ABA and kids?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/6/2006 8:29:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

mick8_7@... writes:

Someone said they use pain to teach our kids.

They use ABA as one of the modalities with Trisha and I have never heard nor

seen them use pain with her. I don't know what they used to do with ABA, I

can only speak from our experience we are having now and it has proven to be

what Trisha needed and has been very helpful.

It sounds like maybe there are some who either has heard myths that are

untrue or outdated or they don't have any idea what ABA is all about. The sad

part is that there are parents out there who may believe them and chose not to

try something whether it be ABA or some other form of modality because they

believe what they hear. I would highly recommend suggesting to those other

parents that they do some research before making up their minds. :-)

_What is ABA?_ (http://rsaffran.tripod.com/whatisaba.html)

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you've always

gotten.

[Guest guest]

In the Apraxia group there is a debate on using ABA for apraxic children. I was

not an ABA believer even though I put Mic in the ABA school. I am now and I also

believe ABA would help any child with difficulties.Mics school is opening its

doors to other children not just asd kids as of September. The director fought

long and hard to get the state to agree.They separate the classrooms according

to need. An apraxic child would not be in a classroom with an aggressive asd

child.I believe ABA can help all children.And some people are very judgemental

about having their children in a classroom with asd kids.I had no idea people

looked at our kids like they do not belong with their children because we have

autism.And ABA is some kind of abuse. Wanted to hear some opinions on this, in

Mics school they modify the ABA to fit the childs needs.Someone said they use

pain to teach our kids.I simply posted that maybe the parents should go sit in

ABA classroom for a few days in the beginning of

the school year and then go back in maybe 3 months and see the improvemment in

these kids.I am real disappointed to read that parents do not want our asd kids

in the same room with their kids.Although some of the parents like me are

willing to give it a try and I am so glad I did. Laurie

[Guest guest]

Zola, ASD, is only 17 months, but she has had an ABA instructor comes

here to the house 2 hours a day 5 days a week, started last week. I am

so impressed! Even in a weeks time there are noticeable differences in

her eye contact and sound making. Wow. Her teacher is a very good match

for Zola, style and temperament wise. However, the teaching protocol is

formalized and seems to me very effective. I can give more of a report

as time passes.

Ursula

> In the Apraxia group there is a debate on using ABA for apraxic

> children. I was not an ABA believer even though I put Mic in the ABA

> school. I am now and I also believe ABA would help any child with

> difficulties.Mics school is opening its doors to other children not

> just asd kids as of September. The director fought long and hard to

> get the state to agree.They separate the classrooms according to need.

> An apraxic child would not be in a classroom with an aggressive asd

> child.I believe ABA can help all children.And  some people are very

> judgemental about having their children in a classroom with asd kids.I

> had no idea people looked at our kids like they do not belong with

> their children because we have autism.And ABA is some kind of abuse.

> Wanted to hear some opinions on this, in Mics school they modify the

> ABA to fit the childs needs.Someone said they use pain to teach our

> kids.I simply posted that maybe the parents should go sit in ABA

> classroom for a few days in the be ginning of

> the school year and then go back in maybe 3 months and see the

> improvemment in these kids.I am real disappointed to read that parents

> do not want our asd kids in the same room with their kids.Although

> some of the parents  like me  are willing to give it a try and I am so

> glad I did.  Laurie

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOW, we are just getting started on all of this and my son will be 21 on

Wed. I have written before about our story so I will not go into all the

details again. What is important is will, ABA work with someone who is 21.

Zach is verbal and sometimes response are right on but most the time when he

tries to tell us something that happened at work he leaves out many of the

details and then repeats and repeats like a stuck record,echolia. He stares

at things as though hypnotized at time. I think you all know what I am

talking about. Zach has a desire to learn and we are not doing him any

service at present by not trying to meet his needs. Years ago in middle

school when I brought up autism it was just brushed off and not addressed

and I thought Zach did not need another diagnosis. DENIAL, I recognize it

now. Since school which was very structured and routine for him he did

fine. Since school and in a work situation and at home we are see

regression and more and more of the behaviors than ever. However we had a

eval and meeting at work the other day, Zach works in a " sheltered type

workshop " , for lack of a better name for it, and it was one of the best

meetings ever. He has a new case worker, Debbie and the person who works

with him on the floor is Tammy. Both were there. Also the county working,

Hiedi, who I also really like. Anyway the meeting started and Tammy started

by saying that when Zach puts things on the conveyor belt he will sit there

and watch them. I said, well is he watching them or kind of in a trance.

