Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in Vaccines? And Related Questions

[Guest guest]

I am an infrequent poster on this newsgroup. I am not convinced that vaccines or thimerosal cause or contribute to autism but I am not convinced they do not either. My position can be viewed as fence sitting or keeping an open mind until all the evidence is in. On my Facing Autism in New Blog I posted a comment titled: Has Thimerosal Actually Been Removed From Vaccines? If Not, Of What Value Are the Epidemiological Studies?I do not post this info looking for blog visits. In the comment I mentioned Dr Healy's position that the research, particularly clinical research, to refute a thimerosal link has not been done. I also question the epidemiological studies claiming that autism rates

remained stable or rose after removal of thimerosal. I do so based on FDA statements which to me indicate that thimerosal has not been removed from all child vaccines AND because the FDA statements indicate that they consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed. I know these subjects are much discussed on this newsgroup and ask if any of you can help answer questions I have about this subject:1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I

quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because

internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

Dear Harrold

From a fellow canadian , who has been doing fairly extensive Reserach

on the subject of mercury in vaccine in Canada , I might of help!

Presently at this time that mercury level range from 50 to 100MG per

shots in 1994 to 25Mg to 50Mg in 2002 , .

In the case of visible minoroties the councentration where higher add

about 15 to 25Mg .( this might explain the higher ratio of visible

minorities with the more severe forms of autism).

after 2002 I am not sure !!!!!

It is important to understand that our group have discovereed some

major discrpencies assocaited to Vaccines such as the PENTA (DPwT IVP

with Hib ) ( 1994-1998) and Pentacell Version I ( 1998 to 2002).

At this time it is fairly clear that Health canada (dept of

Biologicts ) and the provincial Gouv may have been involved in

producing false and misleading information in regards to these two

vaccines , in regards to the different chemical assocaited to

Phenol , formoldehyde and mercury.

I am not sure what you seing in your special school in the maritime ,

but its clear that on the montreal we are seing a major demographic

shift .

In the case of childreen with severe form of autism behavior , we can

observe a major drop in numbers in the 4 major special school

catering to this clientele born after 2002-2003 on the Island of

Montreal.

When you look at the demographics in these school , it is notable to

mention in the class room in the 6 to 10 year age group , the

childreen are 100% visible minorities , in the case of the 11 to 16

age group the ratio is 50% visible minorites VS 50% French/English .

( Note after 1998 , French /English childreen mercury councentration

drop significantly)

It is important to understand that visble monorities only represent

25% of the childreen population on the island of Montreal in the 6 to

16 age group .

In the case of children presenting PDD behavior such as Asperger and

Autism ( Not Specified) , those numbers are very high , but the

growth rates in the age group 6 to 9 , seems to have flat line after

2003,.

From the preliminary data , what beleive is that mercury does not

generate autism , but rather ammplihies the numbers and severity .

Take out reduce the mercury , the numbers start to reduce and the

severe cases drop to zero..

Pierre

>

> I am an infrequent poster on this newsgroup. I am not convinced

that vaccines or thimerosal cause or contribute to autism but I am

not convinced they do not either.  My position can be viewed as fence

sitting or keeping an open mind until all the evidence is in.  On my

Facing Autism in New Blog I posted a comment titled: Has Thimerosal

Actually Been Removed From Vaccines? If Not, Of What Value Are the

Epidemiological Studies?

>

> I do not post this info looking for blog visits.  In the comment I

mentioned Dr Healy's position that the research, particularly

clinical research, to refute a thimerosal link has not been done.  I

also question the epidemiological studies claiming that autism rates

remained stable or rose after removal of thimerosal.  I do so based

on FDA statements which to me indicate that thimerosal has not been

removed from all child vaccines AND because the FDA statements

indicate that they consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal

to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed. 

>

> I know these subjects are much discussed on this newsgroup and ask

if any of you can help answer questions I have about this subject:

>

> 1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines?

If they are still included because they have some effect in

preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could

they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even

in 'trace' amounts?

>

> 2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of

thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed?  (I quoted FDA

statement to that effect on my blog comment).

>

> 3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines,

and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the

validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the

California public health authority study reported in 2008?

>

> 4).  Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been

relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections

removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at

least trace amounts?

