Diagnosis

[Guest guest]

Usarian wrote:

> >there is one here on the list who will discuss the relationship

> >between giftedness and AS. he will let himself know to you in time.

> >it is very highly likely to be inherited and there is a high

> >likelihood that AS can be linked to giftedness.

said that. As I mentioned before, likely he was referring

to my idea that characteristics of Asperger's (AS) and " giftedness " are

quite similar. The biggest *practical* difference might be that AS is

pathologized and " gifted " is not.

>

> Uh.. I actually just mentioned my kid, but I'm not this person.. I

> would love to hear from them tho

> There is very little material available on Gifted Aspergers. My boy was

> dignosed each condition seperately. (I had been unaware before this

> that giftedness was a diagnosed condition!)

It isn't really, since standards for giftedness vary *all* over the map.

Anyway, diagnosis as such is applied more to pathologies.

" Evaluation " or " evaluated as " better describes what's done for gifted

people.

You might be interested in Silverman's (main?) website:

<http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/>

....and what may be an offshoot:

<http://www.visualspatial.org/>

about a cognitive style rather common among both " gifted " and AS; less

common in NTs.

This is the " link " that referred to; and it's not supported (yet)

by any formal investigations I know about.

> They thought he would not result in giftedness because he has AS, but he

Many AS are " gifted " , but it's not so apparent on the commonly-used IQ

tests. Varieties of Raven's " Progressive Matrices " show it though.

That's been published, even, fairly recently.

> did. So I got looking up both on the internet and only found a couple

> articles talking about G/AS as distinct, but I'll tell you what, it

> nailed who my kid is better than anything else I've read!

- Bill, 76, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

It was great to read your response to Jim.

My husband of 18 years was confirmed AS by a psychologist last week.

Whilst this is not surprising to either my husband or myself there is

relief but also extreme difficulties.

My husband is having a tough time coming to terms with all the AS

things that happened in his life which now, although make sense,

cannot be changed. (This includes my inability to give him the space

he needed because I always thought it was a personal thing not

realising it was his condition.) Anyway the impact is that he goes

out all night to get his " space " and this is having serious impact on

our relationship. I have tried (a) to stop him going; ( where are

you going? and © various other forms eg tears, etc. but none of

this has worked. He continues to go out because he says it is the

lesser of two evils for him to be away from me at the moment so that

he does not hurt me (not physically because that has never been an

issue) but emotionally.

Although I " know " with my head that this makes sense it basically

still feels like total rejection to me.

Now that we have had the diagnosis confirmed I am starting to ease up

by not asking any questions about where he has been or who he has

been with. I no longer call him on his mobile. But this is so hard

and I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. He says he

knows once he has put it all into perspective and come to terms with

it things will be much better.

I am pleased to say that when he is home and in his study I totally

leave him alone - this has been my newfound understanding and am

hoping it will make a difference but to date it has not.

Do you have any idea how to help " come to terms " with AS or is it a

process that one just has to go through? I feel like booking in a

psychiatrist or doing something because my " patience " is really

wearing me out.

Do you have any comments? I have two young sons and am 7 months

pregnant. I desperately want our marriage to work - I love him with

all my heart and I know he does me - but I am at a point where I no

longer know what to do.

I would really appreciate your advice and the reason I am asking you

is because it is impressive that you say

" Judy B, Scotland, NT living 11 years with an AS - still working on

it day in and day out, but reaping the rewards " . Well done to you

and your AS - it is great to know that it can work.

Best wishes

From: jim_7000 <jim7000rocketmail (DOT) com>

Subject: [aspires-relationsh ips] diagnosis

To: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Wednesday, 10 September, 2008, 7:10 AM

I got to the breaking point in our marriage just as I discovered that

my wife likely has Asperger's. I figure that it's best for me to

understand the condition to cope better, to help our kids and to help

her. I want to tell my wife to see a psychiatrist for a diagnosis,

but

I'm not sure how to approach that and would appreciate suggestions.

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

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[Guest guest]

Hello Jim,

I’m not any sort of a professional in the area of

diagnosis; so I would always bow the opinion of the best experts.

Undoubtedly our good friend Bill represents our point of reference on this List

to the way one should approach the diagnostic criteria.

So my comments come simply for what they are worth, out of the

speculations of a 72 year old Aspie. Clearly it is not likely

that any spouse can make an authentic ‘Diagnosis’ of AS

concerning the other Spouse. The most sophisticated and learned of

persons can be just too too familiar with their partner and fall into traps of

bias and reaction. So it is a mistake to

call the conclusions of a spouse with the official term Diagnosis.