(See I had decided that at this meeting we could not longer ignore what was

going on with Zach it needed to be addressed). She says he is like in a

trance. This is my oppurtunity. I say well back when Zach was tested by a

psychologist at 18 for the guardianship, the psychologist diagnosised Zach

with autism. All of a sudden, Debbie slaps her hand on the table and say " I

knew it! " and she repeats this over and over. I look at her in

astonishment. She says we have been seeing so many of the behaviors here at

work and I wanted to ask you about them and bring up autism but was

uncertain of how you would respond. Needless to say the rest of the meeting

went wonderfully since we were all on the same page together. One of things

Zach does at work, is at lunch time he sits at a large round table and

spreads out all he food, all in their given particular places and covering

the whole table. Well along come the other kids who sit down and push all

Zach's food out of their given spots and towards him. He gets very upset.

So what Tammy did, at Christmas time she made him a large placemat that

covers his area and that is his space. When Christmas was over she made

another placemat using pictures and from Phantom of the Opera, his favorite.

It is so cool. It is a good size placement and he is happy and cooperative

with it. Now they would like to gradually make it smaller and smaller until

it is to a normal size. So they are on a track. Debbie however was not

familiar with ABA and what it was but I can tell she is open. So where do

we go from here?

So we are new to all of this and desperate to find information. I went to

Amazon to look for books on ABA but there are many. Does anyone have any

opinions of where to start and what would be some good basic starting books

to get us started? We are open to all new suggestions here.

Zach loves music, especially the oldies. Every year Mueller puts on

the Winter Dance Party up in GreenBay. Mueller looks very much and

sounds alot like Buddy Holly. He has a whole show with the Big Bopper

(actually the real Big Bopper's son) and a guy who does Richie Valenz and

then the band. See one of Buddy Holly's lasts shows before his airplane

crash was in Green Bay at Riverside Ballroom. This is where they still have

the show today and it has not changed much. Anyway Zach looks forward to

this every year and his uncle gave him tickets for a Christmas gift. Well

when the day for the show was getting close, Zach came up to me and said, I

want to take a girlfriend? I said, a girlfriend to see Buddy Holly? He

said yes, a girlfriend. Isaid, who would you like to take? He began naming

these girls that he went to school with a couple of years ago and who were

in " Partners class " with him. I said, Zach those girls are all gone

different places now and some are away at school. He did not understand, he

just kept repeating that he wanted to take a girlfriend. The next thing he

did was to go get his yearbook from high school and started to point out the

girls pictures. Apparently he did not thing I understood. And again I

tried to explain it to him. It breaks a parents heart not to be able to

fulfill that dream for him. He went to the show with his dad and had a

great time and settled for not taking a girlfriend.

Well this is long enough, again if anyone can help us get started with ABA

and send us on the path we need to be I will be very happy.

, mom of Zach age 21

Re: ABA and kids?

>

> In a message dated 2/6/2006 8:29:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> mick8_7@... writes:

>

> Someone said they use pain to teach our kids.

>

>

> They use ABA as one of the modalities with Trisha and I have never heard

> nor

> seen them use pain with her. I don't know what they used to do with ABA,

> I

> can only speak from our experience we are having now and it has proven to

> be

> what Trisha needed and has been very helpful.

> It sounds like maybe there are some who either has heard myths that are

> untrue or outdated or they don't have any idea what ABA is all about.

> The sad

> part is that there are parents out there who may believe them and chose

> not to

> try something whether it be ABA or some other form of modality because

> they

> believe what they hear. I would highly recommend suggesting to those

> other

> parents that they do some research before making up their minds. :-)

>

> _What is ABA?_ (http://rsaffran.tripod.com/whatisaba.html)

>

> Carol

> Trishasmom

> She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

> If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you've

> always

> gotten.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I think ABA can help but I have never seen an older kid start. I put Mic

in ABA skeptically and waited and figured nothing else was really getting thru

to him.Their are lots of other moms here with older children and I am wondering

what they think.By the way denial, I was waiting for someone to tell me no not

asd, sensory integration dysfunction.I did not get him dxed because of that

until I needed the services.Theres alot of info out there on ABA I went to many

workshops on ABA/ VB. The workshops help, I go to everyone I can get to.I always

learn something new everytime. And it doesnt hurt me to keep hearing the same

stuff all over again until I get it, maybe I could use alittle ABA. Laurie

www.sage.edu/caba www.ablebehavior.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/7/2006 11:21:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

ICANFIELD@... writes:

This is when I had started having seen by the ABA clinic that

implements Verbal Behavior and noticed the VB techniques had worked

on him.

