Allergist says no

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2010 10:36:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kmtown2003@... writes:

Who's to say they didn't have liver problems before with out knowing it?

Or the other thing that Doug Haney always mentioned cirosis of the liver is

mold. Maybe they are confused with die off in the liver?? I know I

spelled that and spell check dosn't do medical

Right. Aspergillus is known to be very hard on the liver.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Jeanine,

I can't say what will help others. I only know what helped me. When I

was having bad brain fog, I could take a hit of the Nizoral and within 15

minutes tell a major difference. I know there was a paper that was posted on

this board a year or so back about olfactory and breaching the blood-brain

barrier, that made a lot of sense to me.

Sharon

In a message dated 1/14/2010 10:42:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

Sharon, music to my ears. you think this would be safe enough to use like

that. maybe not daily but like with me, I have times when my sinues aren't

aggervating the heck out of me if I wash them everytime I get the

inclination of irritation but sometimes it's just not enough and while I

wouldn't

want to be on antifungals the rest of my life I think I'm probably going to

have problems with breathing and aggervation to my sinuses the rest of my

life and while some of that may be bacterial now, I also know most of it is

fungal. not from my body but from the air and/or not just from my body. I

dont know if it's ever going to heal to a point of not dealing with it. I hope

so, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen if I dont get some form

of antifungal meds.

I am seeing how the benifits of a nasal route might be easier on the body

than oral.

thing is if some of us are now fungal infection prone this may be

something we well be dealing with long term with mold being everywhere in some

cases not so small dosages.

really this has been my point. just getting rid of fungal infection in the

body doesn't mean we wont deal with the issue again.

we may need a proactive,less harmful to the liver solution.

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

see, this is what gets to me, why didn't I here all this before I went to

Shoemaker. no offence but that trip was hard on me and caused major set backs in

my health. just driveing from the airport to pokeamo or whatever was a killer,

every five minutes there was this horrible smell invadeing the car from what

smelled like pig lots + something so rotten it wasn't even funny. and late

effects was hitting about the time we left to come home the next day. you

wouldn't believe this smell coming from my feet. my fingers and feet were

slaughing skin and red and sore for a good month or so after that. not to

mention I spent a week just laying in bed.

you know, I wore work boots a good chuck of my life and never ever had foot

fungus. it really pisses my off to know that anti-fungals could have really

helped me cause I do reconize that I suffer from what I see is infections beyond

the inflammation and they are 2 seperate things.

I think you can have inflammation without infection but maybe not infection

without inflammation. I think that when I have sweating around my neck and

upperback it's obviously from something going on in my body in those areas,and

it's a sign of infection.

seem antifungals would have to be about as mutifactural as a mold spore itself.

sorry but in my medical history I had to write for Shoemaker I put in there that

I had what I'm possative was CSF coming out of my nose and ears and running down

my throat, and I didn't think must of him acting like that wasn't possable. and

damn it was right in my records that I had intolerance to corn products also

ignored. and I hope he's not still thinking that if you dont tolerate CMS you

have to have lyme because there obviously can be other factors involved.

I really dont think sorbital is a good thing to be prescribing to mold patients.

this just isn't only about mycotoxins.

I was so pissed yesterday, I read something I wont even post, conserning body

temp. and fungi. what a bunch of bs.

obviously fungi have evolved to be smarter than most doctors out there. grrr

>

> I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last question:

Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

Did Dr M treat fungal infection via his nasal spray? I went all the way out

there to see him and came home with the nasal spray and didn't get

that...thought it was treating my sinuses and I had no sinus symptoms, so

perhaps I didn't understand his treatment and should have asked more questions.

I never used the nasal spray. Kept it in my refrigerator in case I got sinus

symptoms.

>

> From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

> Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

>

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 6:02 PM

>

>

> I was on antifungals for a little over two years. Dr. Marinkovich put me

on

>

> them. I could tell a dramatic difference with them. I tried to go off a

>

> couple of times, but would go right back down again within 10 days. (brain

>

> fog, numbness, blurred vision, cough, bloating, etc)

>

[Guest guest]

Patilla, thats true, thats why I couldn't get any prescribed from a doctor that

obviously knew enough to know I suffered liver damage, but if you need them you

need them, if you have to monitored ,be monitored. if your not going to get

better without them, you need them. to evils, but obviously we could end up

with cancer anyway and some have.