>

> I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here

but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform

myself.  I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions

simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam

exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet

autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.

>

> If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be

appreciated.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Harold L Doherty

> Fredericton NB Canada

> Facing Autism in New Brunswick

>

[Guest guest]

Vaccines with “trace” amounts of Thimerosal are supposed to contain less than 1

microgram of mercury (Hg) per 0.5 ml dose (1 microgram [µg] of Hg per 0.5 mL is

the same as 2 µg of Hg per mL which is the same as 2000 µg/liter; micrograms per

liter is parts per billion [ppb])

0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma cells

(Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140).

2 ppb mercury = U.S. EPA limit for drinking water

(http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/index.html#mcls).

20 ppb mercury = Neurite membrane structure destroyed (Leong et al.,

Neuroreport 2001; 12: 733-37).

200 ppb mercury = level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous waste

(http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste/mercury/ regs.htm#hazwaste)

25,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in multi-dose, Hepatitis B

vaccine vials, administered at birth from 1991-2001 in the U.S.

50,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in multi-dose DTP and

Haemophilus B vaccine vials, administered 8 times in the 1990’s to children at

2, 4, 6, 12 and 18 months of age and currently “preservative” level mercury in

multi-dose flu, meningococcal and tetanus (7 and older) vaccines.

KP Stoller, MD, FACHM

President, International Hyperbaric Medical Assoc

Medical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexico

www.hbotnm.com

Please note: message attached

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[Guest guest]

I would hope no one here would attack you for asking these

questions as they are perfectly legitimate. Often the public is mislead

by media because they don't have an understand of what or why they use the

thimerosal either.

Pierre and Dr. Stoller gave great information but I thought I

might try and answer what they use it for, from how it's been explained to

me. The " Why " is a great question I think we would all like the

answers to.

In many of the trace amount vaccines, they use thimerosal as an

antibacterial agent to supposedly keep batches from being contaminated.

Then at the end of processing they essentially chelate out the thimerosal but

it's never entirely removed once used, hence the trace amounts. These

vaccines do not have thimerosal then added at the end again for preservative

purposes. Obviously this does not include the majority of flu shots and

other typical shots for older kids which do add it for preservative purposes.

Thimerosal does not have a very good effectiveness for being an antibacterial

agent so the " why " is beyond me.

-

From: EOHarm

[mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of haroldldoherty@...

Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:12 AM

To: EOHarm

Subject: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in

Vaccines? And Related Questions

I am an infrequent poster on

this newsgroup. I am not convinced that vaccines or thimerosal cause or

contribute to autism but I am not convinced they do not either. My

position can be viewed as fence sitting or keeping an open mind until all the

evidence is in. On my Facing Autism in New Blog I posted a comment

titled: Has

Thimerosal Actually Been Removed From Vaccines? If Not, Of What Value Are the

Epidemiological Studies?

I do not post this info looking for blog visits. In the comment I

mentioned Dr Healy's position that the research, particularly clinical

research, to refute a thimerosal link has not been done. I also

question the epidemiological studies claiming that autism rates remained

stable or rose after removal of thimerosal. I do so based on FDA

statements which to me indicate that thimerosal has not been removed from all

child vaccines AND because the FDA statements indicate that they consider

vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal

removed.

I know these subjects are much discussed on this newsgroup and ask if any of

you can help answer questions I have about this subject:

1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If

they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines,

or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a

neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?

2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to

be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to

that effect on my blog comment).

3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and

greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of

the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health

authority study reported in 2008?

4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been

relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all

thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?

I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that

is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I

mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you

that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to

posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by

considerable hostility.

If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Harold L Doherty

Fredericton NB Canada

Facing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

Greater question- Does anyone really know if it is only trace amounts in the shots. There is no oversight at all. I sometimes wonder if thimerasol was lessened (I never say taken out) in ALL shots.

Sorry to digress, but close your eyes for a minute- Imagine that the thimerasol levels were exactly the same as in 1999/2000- doesn't everything fit now? I don't take anything for granted.

Subject: RE: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in Vaccines? And Related QuestionsTo: EOHarm Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:37 AM

I would hope no one here would attack you for asking these questions as they are perfectly legitimate. Often the public is mislead by media because they don't have an understand of what or why they use the thimerosal either.

