Re: magic potion

[Guest guest]

but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

sue v

>

>Im currently taking 400 mgs of Sporanox, ketoconazole for my sinuses and

>CSM for my gut and sit in the sauna 4 times a week and while I wasnt

>exposed the meds and the sauna worked great but now that I've been

>reexposed nothing seems to help.

>

>Truth is there is no magic potion if you want to get better extreme

>avoidance is the key

>

[Guest guest]

I can tell you I tried citrisafe in various ways for a while and it never made

any difference.

I've seen quite a bit about thieves oil on the board lately and if it or

citrisafe were all their cracked up to be than why are there so many people

still suffering? Why are there so many living in their cars in the desert? Why

are so many still having to sacrifice everything they own to improve their

health?

[Guest guest]

There has to be another way. I have two kids and moldy parents. What am I going

to do? Seriously.. there have to be logical ways to work this out and have some

sanity and peace in the mix.

I dont expect to be 100% where I was.. 75-90.. the 90% I hear so many people

plateau at, I would love. Some peace with symptoms.. how bad are your symptoms,

Tug?

Robin

>

> but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

> exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

>

> sue v

>

> >

> >Im currently taking 400 mgs of Sporanox, ketoconazole for my sinuses and

> >CSM for my gut and sit in the sauna 4 times a week and while I wasnt

> >exposed the meds and the sauna worked great but now that I've been

> >reexposed nothing seems to help.

> >

> >Truth is there is no magic potion if you want to get better extreme

> >avoidance is the key

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sue who would know about new exposure more than me especially now that the a/c

coils in the hvac have contaminated the house? Is limiting our exposure going to

be enough to recover?

>

> but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

> exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

>

> sue v

>

> >

> >Im currently taking 400 mgs of Sporanox, ketoconazole for my sinuses and

> >CSM for my gut and sit in the sauna 4 times a week and while I wasnt

> >exposed the meds and the sauna worked great but now that I've been

> >reexposed nothing seems to help.

> >

> >Truth is there is no magic potion if you want to get better extreme

> >avoidance is the key

> >

>

[Guest guest]

 There is no way to completely avoid it.

Has your doc. ran any stool labs to see if you need to back off on the

antifungal? You need to balance a probiotic w an anti-fungal 2 hours apart, or

there's a possibility of bad bacteria.

Has anyone heard some times you can get symptoms when your body needs you to cut

back on a sup? It's your body's natural way of letting you know. 

I haven't read the files lately, but would like options of what treatments.

Stories of what others used to get better along with did they leave, get rid of

most or all of their things.  Do we use Antifungals, CSM, or a combo? Is CSM an

option if  you already have low cholesterol?

In most cases if there is a will there is a way to at least improve.  The

problem is our budgets.

Kathy

>>>

From: sue <svican@...>

Subject: Re: [] magic potion

Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:17 PM

but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

sue v

[Guest guest]

I should have said there's no way to avoid it in life. We can get a little bit

out of our homes.

I'm sorry I hope I didn't say anything wrong as one who's not a an rx

antifungal.

I read success in treating yeast, most rotate what is used. Yeast can become

resistant or what your using has done it's job & you're reacting to it.

 I meant we need a probiotic daily while on any antifungal.

Kathy

From: KathyB <calicocat477@...>

Subject: [] Re: magic potion

There is no way to completely avoid it.

Has your doc. ran any stool labs to see if you need to back off on the

antifungal? You need to balance a probiotic w an anti-fungal 2 hours apart, or

there's a possibility of bad bacteria.

Has anyone heard some times you can get symptoms when your body needs you to cut

back on a sup? It's your body's natural way of letting you know. 

I haven't read the files lately, but would like options of what treatments.

Stories of what others used to get better along with did they leave, get rid of

most or all of their things.  Do we use Antifungals, CSM, or a combo? Is CSM an

option if  you already have low cholesterol?

In most cases if there is a will there is a way to at least improve.  The

problem is our budgets.

Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

I've tried citirsafe as well and have had mixed reactions, it certainly didnt

work well enough for me to keep spending my money on it.

>

> I can tell you I tried citrisafe in various ways for a while and it never made

any difference.

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

I just think everyone is different, but the point I was trying to make

is that mold is everywhere, it is actually an essential part of the

whole ecological system, it seems reasonable that you should practice

extreme avoidance because you backslide when you don't, but you are

trying so hard to do that and keep running into new exposures, BECAUSE

mold is everywhere...so, my comment was intended to provoke thought

about WHAT ELSE???? given that mold is everywhere.