>

> Perhaps there are other physiological reasons for not prescribing

> antifungals. I had liver damage from the mold, in which case

> antifungals might have compromised my liver even more. Antifungals are

> harsh drugs that are not prescribed so easily anymore. Some are even

> carcinogenic.

>

> Barth

>

> www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

>

> SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

>

>

[Guest guest]

I happen to think you are right Carl. There are many times low grade infection

that don't cause fever and are below threshold for tests but if one's immune

system is suppressed, you will never over come them and they are a constant drag

on you, and creat mycotoxins inside you. I think if Dr M rxed antifungals, he

thought so too. I've read in many places even chronic loss of sleep can cause

someone to have multiple low grade, (below level test would result in positive),

that patient can not overcome and become chronic, and constantly drag on their

energy and their immune system, so I don't think you need to eat crow. Read Dr

Tiedlebaum writings on CFS for one.

>

> I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last question:

Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Carl, don't eat crow. Which antifungal?

Broad spectrum antifungals or antibiotics referring to Dr Tiedlebaum's protocol

and he will switch depending on results. Dr M usually used Nizoral. Maybe

switched to something else later..?

If you bring down the patholgic 'load', the body can sometimes have light enough

load to take care of the rest itself. Stand your ground Carl...I think you're

right.

This is same technique as used by doctors when a patient has the FLU. The flu

is a virus and we don't have an rx for that, or at least we didn't used to, so

they would give a broad spectrum antibiotic, knowing it would not kill the flu,

but would bring down the body burden of pathogens, so body has alot less

pathogens and the immune system can use all or more of it's resources on the

virus.

>

> I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last question:

Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

be careful there Barb, it might have changed somehow,gotten old or something.

but even if you dont have sinus problems or noticable sinus problems it well

still make it to the lungs from the sinuses, and stomach,gi. and brain.

> >

> > Sharon are you doing the nizoral recipe from Dr M still?

> >

[Guest guest]

Carl, my understanding of CSM is that it binds with the toxin produced by the

biological agent, thus cutting the chronic nuero-toxin syndrome, think you need

to re-read Mold Warriors, also Dr Marchinoffs paper on hypersensitivity. We are

dealing here with the 2 main theories of curing our condition. Also the 2 main

theories of why hypersensitivity occurs.

>

> ,

>

> I hope my previous response wasn't too abrupt or rude. I was

> waiting for my flight and they started boarding as I was writing.

> So, to be a little more clear:

>

> The original context, which I didn't make clear, was why didn't a

> doctor prescribe an anti-fungal for a mold exposure, and which

> one would be best.

>

> First, that is a medical questions about prescriptions and none of

> us are qualified to prescribe.

>

> Second, the reason would be that anti-fungals, especially the

> ones ingested rather than applied on the skin, are for internal

> mold growth which is almost always not mold growth but yeast

> (Candida). Candida is inside everybody and is part of the natural

> floral of the digestive system. It, bacteria, enzymes and other

> components are normally in some sort of symbiotic balance. If

> the bacteria overgrow and dominate then we have a bacterial

> infection of the gut. If the Candida overgrows and dominates then

> we have a yeast (fungal) infection of the gut. (Thrush and genital

> infections are also Candida).

>

> Internal anti-fungal prescriptions are for the Candida and other

> internal infections (overgrowth). They are not intended for

> treatment of our reactions to mold outside of our body which is

> inhaled, ingested, or contacted on skin (dermal). Because it is a

> prescription a doctor must first follow the regulations for

> prescriptions.

>

> Other kinds of treatments, including some drugs, are appropriate

> for exposure to molds originating outside our body.

>

> The fact that you felt better with Lamisil could be explained any

> number of ways. You had a low grade infection which you weren't

> aware of. It was an organism not detected in a test. There was

> secondary effects (side effects) which were positive rather than

> negative. It affected another part of the body which allowed the

> body to better perform overall, resulting in feeling better.

>

> For example, vitamin C is a huge benefit to me immediately after

> some mold exposures. But vitamin C has nothing to do with

> treating, controlling, killing, or otherwise affecting mold. Even

> Cholestyramine does not directly impact the mold, yeast, or

> fungus. It removes byproducts of the immune system generated

> when the body responds to the mold exposure.