Pierre and Dr. Stoller gave great information but I thought I might try and answer what they use it for, from how it's been explained to me. The "Why" is a great question I think we would all like the answers to.

In many of the trace amount vaccines, they use thimerosal as an antibacterial agent to supposedly keep batches from being contaminated. Then at the end of processing they essentially chelate out the thimerosal but it's never entirely removed once used, hence the trace amounts. These vaccines do not have thimerosal then added at the end again for preservative purposes. Obviously this does not include the majority of flu shots and other typical shots for older kids which do add it for preservative purposes. Thimerosal does not have a very good effectiveness for being an antibacterial agent so the "why" is beyond me.

-

From: EOHarmyahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:EOHarm@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of haroldldoherty@ yahoo.comSent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:12 AMTo: EOHarmyahoogroups (DOT) comSubject: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in Vaccines? And Related Questions

I am an infrequent poster on this newsgroup. I am not convinced that vaccines or thimerosal cause or contribute to autism but I am not convinced they do not either. My position can be viewed as fence sitting or keeping an open mind until all the evidence is in. On my Facing Autism in New Blog I posted a comment titled: Has Thimerosal Actually Been Removed From Vaccines? If Not, Of What Value Are the Epidemiological Studies?I do not post this info looking for blog visits. In the comment I mentioned Dr Healy's position that the research, particularly clinical research, to refute a thimerosal link has not been done. I also question the epidemiological studies claiming that autism rates remained stable or rose after removal of thimerosal. I do so based on FDA statements which to me

indicate that thimerosal has not been removed from all child vaccines AND because the FDA statements indicate that they consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed. I know these subjects are much discussed on this newsgroup and ask if any of you can help answer questions I have about this subject:1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the

vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism

in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

Clarification in regards to DPT vaccine

Mercury is used a two levels at vaccine production

First level

DPT the P Pertussi bacteria must killed , this used using Heat and

mercury to kill the Pertissi ,

The Formalin approach which counsist of Heat and Formoldehyde

does not works well , vaccine has a tendency of going black after 6

months in the case of Whole cell Vaccine (ex: Penta )

In the of Acellar , its not clear , quite a bit of mis information

going around , lookin at the patents , best guess the solve the

problem arounf 2003-204

Second level

use as a preservative ( Alison presentation is very good !!)

In Canada , one vaccine to be carefull is the ACT HiB by connaught

this come into formulisation with mercury or freeze dried , it not

clear when the Freeze dried came into effect

Pierre

>

> I would hope no one here would attack you for asking these

questions as they

> are perfectly legitimate. Often the public is mislead by media

because they

> don't have an understand of what or why they use the thimerosal

either.

>

>

>

> Pierre and Dr. Stoller gave great information but I thought I might

try and

> answer what they use it for, from how it's been explained to me.

The " Why "

> is a great question I think we would all like the answers to.

>

>

>

> In many of the trace amount vaccines, they use thimerosal as an

> antibacterial agent to supposedly keep batches from being

contaminated.

> Then at the end of processing they essentially chelate out the

thimerosal

> but it's never entirely removed once used, hence the trace

amounts. These

> vaccines do not have thimerosal then added at the end again for

preservative

> purposes. Obviously this does not include the majority of flu

shots and

> other typical shots for older kids which do add it for preservative

> purposes. Thimerosal does not have a very good effectiveness for

being an

> antibacterial agent so the " why " is beyond me.

>

> -

>

>

>

> From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On

Behalf Of

> haroldldoherty@...

> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:12 AM

> To: EOHarm

> Subject: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still

Included in

> Vaccines? And Related Questions

>

>

>

>

> I am an infrequent poster on this newsgroup. I am not convinced that

> vaccines or thimerosal cause or contribute to autism but I am not

convinced

> they do not either. My position can be viewed as fence sitting or

keeping

> an open mind until all the evidence is in. On my Facing Autism in

New Blog

> I posted a comment titled: Has

> <http://autisminnb.blogspot.com/2009/01/has-thimerosal-actually-

been-removed

> .html> Thimerosal Actually Been Removed From Vaccines? If Not, Of

What

> Value Are the Epidemiological Studies?