Some of the things I hear people doing besides extreme avoidance are:

CSM, sauna, antifungals (you do all these), but also nutritional

supplementation of various stripes (martin pall protocol is one),

allergy testing and treatments because even if you pull all the mold

toxins out of your body w/csm and sauna, and kill the colonization of

mold w/antifungals you may still be hypersensitive to the tiniest bit of

mold in an allergic way, gupta retraining, annie hopper brain

retraining, these both targeted at getting the body to not hyperrespond,

and I am sure there are other things people are doing to try to get to a

point where they aren't continually getting worse w/smaller & shorter

reexposures....

Can someone more knowledgeable than me chime in here?

thanks, sue

>Sue who would know about new exposure more than me especially now that

>the a/c coils in the hvac have contaminated the house? Is limiting our

>exposure going to be enough to recover?

>

>

>

>>

>> but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

>> exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

>>

>> sue v

>>

>> >

>> >Im currently taking 400 mgs of Sporanox, ketoconazole for my sinuses and

>> >CSM for my gut and sit in the sauna 4 times a week and while I wasnt

>> >exposed the meds and the sauna worked great but now that I've been

>> >reexposed nothing seems to help.

>> >

>> >Truth is there is no magic potion if you want to get better extreme

>> >avoidance is the key

>> >

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

by the way, i certainly haven't found the magic potion (yet!), it's been

a 4+ year journey trying to figure out what is making my son sick,

trying to implement therapies and treatment trials in someone who isn't

very cooperative, I certainly don't have all the answers. By the way,

extreme avoidance would be much easier in our house if we actually saw

him reacting to mold....

Currently he is doing lots of supplements, allergy treatments, will soon

start doing sauna again, PT, will restart the antifungals that make him

sick at a lower dose, then will likely take antibiotics...there's a long

long road ahead of him, frankly I have no expectations that anything

will change even though the docs say he can get better, he has no energy

to do anything and it will be hard to get him to sauna, maybe we will

have to go back to the csm which seemed to do nothing, but it doesn't

pull the chemical poisons out, will also have to chelate again at some

point...oh and we left the moldy house for one that appears to be not

moldy but haven't tested....

Cheers, Sue

ue who would know about new exposure more than me especially now that

>the a/c coils in the hvac have contaminated the house? Is limiting our

>exposure going to be enough to recover?

>

>

>

>>

>> but i would argue that extreme avoidance is virtually impossible, new

>> exposures keep happening, so there must be some other way....

>>

>> sue v

>>

>> >

>> >Im currently taking 400 mgs of Sporanox, ketoconazole for my sinuses and

>> >CSM for my gut and sit in the sauna 4 times a week and while I wasnt

>> >exposed the meds and the sauna worked great but now that I've been

>> >reexposed nothing seems to help.

>> >

>> >Truth is there is no magic potion if you want to get better extreme

>> >avoidance is the key

>> >

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes, what budget?? we are so financially depleted by 4+ years of this

craziness.... sue

>In most cases if there is a will there is a way to at least improve. 

>The problem is our budgets.

>

>Kathy

>>>>

[Guest guest]

I agree, I dont think you can completely avoid mold but you have to limit your

exposure in an extreme way. In my own mold filled fogged brain Im always trying

to eliminate more than Im taking in, the only way IMO to do that is to practice

extreme avoidance.

>

>  There is no way to completely avoid it.

>

> Has your doc. ran any stool labs to see if you need to back off on the

antifungal? You need to balance a probiotic w an anti-fungal 2 hours apart, or

there's a possibility of bad bacteria.

>

> Has anyone heard some times you can get symptoms when your body needs you to

cut back on a sup? It's your body's natural way of letting you know. 

>

> I haven't read the files lately, but would like options of what treatments.

>

> Stories of what others used to get better along with did they leave, get rid

of most or all of their things.  Do we use Antifungals, CSM, or a combo? Is CSM

an option if  you already have low cholesterol?

>

> In most cases if there is a will there is a way to at least improve.  The

problem is our budgets.

>

> Kathy

[Guest guest]

Taking antifungals all of the time can lead to liver damage. My friend has

cancer and she is taking some herbal natural teas along with probotics to

control her fungal infections and they are working quite well. She suffered

through a serious case of mersa and was on very high doses of antibiotics. Her

doctor gave her one round of antifungals but no more. We got to keep our livers

functioning properly to be able to allow our bodies to filter the mold toxins

from our bodies. Loading our liver with excessive antifungals will only harm us

more and put too much stress on the liver.