>

> So, Tug asked why the doctor didn't prescribe an anti-fungal for

> his mold exposure. My response is why would he? Anti-fungals

> are for a very different purpose. But that doesn't mean some of

> us, especially yourself, don't benefit for any number of other

> reasons, including a possible undetected mold " infection. "

>

> Finally, I put " infection " in quotes because there are all different

> kinds of " infections. " Some are overgrowth like with Candida,

> overgrowth like thrush in the mouth, and others are fungal ball

> infections, some of which can kill. Quickly. Most of what we

> experience are not the deadly types of infections or overgrowth.

> We experience mostly the ones which make us suffer so

> miserably it feels like we're dying.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

yes, Carl dont be eating no crow.yuk. we all live and learn, thats what were are

here for, Barbs right. there obviously are those that survive WDB exposures

without getting to the point of possably needing antifugals and some that do.

>

> Carl, don't eat crow. Which antifungal?

> Broad spectrum antifungals or antibiotics referring to Dr Tiedlebaum's

protocol and he will switch depending on results. Dr M usually used Nizoral.

Maybe switched to something else later..?

> If you bring down the patholgic 'load', the body can sometimes have light

enough load to take care of the rest itself. Stand your ground Carl...I think

you're right.

> This is same technique as used by doctors when a patient has the FLU. The flu

is a virus and we don't have an rx for that, or at least we didn't used to, so

they would give a broad spectrum antibiotic, knowing it would not kill the flu,

but would bring down the body burden of pathogens, so body has alot less

pathogens and the immune system can use all or more of it's resources on the

virus.

>

[Guest guest]

we went to see dr. M several years ago and he gave us the nizoral nasal

spray and said it would kill the mold in sinuses and throat and that his

gut was colonized w/mold but that that would gradually decline as the

quantity of mold being breathed in and swallowed was reduced with the

nizoral nasal spray, he used it for a few weeks and it didn't help and

we stopped it, perhaps too soon given where we are today. sue

>Did Dr M treat fungal infection via his nasal spray? I went all the way

>out there to see him and came home with the nasal spray and didn't get

>that...thought it was treating my sinuses and I had no sinus symptoms,

>so perhaps I didn't understand his treatment and should have asked more

>questions. I never used the nasal spray. Kept it in my refrigerator in

>case I got sinus symptoms.

>

[Guest guest]

That's what I see now, that perhaps he was starting with the sinuses, more

conservative approach and may result in less die off problems and no liver

issues, but never thought that treating sinuses could have a whole body effect

and figured I just didn't describe my problem adequately. Yes, it probably

isn't any good any more. I just wished I had asked about it at this forum.

> >

> > Did Dr M treat fungal infection via his nasal spray? I went all the way out

there to see him and came home with the nasal spray and didn't get

that...thought it was treating my sinuses and I had no sinus symptoms, so

perhaps I didn't understand his treatment and should have asked more questions.

I never used the nasal spray. Kept it in my refrigerator in case I got sinus

symptoms.

[Guest guest]

I tried Sporanox and Diflucan and had no improvement at all. When I was given

Lamisil, I assumed it wouldn't work either because the other two antifungals had

not worked. I was glad I was wrong. Lamisil made a big difference. I shared

information about my experience with Lamisil with a leading scientist, and he is

looking into it.

________________________________

From: Carl Grimes <grimes@...>

Sent: Wed, January 13, 2010 9:24:10 PM

Subject: Re: Re: [] Allergist says no

I guess I'm due for a giant helping of " crow! " But I have one last question:

Which anti-fungals are being prescribed?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

In Dr marinkovichs paper, all those years of treating patients with

anti-fungals.  he didn't see liver problems.   I also think when people have

trouble with anti-fungals, they weren't educated on the die-off side

effects.   I share with everyone I help that part of the process is you will

feel worse before you get better.   Die off is a bitch but it gets better

From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:20 AM

No crow eating required. Don't ask me to explain why, but some people who

have the same basic symptoms as others after an atypical exposure to mold

and company, report that they do not respond well to anti-fungals.

Personally, I am pretty sure that my current quality of life today would

not be anywhere near the same without them.

Sharon K.