>

> I do not post this info looking for blog visits. In the comment I

mentioned

> Dr Healy's position that the research, particularly clinical

research, to

> refute a thimerosal link has not been done. I also question the

> epidemiological studies claiming that autism rates remained stable

or rose

> after removal of thimerosal. I do so based on FDA statements which

to me

> indicate that thimerosal has not been removed from all child

vaccines AND

> because the FDA statements indicate that they consider vaccines

with trace

> amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed.

>

> I know these subjects are much discussed on this newsgroup and ask

if any of

> you can help answer questions I have about this subject:

>

> 1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines?

If they

> are still included because they have some effect in preserving

vaccines, or

> killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a

neurotoxic

> effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?

>

> 2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of

thimerosal to be

> vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to

that

> effect on my blog comment).

>

> 3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines,

and

> greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the

validity of

> the American epidemiological studies such as the California public

health

> authority study reported in 2008?

>

> 4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been

relied upon

> for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all

thimerosal

> or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?

>

> I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here

but that

> is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I

mention my

> blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you

that I am

> not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to

posters

> here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by

> considerable hostility.

>

> If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be

appreciated.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Harold L Doherty

> Fredericton NB Canada

> Facing Autism in New Brunswick

>

[Guest guest]

Those folks in Marketing earned their bread and butter by coming up

w/the word " trace. " Let's the public think, " Why, a trace amount can't

hurt anything. "

CGF

>

> Vaccines with " trace " amounts of Thimerosal are supposed to contain

less than 1 microgram of mercury (Hg) per 0.5 ml dose (1 microgram [µg]

of Hg per 0.5 mL is the same as 2 µg of Hg per mL which is the same as

2000 µg/liter; micrograms per liter is parts per billion [ppb])

> 0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma

cells (Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140)...

> KP Stoller, MD, FACHM

> President, International Hyperbaric Medical Assoc

> Medical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexico

> www.hbotnm.com

[Guest guest]

I believe that a "trace" amount is more than a "nanomolar" amount, and mercury can cause damage at even nanomolar levels (according to Dr. Boyd Haley).

Aasa

Subject: Re: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in Vaccines? And Related QuestionsTo: EOHarm Received: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:02 AM

Those folks in Marketing earned their bread and butter by coming up w/the word "trace." Let's the public think, "Why, a trace amount can't hurt anything."CGF>> Vaccines with "trace" amounts of Thimerosal are supposed to contain less than 1 microgram of mercury (Hg) per 0.5 ml dose (1 microgram [µg] of Hg per 0.5 mL is the same as 2 µg of Hg per mL which is the same as 2000 µg/liter; micrograms per liter is parts per billion [ppb])> 0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma cells (Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140)...> KP Stoller, MD, FACHM> President, International Hyperbaric Medical Assoc> Medical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexico>

www.hbotnm.com

[Guest guest]

I believe the amount of Thimerosal WAS lowered, though never completely removed as was "asked" for by Congress. (Why does Congress bother going through all the time and effort if they put NO teeth behind their actions?) Asking these folks nicely to remove their toxins, which was seen, correctly, as tantamount to admitting there was a problem, was NEVER going to achieve anything. These are the same mentalities that screamed and fussed when basic hygiene was introduced, after it was proven that Drs and nurses spread disease due to not washing hands between patients, even battlefield patients with gangrene. They refused to believe it and saw

hand-washing as an imposition. There is a very LONG history of heel-dragging and denial in the field!

However, there WERE vaccines on the shelf LONG past 2000 or 2001, whenever they like to claim the thimerosal was "out". The companies were allowed to MAKE the vaccines up until that point, and they stockpiled quite a lot, I believe. Nor was it ever clear if ALL children's vaccines were to be included or just those given up to school-entry, while boosters, such as for tetanus-diptheria, and now of course pertussis, might not strictly be "children's", as teens and adults also receive them.

I was injured by a tetanus booster in 2003, the data material sheet indicated it contained the full amount of mercury used as an anti-bacterial (although, again, it's never been very effective, just cheap.)

Mamy, many others have documented vaccines manufactured before the deadline being used in the Drs' offices as late as 2004 or perhaps later, WITH a valid expiration date. It isn't known exactly how long it took to exhaust this supply of vaccines, but it certainly was much, much later than what is claimed.

