reminded hiim to make good choices to earn a star and then stopped talking. There were differing opinions as to whether to maintain eye contact or to ignor him. I decided over time that eye contact when he was stonewalloing made the situation worse, so our written plan was to used planned ignoring. Issue a directive, make sure he heard me - got his attention FIRST, then saat down or walked to the side and waited. IT has taken him up to an hour to comply at some point. Now he generally does whats asked of him with a small - almost hesitation- and then he does whats asked. DON " T GIVE UP - it doesn't happen over nite - or even over weeks. It has taken us years to get where we are. Of course Saturday nite we went to a blue grass concert where we go every month. Elie got out of the car and then refused to enter the building. Took 30 minutes of my waiting and then a switch to dh telling him to come in. We got in our seats as the first song began. Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: RE: non compliance advice >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:40:05 -0700 (PDT) > >Sue and Sara-- > I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and >let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching of >time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " >card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that >a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior >interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The >Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago >but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply >with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, please. " ) >and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help >you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with >helping him up. > > I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior >Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to >follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change >that I as hopeful for more. > > The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful >with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. >That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any >chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing >distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him >succeed. > > I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal >and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in >it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from 0% >of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by >training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give >reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally >reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. > > Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . > > Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) > > >sara cohen wrote: > Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has >impeded his >learning for years. > >While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want him >to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line >though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) to >protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. > >For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with >either >a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule for >the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an >80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF treat >day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in >school when he told us about his day at home. > >While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did markedly >REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply >(eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). > >This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. The >class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, she >just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She >does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns >in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this >year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a >quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a friend. >He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > >From: Caregar@... > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: non compliance advice > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > > > >Hi, > >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, > >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience >last > >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's > >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. > >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown >will > >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times > >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the > >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule > >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but > >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > > > >Thanks, > >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) > >__________________________________________________________ > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the >web, > >free AOL Mail and more. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Thanks for the ideas about compliance for 's school. We have wonderful communication with the new school so I am passing ideas along when we talk. We have talked about being more proactive with the sensory stuff. One question, where do I find a behaviorist? We do see a therapist in her office, but are you all talking about someone who comes to home or school to observe the child in that setting? had three great days this week, so I thought we were maybe on our way. But, here I am sitting at home after picking her up this morning. She ran out of the building and sat on the tennis courts for 50 minutes using colorful language and refused to work once they got her in. She told them she was in charge of the world. They handled things so much better than last year. Never a dull moment..... Sue (Norah 18, 13 mosaic DS, ADHD, mood and anxiety) Re: non compliance advice Posted by: " sara cohen " pastmidvale@... pastmidvale Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 am (PST) We also used a psychologist/behavorist to clarify exactly what and how to make requests of Elie. It was vital that all of us (home and school) request/require that Elie comply over the same issues and the same way. Thus, if I said - " Time to get dressed " and Elie went to turn on his tape player, I told him NO - First you get dressed and THEN you may play the tape. If he continued to try for the tape player, I removed it. I did not repeat what I had said - remember, our kids are not stupid, only retarded - they need time to process not have words dinging at the them. Also, if he started bleating and sat on the floor, I reminded hiim to make good choices to earn a star and then stopped talking. There were differing opinions as to whether to maintain eye contact or to ignor him. I decided over time that eye contact when he was stonewalloing made the situation worse, so our written plan was to used planned ignoring. Issue a directive, make sure he heard me - got his attention FIRST, then saat down or walked to the side and waited. IT has taken him up to an hour to comply at some point. Now he generally does whats asked of him with a small - almost hesitation- and then he does whats asked. DON " T GIVE UP - it doesn't happen over nite - or even over weeks. It has taken us years to get where we are. Of course Saturday nite we went to a blue grass concert where we go every month. Elie got out of the car and then refused to enter the building. Took 30 minutes of my waiting and then a switch to dh telling him to come in. We got in our seats as the first song began. Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: RE: non compliance advice >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:40:05 -0700 (PDT) > >Sue and Sara-- > I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and >let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching of >time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " >card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that >a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior >interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The >Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago >but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply >with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, please. " ) >and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help >you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with >helping him up. > > I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior >Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to >follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change >that I as hopeful for more. > > The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful >with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. >That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any >chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing >distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him >succeed. > > I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal >and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in >it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from 