[Guest guest]

I have a medical grade oxygen concentrator and a medical grade ozonater that I

use together to give myself treatments. I have Chronic Lyme but Ihave had mold

problems since I was a child. It is common for Lyme and fungus to co-habitate

together. After decades of being sick and not knowing that it was the Lyme that

caused many of these problems my immune system wore out and many pathogens have

and do live in me. I have done many treatments for the various ones but when I

discovered that Ozone is not particular and kills many pathogens especially

fungus even though I may not know what they are I started treatments in my home

doing the ozone through the ears to clear my sinus, allergies, head, ears etc.

Then I drank 2 qts. of ozonated water to help my gut, esophagus etc. THen I do

ozonated colonics once a week to remove the toxins that build up from the

treatments that I do to kill the Lyme and fungus. As a woman I am fortunate that

I can do vaginal insuflations as well and treat the Lymphatic system as well as

the female organs etc. The next best thing would be doing ozonate saunas but I

do not have money for that yet. I can use the ozone for skin problems with

ozonated olive oil or bagging the limb that is affected. I ozonate my discs and

get great relief and healing. Lyme has invaded my body and I have problems

everywhere. Therefore to have something that kills pathogens, gives my body much

needed oxygen and brings healing and relief and is so versatile is a huge

benefit and a great blessing. Just thought I would share that with you all.

The rest of course is managing my mold exposure in my home.

Recently also i have discovered that the use of Glutathione via a nebulizer is

also helping a lot.

I have always struggled with Candida. BUt I was not aware that there are many

other types of fungus in our bodies that are not picked up with tests as well.

Thanks for all the sharing. This is a very active group and nice to see people

taking the time to help others.

cathy

[Guest guest]

Sporanox, diflucan, lamisil: they all treat different types of fungus and in the

case of diflucan. Your response is probably more likely because they particular

mix of fungal load was more responsive to the Lamisil than to sporanox and if

yeast wasn't the main culprit, diflucan wouldn't have helped. There are so many

different fungus and yeast and they are sensitive to many different

antifungal/antiyeast medicines. Someone else might have the same experience but

from taking sporanox. I am with Carl, it was most likely a killing of fungus

that resulted in you feeling better.

You can have many infections that are below the level test would come back

positive but if your immune system is too weak to fight them due to perhaps

mycotoxins, for one thing, it will continue to make you feel ill, without fever

or obvious signs. If you have time, read Dr Tiedlebaum's from Fatiqued to

Fantastic. He was doctor practicing in MD but now mainly writes books, trains

doctors in treating CFS and puts out a line of products, but said he came upon

his theory from suffering from CFS himself, he believes from pushing himself too

hard going through medical school, lack of sleep, long hours, etc. Very

interesting. He treats with natural antifungals and antibacterials and if that

doesn't work uses prescription antifungals and antibiotics and probiotics and

many other recommendations. I wonder why so many good doctors come out of MD?

>

> I tried Sporanox and Diflucan and had no improvement at all. When I was given

Lamisil, I assumed it wouldn't work either because the other two antifungals had

not worked. I was glad I was wrong. Lamisil made a big difference. I shared

information about my experience with Lamisil with a leading scientist, and he is

looking into it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

we might all get somewhat basicly the same symptoms but the severity of organ

damage might play a role in some symptoms being more reconized than others. like

the difference in haveing brain fog and having seizure type symptoms, or stomach

and bowel problems or sinus problems that are bad enough to be a major issue.

dose and whats in that moldy environment matters.

time may not be as much of a factor as long as the dose and the toxins are at a

level your body can manage so some might recover fairly well by just getting

away from exposure, but with higher doses,

what your exposed to and time exposed could make a hudge difference in organ

damage and immune disfunctions ect. theres info. out there that high doses to

some molds can cause one to become allergic.

I never had what I can concieve as a allergy problem until after my second

exposure, I never had chemical sensitivity until after my second exposure. I did

have symptoms in my first home that are pretty much text book to whats known

about certain mycotoxin effects.

so I know just how different exposures can be.

really if one just looks at mycotoxins and nothing else the info. out there on

effects is pretty accurate but with a few symptoms missing. I kind of have a

problem with people thinking every chemical sensitivity reaction is a mycotoxin.

basically just from my own experience I'm not to sure that mycotoxins even play

a role in causing a chemical sensitivity responce, but I know voc's and other

chemicals/toxins do. without analizing every mycotoxin who knows. but I'm pretty

possative that there are some mycotoxins that dont cause a chemical sensitivity

responce but well be quite sneaky about getting in the body and waalaa, the

symptoms they are known to be caused by mycotoxins come back, some taking a few

months to get over. just my view, I'm sure I'll be eating crow with Carl in a

bit.