[Guest guest]

Sue I feel so sorry for your son. My symptoms arent nearly as bad as his or most

on this forum but I know how much they affect me and take away from my quality

of life.

Im in a unique situation that I can pick up and move and leave everything behind

but your right there's no guarantees that the next place I move into wont be

moldy as well all I can do is keep trying till someday I will hopefully get it

right.

>

> Dave,

>

> by the way, i certainly haven't found the magic potion (yet!), it's been

> a 4+ year journey trying to figure out what is making my son sick,

> trying to implement therapies and treatment trials in someone who isn't

> very cooperative, I certainly don't have all the answers. By the way,

> extreme avoidance would be much easier in our house if we actually saw

> him reacting to mold....

>

> Currently he is doing lots of supplements, allergy treatments, will soon

> start doing sauna again, PT, will restart the antifungals that make him

> sick at a lower dose, then will likely take antibiotics...there's a long

> long road ahead of him, frankly I have no expectations that anything

> will change even though the docs say he can get better, he has no energy

> to do anything and it will be hard to get him to sauna, maybe we will

> have to go back to the csm which seemed to do nothing, but it doesn't

> pull the chemical poisons out, will also have to chelate again at some

> point...oh and we left the moldy house for one that appears to be not

> moldy but haven't tested....

>

>

> Cheers, Sue

>

[Guest guest]

I have my liver enzymes tested once a month, thank God they've come in normal

every time.

I lived in a hotel for almost 4 months, the first month was extremely hard on me

because I was still reacting so I moved to a different room which didnt help at

all. After the 3rd move I finally started to recover and actually felt pretty

good up until about a month ago. Thats when " it " hit the fan, due to the a/c

coils.

Having been down this road before and knowing what I have to do doesnt make it

any easier but it does tell me it can be done and has made me more knowledgeable

on how to succeed.

>

> Taking antifungals all of the time can lead to liver damage. My friend has

cancer and she is taking some herbal natural teas along with probotics to

control her fungal infections and they are working quite well. She suffered

through a serious case of mersa and was on very high doses of antibiotics. Her

doctor gave her one round of antifungals but no more. We got to keep our livers

functioning properly to be able to allow our bodies to filter the mold toxins

from our bodies. Loading our liver with excessive antifungals will only harm us

more and put too much stress on the liver.

>

[Guest guest]

I do Jin Shin therapy-twice a week when I'm really sick-once a week for

maintenance. It saved my life because it builds up your resistance. But the

truth is, one really bad exposure and I'm back to square one.

>

> Dave,

>

> I just think everyone is different, but the point I was trying to make

> is that mold is everywhere, it is actually an essential part of the

> whole ecological system, it seems reasonable that you should practice

> extreme avoidance because you backslide when you don't, but you are

> trying so hard to do that and keep running into new exposures, BECAUSE

> mold is everywhere...so, my comment was intended to provoke thought

> about WHAT ELSE???? given that mold is everywhere.

>

> Some of the things I hear people doing besides extreme avoidance are:

> CSM, sauna, antifungals (you do all these), but also nutritional

> supplementation of various stripes (martin pall protocol is one),

> allergy testing and treatments because even if you pull all the mold

> toxins out of your body w/csm and sauna, and kill the colonization of

> mold w/antifungals you may still be hypersensitive to the tiniest bit of

> mold in an allergic way, gupta retraining, annie hopper brain

> retraining, these both targeted at getting the body to not hyperrespond,

> and I am sure there are other things people are doing to try to get to a

> point where they aren't continually getting worse w/smaller & shorter

> reexposures....

>

> Can someone more knowledgeable than me chime in here?

>

> thanks, sue

>

[Guest guest]

and check liver function periodically, i am going to have my son's

checked weekly. sue v

>Taking antifungals all of the time can lead to liver damage. My friend

>has cancer and she is taking some herbal natural teas along with

>probotics to control her fungal infections and they are working quite

>well. She suffered through a serious case of mersa and was on very high

>doses of antibiotics. Her doctor gave her one round of antifungals but

>no more. We got to keep our livers functioning properly to be able to

>allow our bodies to filter the mold toxins from our bodies. Loading our

>liver with excessive antifungals will only harm us more and put too much

>stress on the liver.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Die off can def cause exacerbated symptoms. I know yours looked specifically

triggered, Tug. Also, since BBB is probably compromised there are other things

that can cause brain fog, neuro symptoms (im nost clear what all your symptoms

are). And these can include over use of some supps (or meds) or need for others.