Having offered that proviso, let me go on to state a few things about

the matter. Many of us have made pretty shrewd and most likely

accurate definitions about our Partners, as we observe them over many years.

And yet, I would suggest that it might be a bit easier for us AS folk to determine

a pretty accurate opinion when our partners (or anyone else) are NOT to be

considered as Aspergers rather than to say with certainty that they ARE.

I hope this doesn’t sound a bit too convoluted. But I really feel

that we Aspies would have a really good chance of being right when we come to

the conclusion about other folk that they are not potentially to be diagnosed

as Aspies. I might be barking up the wrong tree, and I’d

be interested to hear just what Bill might say about this.

I can imagine that a perceptive Aspie could well make a good associate

to be alongside the diagnosing professional, to assist him in more rapidly

eliminating the definitely non-AS client from the reckoning. Thus

there may would be a pool remaining of those who both would be uncertain about,

- and who would definitely require the official criteria of current learning to

be applied. In my egotistical imagination, I feel little

doubt that I can state with a high degree of certainty about which of the

people I associate with just HAVE to be NTs with no doubt. Others I

may well be very uncertain about. The actual AS ones will

vary considerably in the detectability of the Aspergers traits, AND as well in

the legitimacy of their applicable definition in the individual

cases.

Looking back on the evolution of my own understanding about AS,

I can see big big changes over the 17 years or so that I have known about

it. In the early times, I was typically hooked like any

enthusiastic newly ‘born’ Aspie into tabulating ‘symptoms’

in a simplistic way. And it was only as I looked more and

more into it and observed and learned about the near infinite and surprising variety

of ways in which the Aspergers brain wiring actually manifests in the

individual, that I found I had to rethink my old ideas.

Speaking as an old Public Platform presenter, I look for

analogies that I can quote in order to describe what I have determined.

It might be considered a little bit like the proverbial differences between men

and women. You just cant say that all women are weak muscled, fleshy

build, broad hipped, weak feminine natured or gentle voiced. Nor

can you say that all men are muscular, tall, lean, deep voice and

macho. These characteristics, (continued on through to superficial

2ndary characteristics like long hair or habits of subservience etc) are simply

not the essence of the particular genetic sex basis or orientation.

The real differences lie in those fundamental sex genes; while

the other various distinctions are dictated by other factors including for

sure, extra genetic factors and environmental influences.

Many of the male female characteristics that we see in people may well be the

result of the habitual reactions and responses of the person to the world about

them.

Just so, my contention is that there are deep within the brain

structure of the Aspie, certain causal factors like that much vaunted tricky ‘brain

wiring’, as well as other things perhaps that we have not as yet

determined. And these are the real essence of the AS

identification. That brain wiring brings about a whole series of ways of

perceiving the world and people as well as oneself, that represent the real

common denominator in most Aspie folk. And these ‘ways’

if they can only be detected and tabulated would have to be seen eventually as the

real diagnostic tool. The outer manifestations, or rather the

obvious responses and reactions to the world outside, dependent on the

genetic inheritance, family influences and relationships, education and etc are

the things that we actually observe in the person and bring us to the

conclusions that we have. They represent and indicate the responses

and reactions to the things in our lives; and may be defense mechanisms and

learned methods of safe or efficient handling of the world of people.

Clearly as has been pointed out many times, there are very

few AS characteristics that one will not find among the general population at

large. So one needs much more in order to diagnose AS in a valid

fashion than just a list of those outer ways and means. This is why

I’ve felt for some long time that the professional diagnosis demands most

importantly that the ‘expert’ examine in detail a whole series of

the inner attitudes and perceptions of the client. When these have

been properly tabulated, assuming that they can and will be properly located

and identified, then the diagnosis will have a much greater chance of being

made legitimately.

As I see it, just to look at those superficial, (however

important) outer habits and characteristics of the person that we term as ‘Aspie’,

is insufficient and must lead to many mistaken and perhaps unfortunate

conclusions. What we Aspies share almost universally,

is a set of mental and ‘psychic’ perceptions AND SIGNIFICANT GAPS,

perhaps that make us uniquely what we are. But in those outer

things, we vary enormously, and can lead others to wrong conclusions.

I humbly await correction on any of this.

Cheers, Ron.

Subject:

diagnosis

Can a spouse reasonably make a diagnosis of AS

concerning the other spouse, until getting a " real " diagnosis from a

psychologist?

What are the primary traits that define the AS

diagnosis?

Jim