[Guest guest]

And where are we getting it??  Inquireing minds want to know. the Pharmacy on

the recipe said its not making it

From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:25 AM

Not currently using the Nizoral, but am anticipating wanting some in the

near future. I am hopefully soon to start back to work as a real estate

agent, which means I am going to be in and out of a lot of houses.

When I was using the Nizoral before, I found it worked well as a

preventative measure to coat my sinuses with the antifungal before I went in

places

that were potentially not pristine.

Think I will be doing that again, particularly on Broker Caravan days where

one is in and out of many houses in the same day.

[Guest guest]

K. thats the heximyer thing right? I wonder if this might be somewhat what some

might expierence just by getting out of their moldy environment with some level

of the body tring to rid itself of toxins and fungi. would this be viewed by

some as unmasking ?

>

> In Dr marinkovichs paper, all those years of treating patients with

anti-fungals.  he didn't see liver problems.   I also think when people have

trouble with anti-fungals, they weren't educated on the die-off side

effects.   I share with everyone I help that part of the process is you will

feel worse before you get better.   Die off is a bitch but it gets better

>

>

[Guest guest]

what good is binding the toxins if your somehow colonized somewhere and it

produceing more toxins in the body? that treating the symptoms and not treating

the cause. that works for some who maybe dont need antifugals and leaving out

the ones that might.

>

> Carl, my understanding of CSM is that it binds with the toxin produced by the

biological agent, thus cutting the chronic nuero-toxin syndrome, think you need

to re-read Mold Warriors, also Dr Marchinoffs paper on hypersensitivity. We are

dealing here with the 2 main theories of curing our condition. Also the 2 main

theories of why hypersensitivity occurs.

>

>

[Guest guest]

well a expert on this board once posted that mycotoxins may not show up in urine

after a few months of being away from exposure unless your sell getting exposed.

gee, we all avoid mold like the plaque.

how long have you been on CSM and hows that working for you ?

sure getting and keep the toxic body load down helps but it doesn't cure. no

body seems to take in account that organ damage can be severe and depending

where it can be hard to heal and even if it heals it doesnt really mean it well

heal back to normal and not continue to be a major obsticle to getting well.

top that off with pausable immune disfunction that might be permenant.

chemical sensitivity and what causes it to happen because of toxin exposure may

very well be based on immune programing,neuron programing and organ damage

together. like demyelination of protective matter surrounding our nerves where

tramission and reseption comes into play. if your not brains not getting signals

or sending signals your whole body suffers. this damage can be bad enough that

it might become unhealable. take other organs too, who says that the tissue

damage itself might not cause a reaction of sorts.

CSM removes toxins from your body and lowers your cholesterol.

while this may be enough to allow some to heal it might not be enough for

others.

>

> Carl, my understanding of CSM is that it binds with the toxin produced by the

biological agent, thus cutting the chronic nuero-toxin syndrome, think you need

to re-read Mold Warriors, also Dr Marchinoffs paper on hypersensitivity. We are

dealing here with the 2 main theories of curing our condition. Also the 2 main

theories of why hypersensitivity occurs.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon, music to my ears. you think this would be safe enough to use like that.

maybe not daily but like with me, I have times when my sinues aren't aggervating

the heck out of me if I wash them everytime I get the inclination of irritation

but sometimes it's just not enough and while I wouldn't want to be on

antifungals the rest of my life I think I'm probably going to have problems with

breathing and aggervation to my sinuses the rest of my life and while some of

that may be bacterial now, I also know most of it is fungal. not from my body

but from the air and/or not just from my body. I dont know if it's ever going to

heal to a point of not dealing with it. I hope so, but I'm pretty sure it's not

going to happen if I dont get some form of antifungal meds.

I am seeing how the benifits of a nasal route might be easier on the body than

oral.

thing is if some of us are now fungal infection prone this may be something we

well be dealing with long term with mold being everywhere in some cases not so

small dosages.

really this has been my point. just getting rid of fungal infection in the body

doesn't mean we wont deal with the issue again.

we may need a proactive,less harmful to the liver solution.

>

> From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

> Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

>

> Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:25 AM

>

> Not currently using the Nizoral, but am anticipating wanting some in the

>

> near future. I am hopefully soon to start back to work as a real estate

>

> agent, which means I am going to be in and out of a lot of houses.