If you are draining the transulfuration pathway (methylation) you can have too

much ammonia or sulfur.. this can cause problems (messed up methylation cycle

can cause problems clearing toxins).. you can have an imbalance glutamate gaba

balance.. have you checked your methylation status? Do you have pylolurria?

These are basics that some practioners cover. How are your stools? Do you have

clostridia or strep in the gut? These can effect brain.

Not trying to stop you from trusting your instincts, just wondering if you have

looked at other potentials before making another move.

Robin

>

>  There is no way to completely avoid it.

>

> Has your doc. ran any stool labs to see if you need to back off on the

antifungal? You need to balance a probiotic w an anti-fungal 2 hours apart, or

there's a possibility of bad bacteria.

>

> Has anyone heard some times you can get symptoms when your body needs you to

cut back on a sup? It's your body's natural way of letting you know. 

>

> I haven't read the files lately, but would like options of what treatments.

>

> Stories of what others used to get better along with did they leave, get rid

of most or all of their things.  Do we use Antifungals, CSM, or a combo? Is CSM

an option if  you already have low cholesterol?

>

> In most cases if there is a will there is a way to at least improve.  The

problem is our budgets.

>

> Kathy

[Guest guest]

omg, Tug, why dont you explain to me what seperates extreme advoidance from

advoidance.

what is the difference.

heres how I see it.

the difference is that you add the word extreme, you act extreme, everything

becomes extreme , you add extreme stressfullness to the situation.

mold is everywhere, after you are sickened by the first exposure

your body is going through alot, you now react to many chemicals

not just mold, and sure and the hell, not just mycotoxins.

you have with your exposure been exposed to a whole lot more than mold,and

mycotoxins, you now are reactive to a whole lot more than mold and mycotoxins.

advoidance is to avoid everything that involves chemicals as best as possable.

weither in the air or in things you eat.

the idea is to be free enough of these things that you body

mellows out from the constant reactive state to the state where than, apon a

re-exposure you well see the difference in the way that you will experence a

worseining of your reactions.

when you start reconizeing that you are experienceing worsoning reaction, that

means you are no longer at the same level of exposure that you were at during

you initial exposure, your body has went from a constant reactive state to a

state of reacting with each new exposure. than you have reconize these are

re-exposures.

than you focus or advoiding situations that cause re-exposures.

>

>

>

> I agree, I dont think you can completely avoid mold but you have to limit your

exposure in an extreme way. In my own mold filled fogged brain Im always trying

to eliminate more than Im taking in, the only way IMO to do that is to practice

extreme avoidance.

>

[Guest guest]

PS, this hasn't got a damn thing to do with cross contamination.

cross contamination would be keeping in the same,

exposure as initial exposure.

what exect would that mean, it's not walking into another seperate WDB. you can

have tottally different reactions and some of the same reactions in a different

WDB exposure.

cross contamination means you are still exposed to your first WDB exposure by

means of the contaminates of the first WDB exposure

being brought to another place. even this will mean your not in the same

building, so your at a lesser dose of exposure. however you are going to be

reactive to those things you brought to that new building,

no matter what it is, cloths ect.

thats why it is in agreement that you dont take things from your WDB into a new

place. now, if you want too and deside to you can try to decontaminate some or

all of your belongings, store any or all your belongings or walk away from them

all, thats your choise.

frankly, I'm sick of hearing about cross contamination and extreme advoidance

and sujest that the word extreme and anything to do with the word extreme be

kept in the extreme reactors group and not be brought here. theres a reason why

I didn't go to that group and I dont appresiate it constantly being bought back

into this group.

>

>

>

> I agree, I dont think you can completely avoid mold but you have to limit your

exposure in an extreme way. In my own mold filled fogged brain Im always trying

to eliminate more than Im taking in, the only way IMO to do that is to practice

extreme avoidance.

>

[Guest guest]

Robin my symptoms are tolerable, the only thing that really bothers me is my

sense of balance is slightly off but that only occurs while im in the house once

i leave my balance returns and i feel better. i can always tell when ive been

exposed because the back of my neck hurts more than you can possibly imagine,

oddly enough that sensation only happens when i drive my truck or when im in the

living room during the evening hours but here lately it's not nearly as bad as

it once was.

when i was first exposed my nose bled constantly and every dr i saw said it was

because it was so dry out and i had extremely loud tinnitus. In the past 3

months my nose stopped bleeding, the tinnitus has diminished somewhat and my

neck doesnt hurt as much or as often but my sense of balance has gotten worst

more than likely due to my recent cross contamination.