Lastly, what makes me think it was lowered is a combination of the huge panic over regular flu, pandemic flu and "bird flu", with their public scare tactics, the hard line NJ has taken re school vaccinations including police intimidation and the several new vaccines coming out as fast as the FDA can approve them (i.e., Gardasil and others)

It really seems as though "they" will stop at almost nothing in order to get that brew into people's bloodstreams, doesn't it? Just WHAT exactly has them so panicked? We know even a trace of mercury is harmful, and the harm is cumulative - the more shots, the more exposure to mercury, and for those who don't excrete it well, more accumulation of mercury in their brain and organs.

The manufacturers' data sheets will tell you the flu shot, which still contains the full amount of mercury, has not been tested for safe use during pregnancy, nor I believe as to whether it might possibly lead to any type of cancer. Yet the CDC, from their protected position, is now recommending every pregnant woman and every infant to age 18 receive a flu shot EVERY year. And this is when the flu shot is known to be a VERY ineffective shot, EVEnN in the years when they select the correct strains to vaccinate for!

Since the fetus will receive the vaccine via the mother's bloodstream, that's 19 full-strength mercury vaccines by age 18, in flu shots alone!!

It should be criminal! I can find NO sane explanation for it, except that they are EVIL and need to be STOPPED!!

beth

It seems they

1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

I didn't put my thoughts together very well concerning why the panic over getting the mercury-laden flu and other vaccines to the pregnant women and children - IF the autism numbers were to come down, the cat would be well and truly out of the bag for everyone to see, and denial would be useless at that point. So they have to reintroduce the mercury via other vaccines, especially the annual flu shot. That's how it looks to me, anyway. Please correct any errors, I may be off a bit on some details, the brain doesn't work quite the same as it did before the vaccine injury.

beth

1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

I think I'll have to find it again but I read that thimerosol is just filtered after used to make the vaccine. If that is true, who do they think they are kidding? Trying to remove mercury from cells the way it binds is almost a joke after the damage has been done. Filtering the vaccine would not be helpful in any way. Jenn L

1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

and who is testing them for how much is really in there? and the

last dose of the vial - who knows what has settled to the bottom if not

shaken before each dose

sheri

At 10:02 PM 1/5/2009, you wrote:

Those folks in Marketing earned

their bread and butter by coming up

w/the word " trace. " Let's the public think, " Why, a trace

amount can't

hurt anything. "

CGF

>

> Vaccines with " trace " amounts of Thimerosal are supposed

to contain

less than 1 microgram of mercury (Hg) per 0.5 ml dose (1 microgram [µg]

of Hg per 0.5 mL is the same as 2 µg of Hg per mL which is the same as

2000 µg/liter; micrograms per liter is parts per billion [ppb])

> 0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma

cells (Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140)...

> KP Stoller, MD, FACHM

> President, International Hyperbaric Medical Assoc

> Medical Director, Hyperbaric Medical Center of New Mexico

>

www.hbotnm.com

[Guest guest]

Beth,

It is sad but simple: mercury is now an expensive item to dispose of. It is much cheaper to give it out in vaccines. Hence, the utterly mad dash to require flu vaccines, and new OTCs that contain new names for mercury in their ingredients.

If you love your seniors, inform them. If you love your children, boost their immune systems, and download the forms to exempt your child from vaccines. Then utilize them very gradually: no newborns! All states have these parental forms, to my knowledge.

FYI, the VA is pushing these vaccines on all doctors, nurses, patients, regardless of health or reproductive status. Just say no!

A. Pineau

Chaplain, Major, USAF (ret.) Seek Spiritual Results, Lis A. Pineau"Seek peace and pursue it" ~Psalm 34:14http://bp0.blogger.com/_ci83y06mpmA/RmOGujyNp9I/AAAAAAAAAAM/jOMJq7YwuFA/s1600-h/Y+Best+Canoe+shot.JPG

To: EOHarm Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 12:05:16 AMSubject: Re: Why Are TRACE Amounts of Thimerosal Still Included in Vaccines? And Related Questions

I believe the amount of Thimerosal WAS lowered, though never completely removed as was "asked" for by Congress. (Why does Congress bother going through all the time and effort if they put NO teeth behind their actions?) Asking these folks nicely to remove their toxins, which was seen, correctly, as tantamount to admitting there was a problem, was NEVER going to achieve anything. These are the same mentalities that screamed and fussed when basic hygiene was introduced, after it was proven that Drs and nurses spread disease due to not washing hands between patients, even battlefield patients with gangrene. They refused to believe it and saw

hand-washing as an imposition. There is a very LONG history of heel-dragging and denial in the field!