>

>

>

> When I was using the Nizoral before, I found it worked well as a

>

> preventative measure to coat my sinuses with the antifungal before I went in

places

>

> that were potentially not pristine.

>

>

>

> Think I will be doing that again, particularly on Broker Caravan days where

>

> one is in and out of many houses in the same day.

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon I understand this.

Today, Dr. Shoemaker has nailed it. The toxins and other contaminants

> cause chronic inflammation that impact the immune system.

allergies, exspecially to molds also impact the immune system.

irritants and organ damage also affect the immune system.

Why doesn't Dr. shoemaker prescribe anti-fungals also?

>

> ,

>

> You are 100% on the mark with this post. Dr. S. has always approached the

> matter from more of a poisoning standpoint caused by toxins. Dr. M.

> approached it from an immunological aspect caused by an antigen.

>

> I went to DC with both of these men in 2006 when we held a Senate Staff

> Briefing sponsored by Senator Kennedy and Senator Jeffords. Dr.

> Sherris, ENT, was also on our panel, who discussed chronic fungal sinusitus.

Chin

> Yang was the last panel member who discussed the microbiology of what one

> finds in water damaged buildings.

>

> We all met at the B & B where I was staying. It was pretty obvious that

> each had their own opinions when they walked in the door and were somewhat

> leary of the others'. The conversations were way over my unscientific head.

> But, it obvious to me by the time they walked out the door to go to the

> Briefing, each man recognized a cross over from what they were saying and the

> others were saying.

>

> It is such a loss that Dr. Marinkovich died when he did. He was beginning

> to add the toxic symptoms into his understanding of immunology.

>

> > I feel certain that the two men together could have caused the sciences of

> immunological from and antigen and poisoning from a toxin to meld together

> to give a very comprehensive view of the problem, and a more comprehensive

> manner of how to treat these illnesses under individual circumstance.

>

>

> In a message dated 1/14/2010 9:06:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> kdeanstudios@... writes:

>

> Carl, my understanding of CSM is that it binds with the toxin produced by

> the biological agent, thus cutting the chronic nuero-toxin syndrome, think

> you need to re-read Mold Warriors, also Dr Marchinoffs paper on

> hypersensitivity. We are dealing here with the 2 main theories of curing our

condition.

> Also the 2 main theories of why hypersensitivity occurs.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Who's to say they didn't have liver problems before with out knowing it?  Or

the other thing that Doug Haney always mentioned cirosis of the liver is mold.

Maybe they are confused with die off in the liver??   I know I spelled that and

spell check dosn't do medical

From: snk1955@... <snk1955@...>

Subject: Re: [] Allergist says no

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:52 AM

Yes, a. I think you are exactly right. I think this whole boogie

man that anti-fungals cause severe liver problems on a regular basis, is

just to scare the doctors away from prescribing them...as in if one gets

better when using anti-fungals it helps to prove exposure to fungals caused

illness. Dr. Marinkovich thought so, too.

My daughter has CF. She is on antifungals forever and has been for about

7 years now. Her liver is fine. My liver was never impacted either by

them.

I think it is more the exception than the norm that people have liver

problems from anti-fungals.

In a message dated 1/14/2010 8:42:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kmtown2003 (DOT) com writes:

In Dr marinkovichs paper, all those years of treating patients with

anti-fungals. he didn't see liver problems. I also think when people have

trouble with anti-fungals, they weren't educated on the die-off side effects.

I share with everyone I help that part of the process is you will feel

worse before you get better. Die off is a bitch but it gets better

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

in a high dose exposure in a WDB when the amount of toxins overload the immune

system and the liver cant keep up the rate of detox needed not only does liver

disfunction accure but severe damage to the mucosa linings and possably

somewhere in the midsts of it all some type of infection might just cause

meningitis and brain swelling doing more damage to the

brain,ears,sinuses,throat,stomach,gi,bowels,kidney,liver ect.

the differences in what one may experience than another and disfunction vs.

permenant damage might vary like everything else.

>

> Who's to say they didn't have liver problems before with out knowing it?  Or

the other thing that Doug Haney always mentioned cirosis of the liver is mold.

Maybe they are confused with die off in the liver??   I know I spelled that and

spell check dosn't do medical

>