When ABA is used correctly it uses many modalities including VB and DTT

along with many others and it does not use adversives. The sad part is that

many

people still read the old information from 20 years ago and believe it is

still the same. Just like in anything else, as the time goes by improvements

are made or adjustments to the teaching to reflect what has been learned over

the years. Trisha has made so much improvement using the ABA technique

along with other modalities that after careful assessment were incorporated.

ABA

like anything else needs to be geared to the needs of the individual

child/person so that what you see with one child might not be the same with

what you

see with another child but they all use ABA methods. I studied B. F.

Skinner back when I was majoring in Mental Health Tech. in College and back

then

what we now call ABA was called Behavior Modification. See what I mean about

how things change with the times? I was doing Behavior Mod before it was

popular to be doing it in my practicums. lol

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you've always

gotten.

[Guest guest]

I don't know about ABA but I can tell you what I have found in the

adult world. I don't recall ABA being mentioned that this was what they

were doing. I have frequently heard about Positive Behavior Support and

two of my favorite sites are http://www.nau.edu/ihd/positive/ and NADD

site http://www.thenadd.org/. PBS has been talked about at ARC of IL

and NADD conferences we have attended in the past 7 years. To look at

the person with dignity and respect and with the collection of data

figure out the reason some behavior is occurring and then do what is

needed to help that person. Maybe there are environmental changes that

need to be done if the person doesn't like to be crowded on the van so

they arrange that the person has more space. There are so many

environmental or situational things that could be changed to make the

person comfortable.

I am very impressed with the understanding of the staff who works with

your son, they observed him, saw a need, and did something to help him.

This is half the battle. I am curious it doesn't sound like they asked

for a copy of the psychological that was done that identified the

autism, usually that is part of the admission info they request.

Sounds like Zach had a great time at the show, it is hard and difficult

to help them understand about not being able to ask the girl he wanted

to the show.

I am assuming Zach also has Down syndrome, is that correct?

Louise Mom to 43 DS, Hearing Impaired, ASD (diagnosed age 41)

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006

[Guest guest]

Laurie and all,

You know I am a big fan of ABA/Verbal Behavior but with other

strategies/techniques used along with it. I would include major visual

support with words to support literacy not decoding but comprehension.

Research has shown in many area picture words encourages speech

production if you get the pictures worked and of course the sensory

diet as this is what has been the most effective treatments for .

Of course unable to speak about the HS he attends implementing these

techniques due to the lack of training and of course the issue of ABA

still not used in the school district just yet. They do use some visual

supports but they still lack around 's learning abilities. They

focus too much on the Vocational Skills, which is nice once they reach

the HS level but they tend to forget the other areas which are the

communication goals and basic functional skills. If the staff were

knowledgeable how to use ABA around the Vocational Training skills then

I'm pretty sure would not have regressed in some areas. At least

not here at home now that I'm back to implement it, its him learning to

generalize anywhere.

Other than that at HS his social skills he has made some good progress

in this area. I spoke to Peggy Lou in regards to the social stories and

totally agree that Carol Gray has very specific rule about how the

social stories are used and most of what I heard from her at one of the

conference helps kids/adults under the spectrum with HF or Aspergers.

So in our case we adapt using " Personal planning stories " , which Carol

and Louise has also shared with me too. I really appreciate it! But of

of course when you're dealing with Apraxia or physically wrong with the

mouth other issues must be addressed.

Many educators whom I met a couple of weeks ago, were learning about

Teaching Nine Critical Communication Skills with Anne Hoffman,

developed by S. Bondy,Ph.D. & Lori Frost, M.S.,CCC/SLP and guess

which program is incorporated into this system? Behold Applied Behavior

Analysis(ABA). Using Verbal Behavior to Analyze Language and PECS.

Many SLP whom I met are noticing that there is a challenge with

child/adult under the spectrum which requires more than the typical

speech therapy approach which is not enough. Due to the communication,

language, sensory, oral motor, play skills that must be tailored to the

individuals needs and which program have they used that is the most

effective? ABA, which has helped their clients.

Last Saturday I attended another workshop and I noticed alot of new

faces and a majority of them were future Special ED or General Ed

students and set educators learning about Positive Behavior

Supports/Pro-Active Changes to Challenging Behavior and ABA/VB with

ex-ABA therapist as the presenter. They were pretty overwhelmed

but at the end I ended up sharing how it was one of the most effective

programs for some of our kids under the spectrum and at least they had

a foot in the door when all other program fail for an individual with

alot of challenges and of course shared a little of and that it

is never too late to teach anyone ABA. They ended up wanting to hear

more and they even followed me out to the parking lot, so what a

different tune if I had not been there. The only reason why I spoke up

was the fact of how I too was pretty overwhelmed when I first heard

about ABA so when I read their facial expressions something told me to

speak up.