However, there WERE vaccines on the shelf LONG past 2000 or 2001, whenever they like to claim the thimerosal was "out". The companies were allowed to MAKE the vaccines up until that point, and they stockpiled quite a lot, I believe. Nor was it ever clear if ALL children's vaccines were to be included or just those given up to school-entry, while boosters, such as for tetanus-diptheria, and now of course pertussis, might not strictly be "children's" , as teens and adults also receive them.

I was injured by a tetanus booster in 2003, the data material sheet indicated it contained the full amount of mercury used as an anti-bacterial (although, again, it's never been very effective, just cheap.)

Mamy, many others have documented vaccines manufactured before the deadline being used in the Drs' offices as late as 2004 or perhaps later, WITH a valid expiration date. It isn't known exactly how long it took to exhaust this supply of vaccines, but it certainly was much, much later than what is claimed.

Lastly, what makes me think it was lowered is a combination of the huge panic over regular flu, pandemic flu and "bird flu", with their public scare tactics, the hard line NJ has taken re school vaccinations including police intimidation and the several new vaccines coming out as fast as the FDA can approve them (i.e., Gardasil and others)

It really seems as though "they" will stop at almost nothing in order to get that brew into people's bloodstreams, doesn't it? Just WHAT exactly has them so panicked? We know even a trace of mercury is harmful, and the harm is cumulative - the more shots, the more exposure to mercury, and for those who don't excrete it well, more accumulation of mercury in their brain and organs.

The manufacturers' data sheets will tell you the flu shot, which still contains the full amount of mercury, has not been tested for safe use during pregnancy, nor I believe as to whether it might possibly lead to any type of cancer. Yet the CDC, from their protected position, is now recommending every pregnant woman and every infant to age 18 receive a flu shot EVERY year. And this is when the flu shot is known to be a VERY ineffective shot, EVEnN in the years when they select the correct strains to vaccinate for!

Since the fetus will receive the vaccine via the mother's bloodstream, that's 19 full-strength mercury vaccines by age 18, in flu shots alone!!

It should be criminal! I can find NO sane explanation for it, except that they are EVIL and need to be STOPPED!!

beth

It seems they

1) Why are trace amounts of thimerosal STILL included in vaccines? If they are still included because they have some effect in preserving vaccines, or killing bacteria in the vaccines, then could they not also have a neurotoxic effect on young children even in 'trace' amounts?2) Why does the FDA consider vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal to be vaccines with the thimerosal removed? (I quoted FDA statement to that effect on my blog comment).3) Does the

inclusion of trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines, and greater amounts in some of the vaccines, call into question the validity of the American epidemiological studies such as the California public health authority study reported in 2008?4). Have other countries in which epidemiological studies been relied upon for refuting vaccine or thimerosal-autism connections removed all thimerosal or did their vaccines also contain 'some or at least trace amounts?I realize these topics are probably old news for most posters here but that is why I am asking these questions here to help inform myself. I mention my blog comment where I asked these questions simply to assure you that I am not engaged in some baiting or spam exercise where I am not know to posters here and because internet autism discussions are often marked by considerable hostility.If anyone can help with informaton

your assistance would be appreciated.Respectfully,Harold L DohertyFredericton NB CanadaFacing Autism in New Brunswick

[Guest guest]

At 12:31 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:

>Beth,

>It is sad but simple: mercury is now an expensive item to dispose

>of. It is much cheaper to give it out in vaccines. Hence, the

>utterly mad dash to require flu vaccines, and new OTCs that contain

>new names for mercury in their ingredients.

>If you love your seniors, inform them. If you love your children,

>boost their immune systems, and download the forms to exempt your

>child from vaccines. Then utilize them very gradually: no

>newborns! All states have these parental forms, to my knowledge.

Every state is different - only 48 have religious exemptions (most of

those very liberal exemptions similar to philosophical exemptions.

Around 20 states have philosophical exemptions

2 states do not have the above - WV and MS - tragic in those states

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

Vaccines - http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm Vaccine Dangers &

Childhood Disease & Homeopathy Email classes start in January 2009