Something else to take into consideration my initial exposure was only 6 weeks

and for 2 of those weeks I had a air scrubber going 24/7 which at the time

helped immensely where as you from what I understand have been exposed for

years, correct?

Were going to have some air samples done tomorrow (Saturday) that should give me

a better idea of what Im dealing with

I'd like to apologize for going off on you earlier, im under allot of pressure

and another one of the many mold symptoms are irritability.

>

> There has to be another way. I have two kids and moldy parents. What am I

going to do? Seriously.. there have to be logical ways to work this out and have

some sanity and peace in the mix.

>

> I dont expect to be 100% where I was.. 75-90.. the 90% I hear so many people

plateau at, I would love. Some peace with symptoms.. how bad are your symptoms,

Tug?

>

> Robin

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin, I've experienced herxheimer's reaction a few times so yes I know what

it feels like. The first time it happened I thought I was going to die because I

wasnt sure what it was but after talking to Sharon she assured me it was a good

thing and to drink a small amount of oj should it happen again. The second time

it happened even though I was sicker than a dog I was glad it was happening only

because I knew the steps that I had taken to avoid mold were working and that my

system was doing what it's supposed to do. Needless to say it hasn't happened

for some time and probably wont happen till I move out of this house

>

> Die off can def cause exacerbated symptoms. I know yours looked specifically

triggered, Tug. Also, since BBB is probably compromised there are other things

that can cause brain fog, neuro symptoms (im nost clear what all your symptoms

are). And these can include over use of some supps (or meds) or need for others.

>

> If you are draining the transulfuration pathway (methylation) you can have too

much ammonia or sulfur.. this can cause problems (messed up methylation cycle

can cause problems clearing toxins).. you can have an imbalance glutamate gaba

balance.. have you checked your methylation status? Do you have pylolurria?

These are basics that some practioners cover. How are your stools? Do you have

clostridia or strep in the gut? These can effect brain.

>

> Not trying to stop you from trusting your instincts, just wondering if you

have looked at other potentials before making another move.

>

> Robin

[Guest guest]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it but if you don't like my definition

of extreme avoidance and how I use the term you can always skip over my replies

and go to the next response, the choice is yours.

> frankly, I'm sick of hearing about cross contamination and extreme advoidance

and sujest that the word extreme and anything to do with the word extreme be

kept in the extreme reactors group and not be brought here. theres a reason why

I didn't go to that group and I dont appresiate it constantly being bought back

into this group.

>

[Guest guest]

I used the term cross contamination because thats the way it was explained to my

by individuals who make a living by eliminating mold from your residence

If your not happy with the terms that I use or the way that I use them the

please by all means skip my reply and go to the next response. Personally Im

surprised the moderaters allow you to come onto this forum and use such foul

language and I for one am sick and tired of it.

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree, I dont think you can completely avoid mold but you have to limit

your exposure in an extreme way. In my own mold filled fogged brain Im always

trying to eliminate more than Im taking in, the only way IMO to do that is to

practice extreme avoidance.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

what part do you not get?

the word extreme just causes stress, advoidance is advoidance, if you dont do

it, your not getting better.

cross contamination is a very limmited thing,if it even happens at all. and

every time you fell bad it is not because of cross contamination.

Carl spent alot of time trying to get you to understand.

>>

> I used the term cross contamination because thats the way it was explained to

my by individuals who make a living by eliminating mold from your residence

>

> If your not happy with the terms that I use or the way that I use them the

please by all means skip my reply and go to the next response.

[Guest guest]

I hve that too and thought it was lyme. May be for me. I have CFS, ALS/MS type

symptoms. Pretty scary right now. I used to work out 3-5 days a week and now I

cant clean my own house and my best friend, worst enemy is my sofa. Neuro

inflammation comes and goes, so generally I can process.. when I get neuro

inflammation flares or hits I have the emotions flare or bottom out, brain fog,

memory dropping out. One day I woke up and forgot my kids names.. it was like I

had amnesia. ive had similar memory issues happen.. where memory just drops off

into blankness. POTS.OI symptoms cause crazy feeling symptoms. Very weak arms

and legs, breathless drives me insane at times. Shoemaker labs soon.

Robin

>

> Robin my symptoms are tolerable, the only thing that really bothers me is my

sense of balance is slightly off but that only occurs while im in the house once

i leave my balance returns and i feel better. i can always tell when ive been

exposed because the back of my neck hurts more than you can possibly imagine,

oddly enough that sensation only happens when i drive my truck or when im in the

living room during the evening hours but here lately it's not nearly as bad as

it once was.

>

>