I also told them what to google search, certain books to read in the

mean time and by reading up on people who lives with the spectrum but

just remember every individual have a different learning style and of

course please listen to the parents with their concerns they know their

child the best. Then I had to leave because I had a fever, bummer but

glad I stucked it out, doing well as I rested all weekend and back in

action again but taking it easy. Of course had to share my side of

this.

Irma,17,DS/ASD

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie,

It is nice to know that there is actually a program that is one of

the most effective intervention that has helped Mic and of course my

son and others here on the list whom have shared their

stories/experiences.

ABA therapy was pretty behind here where I live so this was a

different arena which I needed to do some homework on and I kept

reading and hearing alot of the Lovass method, which entailed

aversive techniques. The child was forced to be seated, sometimes

slapped on the lap which are just a few of what I have heard or seen

on videos, so it left a bad reputation for ABA, but the Lovass

analysis is no longer implemented with these types of aversive

techniques. Many families are seeing great progress with their child

using this method. I've noticed that there alot of ABA In-Home

trainer here where I live are starting to say " We do ABA " . Guess

what? It's not the proper program and this type would do more harm

than good, especially if it had been with . I've met several of

them and they were shocked with all the questions I has asked them

and of course I'll then twist it and ask them if they are going to be

certified? If so I have a few contacts they could have as mentor and

they are now receiving some training and will began their journey

towards the certification. Thank God!

Back in the days as I kept researching I needed more answers. That is

when I ran across the work of Skinner's analysis which actually

caught my interest. The knowledge of ABA has come a long way,

physically has come a long way here in SA which has been about 5

years ago so that is really good and hopefully not such a bad word

here anymore.

What is ABA? You will hear alot saying that do ABA,some will say they

do DTT and there is alot more involved in ABA. What is not ABA? ABA

is not DTT (Discrete Trial Teaching).DTT is only 1 of ABA's thousands

of techniques. Those are those teaching the form of Lovass. DTT is

essentially when you're doing intense therapy at a table, you have a

very particular goal in mind you were trying to reach and you'll go

through a whole teaching procedure to do that. It is not a a natural

environment technique and you have a certain number of objects out,

maybe you have 3 objects out and you're trying to teach them to touch

something so you ask them to touch the ball and if they don't so you

go to physical prompting and then you'll go back to react to get them

to get the ball. So you're only working on one thing and broken it

down to not only on you working on ball but you're only working on

receptively touching it. So that is that very DTT of only that

instead of the job, working on label.

There is a reason for all behavior. Techniques and implementations

are based upon objective criteria (data-based decision making).

Whenever your trying to do behavior you want to make sure you're

looking directly at that child and not taking information from a

teacher who's manage interpretation of what the behavior looks like

and why it occured? One ABA is not continue, intervention should be

socially significant and improve the child's quality of life, so a

behavior person should work on things that are more functional and

that could be play and language, like at school it will be academic.

Emphasis is on reinforcers, not punishers which is very important

basically look at what we could do to reinforce the behavior and

reinforce the behavior more often as opposed to learning procedure of

stop it, stop it that is punishing. Internal states are frowned on as

explanation (he's lazy). Think of progress in terms of performance,

not learning, (incremental progress, acquisition, retentions...). The

next steps would be What to Look at Before a Behavior Assessment? The

list goes on with learning about ABA.

This is when I had started having seen by the ABA clinic that

implements Verbal Behavior and noticed the VB techniques had worked

on him. Still attend the workshops and conferences as a refreshers

course. I'll never forget when I had just arrived home from the 3-day

conference with Dr. Vicent Carbone on Teaching Verbal Behavior to

Children with Autism and Related Disabilities and on that very same

night on one of the nightly news there was a couple struggling and

sharing their stories and one of the segments had shown their kids

receiving ABA. After what I had learned and watching this was all a

different intervention to me, it had seemed pretty aversive, so

thanks to the media sharing these types of stories but I know it was

to help the couple and many needing assistants due our kids under the

spectrum and how hard it is to pay for the proper services needed,

the lack of funds. At least the word got out about ABA but if I had

seen this before the conference then I probably would of had another

opinion. Its just watching and educating ourselves and knowing what

works with trials and errors with our own challenges.

Irma,17,DS/ASD

[Guest guest]

Testing,

Carol did you get my reply on this? Seems like it did not get through,

bummer.

Irma

>

> When ABA is used correctly it uses many modalities including VB and

DTT along with many others and it does not use adversives. The sad

part is that many people still read the old information from 20 years

ago and believe it is still the same.