0% >of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by >training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give >reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally >reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. > > Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . > > Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) > > >sara cohen wrote: > Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has >impeded his >learning for years. > >While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want him >to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line >though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) to >protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. > >For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with >either >a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule for >the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an >80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF treat >day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in >school when he told us about his day at home. > >While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did markedly >REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply >(eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). > >This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. The >class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, she >just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She >does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns >in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this >year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a >quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a friend. >He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > >From: Caregar@... > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: non compliance advice > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > > > >Hi, > >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, > >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience >last > >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's > >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. > >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown >will > >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at times > >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the > >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the schedule > >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, but > >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > > > >Thanks, > >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) > >__________________________________________________________ > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the >web, > >free AOL Mail and more. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Even harder for me is to count to 60 before I repeat anything. I think after YEARS I have learned the noun verb object sentence - full stop. But, as y'all know, I LOVE to talk so it ain't easy. :~) Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. >From: Caregar@... >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: RE: non compliance advice >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:44:23 -0400 > > Sara, >We had an educational consultant come observe last spring at home and in >school. The first thing he told my husband and me was that we talk too >much. Your email reminds me, once again, of that. I think I should post > " talk less " signs all around my house. Telling her to do something only >one time is so hard for me, but I will work on it. > >Thanks, >Sue > >Re: non compliance advice >Posted by: " sara cohen " pastmidvale@... pastmidvale >Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 am (PST) >We also used a psychologist/behavorist to clarify exactly what and how to >make requests of Elie. It was vital that all of us (home and school) >request/require that Elie comply over the same issues and the same way. > >Thus, if I said - " Time to get dressed " and Elie went to turn on his tape >player, I told him NO - First you get dressed and THEN you may play the >tape. If he continued to try for the tape player, I removed it. I did not >repeat what I had said - remember, our kids are not stupid, only retarded - >they need time to process not have words dinging at the them. > >Also, if he started bleating and sat on the floor, I reminded hiim to make >good choices to earn a star and then stopped talking. There were differing >opinions as to whether to maintain eye contact or to ignor him. I decided >over time that eye contact when he was stonewalloing made the situation >worse, so our written plan was to used planned ignoring. Issue a directive, >make sure he heard me - got his attention FIRST, then saat down or walked >to >the side and waited. IT has taken him up to an hour to comply at some >point. Now he generally does whats asked of him with a small - almost >hesitation- and then he does whats asked. > >DON " T GIVE UP - it doesn't happen over nite - or even over weeks. It has >taken us years to get where we are. > >Of course Saturday nite we went to a blue grass concert where we go every >month. Elie got out of the car and then refused to enter the building. >Took 30 minutes of my waiting and then a switch to dh telling him to come >in. We got in our seats as the first song began. > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > > > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: RE: non compliance advice > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:40:05 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Sue and Sara-- > > I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and > >let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching >of > >time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " > >card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that > >a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior > >interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The > >Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago > >but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply > >with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, >please. " ) > >and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help > >you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with > >helping him up. > > > > I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior > >Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to > >follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change > >that I as hopeful for more. > > > > The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful > >with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. > >That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any > >chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing > >distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him > >succeed. > > > > I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal > >and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in > >it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from >0% > >of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by > >training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give > >reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally > >reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. > > > > Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . > > > > Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) > > > > > >sara cohen wrote: > > Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has > >impeded his > >learning for years. > > > >While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want >him > >to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line > >though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) >to > >protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. > > > >For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with > >either > >a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule >for > >the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an > >80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF >treat > >day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in > >school when he told us about his day at home. > > > >While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did >markedly > >REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply > >(eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). > > > >This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. >The > >class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, >she > >just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She > >does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns > >in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this > >year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a > >quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a >friend. > >He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. > > > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > > > >From: Caregar@... > > >Reply-To: > > >To: > > >Subject: non compliance advice > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > > > > > >Hi, > > >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, > > >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience > >last > > >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's > > >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. > > >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > > > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown > >will > > >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at >times > > >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the > > >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the >schedule > > >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, >but > > >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) > > >__________________________________________________________ > > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and >security > > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the > >web, > > >free AOL Mail and more. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 We have used the school psychologist, a private MS level behavior counselor and a classroom teacher. The key is someone who understands how to do a functional behavior assessment (and how I laughed and mocked the first time I read a book on FBA thinking it was HOOEY). Doing a FBA and thinking about what CAUSES (the antecedent) the behavior , and then working on the consequence (which could be what someone receives from the behavior that is rewarding to them) - not just a discipline measure . Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. >From: Caregar@... >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: Re: non compliance advice >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:56:45 -0400 > > Thanks for the ideas about compliance for 's school. We have >wonderful communication with the new school so I am passing ideas along >when we talk. We have talked about being more proactive with the sensory >stuff. One question, where do I find a behaviorist? We do see a >therapist in her office, but are you all talking about someone who comes to >home or school to observe the child in that setting? > had three great days this week, so I thought we were maybe on our >way. But, here I am sitting at home after picking her up this morning. >She ran out of the building and sat on the tennis courts for 50 minutes >using colorful language and refused to work once they got her in. She told >them she was in charge of the world. They handled things so much better >than last year. >Never a dull moment..... >Sue (Norah 18, 13 mosaic DS, ADHD, mood and anxiety) > > > >Re: non compliance advice >Posted by: " sara cohen " pastmidvale@... pastmidvale >Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 am (PST) >We also used a psychologist/behavorist to clarify exactly what and how to >make requests of Elie. It was vital that all of us (home and school) >request/require that Elie comply over the same issues and the same way. > >Thus, if I said - " Time to get dressed " and Elie went to turn on his tape >player, I told him NO - First you get dressed and THEN you may play the >tape. If he continued to try for the tape player, I removed it. I did not >repeat what I had said - remember, our kids are not stupid, only retarded - >they need time to process not have words dinging at the them. > >Also, if he started bleating and sat on the floor, I reminded hiim to make >good choices to earn a star and then stopped talking. There were differing >opinions as to whether to maintain eye contact or to ignor him. I decided >over time that eye contact when he was stonewalloing made the situation >worse, so our written plan was to used planned ignoring. Issue a directive, >make sure he heard me - got his attention FIRST, then saat down or walked >to >the side and waited. IT has taken him up to an hour to comply at some >point. Now he generally does whats asked of him with a small - almost >hesitation- and then he does whats asked. > >DON " T GIVE UP - it doesn't happen over nite - or even over weeks. It has >taken us years to get where we are. > >Of course Saturday nite we went to a blue grass concert where we go every >month. Elie got out of the car and then refused to enter the building. >Took 30 minutes of my waiting and then a switch to dh telling him to come >in. We got in our seats as the first song began. > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > > > >Reply-To: > >To: > >Subject: RE: non compliance advice > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:40:05 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Sue and Sara-- > > I have to second what Sara wrote. It helps to have a clear schedule and > >let your child know clearly what is expected of him/her. Early teaching >of > >time to take a " break " can help. The child can learn to utilize a " break " > >card or a sign for break if they cannot verbalize it. Have you asked that > >a qualified Behaviorist assess to see if some positive behavior > >interventions may help both the staff and to know how far to go.The > >Behaviorist we have for home came into our lives just about 9 months ago > >but it has made a great difference. Our son, DJ, has learned to comply > >with simple requests after the first request (ie " DJ get up now, >please. " ) > >and certainly does by the second ( " DJ get up now,please, or I will help > >you. " ) at which time we MUST be ready and willing to folow through with > >helping him up. > > > > I feel we are at the beginning of our journey with ABA (Applied Behavior > >Analysis) and I am really having to fight with the school to et them to > >follow through in the classsroom, but it has made such a positive change > >that I as hopeful for more. > > > > The Behaviorist emphasized to my dh and I that DJ must be successful > >with any task we ask him to perform for him to want to repeat the task. > >That sometimes means we must think things through carefully, removing any > >chance of failure, so that he has the best chance of success. Removing > >distractions and breaking tasks down to doable components helps him > >succeed. > > > > I have been online researching for an upcoming IEP. I read this goal > >and it started me thinking. Maybe you will find some food for thought in > >it as well. It was: ny will increase in-seat, on-task behavior from >0% > >of the time currently to 50% of the time by the end of the school year by > >training the teacher in positive behavior interventions that give > >reinforcement for in-seat, on-task behavior and do not unintentionally > >reinforce ny by giving attention to out of seat behavior. > > > > Here's hoping for the BEST for you and . > > > > Donnell (Mom to DJ-age11) > > > > > >sara cohen wrote: > > Compliance has been such a big issue with Elie that it has > >impeded his > >learning for years. > > > >While I don't want him " trained " to follow orders like a dog, I do want >him > >to know that he must follow his teachers' directives. There is a line > >though where he must retain the ability (or actually, gain the ability) >to > >protect himself against abuse. He does not have that protective device. > > > >For 4 years we used a picture report sheet where he was rewarded with > >either > >a star or a happy face after compliance with each item on his schedule >for > >the day (could be as many as 10 in a day). He was allowed to consider an > >80% day as an overall Star Day, gaining him the reward of Friday TGIF >treat > >day if he had 4 star days. He also earned $.25/day he got a star in > >school when he told us about his day at home. > > > >While this did not eliminate meltdowns or refusal to work, it did >markedly > >REDUCE them. If it wasn't on his schedule, he could choose not to comply > >(eat lunch, use his free time, play computer, etc). > > > >This year - his last year of h/s, his new teacher uses no report card. >The > >class schedule is posted in picture and word. If he refuses to comply, >she > >just tells him that he forfeits his snack for the day - he can chose. She > >does not repeat herself, he can opt to do nothing. He has had 2 meltdowns > >in the 7 weeks he has been in school. He also has only hit out once this > >year. Instead of going to the " behavior room " , his teacher took him to a > >quiet part of her class and read him a social story on how to be a >friend. > >He spent the rest of the day " helping " the student he hit. > > > >Sara - Choose to make lemonade, not complain about the lemons. > > > > >From: Caregar@... > > >Reply-To: > > >To: > > >Subject: non compliance advice > > >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:57:22 -0700 > > > > > >Hi, > > >I need some ideas, again. I wrote a few weeks ago about my daughter, > > >, who is starting a new middle school after a horrible experience > >last > > >year. The staff at the new school has been great, although 's > > >behavior has not. I think she needs time to get comfortable with it. > > >One of the things that the staff has questions about it how far to push > > > to comply. They're afraid that if they push too hard a meltdown > >will > > >occur. I'm assuming is not the only child on this list who at >times > > >refuses to do things and would rather run the show. So, how have the > > >teachers who work with your kids helped your kids to follow the >schedule > > >and do what they need to do? We have compliance issues at home, too, >but > > >they have improved lately, and home can just be a more flexable place. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Sue ( 13, mosaic DS, ADHD, mood & anxiety disorder etc.) > > >__________________________________________________________ > > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and >security > > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the > >web, > > >free AOL Mail and more. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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